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SD westriver lockout- OVER??

I post an answer to all 3 that replied back

1st up LB

I agree that having the game warden trample across the pasture is not ideal. Back east he pulled in the approach when he talked to us. And like I said if he had drove across the field in the middle of our hunt I would have been furious too. I do beleive they should have more game checks and such. I think that would be better then driving across pastures for compliance checks. I know you have had some real hard headed GF&P officers out there and I have 1st hand knowledge of that. But I strongly feel that if they change that law for out west that it should be change for us in the east as well.

On the game warden issue, I am spoiled by ours. I do get to have coffee with the guy every saturday and sunday morning. He is one of the guys, don't get me wrong he will write tickets out when need be. But he lives and is part of our community. His kids play ball at high school. He does take the time to talk with us. And I understand that your gripe is truly with the GF&P and not with us.

I do understand that the wildlife does take resources away from you. But I suffer the same thing under worse conditions. It is illegal to shoot deer in the road ditch, but it is legal to shoot a pheasant. I raise 750 pheasant chicks annually and turn loose on MY land. Even though they are my pheasants, if they happen to cross the fence, it is legal for the public to shoot them. I don't have a problem with it. I think everyone has the right to be able to shoot a pheasant in their lifetime. And I can gurantee that I have more money tied up in those pheasants then you do any of your deer or antelope. I don't do guided hunts, I make no money from letting people hunt. I do this for my family and friends that come.

But one of the proposals, and maybe not by your group, does deal direclty with hunters and deer season. This new proposal has to do with sponsorship for hunters where a landowner would sponsor a hunter and he would be eligable for a special set of tags.

I don't beleive this to be right. I think it would be ok if you had a brother or uncle or something that wanted to come back and shoot a deer on you land. I think family should be able to buy a tag and shoot a deer on a family members land. But what I see happening is the landowner sponsoring the people with $$$. Meaning that I must pay the landowner $$$ for his sponsor ship. This will only open up the door to bigger outfitters. The tradtional deer hunt will end. Have you watched KELO news lately espically before the opening of pheasant season. It made me sick when all they could talk about is how much money out-of-state hunters bring in. Absolutley sick to my stomach. Too often this state forgets about the local residents that live here 365 and pay taxes and make this whole thing possible. With that proposal, I see deer hunting heading down the same road as the big pheasant outfitters. You won't be able to shoot one unless you have $$$$.

LB, I know your gripe is with the GF&P but you are hurting the hunters as well. My landowner did lock out his land. I use to go out and help him all the time, even for 2 years after we couldn't hunt, but for the last 4 I haven't. And I miss that. I have come to the conculsion that why should I make the trip twice a year on $3 gas to help him out and get nothing back in return. I know what started this whole fight between the landowners and GF&P, and I just wish that everyone could sit aside some differerences and come up with an answer that would make everyone happy so this would end. Like you said, GF&P officals are not elected. I understand that you are trying to change people's mind with this lockout. But by keeping me off the property and changing my mind, how does this accomplish the goal. I can't do anything more than you can. I can't vote my GF&P officer out either.

JingleBob

Most of what I said above can pertain to you too.

I don't think you can compare corn to grass. Grass does grow back, well most years ;) I know that this year was bad. You could see where the cows walked and that grass was gone. But normal years it is not. Now if you drive across corn, that corn is not going to grow back. I am sorry but their is no comparison.

One thing, I do call the landowners before I apply and after I get my tag. I have riden around with the racher so I know where his land ends. Most of the time he hunts with us. If more ranchers did this, their might be less trespassing. Some hunters don't do what I do, and I do not have an sympathy for them when they get in trouble or turned down from hunting. And if I happen to see deer on a neighbors land, I do drive in and ask permission then, I don't beleive that would justify me as a slob. It never hurts to ask. I am much happier with people who ask me to hunt then the ones who try to sneak out there and quick get back off.

Fulton

I beleive you missed my whole point. No where did I ever say that I have a right to hunt on private land because I got a tag. I think I did say that I have been out there to fix fence, and help brand, and sort cattle for sale day. I think that if you truly belive that these animals are yours, then you should keep them on your property as you do with your cattle, then you have any and all right to do with them as you please.

You can shoot pheasants for free on public roads and right aways. I beleive that this right should remain forever. I do let people, complete stangers, who have stopped and said " I seen 3 big roosters on you corner, do you mind if I get them?" shoot those 3 big roosters. I have even taken my dog out with them to help. I get just as much joy out of that as I would if I had shot them my self.

All: I am not trying to start a fight with any one here, I just want to get a better understanding of what it is you guys want done. I think the lockout was a good thing to try to get some of your concerns answered, but I beleive that it has expired and will not help you out much more. If you want more done, I feel that you will need the help of the east river people as well. I don't see the state having different sets of rules for each side, and if you guys want things to change, you will have to reach out and make us east river guys understand your point of view.
 
JB, it has been known to happen, the pot in the cornfield... Land owner is responsible and could even fall under Federal Rico statute or so the rumour goes.. Of course, around here all the pot they would find is industrial hemp, but they used to do flyovers and knock on your door and it was your responsibility at your price to clean it up if the patch was big enough... Pain in the arse.. I prefer to let the hippies and dead heads come out and "harvest" it thinking they are going to get a high when all they get is a head ache from the ditch weed.

As far as the rest of the Lock out stuff... Won't touch that topic with a 10 foot pole.
 
P Joe said:
I CAPATALIZED MY REMARKS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO FOLLOW. I AM NOT HOLLERING. LOL

I don't think you can compare corn to grass. Grass does grow back, well most years ;) I know that this year was bad. You could see where the cows walked and that grass was gone. But normal years it is not. Now if you drive across corn, that corn is not going to grow back. I am sorry but their is no comparison.

MAYBE THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO YOU, BUT THERE IS TO ME. BOTH ARE CROPS. YOUR CORN AND MY GRASS. I DON'T LIKE ANYONE, DRIVING ON MY GRASS. EVERY MOUTHFUL THAT IS KNOCKED DOWN, IS ONE LESS MOUTHFUL MY CRITTERS GET TO EAT. THAT COSTS ME MONEY.

MAYBE THAT IS ONE OF OUR PROBLEMS. THE MINDSETY OF SO MANY THAT, "WELL THESE RANCHERS GOT ALL THIS LAND AND ALL THIS GRASS, IT SURE WON'T HURT TO DRIVE OVER SOME AND HELP THEM POOR OL' RANCHERS OUT BY KILLING A FEW OF THEM NASTY OL' DEER. AND HOPEFULLY HE'LL BE A REAL BIG ONE AND NOT LIKE THAT PUNY 4 POINTER I MISTOOK FOR A BIG BUCK, LAST YEAR!"

MY GRASS IS JUST AS PRECIOUS TO ME AS ANYONES CORN, WHEAT OR OATS CROP!

One thing, I do call the landowners before I apply and after I get my tag. I have riden around with the racher so I know where his land ends. Most of the time he hunts with us. If more ranchers did this, their might be less trespassing.

HOW MUCH IS YOUR TIME WORTH? I KNOW HOW MUCH I HAVE TO MAKE PER DAY TO MAKE A LIVING. WHY SHOULD I GIVE UP EVEN ONE DAY OF MY PAY TO TAKE SOMEONE I DON'T KNOW, OUT TO SHOOT AT DEER, THAT AREN'T BOTHERING ME? FRANKLY, THE DEER ARE A LOT LESS BOTHER THAN THE GFP AND THE HUNTERS.

BUT I DO RAKE HUNTERS OUT,AS I DON'T WANT PEOPLE HUNTING ON MY LAND AND ENDING UP IN THE NEIGHBORS, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE MY LAND ENDED AND THE NEIGHBORS STARTED. AND I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE HUNT ON ME AND USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE.

I'VE OFFERED FOR YEARS, TO ANYONE WHO WANTED TO HUNT, TO TRADE WORK FOR WORK. WHAT EVER YOU GET PAID PER HOUR, YOU PAY ME THAT SAME AMOUNT PER HOUR AND I'LL DO MY DANGEDEST TO GET YOU THE DEER YOU WANT. SO WE ARE JUST TRADING TIME FOR TIME. BUT SO FAR, NO ONE HAS EVER TAKEN ME UP ON MY OFFER.

I DOUBT YOU'LL EVER REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS, UNTIL YOU INVEST A LOT OF BLOOD, SWEAT, TEARS AND MONEY IN A CHUNCK OF PROPERTY AND THEN HAVE EVERY TOM, DICK AND HARRY WHINE AT YOU THAT THEY NEED A PLACE TO HUNT. I THINK THAT IS WHAT PUBLIC LAND IS FOR. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE ME WORK, AND BELIEVE ME, TAKING HUNTERS AROUND AND BABYSITTING THEM, IS WORK, THEN PAY ME FOR IT. NOT AN ECSESIVE AMOUNT, JUST WHAT YOU MAKE PER HOUR, WILL BE FINE. WHETHER IT IS $5 AN HOUR OR $500.

IF THE NEIGHBORS WANT TO HUNT, I WOULD LET THEM, BEFORE ANYONE ELSE, AS THEY HELP ME WHENEVER I NEED IT.

AND I DON'T NEED MORE HELP AT BRANDING OR WORKING CATTLE OR ANYTHING ELSE, I CAN THINK OF. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST BREAK EVEN, EVERYDAY THAT THERE IS A HUNTER HERE.

If you want more done, I feel that you will need the help of the east river people as well. I don't see the state having different sets of rules for each side, and if you guys want things to change, you will have to reach out and make us east river guys understand your point of view.

WHERE DID ANYONE SAY THAT WE WANT THINGS DIFFERENT HERE ON THE WEST RIVER SIDE.?I COULD CARE LESS WHAT THEY DO ON THE EAST RIVER SIDE, AS I DON'T LIVE THERE AND IT DOSEN'T EFFECT ME.

I DON'T WANT ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSON, TO HAVE MORE RIGHTS THAN ANY OTHER, AND I DON'T WANT MY CONSTITIONAL RIGHTS TROMPT ON. THATS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT FOR ME.

BY THE WAY, I'VE RAISED AN RELEASED HUNDREDS OF PHEASENTS TOO, UNTIL I LEARNED THAT THEY BASICLY WON'T SURVIVE IN THIS ENVIROMENT. THEY NEED GRAIN AND PROTECTION FROM OUT BLIZZARDS AS THEY AIN'T SMART ENOUGH TO GET UNDER COVER, LIKE OUTR GROUSE DO.

AND I'VE SURE PROVIDED A LOT OF HABITAT FOR DEER AND OTHER GAME.

AND ANOTHER THING, DON'T GIVE ME THE SONG AND DANCE ABOUT THE DEER BEING HERE WHEN WE BOUGHT THE LAND. MY GREAT GRANDFATHER AND GRANDFATHER BOTH HOMESTEADED HER AND MY FATHER WAS BORN HERE IN 1914. THERE WERE NO DEER. ONLY JACKRABBITS, COYOTES AND A FEW ANTELOPE. THE DEER ARE HERE NOW BECASUE WE PROVIDE THEM WITH GOOD COVER AND FEED AND PROTECTION.

SO YES, I FEEL LKE THEY JUST MIGHT BELONG TO ME. AND EVEN IF THEY DON'T, I SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED ANYONE TO TELL ME HOW TO BEST MANAGE THEM AND TO ALLOW ANYONE IN THE WORLD TO COME AND SHOOT THEM AS PART OF THE MANAGEMENT PLAN.

SO YOU HAVE A NICE DAY. :)
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Oh, and by the way. When you go visit another person on their property, you are a guest. You follow their rules and you should behave yourself. Most don't understand or appreciate that.

You got any mice problems? Me and some friend will come to your house with our shotguns and our beer and take care of them for you. :D
 
southdakotahunter: come on......i dont think P joe said anything about having a right to hunt your land........please show me where he said this.

its amazing how people twist words around however they want.

There will be a time, during this lockout, maybe not this year or even next, where landowners will have too many critters on their land. will be eating way too much of their grass, will be getting into your stacks/bales if and when we have a bad winter.......what will ya do then....my guess is start shooting and drag the carcuss to the pit.......you know i am right. You will be too stubborn to call the gfp, the sherrif will tell ya to call the gfp but you will be too dang stubborn. The sherrif has no jurisdiction to tell ya to start shooting. You wont allow the only logical way to try to control the population by hunting, so when you see the deer pissing all over your stacks and bale, your gonna snap and the shooting starts..............sad............................time will tell.
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And there you have it folks – just one more example of why a lot of us don't miss having hunters with this sort of idiotic mindset turned loose on our land – and armed with large caliber rifles, no less!!!

P Joe:On the game warden issue, I am spoiled by ours. I do get to have coffee with the guy every saturday and sunday morning. He is one of the guys, don't get me wrong he will write tickets out when need be. But he lives and is part of our community. His kids play ball at high school. He does take the time to talk with us. And I understand that your gripe is truly with the GF&P and not with us.
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This is the sort of relationship that we used to have with our game wardens and our trappers and there is nothing we would like better than to have that type of person filling those positions out here again. Unfortunately that isn't the case and it will take a lot of time and effort to rebuild the mistrust created by the latest GF&P employees.

P Joe: LB, I know your gripe is with the GF&P but you are hurting the hunters as well.
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No, P Joe, GF&P is hurting hunters. We'll let hunters back in as soon as there is a law passed in this state protecting our property rights from abuse by them, and not until that happens will any hunter ever hunt here again. Call GF&P and complain to them. They created this mess and until they are willing to do something to fix the problem, it won't be fixed. Curse them if it will make you feel any better, and hey, it can't hurt!
 
this is STRICTLY for Jinglebob,

And like before, I don't mean to start a fight, but

WOW!!!! So much built up anger. Did a strike a nerve. Must have because the only thing that I see in your reply is MONEY issues. "I should be paid for my time" "I should be paid for my grass." MONEY MONEY MONEY. You are the type of landowners that I disagree with. You are the type that will want MONEY for a sponsor ship. You are the type that want MONEY from the state for raising the deer. You are the reason that deer season will turn into what pheasant season is now. And you are the reason why people back east will never help you. The only thing you care about is MONEY, and are trying to have you way with the GF&P to gain MONEY for yourself.

You are the very reason that GF&P wants to check the landowner becuase YOU will be the one that shoots those 100 deer because YOU are tired of feeding them. That is wrong. I hope you get caught when you do it.

Like I said in my last post, this lockout has got you about as far as it going to. It is has already began to unfold. People are letting hunters shoot does as posted by SDHunter and broadcasted by KELO.

You will need help from other landowers to get things done and that is not the way to go about getting it. Like it or not YOU are on the wrong side of the population line and YOU will never pass any law without some help from us.
 
This reply is for LB and anyone else listening.

Please don't take offense to what I wrote to Jinglebob. I beleive you to be different from him and do not think that of you.

I belive that you have been truly trampled on by GF&P. And I beleive that when you accomplish your goal that you will let hunting continue. I have written my congressman, and have voiced concern with my GF&P officer. I've gone to the east river working group meetings that GF&P put on. There is nothing more that I can do to help.

The problem that I see, and so do most others out this way is how Jinglebob is using people like you to get what they want. And GF&P can see that also. People like Jinglebob want to be able to sell licenses themselves and cash in. They want rid of GF&P so they have no one to answer too. The want big outfitters. Bottom line THEY want $$$$

If they are able to do that, people like you MIGHT start to charge as well. The same thing happen to pheasant hunting. I have seen good people, good people even neighbors turn so greedy that they charge ridulous amounts of money for hunting.

Your don't have to let anybody hunt if you don't want to. You don't specifically have to let me hunt. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when and if you let people hunt for $$ and then want more $$$$$. Then the landowner where I hunt, might want $$ to hunt. It is just a big snowball effect. Pretty soon everyone pays to hunt.

I beleive that if you (the landowners who truly want change for the good) want to accomplish your goal, you will need to draw a line between you and them. How you do that I don't know. But it is easy to see who really wants land rights back and who is hiding behind that to see the change for money. My one post proved that. If you guys are able to do this, I see you getting more support from us and GF&P being more willing to help you out. I do think the lockout has got you as fas as it is goin to. You can't do this alone. I truly want to help you guys out, but we need to find common ground to stand on first so we TOGETHER we can get GF&P to change.
 
P Joe said:
this is STRICTLY for Jinglebob,

And like before, I don't mean to start a fight, but

WOW!!!! So much built up anger. Did a strike a nerve. Must have because the only thing that I see in your reply is MONEY issues. "I should be paid for my time" "I should be paid for my grass." MONEY MONEY MONEY. You are the type of landowners that I disagree with. You are the type that will want MONEY for a sponsor ship. You are the type that want MONEY from the state for raising the deer. You are the reason that deer season will turn into what pheasant season is now. And you are the reason why people back east will never help you. The only thing you care about is MONEY, and are trying to have you way with the GF&P to gain MONEY for yourself.

You are the very reason that GF&P wants to check the landowner becuase YOU will be the one that shoots those 100 deer because YOU are tired of feeding them. That is wrong. I hope you get caught when you do it.

Like I said in my last post, this lockout has got you about as far as it going to. It is has already began to unfold. People are letting hunters shoot does as posted by SDHunter and broadcasted by KELO.

You will need help from other landowers to get things done and that is not the way to go about getting it. Like it or not YOU are on the wrong side of the population line and YOU will never pass any law without some help from us.
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Funny, when all I'm interested in is money, that I would turn away people who are willing to pay for the privledge (not the right) to hunt on my property.

How many deer, antelope, coyote, turkey or any other wildlife have you helped to live, breed and survive?

How many kids have you let hunt on you?

Do you actually own any land?

Ever have someone hunt on you and kill something they weren't supposed to, ( read that as a cow) and then claim they couldn't have possibly done it, even tho' they were the only ones shooting high powered rifles, around?

Ever have to go around and put all of the walking wounded out of their misery, because someone didn't take a good shot or decided, what the hell, there's still a little light left and what if I do miss? It's only a dumb animal.

Evidentley you don't have the foggiest clue, and that is why I've stayed away from this discussion, because of people like you. Don't worry, I won't respond to any more of your posts.

I'm just a big ol' bad, greedy rancher, and your jealous cuz' you aren't.

Sorry if I won't allow you to walk all over me and mine.

If it was all about money, I would have sold out years ago. There sure as hell are a lot of better paying jobs.

I was just trying to point out that it ain't no picnic to have people come and think they are doing you a big favor, by tromping all over your ground and crippling and maiming anything that moves, because "by golly, I bought a licsense and this here gun and I know how to shoot it and I can hit anything at a dead run at 600 yards and the wildlife belongs to me and by golly, you just better let me hunt on your land, cuz' the GFP gave me the right to do whatever I darn well please and you dumb ol' hicks just ain't as smart as me and all of my buddies and so what if I left a gate open, you ain't got nothin' better to do than chase some dumb ol' cows. Hey, you want a beer? Oh, too good to drink with me, huh? Well I don't know why you'd want to charge anyone to hunt. I mean, comeon man, I just spent $800 bucks on this rifle and I got big payments on that there new 4 wheel drive I'm drivin'. Sure costs a lot to have a little fun. Good thing these deer don't cost me anything for the meat. Lots cheaper than buying beef. You sure you don't want a beer. We got lots............."

Get my drift? :wink:
 
Lbs response was:

Quote:
southdakotahunter: come on......i dont think P joe said anything about having a right to hunt your land........please show me where he said this.

its amazing how people twist words around however they want.

There will be a time, during this lockout, maybe not this year or even next, where landowners will have too many critters on their land. will be eating way too much of their grass, will be getting into your stacks/bales if and when we have a bad winter.......what will ya do then....my guess is start shooting and drag the carcuss to the pit.......you know i am right. You will be too stubborn to call the gfp, the sherrif will tell ya to call the gfp but you will be too dang stubborn. The sherrif has no jurisdiction to tell ya to start shooting. You wont allow the only logical way to try to control the population by hunting, so when you see the deer pissing all over your stacks and bale, your gonna snap and the shooting starts..............sad............................time will tell.

And there you have it folks – just one more example of why a lot of us don't miss having hunters with this sort of idiotic mindset turned loose on our land – and armed with large caliber rifles, no less!!!





You know its not the hunters that will do that LB...........Its the landowners
 
Hey, SDH, you may have missed this fact in all the heated rhetoric, but that fact is that I OWN this land and I can pack a loaded gun on it any where I want.

Not even GF&P can take that gun away from me, nor can they take my land, at least not yet!

I will continue to exercise both these constitutionally guaranteed rights and what I do on MY land is none of YOUR business.

What YOU or any other hunter, or GF&P for that matter, does on my land is also my business and any of you will be prosecuted if I catch you trespassing.
 
well, from my understanding, if you get caught POACHING (which is what you would be doing if you shoot an animal without a license) the gfp can take your gun and anything associated with the poaching such as your vehical. i would also hate to see the fine associated with the crime since it is assessed per animal. It is your land and you can give permission to whoever is licensed to hunt whatever on your land, but that dont give you the right to open fire on the game whenever you feel.
 
P Joe, why shouldnt the land owner get paid? You talk about deer season becoming the same as pheasant season. Do you have something against us making a buck while you cash in?

Look around you. How many of your neighbors will let people hunt pheasants and/or deer for free. I doubt very many. Look at other states like Wyoming, Montana, Iowa etc. Many landowners are now charging to hunt.

I dont think the lockout is the problem. I think it might be your point of view.

That being said, I honestly believe that you are trying to get a better understanding of what is going on. SD hunter on the otherhand, I believe is just trying to pick a fight.

You have to admit though that some of the game and fish policies need to be changed. Do you really think that they always have the best interests for wildlife when they issue licenses, or do you think that just maybe they are watching their bottom line. Who would have the best knowledge of the amount of deer in a certain area. My guess is the landowners. Guess how many times the game & fish has called and asked for input on wildlife #'s Not once. Last year many whitetailed deer died of disease. Do you think the G & F lowered the number of licenses for that particular area. Absolutely not.

I would suggest before you go and criticize the people who support the lockout, take a little more time to get to know what it is really all about.

If we were all greedy ranchers, their would be no lockout. Instead, you would be paying 2,000 - 5,000 to hunt.
 
JB said How many deer, antelope, coyote, turkey or any other wildlife have you helped to live, breed and survive?

Have you ever seen what 200 whitetail deer will do to 80 acres of corn??? Didn't think so.[/color]

JB asked How many kids have you let hunt on you?

I supported the youth hunt for the last 3 years now. Kids get their own weekend to go out and hunt before the opener. Both deer and pheasants.

JB asked Do you actually own any land?

Actually I do, 800 acres to be excact. I know you probably have 5000, but I don't need that much.

JB asked Ever have someone hunt on you and kill something they weren't supposed to, ( read that as a cow) and then claim they couldn't have possibly done it, even tho' they were the only ones shooting high powered rifles, around?

No I haven't. I don't have the 300 cows like you. Ever have a bullet come thru you house?? I have.

JB asked Ever have to go around and put all of the walking wounded out of their misery, because someone didn't take a good shot or decided, what the hell, there's still a little light left and what if I do miss? It's only a dumb animal.

Yep, same thing happens here. Most the time the GF&P will take care of it for us, but I guess THAT wouldn't be welcomed out there.

JB says Evidentley you don't have the foggiest clue, and that is why I've stayed away from this discussion, because of people like you. Don't worry, blah blah blah.

I think you have been burnt by someone before, and am sorry that happen. But you need to get over your sterotype of us, if you ever want help to get things changed.
 
You see, I am not the one cashing in. I am one of the people fighting the bigger pheasant farms from pushing their ideas on us. Becasue they think they own the pheasants, the road and everything.I know not very many people let you on for free, but there are people arond that still do.

I understand that you think you should deserve something for letting me, or others on. I am one of many that are willing to come out in the spring and fix some fence, brand and bale. Hell it's a vacation for me. I don't have to worry about it when something breaks :) I love coming out there and have done it before. The thing that I don't want is having to pay $1000 to hunt. I would rather give you $1000 in labor then that in cash. Beleive it or not, I am not one of the rich snobs that you see coming out of SF.

I never meant it to sound like the lockout is the problem. I think it was a good idea to do to get some things done. But it is starting to loose its effect. I think you guys will need to come up with something different to get your voices heard again.

I do admit that GF&P does sometimes let the money drive their decisions. They have never called me either on how many deer have been shot off our land or ask how many pheasants I turned loose compared to what was harvested. They claim they get a good idea thru the hunter surveys. Maybe they do. I do know that our poplution has climbed every year even though they have issued more licenses each year.

I am not criticizing anyone, well.... except for maybe JB :), on supporting the lockout, I just wanted to get a feel for what it is you guys are complaining about and what you want changed. I can't support the idea's and things JB wants. I feel that all he is after is the power to issue his deer tags and sell them to the highest bidder. And who is to say that hunter will be any better with eithical decisions then the guy who use to hunt there and blow things up?

I know not all of you are greedy ranchers, but some are. Just how it is back here. Some charge rediculous amounts of money, some let you on for free. Thats why I am fighting so hard to keep road hunting alive. The greedy ones don't want it. There already is big outfits charging that much for mule deer hunts out there. I don't want to see that same thing happen to deer season too.
 
Hey JB, I reread your post, and am curious as to what it is that would make YOU happy. Everything you talk about some how reverts back to money.

You complain about me having 4 wheel drives and expensive guns and things. Oh, by the way I drive a 10 year old truck and bought my rifle off a farm sale. I shoot my grandad's old 870 shotgun at pheasants.

But here is a question for you. What generation rancher are you?? 3rd, 4th maybe 5th. How much did you give you dad or granddad for the ranch. Let me guess 20 years worth of work. Still don't add up to the million dollar ranch you were given does it? You probably screwed your 3 sisters our of their part of the inheritance. How much do you spend on grass seed, and fertilzer and things. Probably not much. You have a loader tractor, another tractor and baler. Am I pretty close on that? You were given more then I will ever make in a lifetime. Sooo......excuse me if I call you greedy for wanting big $$$$ to shoot deer. Deer that you DON"T OWN. And exuse me when I stand up to you and the others when you push your big money making legisture down my throat.

If that is what you are interested in then by all means build a big game preserve and do what you want. I hope you don't get $1 dollar from the government to do it. Because it is your land and not the taxpayers problem.
 
There is no problem with anyone charging to hunt. I for one will never pay to hunt. I will quit before that ever happens. I just hope that wont happen for my kids.

There is a difference between pheasants and deer. The difference is pheasants dont damage, or at least you dont hear of problems with it.

As you and i know, the population of big game is at an all time high in the country. If you dont try to thin the herd by taking does from the herd, you are not helping the problem. I dont know anyone who would pay someone to shoot a doe, yet i have asked to hunt before only to be turned down when i ask to shoot a doe. I have been told i can hunt a doe but it will cost anywhere from $100 to $1000. Yet when the big winter comes, they complain of too many deer. It makes no sense.

My son and i have 8 tags this year with only 1 tag being any whitetail, the rest are antlerless tags. I can tell ya the GFP will find out from me who wont let me hunt a doe and it is the policy of the GFP to not help with depredation if the landowner dont allow reasonable hunting, and reasonable hunting is the hunting of doe deer without having to pay big $$$$. maybe the landowner has family and friends who hunt them and thats great. they sure dont have to let me but hopefully they are letting someone. I have friends that allow me to hunt but not others. Hunting doesnt have to be for the rich and i know i dont have the chances of harvesting a trophy unless i pay someone but thats ok. the hunt is whats fun. Being with my kid and friends is the fun.

Dont let people hunt, that fine. Only let those with the big $$$ hunt, thats fine also, but dont bench when you have problems you could have taken care of before.
 
Fulton wrote: Guess how many times the game & fish has called and asked for input on wildlife #'s Not once. Last year many whitetailed deer died of disease. Do you think the G & F lowered the number of licenses for that particular area. Absolutely not.

Fulton it is the practice of many western states and I'm sure yours does it as well, to do aerial surveys of big game, they can get a pretty darn good idea of what is out there. ALL states have co's and other personnel do road side counts of many species of wildlife. It is a time issue thing and also it could be very manipulated asking landowners about wildlife numbers. If people percieve the numbers too high many will call there Game depts and let them know. Do you attend any commision meetings in your state? Also with all the negative talk about your Game Dept why would they be so inclined to call or go out on your ground to do a count?

As far as many whitetails died of disease, how many, over how big an area? A best guess? Did you call your Game dept and let them know what you saw?

Pay to hunt is something that will be the down fall in relationship of landowners and sportsman. The avergae Joe working won't/ and alot of cases can't afford those prices tags. When you have this happen ALL states and ALL people will loose, Pittman/robertson funds come from sportsman and get paid back to the states, without this funding many,many states will see a budget crunch and the services offered and help recieved will be less, benefitting NO ONE period. For those of you that don't want to see higher property taxes or any other form of tax then I wouldn't go down this road as you loose hunters, the states taxpayers will be forced into higher taxes, as wildlife will always need to be controlled or very bad things can/will happen. Look at large dog towns in western areas with plague on them serious health risk to people, rabies and coyotes in Texas serious health risk to people and livestock. The list goes on and on.

Sportsman numbers have been dwindling each decade the thing is to recruit new sportsman and woman as they are the cheapest method to control wildlife numbers. Look at it as hunters come to your land to hunt, they pay for license,gas,food,lodging all which helps your tax base, and they also remove species to keep them in balance at zero cost to you in most cases. They provide a service to landowners and all people of all states at a low cost and brings revenue in for many,many areas in many states.

I also worry about landowners in this pay to hunt deal as many don't get adiquate insurance and one day someone will get in a heap of trouble by going pay to hunt no insurance and a major lawsuit will insue. Many who worked hard a lifetime could be a big loser in a lawsuit of this type. Jurys see a differance in those that lend a hand versus those with there hand out looking to get it green.

There are still people who wouldn't think to charge to hunt, but that number is on the decrease in certain areas. You see there will come a time when the market gets saturated it will happen and then quailty and price will play into many of those who pay to hunt to make choices as to where to go and how much it cost them. To run a productive pay to hunt big game operation, takes time and money for sure, as if you can't provide quailty then next year they will go elsewhere. The best bang for your buck mentality, as they don't need to be loyal to anyone they are paying for services rendered. The dad and 2 kids will come back each and every year and shoot those does of any species, just to have a chance at maybe seeing that nice buck. The highest majority of paid to hunt clients are not about meat hunting or doe reduction as that isn't there job when paying you $2,000 or more to hunt deer,antelope or elk.

If they where meat hunters they could go elesewhere for free or hunt public areas. With a high price tag comes high expectations put on the landowners to produce quaility. Much easier when dealing with game birds versus big game.
 
I don't know what you've been smoking Happy, but none of this verbiage has a thing to do with those of us who are in the lockout to protect our property rights.

Do you think we care if any one ever gets to hunt again if it means we have to give up our rights so they can shoot something? The answer is a big, fat NO.

Do you think we care if a landowner decides to go to pay hunting to try to make a return on all the money he's lost feeding the state's game by charging the state a fee to hunt on his place? No. That's his business and it's his land to do with what he wants.
 
SDH There is a difference between pheasants and deer.
Click to expand...
What a profound thought. We would never have realized that if we didn't have folks like you to keep us informed.

SDH: As you and i know, the population of big game is at an all time high in the country. If you dont try to thin the herd by taking does from the herd, you are not helping the problem. I dont know anyone who would pay someone to shoot a doe, yet i have asked to hunt before only to be turned down when i ask to shoot a doe. I have been told i can hunt a doe but it will cost anywhere from $100 to $1000. Yet when the big winter comes, they complain of too many deer. It makes no sense.

My son and i have 8 tags this year with only 1 tag being any whitetail, the rest are antlerless tags. I can tell ya the GFP will find out from me who wont let me hunt a doe and it is the policy of the GFP to not help with depredation if the landowner dont allow reasonable hunting, and reasonable hunting is the hunting of doe deer without having to pay big $$$$. maybe the landowner has family and friends who hunt them and thats great. they sure dont have to let me but hopefully they are letting someone. I have friends that allow me to hunt but not others. Hunting doesnt have to be for the rich and i know i dont have the chances of harvesting a trophy unless i pay someone but thats ok. the hunt is whats fun. Being with my kid and friends is the fun.
Dont let people hunt, that fine. Only let those with the big $$$ hunt, thats fine also, but dont bench when you have problems you could have taken care of before.
Click to expand...
Those are your problems, not ours. We'll take care of ourselves and you tend to your own business. We've been managing on our own for generations out here in the hinterlands and we will continue to do so.

It may have escaped your notice, but no one out here has asked you for anything, nor do we intend to. Don't ask us for anything either.

Thanks for reminding us that not having hunters around isn't the worst thing that can happen. I'm sure your fellow sportsmen will thank you for reminding us what we're missing.
 
Liberty Belle said:
SDH There is a difference between pheasants and deer.
Click to expand...
What a profound thought. We would never have realized that if we didn't have folks like you to keep us informed.

SDH: As you and i know, the population of big game is at an all time high in the country. If you dont try to thin the herd by taking does from the herd, you are not helping the problem. I dont know anyone who would pay someone to shoot a doe, yet i have asked to hunt before only to be turned down when i ask to shoot a doe. I have been told i can hunt a doe but it will cost anywhere from $100 to $1000. Yet when the big winter comes, they complain of too many deer. It makes no sense.

My son and i have 8 tags this year with only 1 tag being any whitetail, the rest are antlerless tags. I can tell ya the GFP will find out from me who wont let me hunt a doe and it is the policy of the GFP to not help with depredation if the landowner dont allow reasonable hunting, and reasonable hunting is the hunting of doe deer without having to pay big $$$$. maybe the landowner has family and friends who hunt them and thats great. they sure dont have to let me but hopefully they are letting someone. I have friends that allow me to hunt but not others. Hunting doesnt have to be for the rich and i know i dont have the chances of harvesting a trophy unless i pay someone but thats ok. the hunt is whats fun. Being with my kid and friends is the fun.
Dont let people hunt, that fine. Only let those with the big $$$ hunt, thats fine also, but dont bench when you have problems you could have taken care of before.
Click to expand...
Those are your problems, not ours. We'll take care of ourselves and you tend to your own business. We've been managing on our own for generations out here in the hinterlands and we will continue to do so.

It may have escaped your notice, but no one out here has asked you for anything, nor do we intend to. Don't ask us for anything either.

Thanks for reminding us that not having hunters around isn't the worst thing that can happen. I'm sure your fellow sportsmen will thank you for reminding us what we're missing.
Click to expand...

Very good post LB! My thoughts exactly! :)

Seems that they can't figure out that we don't need them, they need us.
 

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