SD westriver lockout- OVER??

[Happy go lucky]

LB wrote: all the money he's lost feeding the state's game by charging the state a fee to hunt on his place?

Tell me your dollar amount lost to wildife feeding each year a round figure will do! Instead of talking to the points mentioned in the thread you go off, because you can't dispute facts.

So you tell me your 1 and only complaint is that if your states CO's have to ask permission to come onto your land your content and your issues resolved?

 

[Liberty Belle]

Happy: Tell me your dollar amount lost to wildife feeding each year a round figure will do! Instead of talking to the points mentioned in the thread you go off, because you can't dispute facts.

So you tell me your 1 and only complaint is that if your states CO's have to ask permission to come onto your land your content and your issues resolved?

Reread what I posted above. Slowly. Maybe you'll be able to figure out what I said. Or maybe not. Either way, it really doesn't matter to me what you think.

I could care less about going through your list of idiotic questions and pseudo "facts" only to have you come back with more garbage you've supposedly taken off some website somewhere.

Read this again – I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK!! And what's more, I don't have to care.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[P Joe]

Very good post LB! My thoughts exactly!

Seems that they can't figure out that we don't need them, they need us.

See that is where you are wrong buddy. The FACT of the matter is that 19 other states have taken the open field doctorine to court and 19 of those states side with the GF&P. If you are going to want you land rights protected you are going to need a majority of South Dakotans to vote in your favor. And I am sorry but another fact is that you are in the minority. And you will never get any support with your greedy attitude.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Boy Jinglebob,looks to me like you sold someone in Central SD a sore fittin saddle cause they seem to have a burr in thier butt :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

It's all about the money-just quit being so damn hypocritical and admit it-I for one would respect your position alot more. Seems it's an American trait to cloud issues up with Mom and apple pie when all it boils down to is you selling the game on your ranch and you don't want your activities monitored. I know Lb and JB could care a rat's ash about what I think but I went and said it anyway lol. Lb doesn't have to worry about mountainlions and wolves they'd never bite anything that ornery lol.

 

[P Joe]

Reread what I posted above. Slowly. Maybe you'll be able to figure out what I said. Or maybe not. Either way, it really doesn't matter to me what you think.

I could care less about going through your list of idiotic questions and pseudo "facts" only to have you come back with more garbage you've supposedly taken off some website somewhere.

Read this again – I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK!! And what's more, I don't have to care.

Is that clear enough for you?

Well that is truly sad. Sad indeed. Hey by the way did you know that most hunters are TAXPAYERS??? Yep they truly are.

Now I remeber somthing from this summer that you guys received from the TAXPAYER. Was it like $7 or $10 a head for drought assistance. I know it doesn't add up to much, but I hope you didn't take it. Because a small percentage of that is directly from me. MY MONEY that was GIVEN to you.

I ALSO beleive the state paid you so much for each acre of grass that was burned this summer. I hope that you didn't take that $ either because then I would own part of your grass then huh???

The idea that you guys, don't give a rip what we think and that we need you more than you need us is a crock of s**t. None of you guys would still be out there if you hadn't taken handouts from people like me. And to turn your back on us all because some crazy landowner got into a tiff with a hard headed GF&P officer about shooting coyotes from a plane. That is how all this crap got started. You know it and I know it. One freakin loony with a cause.

I tell you what, the next time ranchers are complaining about getting money, I am going to voice my opinion against it. I am going to do all I can to Knock Johnson and Thune out of office, because they fight to get you guys money. And you know what, and you or JB said this your self, there is more hunters then there are ranchers. We'll vote you ash right into the ground. Then when you go belly up, I'll buy your place for pennies on the dollar and I will never have to worry about asking people like yourself for permission again.

Oh and JB, I must have hit the nail on the head there since I didn't get reply back.

I got an answer for you. Why don't you chase every freaking animal that you can find, big, small, fury, or scaley off of your land. Chase everything off. You don't want to feed them anymore anyways. Take all the money you are saving from not feeding the animals and build the biggest fence anyone has ever seen. All the way around your ranch You won't have to worry about GF&P seeing you do ANYTHING. Now all the animals will be on Public land. Hunters will never have to deal with you again.

It's a WIN WIN stituation. You don't have to deal with hunters or feed anymore unwanted animals. Boy look at all the money you are saving. And now I can actully expect to see life on public land for a change.

But wait, you probably wouldn't do that anyways, because it really don't cost a whole lot to keep the animals around, and you couldn't get $1000 dollars a hunter to supplement your income because you really can't make it on your own. Can you???????

I don't expect a reply back becuase the cold hard truth hurts. I know you guys will just toss this up as some jack@ss back east with a big mouth who has no idea how things work out west.

Well the last people that lived out there thought that and now they live on the reservation. I think you'd be best to change your tune and try to get along while there is still people like me who want to help you resolve this so we all can get back to normal.

 

[P Joe]

It's all about the money-just quit being so damn hypocritical and admit it-I for one would respect your position alot more. Seems it's an American trait to cloud issues up with Mom and apple pie when all it boils down to is you selling the game on your ranch and you don't want your activities monitored. I know Lb and JB could care a rat's ash about what I think but I went and said it anyway lol. Lb doesn't have to worry about mountainlions and wolves they'd never bite anything that ornery lol.

You see even our nothern neighbors see thru you guys.

 

[Happy go lucky]

Clear enough LB you can't support your arguments or statements with facts so you do personnel attacks! I'm a decent guy but what I don't like are pot stirrers or hip shooters because a high% of these people can not support there thoughts or ideals with facts, I mean it is up to all if us if where going public with all information to try and fact find before posting it makes us have more creditability.

I will apologize to anyone if they can proove facts as to my statements being false, I have an open mind and enjoy learning that is the best thing about knowledge,education and these forums.

Can you say the same LB?

 

[Badlands]

NorthernRancher:

I wouldn't say it's all about money. We thought about fee hunting at our ranch in Eastern MT, but were just too worried about the liability issues. When you cross the line into making money off the game, then there are bigger liability issues. The folks with the money to spend to hunt also have money to spend on lawyers.

LibertyBelle and JingleBob:

Don't worry about these guys, you won't change their mind. I had a few "city friends" when I was in Bozeman. Good ones, too. Had one stand up with me in my wedding. But, there came a point in time on hunting where he became fully convinced that he had a right to hunt on any ranchers land. The point of me hunting on his lawn flies right over his head. "That's different", he says, but he never could tell me exactly how it was different.

In MT, as long as it is still the same as it was, the Game Warden has more rights than more normal law enforcement officials in terms of being able to go where he wants. Maybe it is the Brand Inspector, actually, I can't remember the hierarchy. I guess we never had any problems with it. So, it sounds like you folks in SD had some bad experiences with the same system we have. We had a great GW for years, and now we are mostly the place they send the new ones, like Oldtimer said. I still remember ours in out Hunter Safety courses 20 some years ago. He said he didn't want to hear any "what if" questions. Like, "What if you shoot two deer with one shot?", "What if..." He said it indicated to him that your older brother had already done that!!!!!! :lol: Smart guy!


Badlands

 

[Mike]

Good Post Badlands. Check your PM on the other forum.

 

[Liberty Belle]

It's all about the money-just quit being so damn hypocritical and admit it-I for one would respect your position alot more. Seems it's an American trait to cloud issues up with Mom and apple pie when all it boils down to is you selling the game on your ranch and you don't want your activities monitored. I know Lb and JB could care a rat's ash about what I think but I went and said it anyway lol. Lb doesn't have to worry about mountainlions and wolves they'd never bite anything that ornery lol.

Aw, Northern Rancher, I love you too. And you're right about that rodent's rear end. :twisted:

Explain to me again about the money. Selling the game on my ranch? That never has happened here and never will.

We have NEVER charged a dime for hunting here and if we ever get our property rights protected by state law, we won't charge hunters to hunt here again.

I might point out that it is completely legal to charge hunters now if a landowner wants to put up with that mess.

How did any of you get the idea that the lockout has anything to do with pay hunting anyway? :???:

Talk about clouding the issue…

 

[Anonymous]

NorthernRancher:

I wouldn't say it's all about money. We thought about fee hunting at our ranch in Eastern MT, but were just too worried about the liability issues. When you cross the line into making money off the game, then there are bigger liability issues. The folks with the money to spend to hunt also have money to spend on lawyers.

Yep that liability for fee hunting is huge...Some of the insurance companies told us they wouldn't even give us liability coverage if we charged to hunt...Most those who lease out deeded land to outfitters now require the outfitter to provide liability coverage- but I always worry about that even, since I haven't procured it myself...

And your right about the hunters all having lawyers- some are lawyers or drag their lawyers hunting with them...A couple years ago one group that hunted my Block Management had a Federal District Court Judge with them...After they got thru hunting here a day or two they headed for SD.



In MT, as long as it is still the same as it was, the Game Warden has more rights than more normal law enforcement officials in terms of being able to go where he wants. Maybe it is the Brand Inspector, actually, I can't remember the hierarchy.

About 10 years ago, the Fish and Game made a stupid search to get a poached elk (which anyone else with brains would have got a search warrent for )- and walked right in on a big drug operation- which ended up in the Supreme Court and Montana lost the Open Field doctrine...This pretty much ended even the Brand Inspectors authority to ride thru and check herds without permission or a search warrent- altho I can't remember ever checking an area/herd without calling someone -- except for a couple cases of abandoned, starving, or mistreated animals that were deserted and the land owner couldn't be found...Kind of an exigent circumstances for the health and safety of the animals- and if we lost it in court, we lost it- but at least the animals were safe....

 

[fulton]

P Joe, you might want to rethink your point about taxes. Who has recieved the most help from the gov't in years past, the farmer or the rancher? We pay taxes to remember. Why would you want Thune and Johnson out? Arent you involved in ag? To me it seems like that might hurt your operation as well. I dont know your financial position but I assuming that you depend on that 800 acres to make a living.

 

[fulton]

By the way the lockout was NEVER an attack on hunters. LB, maybe you should jump in here or if you have it post the article about the coyote incident between Jerry and Les.

I have no way of proving this so go ahead any rip me on this Happy, but most everyone in NW SD enjoys hunting season and enjoys having hunters come out. I would guess SD hunter that 90% of landowners would let you hunt and kill as may does as you want before the lockout. Especially if you made arrangements BEFORE the season started. You are obviously very passionate about hunting and you would probably cause no problems. It is however their RIGHT to let you hunt or deny you to hunt on THEIR land. Most ranchers will also agree that hunting controls the population. No one is arguing these points with you.

 

[Southdakotahunter]

LB says

How did any of you get the idea that the lockout has anything to do with pay hunting anyway?

Talk about clouding the issue…



There are alot of cloudy issues. Just like people on this site have said i think i should be able to hunt anywhere......I Have NEVER said that and have never implied it.

I have asked before the season to hunt at places. I have told the story before from Jones County SD where i was told before the season $1k to hunt a doe on first weekend or last, didnt matter. I have been chewed out for turning around in a driveway, i have been flipped off driving down the gravel when i wave at the rancher. I have been chewed out for just watching deer with bino's from the road and not having permission, rancher pulls up and starts questioning me.............dont make sense, thats how bad feelings start. I will say Jones county is the worst i have ever seen and wont go back there ever, wont even poll off to get gas in murdo.......hate the county. It dont take too many places or experiences like that to develope a bad taste, just like some of the ranchers out west get a bad taste from a very few but its the few that ruin it for others.

I hunt mostly Public when im out west, just because of experiences. On top of it all, it dont take to many times of driving sometimes driving many miles just to get turned down or told $$$......so i stay away from most, not to mention the NO HUNTING signs on ever other post, why even stop and ask, some look at ya like your nuts because they think ya cant read.

Anyway i have never ever said i have a right to anyones land. All i have said is when the time comes where your herd is too larg and is pissing on your bales and the snow is up to your arse and your cattle wont eat the hay, dont get upset when the state wont help ya. You have to help yourself and not allowing hunting dont help

 

[P Joe]

P Joe, you might want to rethink your point about taxes. Who has recieved the most help from the gov't in years past, the farmer or the rancher? We pay taxes to remember. Why would you want Thune and Johnson out? Arent you involved in ag? To me it seems like that might hurt your operation as well. I dont know your financial position but I assuming that you depend on that 800 acres to make a living.

I never claimed I didn't recevie anything either. It just really upset me being told that my opinion and my thoughts don't matter. When in fact they do. They, out west, will never ever get anything done until they get the majority of people on board. And with their hard nose line of thinking, that will never happen.

I don't care if you let me or any one else hunt again. That doens't bother me. It's your land to do with what you please. What does is the new proposal that GF&P has said with the way deer tags are drawn. I don't agree with it. And neither JB or LB has address that issue with me. That right there is my whole problem and why I won't support the lockout. I agree with you guys and GF&P trampling on your ground. I don't argue that point. I argue the other parts of what they want done. And it is hard nose people like LB and JB that want all or nothing. They are not willing to give a little to get what they keep saying they want most.

 

[P Joe]

That all being said.

Please LB and JB explain to me this new way of drawing tags? I don't want to hear anything about GF&P and land rights. We all agree that GF&P shouldn't have the right to do it. We, or I atleast want to know you thoughts on the new way of drawing for tags.

 

[Liberty Belle]

That all being said.

Please LB and JB explain to me this new way of drawing tags? I don't want to hear anything about GF&P and land rights. We all agree that GF&P shouldn't have the right to do it. We, or I atleas want to know you thoughts on the new way of drawing for tags.

Sorry, P Joe, I'd explain the new way of drawing for tags to you if I knew anything about it, but I don't. I didn't even realize there was a new way of drawing. What can you tell me about it? Does it give an advantage to certain members of the hunting community over others?

Since I haven't bought a hunting license for years, I have no idea how the GF&P chooses who gets what license. You have to realize that they are a bureaucracy accountable to no one, so if you don't like what they are doing there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. In that respect, hunters and landowners have a lot in common.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll be perfectly honest with you- I think the biggest intrusion being made into our rights and land and property privacy is the new Mandatory ID being shoved down our throats by the "guvment" and some of the corporate backing organizations..... Its the start of something much more invasive and worse than any open field doctrine ever thought of being...

In the Orwellian country of the future which our government is heading toward- Will the banker be able to drive down the highway next to your land and check on his collateral/investment whenever he wants to-- or will the tax man no longer require a tax statement on animals owned- Just wave the wand as he drives down the road...Governments cattle on feed report will be done by waving the wand as they fly over the feedlot... :roll: The basic technology is there today- used by law enforcement and the military-- it just needs a few years to be refined and developed for private use...

Fish and Game has already used radio tracking for their important animals - the wolves, grizzly bears, ferrets, sagehens, and mountain lions- while doing it to a lesser extent with the deer/elk/antelope...Is the day coming when they microchip everything - animals and hunting licenses (or hunters) so they can track the movement of both?....

I know it sounds wild and crazy- but in the last 40-50 years I have seen many of the "Dick Tracy" gadgets/ideas and Orwellian government concepts, we laughed and scoffed at, come to be...Who'd have thought 20 years ago that everyone would walk around with an instant communicating telephone in their pocket or that cops would set in an office and issue tickets off a video or recording :???:

Thats the reason I kind of have to give Liberty Belle and her group an "Atta-Boy" for just standing up for what they believe in...If we all don't start standing up for our rights and our freedoms- there aren't gonna be any left to stand up for......

 

[P Joe]

That all being said.

Please LB and JB explain to me this new way of drawing tags? I don't want to hear anything about GF&P and land rights. We all agree that GF&P shouldn't have the right to do it. We, or I atleas want to know you thoughts on the new way of drawing for tags.

Sorry, P Joe, I'd explain the new way of drawing for tags to you if I knew anything about it, but I don't. I didn't even realize there was a new way of drawing. What can you tell me about it? Does it give an advantage to certain members of the hunting community over others?

Since I haven't bought a hunting license for years, I have no idea how the GF&P chooses who gets what license. You have to realize that they are a bureaucracy accountable to no one, so if you don't like what they are doing there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. In that respect, hunters and landowners have a lot in common.

Part of the proposal formed from the west river working group is to rid the open field doctorine. The other is this

They currently draw for deer tags. Like pulling names out of the hat. they want to add a special drawing that will be held for hunters that have sponsorship from a landowner. Half of the tags now alotted would be added to this pool to which to draw from. A landowner would be allowed to sponsor one hunter for every 1000 acres of land they own up to 8 sponsorships. The sponsored hunter would be able to apply for this pool. If unsuccessful he would then be able to apply for the regular draw as well.

Which in theory this isn't a bad idea. You could then choose who you wanted on your land and make sure they get a tag. But what I see happening is the landowners selling their sponsor ships to the highest bidder. Hence if I don't come up with the $$ then I would be elgible for half the licenses that there are now.

And I feel the landowers that have come up with this idea, are out for just that. $$$$ and they are using the ranchers like you who have a beef with GF&P to get what they want done also.

Change the open field doctorine. I don't care. But I do care about the latter. I can not support that idea. And I think it is the hard nose people that want both things change and won't settle for the one that are causing this whole thing to continue.