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Shamie has some explainin' to do

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Tam

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Eyewitness Account of Pentagon Attack
By Terry Morin
An eye-witness account of the aircraft impact into the pentagon and subsequent rescue efforts...written by a former USMC aviator working as a contractor at the BMDO offices at the old Navy Annex.

Friends, Family, and Fellow Americans,
As many of you know, two SPARTANs were in locations on Tuesday to witness the attack on the Pentagon. Many people have asked me to share the events of that day. So, while fresh, here are my memories of that fateful day.


The Attack

I had just reached the elevator in the 5th Wing of BMDO/Federal Office Building (FOB) #2 – call it approximately 9:36 AM. I was already trying to make some sense out of the World Trade Tower attacks having heard about them on the radio. The news was sketchy, but the fact that it was a terrorist attack was already known. I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3 to retrieve my clear lenses.

Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted. Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual. I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5.

One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. I instantly had a very bad feeling about this but things were happening very quickly.

The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB). Everything was shaking and vibrating, including the ground. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities.

Within seconds the planecleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled.

As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft.

I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.


The Reaction

Many of the FOB people had been looking at the news reports flowing out of the attack on the World Trade Center Towers, going about their normal work routine as they watched. Maybe half or a bit more already knew of the New York attacks. However, within seconds of the impact -- less than a minute after the FOB flyover -- several thousand people started exiting the FOB.

People poured through the vehicle security checkpoint, crossing Columbia Pike into the FOB parking lot. As people were leaving the building in a very rapid manner, emergency vehicles, police, fire engines and ambulances were racing to the scene. They began arriving within 3 to 5 minutes of the impact.

Several military officers were standing in the middle of Columbia Pike, essentially directing traffic and holding the pedestrians back so that emergency vehicles could get through. The looks on their faces were somewhere between shock, terror, horror, and confusion. Many were crying. Many were stunned. Some were yelling to clear the area, move away from the buildings. Concern was that we might be the next target. Some were indicating that people should go home, but most just stared in silence at the burning West Wing of the Pentagon. Some cars were leaving the compound as well as the parking lot, but very few. Many tried to make phone calls to family or to home offices to say they were safe, but within minutes of the attack the sheer volume of traffic clobbered cell phones and other lines of communication. Those that got through needed patience and persistence.

As groups of friends and co-workers gathered to look on, immediate declarations of anger, frustration, dismay came out. We stood in the parking lot for approximately 15 minutes when a call came out for help. What must have been a hundred people moved in the direction of the Pentagon together and without hesitation. I saw Vicki Aardema, Chris Avvisato, John Schessler, and former SPARTAN Jen Metzler all walking down to the scene. As we got closer and crossed over the now empty roads, the devastation could be seen through the smoke and flames. It was just unbelievable. The police started to turn people away from the site. FBI agents were already there and had declared the whole area a crime scene. Declaring a crime scene prevents people from getting in that are not police, fire or medical type personnel. I was allowed to proceed because I witnessed the event. Ultimately, I believe that only Jen Metzler and myself made it to the scene, but I didn’t run into her for the rest of the day.


Rescue and Recovery

After I shared a couple of things that I had seen to a local law enforcement official -- what I will call a perimeter policeman -- he hustled me off to an FBI agent named Mike. He took what I would call a ¾ statement, then told me to go to the Command Post (CP) and wait. Someone else would want to discuss what I saw. At that point I met a young African American who was standing next to Mike, the FBI agent. He had streaks of blood on his T-shirt and was wearing bandages on both arms. Apparently he had been standing in the Control Tower for the Helo Pad that was approximately 200 feet to the North of the actual impact point. He still looked as though he was in shock, but indicated that he had witnessed the impact. I then confirmed that the aircraft had been flown directly into the Pentagon without hitting the ground first or skipping into the building. As he and I were walking in the direction of the CP, medical supplies started to arrive. A van pulled up and they asked for volunteers to unload. Items in the van seemed to have been loaded very hurriedly: individual packs of 4x4 gauze, irrigation fluid, IV and oxygen equipment, wooden stretchers. Medical folks were trying to get a handle on it. Get the stuff out and get it organized. Nurses were cracking the organizational whip: IV stuff here, fluid there, get those litters out of the way. About that time, we got the first of 4 or 5 calls to take cover. Reports had been received of other aircraft coming in for what could be a subsequent attack. At about the same time the upper floors on the Pentagon caved in and collapsed. I didn’t see it, but many in the crowd acknowledged the event.

We picked up the supplies and moved them under a concrete overpass with a small tunnel of about 100 feet or so of coverage. I saw a couple of injured folks, but they appeared to be in good hands – injuries did not seem from a distance to be life threatening. After a couple of the follow-on attack scares, many of us were formed up into 4-man stretcher teams. Approximately 30 teams were formed. We were moved up to the scene and given rubber gloves. We were taken in several directions, but finally landed about 300 feet west of the Helo Pad out on Hwy 110. They had set up the medical people under the trees, putting the three levels of care in a line. Dead and dying were on the North end, triage and serious in the middle, walking wounded on the South end. Doctors, Nurses, Paramedics, Flight Surgeons, EMT’s – every brand of medical professional – were everywhere. Hwy 110 became a staging point for ambulances, and police vehicles. Fire trucks had already been moved into position to fight the fires that were proceeding to the left, right, and into the center of the Pentagon. Every time we moved up to try and take people out, the fires would flare-up making it impossible to put non-professionals with no equipment into the building. That said, there were not enough firemen to simultaneously fight the fire and do stretcher duty, so they asked us to hang tight.

After about three hours, the officials started to become concerned about the volunteers. It was hot and most of us had been standing or working in the sun for the entire time. That’s when an unbelievable amount of supplies started to show up. Gallon water jugs, bottled water, Gatorade, soda, snacks -- you name it and it was there. The volunteers started to unload and stage the supplies. Several of us started to build a forward water station for the firemen. Only a few of the bottles were cold, so ice was being brought in to help that situation. We used cardboard boxes to hold the drinks and the ice as best we could, there being no large coolers available. Three of us started carrying the cold water bottles and snacks down to the firefighters that were staged in small teams. We were actually inside the crime scene area (because of all the pieces of the aircraft and building lying on the ground). The firemen were appreciative, as the heat inside the building generated from the 8,500 gallons of jet fuel was, in their words, “unbelievable.” It was reported that at least three of the fireman had to be given IV fluids due to the extreme heat. After about 20 minutes a local policeman came over and made us vacate the water station (inside the crime scene designated area) because it was obvious that we weren’t law enforcement.

For the next three hours we waited to be called up to help bring people out. At about 3PM, we were formed into 12 man teams, reissued gloves and masks, and briefed by authorities on how to do the job. At this point, we were going to enter the Pentagon, but not too far. Because the fire was still burning, the structure was not safe for deeper penetration by non-professionals. The idea was that the firemen would bring the bodies to us and we would carry them out. Within 15 minutes of that briefing, a 3-Star Army Lt General gathered us up. He announced that the Old Guard from Ft Myer was being brought in to replace us within 3 hours. The 12 man litter teams continued to wait in place until the Old Guard arrived.


The People

The mood was somber and filled with frustration, anger, and shock. People wanted to get inside to help those injured or trapped. Those immediately outside the Pentagon were not being told of the scene inside, so there was some perceived jerking around going on. It wasn’t until later that it all fell into place. In the moments where the action slowed, discussions revolved around who was where, what they were doing, and what they saw. I heard a lot of questions: Who was in the office spaces? How many people on the aircraft? What type of plane? Was it an airliner? Do we know or have any word on the dead or injured? How did the aircraft hit? Did it fly in or did it hit the ground first? A thousand more questions waited.

I met some real Americans that day. The following are just a few of the people that I met and short stories about them. No last names:

Chris: He was one of my many litter partners. A young Army SSgt who is the Chef for the Army Chief of Staff. At one point, when we didn’t have masks to wear, he took off his T-shirt and proceeded to tear it up so we could be a little safer.
Christina: She works in Air Force Intel. She was my water station partner. Energetic, just wanted to be a part of the solution. Carried full boxes of water and ice, as well as snacks to the firemen. She also jumped in to organize the snacks so the firemen and the medical people could find what they wanted.
Larry: Air Force 2 Star General. Was the senior officer present on the scene for the Air Force. Larry was coordinating people counts and Air Force volunteer actions on the ground. He was taking several reports and discussing what people had seen and heard. For most of the day, he stood with most of us as a litter team member. Later that evening, I gave him a ride home since the Metro was not stopping at the Pentagon.
The Marine Colonel: As we were standing there in the hot sun, a Marine Colonel had stepped into line to serve as a litter team member. He was wearing Alpha’s with a barracks cover. That means he was dressed up in the green coat with all of his decorations. As he stepped into line, he very carefully took off his coat and cover (hat) and laid it on the concrete median there on Hwy 110. He then took off his tie and rolled up his sleeves. The entire time I was around him, off and on, I didn’t hear him speak a word. Other young Marine Officers were standing around him, giving him reports on what they knew and had heard. The thing that struck me the most was the look on his face. “Resolve” is the word that comes to mind. Calm, Focused Resolve.
Ken: A retired Army Officer who is now serving as part of the Army Personnel Office. He was knocked to the floor in the impact/explosion. The smoke was so thick he had to crawl a ways in his escape. His section was the most heavily hit. He lost several friends and co-workers. Ken was there the entire day, despite his own ordeal. I also dropped him off at his car that night.
Reggy: He is an Army Major. He was my partner for going into the Pentagon. One goes down, your partner brings you out. I fear he had the worse end of that deal.
Sgt Maj: From the Army, he was coordinating the 12 man litter teams. When he got to me, he said, “Sir, are you sure you’re up to this.” I told him I was and gave him a quick “Arugha.” He smiled and we pressed on.
An Army 2 Star General and An Army 1 Star General: In our 3rd or 4th run for cover due to possible follow-on attacks, my Company picked up the bill for a couple of minutes on my cell phone. These gents had not yet got local phone calls out to their wives yet to let them know they were alive. There were also a couple of more calls for them to report to the ops centers. It turned out that the 1 Star was the son of a Four Star Army General that I had served with in Korea in 1985 and 1986.
3 Star Army General: Grayed hair gentleman that would have qualified as a southern gentleman by the way he carried himself. He spoke in a forceful, clear, and compassionate manner. He appeared to be the on-scene commander. He moved about taking reports and apparently directing the military and volunteer actions there on scene. His last words to us after announcing that the Old Guard would relieve us were, “thank you all for being here, and God Bless each of you.”
There were 3 Flag Rank Officers, several O-6’s from all the services, and a multitude of others (civilians, contractors, and others) that made up the volunteer ranks. No one argued. Everyone did whatever was asked without a second thought. There must have been 30 Chaplains and men of the cloth (not just military) there. Every now and then one would be called up for help, but they too were put into a group so they could respond to the individuals or bodies being brought out. In addition to that, I saw several mingling with the entire team, medical, volunteers, and others, ministering to the pain and shock that was there. Civilian nurses, paramedics, and other medical personnel showed up with logos from several of the local hospitals. Some of the woman nurses were older, but you should have seen how they got up and over the concrete Highway barriers with full dresses and skirts on, sometimes on their own, sometimes with assistance. Teamwork was everywhere.


Summary

I’m not sure how to end this, because there is no ending yet. I don’t have any patriotic soundbyte, just a deep love for our country. Only now am I beginning to fully realize what I saw and experienced. Words like “surreal,” “shock,” “disbelief,” “frustration,” and “anger” comes to mind, but I don’t yet have a dominant, overwhelming feeling. Like many of you, my anger quotient is heading to overload. I don’t know or understand the lesson that we were supposed to have learned. I’m not sure I’ll ever understand.

Closer to home (Fredericksburg), we lost two people. One female government employee who is a neighbor and another father who worked in the Pentagon. His daughter goes to school with my sons Mike and Sean. That said, I know that as horrible as it was at the Pentagon, it does not come close to the magnitude of horror, destruction, and death that was experienced in New York. Regarding Pennsylvania, I can only say as a former Marine Aviator, who served on a couple of accident boards, aircraft accidents are never good, but thank God for their heroism.

I still have more questions than answers. I love that our country has come together. I’m sorry that it took this to do it. Thanks to all of you who contributed your sweat on that day, to all of you who gave blood, to all who responded to relief drives, to all those who called us in Washington to ask after our welfare. Thanks for caring. Hug the ones you love. Be there for each other and God Bless America.

Terry Morin, September 2001

Care to explain Terry's version of events Sham? It is stories like Terry's and hundreds of others that make your opinions more than hard to believe. THEY ACTUALLY SAW THE PLANE UNLIKE YOU. :roll:
 

lightninboy

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Good idea for discussion.


Terry Morin is a marine aviator and has therefore been considered an "expert" witness in favor of the official story since he believes the plane hit and ironically thinks what he witnessed disproves the "conspiracy theories" when the opposite is true.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread424192/pg1


So Terry Morin is now a confirmed north of Columbia Pike/Over the Navy Annex witness fatally contradicting the official data and physical damage.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/343512/1/


But even without Morin we still have 10 confirmed and corroborated witness accounts supporting the north side flyover.

http://s3.invisionfree.com/CIT/ar/t137.htm


So no matter how you slice it Morin does not support the official story.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php?t11917.html


FBI Hides 85 Pentagon Videos And 9/11 Truth

http://www.rense.com/general69/91185.htm
 

Tam

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I posted Terry's account in his own words he plainly says it was a Aircraft/ PLANE that flew about 100 feet over his head. Then I looked at another site and guess what I found.


Pentagon Attack Witnesses
When the Pentagon was attacked around 9:49 AM, traffic was stalled on the highway directly to the west of the targeted section. It is probable that hundreds of people witnessed some part of the assault.


Theories that a missile instead of a jetliner attacked the Pentagon on 9/11/01 have been strenuously promoted by Thierry Meyssan and others. But not a single witness claims to have seen a missile, against dozens who identified the attack plane as a large jetliner. A 757 would be almost impossible to confuse with a missile, even at a high speed.

French researcher Eric Bart compiled an extensive body of eyewitness accounts. A theme of the accounts is a sense of disbelief.

e x c e r p t
title: it was a plane bomb
authors: Eric Bart

Among 9/11 oddities : the Pentagon scene.


Witness disbelief

A plane ?

"My brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building. No tail. No wings. No nothing". - Steve DeChiaro
"It just went 'pfff'. It wasn't what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me" - John O'Keefe
"A huge jet. Then it was gone. Buildings don't eat planes. That plane, it just vanished. There should have been parts on the ground. It should have rained parts on my car. The airplane didn't crash. Where are the parts? There was a plane. It didn't go over the building. It went into the building. I want them to find it whole, wedged between floors or something. I want to make it make sense. I want to know why there's this gap in my memory, this gap that makes it seem as though the plane simply became invisible and banked up at the very last minute" - Skarlet
"It was in the air one moment and in the building the next... I still have a hard time believing it" - M.K.

A missile ?

"It was so eerily similar to another experience during the Gulf War - a missile strike that killed a Marine in my unit" - Phillip Thompson
"For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off" - Terry Morin
"A bomb had gone off. I could smell the cordite. I knew explosives had been set off somewhere" - Don Perkal
"Most people knew it was a bomb" - John Bowman
"It smelled like cordite, or gun smoke" - Gilah Goldsmith
"I knew it was a bomb or something" - Mike Slater

site: eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/

As a whole, the body of eyewitness accounts is fairly consistent. It supports both aspects of the official story, such as the approach and crash of a 757-like jetliner, and aspects beyond that story, such as the detonation of a bomb. 9-11 Research analyzed the accounts in Eric Bart's compilation to find strong support for several elements:

e x c e r p t
title: Pentagon Attack Eyewitnesses: Topical Excerpts
authors: Jim Hoffman

large jetliner [The plane that swooped down on the Pentagon was a twin-engine jetliner]
moment of impact [The plane appeared to explode into a huge fireball upon or just before impacting the Pentagon.]
explosive detonation [An explosive detonation, producing a strong concussion and leaving the smell of cordite, accompanied the attack]
other aircraft [A C-130 followed the jetliner up to the crash site and flew away.]
approach details [The plane clipped lamp-posts, banked to the left, and had its flaps up.]

site: 911research.wtc7.net page: 911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/index.html

The eyewitness evidence suggests that there was more to the event than officials have admitted. It is doubtful that the crash of a jetliner would produce a sharp explosive concussion, emit the odor of cordite, or result in explosions seemingly before impact, as several accounts and the pattern of damage to the Pentagon's facade suggest.

On the other hand, this evidence contradicts theories that the attack aircraft was something very different from a 757, such as a missile or Global Hawk drone. Not surprisingly, proponents of such theories have cherry-picked atypical eyewitness accounts while ignoring the larger body of eyewitness evidence, and used excerpts of witness accounts out of context. An example of the latter is the use of Mike Walter's statement about a "cruise missile with wings".


Now talk about Cherry picking and taking what Terry said out of context one would think Terry Morin thought it was a bomb and not a PLANE like he clearly stated in his statement. Then you have the cherry picked Phillip Thompson's eyewitness account.
"It was so eerily similar to another experience during the Gulf War - a missile strike that killed a Marine in my unit" - Phillip Thompson

But this is the full statement

Thompson, Phillip
. . . on my way to work Sept. 11, I saw an American Airlines jet come overhead and slam into the Pentagon, . . .
I was sitting in heavy traffic in the I-395 HOV lanes about 9:45 a.m., directly across from the Navy Annex. I could see the roof of the Pentagon and, in the distance, the Washington Monument.
I heard the scream of a jet engine and, turning to look, saw my driver's side window filled with the fuselage of the doomed airliner. It was flying only a couple of hundred feet off the ground -- I could see the passenger windows glide by. The plane looked as if it were coming in for a landing -- cruising at a shallow angle, wings level, very steady. But, strangely, the landing gear was up and the flaps weren't down.
. . . The fireball that erupted upon impact blossomed skyward, and the blast hit us in a wave. I don't remember hearing a sound.
It was so eerily similar to another experience during the Gulf War . . .
"COMMENTARY: Familiar feelings as the unimaginable unfolds," by Phillip Thompson, Military.com, 9/11/02


I think we all know who has been providing us with the cherry picked news bites. :wink:
 

Tam

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Pentagon Eyewitnesses
Analysis of the Pentagon Attack Eyewitness Accounts
Given the geography of the Pentagon's surroundings, and the traffic jam that brought thousands of cars to a near-standstill on the highways on its west side on the morning of September 11, 2001, hundreds if not thousands of people must have witnessed some aspect of the attack. Accounts of scores of these witnesses were recorded in the form of press interviews and reports on websites.

On this page, we first look at the picture created by the body of eyewitnesses as a whole, and then scrutinize the evidence more critically to address questions of bias and fraud:

Trends in witness data
Questions of witness fraud
Questions of witness contamination

Trends in Witness Data
Anyone who reads the collections of Pentagon witness accounts such as Eric Bart's is likely to be impressed by the broad agreement among witnesses on aspects of the event -- the low-angle approach of a large jetliner followed by a huge explosion and billowing smoke. Some proponents of theories excluding a jetliner have amplified inconsistencies and bizarre details in the accounts, while ignoring their agreement.

Joël v.d. Reijden created the following summary of the frequencies of specific observations in the eyewitness reports described in the compilations by Eric Bart and SomeGuyYouDontKnow33.

about 89 The amount of eye witnesses I gathered who stated they saw an object crash into the Pentagon. The vast majority of the still available ones.
at least 45 The amount of eye witnesses who reported seeing a plane and described it with words like: 'airliner', 'big', 'silver', 'roaring', etc.
at least 23 The amount of eye witnesses who specifically said they saw an American Airlines jet. In all cases a large jet.
at least 22 The amount of witnesses who reported the noise of the plane was very loud to deafening.
at least 17 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a plane running down light poles when crossing the highways.
at least 12 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw and heard the plane increase its throttle at the last seconds.
at least 11 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a C-130H flying 30 seconds behind a jetliner.
at least 5 The amount of eye witnesses who specifically stated they saw the plane had its gear up.

at least 2 The amount of eye witnesses who stated that they saw a small corporate jet, without doing any creative interpretating [sic] of the witness accounts.
at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a missile. What the person thought he heard isn't relevant!
at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a military jet fighter at the time of the crash.
at least 0 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a Global Hawk at the time of the crash.
at least 3 The amount of witnesses who reported the sound of the plane was quite noiseless. (One of them acknowledged it was the shock)
at least 1 The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw the plane had it's gear down. (Indirect, said a wheel hit a pole)
at least 25 The amount of witnesses who have said something that might point to the use of explosives or incendiaries. (White flash, powerful blast waves which blew people through the air, molten glass, burning aluminium, [sic] spreading debris over hundreds of yards back to where the plane came from, including 2 engines, the missing plane itself, etc.)
1
A quick look at this summary indicates overwhelming support by the eyewitnesses that a large jetliner crashed into the Pentagon.

Questions of Witness Fraud
One of the most frequent arguments used to dismiss the body of eyewitness evidence in order to deny that a jetliner attacked the Pentagon is that the majority of witnesses have connections to the military or the press, and therefore their accounts are suspect. However, given the proximity of most of the witnesses to the Pentagon and nearby military-related facilities, it's only natural that most of the witnesses would be involved with the military in some capacity. Several reporters for USA TODAY witnessed the event because offices in the USA TODAY building in Arlington, VA had a view of the Pentagon's west side.

Regardless of the number of witnesses with connections to the military or press, there are a substantial number of witnesses with no apparent connections, and the accounts of both groups are substantially in agreement. If one studies the breakdown of witnesses by observation detail, there is no obvious correlation between observation and witness type.

Even if one assumes that scores of witnesses were coached to lie or for some other reason lied to support the official story, one would have to assume the absurdity that all the other people who happened to glimpse the aircraft due to their being slow-moving traffic on the highways west of the Pentagon -- at least hundreds of people -- saw fit to remain silent about having seen something other than a jetliner.

Questions of Witness Contamination
A more compelling question raised in regard to the veracity of witness reports of a jetliner is the observation that witnesses could have either adjusted their accounts to fit later reports regarding the Pentagon attack, or that their first perceptions were biased by prior reports of a jetliner crashing into the South Tower. However, there is a limit to the degree to which perceptions can be biased by context. With the exception of the two accounts of a commuter jet -- both by witnesses distant from the event, every account that mentions the attack plane is either consistent with or describes specific features of a twin-engine jetliner such as a Boeing 757. But the most common types of aircraft mentioned by the non-jetliner theorists are a missile, a cruise missile, a Global Hawk, a fighter jet, or A-30 type military jet. It is not reasonable to suppose that all of these witnesses could have been influenced by reports to re-interpret the sighting of such an entirely different type of aircraft as a jetliner, for a number of reasons:

No witness reports sighting a military plane or missile, or a plane with features inconsistent with a 757, such as no wings, wings attached to the top or middle of the fuselage, one engine instead of two, or engines attached to the tail section.
Most broadcast media did not begin reporting that a jetliner crashed into the Pentagon until about two hours after the attack. Several of the accounts may have been collected from witnesses before those reports were broadcast or before witnesses heard reports.
Of the eyewitnesses who identified the model of the aircraft, as many named a Boeing 737 or Airbus A-320 as named a Boeing 757, the type of plane that AA 77 was. The media-contamination theory does not explain the naming of a plane that is not a 757 but looks like one.
There is broad agreement among witnesses on specific details of the approach of the aircraft, such as its clipping lampposts, banking to the left, adding power at the last second, and flying with its flaps up. Such a level of observational detail would seem irreconcilable with witnesses grossly altering their recollections about the type of aircraft to fit the official story.
Some of those details, which are not explained by the much less specific news reports, are inconsistent with the types of aircraft proposed by non-jetliner theorists. For example, missiles, cruise missiles, and Global Hawks do not have flaps.
No Pentagon witnesses admit to reinterpreting their original impressions to fit the official narrative. This starkly contrasts with numerous examples from oral histories of emergency responders to the WTC attack admitting to retracting their initial conclusions of explosives and demolition to fit the official gravity collapse explanation.

A LEAST ZERO eyewitnesses saw a missile, and not ONE eyewitness has changed their version of the event since they first gave their account of the event. Now Do you think you have anything that would convince me all there eyewitnesses were programmed to lie and that those that witnesses it from the highway would just keep quiet while the media reported something they knew was incorrect? See this is why your claims don't make sense, to many people witnessed what happen and nobody has come forward to claim they saw something different than what the official story is. A PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON.
 

Whitewing

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Cherrypicking Tam, it's what they do. They're experts at it and that's what it takes to actually believe the dribble they promote.

They ignore mountains of evidence and cling to the weakest of shreds. I'll give you a example of how Shamu's mind works. Somehow convince him that a jetliner struck the Pentagon and he'll then hang his hat on the following comment:

Terry Morin: The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled.

Well, there you have it folks. Controlled. Remote-controlled, of course as there were no videos of the 19 cavemen actually boarding the plane. Mossad, there were 40 of them arrested on 9-11 you know, they did it, they controlled that plane remotely into the Pentagon.....yada yada yada.

Honestly Tam, if I thought this was all a childish, trollish act on the part of these loons, just yanking our chains for the fun of it, I'd have a good laugh and say, yeah, okay, ya got me. Ya fooled me.

But they're as serious as heart attacks and some of them are dangerous....murderously dangerous in their hatred, fear, and paranoia of the government and Jews.
 

Tam

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http://911truth.wetpaint.com/page/Debunking+the+North+of+Citgo+Theory


CIT interviewed Mr. Paik on at least two occasions. On one occasion Craig Ranke drew a flight path and had Mr. Paik sign it. The animated image below was taken from the filming of his testimony by CIT. They named this file Edwardpointsnorth.gif, but note that he is NOT pointing North at all. He points parallel to Columbia Pike visible in the background. That is approximately a 0720 heading corresponding along a path EXACTLY to where the next witness observed the aircraft. Edward Paik’s full testimony can be view at www.thepentacon.com. The next witness was Terry Morin, a Navy Department employee or a Navy Contractor who was located at the South side of the Navy Annex adjacent to the Security Check Point located along the perimeter fence (it is clearly visible in the Google Earth photo). His position is also annotated in the chart below. His position has been misrepresented by CIT with several on line graphics in order to fit with the North of Citgo (NoC) theory. He stated very clearly where he was located and that position is annotated in the chart below. Here is his testimony:
“The Attack I had just reached the elevator in the 5th Wing of BMDO/Federal Office Building (FOB) #2 – call it approximately 9:36 AM. I was already trying to make some sense out of the World Trade Tower attacks having heard about them on the radio. The news was sketchy, but the fact that it was a terrorist attack was already known. I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3 to retrieve my clear lenses. Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted. Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual. I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5. One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. I instantly had a very bad feeling about this but things were happening very quickly. The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB). Everything was shaking and vibrating, including the ground. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities. Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds. The Reaction Many of the FOB people had been looking at the news reports flowing out of the attack on the World Trade Center Towers, going about their normal work routine as they watched. Maybe half or a bit more already knew of the New York attacks. However, within seconds of the impact -- less than a minute after the FOB flyover-- several thousand people started exiting the FOB.”
Source: http://www.coping.org/911/survivor/pentagon.htm

I have plotted his described position below. Also, the graphic from Google Earth shows the various positions depicted in the numbers chart below. So now, we have seen the testimony of Edward Paik and Terry Morin who place the aircraft flying parallel to Columbia Pike. There is no problem with this portion of the testimony as it was stated, without CIT’s spin. There are some problems with CIT’s interpretation and spin of these witnesses testimony.


BTW LB Sham told us it was a Missile that hit the Pentagon what do you think when all the eyewitnesses/mass media claim it was an AIRPLANE?
 

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Whitewing said:
Cherrypicking Tam, it's what they do. They're experts at it and that's what it takes to actually believe the dribble they promote.

They ignore mountains of evidence and cling to the weakest of shreds. I'll give you a example of how Shamu's mind works. Somehow convince him that a jetliner struck the Pentagon and he'll then hang his hat on the following comment:

Terry Morin: The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled.

Well, there you have it folks. Controlled. Remote-controlled, of course as there were no videos of the 19 cavemen actually boarding the plane. Mossad, there were 40 of them arrested on 9-11 you know, they did it, they controlled that plane remotely into the Pentagon.....yada yada yada.

Honestly Tam, if I thought this was all a childish, trollish act on the part of these loons, just yanking our chains for the fun of it, I'd have a good laugh and say, yeah, okay, ya got me. Ya fooled me.

But they're as serious as heart attacks and some of them are dangerous....murderously dangerous in their hatred, fear, and paranoia of the government and Jews.

All you can do is try stop the damage loons like this can spread. You will never convince them but as long as you can stop them from recruiting people with their cherry picked "FACT" :roll: the less damage they can do.
 

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So everybody who isn't a conspiracy theorist believes the official 9/11 story is true and the government and media are holy.

Where can we find the official 9/11 story?
 

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lightninboy said:
So everybody who isn't a conspiracy theorist believes the official 9/11 story is true and the government and media are holy.

Where can we find the official 9/11 story?

LB, would you not agree that it weakens your arguments to constantly feel the need to put words in the mouths of others?

Absolutely NO ONE here has said the government and media are holy...NO ONE.

Remember: A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.


As for your other question, I'd say the best accounting of the 9/11 story I've read was the 9/11 Commission Report. Have you read it in its entirety? No, it's not perfect, but it's generally complete and unbiased from what I read.
 

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9-11 Commission Report.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

So you think everything in the 9-11 Commission Report is 100% accurate.

What if I could find one thing wrong in it?

Ha! That should blow your "Everything in the 9-11 Commission Report is 100% accurate" argument out of the water!
 

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lightninboy said:
9-11 Commission Report.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

So you think everything in the 9-11 Commission Report is 100% accurate.

What if I could find one thing wrong in it?

Ha! That should blow your "Everything in the 9-11 Commission Report is 100% accurate" argument out of the water!

Where did anyone say it was 100% accurate. What WW said was
As for your other question, I'd say the best accounting of the 9/11 story I've read was the 9/11 Commission Report. Have you read it in its entirety? No, it's not perfect, but it's generally complete and unbiased from what I read.

CHerry picking and putting words in other peoples mouths is not the way to make your arguments. :wink:
 

lightninboy

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Tam said:
Where did anyone say it was 100% accurate. What WW said was
As for your other question, I'd say the best accounting of the 9/11 story I've read was the 9/11 Commission Report. Have you read it in its entirety? No, it's not perfect, but it's generally complete and unbiased from what I read.
You're willing to settle for a 9-11 Commission Report which you KNOW is not accurate??!!

It's not unbiased.
 

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lightninboy said:
Tam said:
Where did anyone say it was 100% accurate. What WW said was
As for your other question, I'd say the best accounting of the 9/11 story I've read was the 9/11 Commission Report. Have you read it in its entirety? No, it's not perfect, but it's generally complete and unbiased from what I read.
You're willing to settle for a 9-11 Commission Report which you KNOW is not accurate??!!

It's not unbiased.

Just stop putting words in peoples mouths. :wink:
 

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lightninboy said:
9-11 Commission Report.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

So you think everything in the 9-11 Commission Report is 100% accurate.

What if I could find one thing wrong in it?

Ha! That should blow your "Everything in the 9-11 Commission Report is 100% accurate" argument out of the water!

You really can't help yourself, can you. LB, you do realize, don't you, that it's intellecutally dishonest to keep saying that others said XY, or Z when they clearly didn't say those things?

Constantly displaying intellectual dishonesty in a discussion results in others not taking you seriously or soon coming to believe that you're a troll and a liar.
 

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Tam said:
lightninboy said:
Tam said:
Where did anyone say it was 100% accurate. What WW said was
You're willing to settle for a 9-11 Commission Report which you KNOW is not accurate??!!

It's not unbiased.

Just stop putting words in peoples mouths. :wink:

Thanks Tam.

I'm beginning to wonder if this trait is something that commonly runs amongst these guys. Look at LB. He can hardly respond to a post without making a straw man argument of some sort, grossly misstating what the other guy said, or just flat going off on a tangent.

Then there's Shamu. Ask him for a link to the source of XYZ assertion and he'll link you to a youtube video where the guy says ABC. How many times have I asked Shamu if he's even watched the link he posts? What I'm afraid is happening is that he has watched it but doesn't comprehend what's being said.

Odd couple those two.
 

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shaumei said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFz7gLz7CVk


And here comes the youtube evidence. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No evidence of a plane :roll:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

Just where do you think the wheels, seats, parts of the airplane body, black boxes, and the DNA from the flight passengers came from Shamie?

And please explain the EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS of the event that all say it was an AIRPLANE. and please don't cherry pick out statements and take them out of context like your youtube buddies do. :wink:
 

lightninboy

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Whitewing said:
Constantly displaying intellectual dishonesty in a discussion results in others not taking you seriously or soon coming to believe that you're a troll and a liar.
What's a troll? Isn't what I post what Political Bull is for? Or is Ranchers.net officially pro-MSM and pro-Beltway?
 

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In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Since staying on topic seems to be a challenge for you, I thought that perhaps you were just a troll. If not, then I'm left between believing you're not serious or that you're a liar.

Which should I choose?
 

lightninboy

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Tam said:
Just where do you think the wheels, seats, parts of the airplane body, black boxes, and the DNA from the flight passengers came from Shamie?
I recall seeing something in a link I posted that there were some airplane parts in the wreckage but they didn’t match the model of the plane and Terry said he thought it was an American Airlines 737 but American Airlines had no 737s and Mossad must have painted a used plane to look like an American Airlines plane.

Tam said:
And please explain the EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS of the event that all say it was an AIRPLANE. and please don't cherry pick out statements and take them out of context like your youtube buddies do. :wink:
Aren’t there EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS who didn’t see an AIRPLANE?
 

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