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Shamie has some explainin' to do

lightninboy

Well-known member
"9/11 -- An Inside Job,"
By Paul Andrew Mitchell
(3/18/2010)

An A-3 Skywarrior hit just after an AGM missile was fired
from under its port wing, to soften an entrance hole for
the fuselage. A key debris photo shows 2 planar fuselage
sections, one of which has a telltale re-fueling line
along its horizontal length.

Very few jet aircraft have rectangular fuselages;
and, of those only one has an external re-fueling line.
All photos of A-3s that we have seen do show this external
re-fueling line on every A-3 we have examined.

That A-3 was reportedly modified at a private airfield
in Loveland, Colorado, using different crews to do
different retrofits, e.g. avionics, weapons, remote-control,
transponder beacon, etc.

It had been purchased as part of a fleet of A-3s now
owned by Raytheon, a major DOD contractor.

One USAF pilot I know told me that Captain Gerald F. DeConto
was on the telephone to Gordon England, Secretary of the Navy,
requesting authorization to engage the incoming, because
the Pentagon's automatic fire control system had been fooled
by a "friendly" transponder beacon.

As the highest ranking officer in the Naval Command Center,
DeConto and his staff must have been tracking that incoming
on their in-house radar systems, and realized that the
incoming jet had a friendly transponder, because the
fire control system had NOT activated itself.

While England kept Captain DeConto on the telephone,
evidently stalling him, DeConto and his staff were killed
by the missile warhead and subsequent impact of the A-3.

The Boeing 757 seen by many eyewitnesses was timed to fly over
the Pentagon at precisely the moment of the A-3's impact.
It landed at National, into the waiting arms of 94
ground crew who had infiltrated Dulles and National airports.

They were later deported for falsifying Social Security
applications and violating immigration laws:

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/gwbush/eastman/doj.accomplishments.090902.htm
(search for "94 workers")

We suspect they were all Mossad (Israeli secret police).

Wayne Madsen also recently reported that a Boeing 747
departed from JFK for Tel Aviv at 4:11 pm on 9/11/2001,
full of passengers. We estimate that about 400 people
were on that flight, most likely to receive heroes'
welcomes after landing in Israel, despite the FAA's
grounding order which was not lifted until several
days later.

AA11 was most probably hijacked by Mossad officer
Daniel C. Lewin. AA11's first flight deviation
turned it into a new heading straight for Rome, NY,
host to Griffiss AFB and NEADS -- the Northeast
Air Defense Sector responsible for tracking all
aircraft in the airspace above 500,000 square MILES
of Northeastern USA. This is what we learned
about the tracking technology at NEADS on that day:

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/gwbush/davis/griffiss.htm#remains

While we were assisting the U.S. Coast Guard with this
investigation, we requested the U.S. Military to issue
an APB (All Points Bulletin) for the immediate apprehension
of Daniel C. Lewin on suspicion of aircraft piracy on the
morning of 9/11/2001.

All that Griffiss interceptors needed to do was to get airborne,
and AA11 would have flown right into them. If they had
scrambled SOP instead and accelerated to about Mach 2, they
would have screamed by AA11's windshield at a combined
velocity of about 33 miles per minute (~600 + ~1,400 mph).

Air National Guard claims they have the proven capability
to intercept anything above anywhere in the USA in NINE MINUTES.

AA11's first reported deviation was about 8:14 a.m., so
add 10-15 minutes to estimate actual moment of intercept --
we calculate that moment would have occurred in VERY close
proximity to Albany, New York.

According to flight paths published by the Federal government,
the jet that hit the Pentagon flew due South and almost
bisected the distance between the Pentagon and Andrews AFB:
that distance is about 11-12 miles, so the attack jet could not
have been much more than 6 miles away from the fighter wing
stationed at Andrews.

F-14 and F-15 interceptors can accelerate to max velocity
in less than 60 seconds after takeoff, by activating
their after-burners.

Moreover, Dick Cheney and Norman Mineta were in their command
bunker, while a radar operator kept them informed of the
forward progress of that attack jet. "It's 50 miles out;
it's 30 miles out; it's 20 miles out; it's 10 miles out.
Do the orders still stand?" the operator asked.

"Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard
anything to the contrary?" Cheney barked back.

So, they were tracking that attack jet all that time.

We have more, much more. Does this make your blood boil?
Mine is STILL boiling, now 8 1/2 years later!
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
Paul Andrew Mitchell:

The most significant, in our opinion, is this high-res photo
of what we believe is the port engine, after it sheared off
at the pylon and bounced off the exterior Pentagon wall,
coming to rest next to a Nissan 300-ZX and Jeep Cherokee SUV.

The vehicle on the left is a burned-out Jeep Cherokee, which
was black (or dark green) before burning; to the left of the Jeep was a
Nissan 300-ZX which was white before burning.

The latter geometry is a much better, almost perfect fit
with the localized "finger prints" clearly visible on
the damaged diesel generator.

Now, continue on a straight line from the damaged left
end of the diesel generator, to columns 16 and 17.

There is also photographic evidence that the primary explosion
blew the aft half of the jet away from the Pentagon.

Here's someone's attempt to fit a different jet, the S-3B Viking, to this evidence:

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/gwbush/pentagon/majic-pent1.jpg

Here's another attempt with the Global Hawk:

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/gwbush/pentagon/GlobalHawk.jpg

A-3 Skywarriors were routinely retrofitted
with Pratt & Whitney JT8D turbofan engines,
because they were found to be more efficient,
more readily available, and more easily
maintained, e.g. by military and civilian
mechanics had more experience maintaining
that engine.

Given the incoming angle of attack, the
starboard engine and starboard wing tip
hit at almost exactly the same moment
-- approximately 45-55 degrees off the
building line.

The high velocity resulted in high
kinetic energy. Combined with leverage,
that kinetic energy resulted in only
superficial damage where the wing tip
hit the second floor, but the starboard
engine almost completely disintegrated
the three bearing columns to the left
of column 18, which the engine just missed.

After so much kinetic energy was absorbed
by the starboard engine's collision with
the exterior facade and bearing columns,
the port engine followed with much less
kinetic energy: it appears to have sheared
off at the pylon and bounced off the exterior
facade of the Pentagon, coming to rest
outside the Pentagon where it was photographed
next to a Nissan 300-ZX and Jeep Cherokee,
both badly burned out after the fires were
extinguished.

We think the collision with the diesel generator
was not anticipated: either a remote controller
(human) or forward-looking radar detected the
obstacle in that generator, but the terminal
velocity of the jet was too high to make an
adequate correction: the impact with that
generator vaulted the right wing upwards,
causing the jet to roll to the port side,
in a counter-clockwise direction.

This is plain action-reaction in physics.

Also, an attempt to avoid that collision by the
guidance system may have commenced that roll
before the impact with the generator.

Either way, the starboard wing tip hit at
the second floor, and the port wing tip hit at
the first floor, because of the slight roll
to port side at the moment of impact.

15, 16 and 17 clearly disintegrated and were dislodged towards the left, in line with the incoming angle of attack, particularly at ground level; 18 is still vertical, indicating only superficial damage there but no structural relocation of column 18.

Just align all columns in a rectangular grid, separated by windows. The tops of those damaged columns were not "shifted to the right", because those tops were still mostly aligned with the bearing walls separating the windows on the floors above them. The disintegration of columns 15, 16 and 17 must be viewed BEFORE foam was sprayed on both.

WE CONCLUDE THAT A PRATT & WHITNEY JT8D DID HIT SQUARELY AT 16 AND 17, JUST MISSING 18; AND, ITS IMMENSE KINETIC ENERGY CAUSED IT TO DISINTEGRATE MUCH MORE THAN THE PORT ENGINE.

There is only one thing that would cause steel-reinforced concrete walls to disintegrate like that: penetration of a significant mass, moving at a high incoming velocity.

I have also concluded that no F-14, F-15 or F-16 was involved.

If there were no hijackers, then who stopped the pilots from
controlling the planes? ...

Answer: Dov Zakheim -- who came to the Defense Department from a company that makes combat efficient remote control equipment

Laura Knight-Jadczyk's theory about the purpose of this kind
of attack is explained fully in her excellent essay.

Summarizing: a comparison of the utter and complete
destruction of the twin WTC and WTC7 towers,
with the isolated and relatively limited damage to the
Pentagon, suggests that the Pentagon crash was a
"self-inflicted alibi" designed from the start to be
limited to a pin-point bull's eye, in order to make
the rest of the world THINK that the overall strategy
TRIED to destroy the Pentagon too, but failed.

The truth, on the other hand, was quite the opposite:
no attempt was ever made to destroy the entire Pentagon.
That would have required all personnel to be "absent"
that day, and such an enormous absence would have been
too obvious, as if it was not also too obvious at the
WTC too, e.g. Zim Navigational. (Isn't Zim now implicated
in the UAE port swindle? Hmmmm.)

And, given the TOP SECRET matters which ONI are
usually investigating, it would not be too difficult
to disguise the impact on ONI's new offices as "unexpected
collateral damage," when the opposite is much more likely,
namely, ONI KNEW IN ADVANCE that a modified jet
was being planned to launch from a U.S. aircraft carrier,
as part of the overall 9/11 run-up. So, ONI was
selected as the prime target at the Pentagon,
instead of Rumsfeld's office on the other side.

Curiously, one of the versions of frame 1 from the Pentagon
cctv camera is quite unique for having a pixel resolution
that is markedly superior to all the other cctv frames
that we have examined closely, with software which
permits unlimited pixel zooming. The text that accompanies
that hi-res frame 1 suggests that ONI's offices were being
used to store very sensitive intelligence about UFOs.
My guess is that this intelligence concerned the UFO
cover-up which the Pentagon has been sponsoring
for many years.

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=791.0
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
Dec 19, 2010
"The Last Second: A Forensic Analysis of the Pentagon Murder Weapon's Final Approach"
by Paul Andrew Mitchell
[ W O R K I N G D R A F T #1 ]

This analysis relies heavily upon the attached diagram.

lastsecond1.gif


The letter "P" represents the Pentagon's exterior wall,
at the point of impact on the morning of 9/11/2001.

The letter "A" represents an Aircraft that crashed into
the Pentagon at point "P".

Four different points in time are represented by the
circled numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4.

The symbols A1, A2, A3, A4 and A5 represent
points at which A's final trajectory intersects with
the shock wave from an intense blast at epicenter "P".

An air-to-ground missile ("AGM") is mounted on a
missile pylon on the underside of A's port wing.

The object of this exercise is to determine
what would have been the optimal point in time
for the Aircraft to launch the AGM at target "P".

Assume that A is incoming at more than 300 knots
(300 nautical miles per hour), probably faster.

Point "1" is a theoretical construct in which
the Aircraft hits point "P" without launching the AGM.

Point "2" is a more realistic construct in which
the AGM has been launched and hits the Pentagon
before the Aircraft's nose arrives at point "P", and
the Aircraft arrives to meet a very high pressure
shock wave -- high enough to cause destructive,
disintegrating damage to that Aircraft.

Point "3" is another realistic construct in which
the AGM has been launched and hits the Pentagon
long enough before the Aircraft arrives to attenuate
the shock wave sufficiently to cause only minor
turbulence through which the Aircraft must pass.

Point "4" represents the Aircraft with the AGM
still mounted under its port-side wing, both of
which are traveling at a terminal velocity
in excess of 300 knots. Here, the Aircraft is
about one second away from hitting point "P".

The problem we wish to address now is this:
at what exact point in time should the AGM be
launched from the Aircraft, to satisfy all of the
following constraints?

(a) if the AGM is launched too soon, the
Pentagon's automatic fire control system
will have enough time to detect the incoming
and activate its own systems of defense,
e.g. anti-aircraft guns shoot a wall of lead
that will destroy the AGM when it hits that wall;

(b) if the AGM is launched too late, the
Aircraft hits the Pentagon before the missile
can soften an entrance hole through which
the fuselage can travel deeper into the Pentagon's
interior office spaces; think of a mosquito hitting
a car windshield at 70 mph;

(c) if the AGM is launched and its warhead
detonates so as to soften an entrance hole
for the Aircraft's fuselage to pass through,
the launch timing may be late enough for the shock wave
to meet the incoming Aircraft when that shock wave
is very intense, causing very destructive, disintegrating
damages to the Aircraft;

(d) ideally, the AGM should be launched
and its warhead detonated with precise timing that
causes the shock wave to attenuate enough
that it causes only minor turbulence through which
the incoming Aircraft must pass, but without
suffering any destructive/disintegrating damages
before the Aircraft actually reaches point "P".


For some of the following reasons, we think that (c) above
is the most probable scenario.

Put yourself at the controls of a remote computer monitor
and system, which displays the view from an on-board
video camera mounted in the Aircraft's cockpit.

You may be seated in another nearby aircraft,
or you may be seated in an office on the other
side of the Pentagon.

You have rehearsed this moment numerous times.

You must "pull the trigger" launching the AGM
at precisely the right moment, in order to satisfy
all of the above constraints.

You pull the trigger, but what you have not anticipated
are the delays, or latencies, that exist in all of the
intervening electronic steps that must occur perfectly
and in perfect sequence.

There are delays in the telecommunications pathways
connecting you and the AGM's launch mechanism.

You have failed to take those latencies fully into account
during all of your rehearsals.

In order to "err" on the side of greatest confidence
in your abilities, you avoid launching the AGM too early,
and wait until the very last moment.

You pull the trigger, but the latencies give the
incoming Aircraft just a few more milliseconds
to reach the Pentagon at a point where the
resulting blast wave is still very intense.

That shock wave is so intense, it severs the
Aircraft's fuselage amidship, blowing the aft half
away from the Pentagon and onto the grass
perimeter.

The Pentagon's closed circuit television camera ("cctv")
records evidence of the Aircraft's instant disintegration.

The latter 2 photos are at a relatively high resolution,
so Pentagon personnel are promptly ordered to
re-sample all of the 5 cctv frames before they are
released to the public and to the major media
like CNN and the BBC.

Also, the one frame which does show any part
of the incoming Aircraft, is deliberately altered
by "air brushing" a purple-like color over the
fuselage that is forward of the visible tail section,
and nowhere else in that one key photo…

... and certainly not where the nose and front one-third
fuselage of a Boeing 757 would have appeared in that photo,
if tail sections were aligned and superimposed.

That particular purple-like color does not appear at the same
pixel locations in ANY of the preceding frames, nor in any
of the subsequent frames of the full cctv frame set.

Those re-sampled photos have a much lower pixel resolution,
which makes it intentionally impossible to verify forensic details
that are readily apparent in the high resolution versions.

Such deliberate alterations of evidence of a murder weapon
is a serious FELONY Federal offense, to be construed as
aiding and abetting premeditated murder in the first degree and/or
murder-for-hire. Such a crime is on the order of hindering
the apprehension of a suspect who is guilty of a homicide.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oldright/message/16713
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
What Eyewitnesses Do We Have of the Pentagon Explosion/Fire?

Jim Hoffman's Web Site:

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html#witnesses

French researcher Eric Bart posted on his website an extensive compilation of eyewitness accounts of the September 11th attack.

WHO are the 90 EYE witnesses to planes near the Pentagon?

The highest possible witness reliability score would be:
1+ Doesn't work for USG or Main Stream Media AKA MSM (no reason to lie)
1+ Has full, real name/identity
1+ Full account
1+ Was NEAR the scene
1+ Has technical background
__________________________
5+ star rating is highest possible

After careful scrutiny of the accounts below you will be shocked to find that out of 90 witnesses ONLY 37 ACTUALLY SAY THEY SAW A PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON!

Now it gets much weirder...out of the witnesses above how many have RED HERRINGS that disqualify them?

RED HERRINGS
No Poles Struck: CIT's investigation of flight path, expert witnesses in LaGasse, Chadwick et al; planted broke poles etc.
USG/MSM Chief Suspects in the False Flag Attacks: can anyone a part of these bureaucracies tell the truth?
No Ground Strike: obvious undamaged lawn; Moran others
No Trailer Hit: Bell, Singleton
No Helicopter Hit: No helo on helipad
No Wounded on Pallets: didn't happen
No Yellow-Orange Fireball: Pentagon surveillance video shows RED fireball

This leaves only the 5--that's right--1-2-3-4-5---plane-hit-Pentagon witnesses below without evidence of already lying via RED HERRINGS or having MICC-TT/MSM motives to lie:

WHAT THEY SAW:
1. Elgas sees weird SMOKE rings around fuselage before FIREBALL
2. Peterson sees plane DISAPPEAR
3. Patterson sees SMALL 8-12 PAX sized plane
4. Skarlet sees HELICOPTERS hit Pentagon, then changes mind it was a fixed-wing plane but it DISAPPEARS
5. Thompson, C. Sees RED fireball

Just 5 honest witnesses to something striking the Pentagon!

Elgas, Penny
Peterson, Christine
Patterson, Steve
Skarlet: http://meanlouise.com/?p=567
Thompson, Carla

2 of them sound like hysterical women. Leaving us just one man with an A-3D SkyWarrior sized plane, one who sees it disappearing followed by one seeing a RED fireball.

How many witnesses statements support a fly-over?

54. All those who didn't actually see a plane hit the Pentagon!

How many saw only an explosion at the Pentagon?

What color was the explosion?

Only one witness saw red flames that match Pentagon surveillance video.

There was a traffic jam on Highway 27 which was only a FEW HUNDRED FEET AWAY from the Pentagon's West side wall. There must have been at least 200 cars with people inside them who saw what happened at the Pentagon but have NOT COME FORWARD.

On I-395 south of the Pentagon traffic was flowing according to what we see in the Doubletree Marriott video which means at least 100 more possible witnesses who HAVE NOT COME FORWARD.

WHERE are all the witnesses?

What are they afraid of, that the USG will murder them?

They're right.

It would be an awfully low altitude to drop a missile that might just plow into the ground--and very close to the Pentagon wall ahead to pull up in time and FLY-OVER--but it is a possibility if the perps wanted their expensively modified A-3D back. Or the missile was to PRECEDE the plane crash to bust the wall as legendary researcher Jack White proposes so the things they wanted destroyed like the financial records of $1.2 TRILLION of DoD corruption were eliminated. A missile on a wing launch rail could have its motor fired immediately without a delay to clear the bomb bay.

Otherwise, there is a time lag from the release of the missile from the plane's bomb bay to motor ignition.

Another conspiratologist theory is that a cruise missile (actually an unmanned airplane) flew itself all the way into the Pentagon. Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM) ie; it’s not going after enemy ships striking a concrete target SIDEWAYS.

The significance of the TLAM blast is that its jet engine fuel BURNS INTO A GOLD YELLOW FIREBALL and the blast goes UPWARD and quickly turns into gray-black smoke. Now compare to the Pentagon surveillance video stills.

Notice how FAST all the fuel burns up--even though it burns RED and can't be JET FUEL. It sure does look like a small explosion/impact of either a smaller-than-a-757 airplane like an A-3D SkyWarrior or a missile fired from it or a cruise missile flying in all-the-way. The BOOM!, fireball and the rapid wuff! of fast-climbing smoke column that rapidly dissipates does not look like 10, 276 gallons of 757 jet fuel that would explode first in a huge YELLOW orange fireball and then burn for a long while with a THICK, DARK BLACK smoke column.

Notice how FAST all the fuel burns up--even though it burns RED and can't be JET FUEL. It sure does look like a small explosion/impact of either a smaller-than-a-757 airplane like an A-3D SkyWarrior or a missile fired from it or a cruise missile flying in all-the-way. The BOOM!, fireball and the rapid wuff! of fast-climbing smoke column that rapidly dissipates does not look like 10, 276 gallons of 757 jet fuel that would explode first in a huge YELLOW orange fireball and then burn for a long while with a THICK, DARK BLACK smoke column.

Let's look at the cruise missile/UAV like Global Hawk theory.

First off, these planes are simply too SMALL to con anyone into thinking they were 757 American Airliners. If ANY of the witnesses are telling the truth, they are disqualified for the flight observations preceding the Pentagon area.

They also lack very strong wing boxes to cut out ANY of the Pentagon wall; only a circular hole from the impact and explosion of their structures and any on-board fuel and explosives would result.

The 757 center wing-box area is far too large to account for the gouge holes in the Pentagon, and even the wings outside the engines would have been strong enough to at least damage if not gouge the Pentagon walls far more than the orange marks I added to Jack White's picture.

However, the rugged A-3D would be perfect to account for the damage seen in the Pentagon and is agile and strong enough to make high-G maneuvers to get into position to strike the Pentagon.

IMHO, if an A-3D or even a 757 had hit 5 light-poles as offered by the USG, they would have already been a flaming wreckage and would have exploded IN FRONT OF THE PENTAGON laying a flaming fireball all over the lawn.

Of course, this DID NOT happen so the poles DID NOT get toppled by any planes, meaning ALL of the witnesses who said so are MISTAKEN OR DELIBERATE LIARS. Again, the central problem is the CIT researchers have conclusively proven the plane approached NORTH of the CITGO gas station and struck the Pentagon more squarely than the slanted angle depicted in the trace of the planted lamp-poles.
image233t.jpg


http://www.combatreform.org/911pentagonrealitycheck.htm
 

Steve

Well-known member
hopalong said:
dang it was hot and humid today made worse by my tractor caught on fire due to a fuel leak :(

are you sure it was a fuel leak?

sometimes when the government takes out a farmer they make it look like a tractor accident.. maybe they are using the same technique on ranchers..

maybe it was micro petrochemical liquids sprayed on your manifold.. ?

hopy have the local crime lab check for "fractional distillate of petroleum" as they have been know to use that in extreme cases when regular gasoline isn't readily available.
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
There Was No Missile At the Pentagon; But the Plane Did Not Hit

Craig Ranke CIT
Mar 2 2009

Missiles are very noticeable.

There is zero evidence for a missile and this type of speculation with no evidence to back it up is a big distraction from the hard evidence that we DO have proving a deception.

That's the point of the article.

Focus on evidence, not speculation.

There is no evidence for a small plane of any sort and we have released many follow up presentations so please view ALL of the evidence before passing judgment.

observation 1) there was a cone-shaped pattern of damage in wedge one that occured on 9/11/01., extending from Ring E inward to Ring D and ring C.

observation 2) post-9/11 computer simulations of a plane impact 'informed us' that a plane would cause a cone shaped damage pattern consistent with what was observed -- Purdue University 'recreated' a simulation of plane-into-Pentagon 'after' the fact

obs 3) there is little physical evidence of a plane impact, in terms of identificable AA77 marked parts, debris, luggage, seats, letters, etc -- despite the fact that a plane was observed in the area.

obs 4) there is little or NO physical evidence of a missile of any type striking Pentagon

obs 5) the immediate reaction of Pentagon survivors was that bombs had gone off -- shockwaves, cordite smell, blast, location.

How do you create a "plane like" damage pattern in Pentagon without an actual plane impact? Easy -- you SIMULATE it first, then engineer and place the the incendiary bombs, second.

How do you place bombs in a secure facility like the Pentagon? Do it during wedge one Renovation, when the area is highly secured, and empty of regular personnel.

Who renovated Wedge One? AMEC and other corporations. I think you are not terribly far from a plausible scenario.

No one doubts that there was a plane flying NEAR the Pentagon on 9/11/01. But the CAUSE of the damage seems to be carefullly placed incendiary explosives that MIMICKED to a high degree what a later Purdue simulation would re-create as a plane strike, which could be endlessly replayed to show us just how it 'happened'

CIT is on the right path. As for who the murderers are, you'll need to subpoena the contractors who worked on Wedge One during renovation up to 9/11/01 AM. Note that the renovation was scheduled to be complete by 9/10/01.

On September 11, 2001 immediately after hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon, the Pentagon Renovation Team (Pen-Ren) and AMEC the defense contractor turned their full attention to supporting rescue efforts, making the area safe, and the reconstruction of the aircraft impact site.

To help make this happen, Pen-Ren and AMEC turned to ACM Services, Incorporated.

http://www.acmservices.com/recent-projects

Of course something made the damage but there is no evidence that it was a plane, missile, or anything that flew into the building.

Since we know the M.O. of this operation at the WTC was to covertly cause the destruction with pre-planted explosives this is a a logical conclusion at the Pentagon in light of the body of independent evidence available.

Hint: government controlled and supplied information is not independent verifiable evidence.

And if you really believe the "landing gear" photographed inside the building after 9/11 got there from a plane impact then you have no choice but to accept a 757 impact because it matches a 757 as does the combustion case and wheel rim.

No doubt it was already inside the building before the attack and the few tiny scraps of un-charred fuselage sections laying around for photo-ops could have been planted at any point just prior to or during the attack.

Do you really think they just got lucky that no parts that could be definitively traced to an A3 skywarrior or Global Hawk could be identified?

There is not one single eyewitness who saw the heavy white smoke trail (official version) or a visible vapor trail (your version). Not one singe eyewitness saw a light pole through a windshield. The light poles and taxi were staged, the generator trailer was staged, the parking lot videos were photoshopped, and living eyewitnesses place an aircraft Over the Naval Annex and far north of the official flight path.

How is it that none of you people can see that the facts that the parking lot video still frames were leaked way back in 2002, which prevented the 9-11 perps from photoshopping the lousy quality videos any further, and thus the videos released in 2006 by FOIA lawsuit hurt the 9-11 perps badly. The videos are worthless as evidence supporting the 9-11 Pentagon OFFICIAL STORY because they were under the control of the primary suspect in the 9-11 Attack on America.

Why can't you see that is likely the exact objective of the leaker of the security video still frames with their dates and times off by 32 hours? Maybe somebody risked their life to leak the still frames and ending the photoshopping of false evidence. Or maybe somebody lost their life to leak the still frames. That would be a true patriot wouldn't it?

The 2002 leaked still frames were adequate evidence that the video(s) existed despite Defense Department denial after denial after denial. But the still frames were out in the public knowledge and stored on thousands of hard drives and therefore unalterable from their original forms with the date/time off by 32 hours. Thus the still frames were adequate for a FOIA judge in 2006 to make his decision and enforcement and the videos were released by the Defense Department; unaltered further between 2002 and 2006. The 9-11 perps were screwed by a leaker.

An anonymous person leaked the still frames.

Bronco Bingham and Attorney Hodes requested the video release by FOIA and Judicial Watch also requested the video release by FOIA. It appears that Judicial Watch was the first to receive them in 2006.

May 16, 2006: Pentagon Releases Two Videos of Pentagon Crash, but Quality Is Poor
For the first time, the US Department of Defense officially releases video footage of the Pentagon attack. Two security cameras outside the building recorded the footage the morning of 9/11.

Remember, the rings between the E & C ring are not separated by walls on the bottom two floors.
It's nothing but a maze of columns.
You can tell by counting the rows of windows.

First-hand witness accounts whose actual location and true POV have been confirmed are evidence.
Unconfirmed out of context media quotes are hearsay.
That is what we have shown.
When forensically analyzed, the witnesses prove the plane did not hit.
AND that there was only one plane.

DoD controlled photographs taken days after the event do not amount to independent evidence for anything.
There isn't a reason on earth to think that any of these few parts were there as the result of a plane crash.

This is really just another testament as to how effective the missile disinfo has been.
People are emotionally connected to it.
And it doesn't help that the people who attacked it most are the 757 impact conspiracy theorist disinfo crowd like Arabesque, Victoria Ashley, John Albanese, and other incorrigible attack-bloggers.
But none of them have provided a shred of evidence let alone proof.
There is no more "debate" when it comes to the Pentagon attack.
The plane was on the north side.....end of story.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/1305217/2/
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
Hey, shaumei, I'll tell you who I think we have to agree with on what happened at the Pentagon on 9-11: the CIT/Pentacon theory that there was no missile, no plane crash, only planted explosives and planted lightpoles.

There may have been a missile and a plane crash but we have no definite proof of it and we know there were planted explosives anyway.

You might disagree with me, but I think you'd be hardpressed to defend your theory definitely. The CIT/Pentacon theory places all of the blame for the unanswered questions on the conspirators, where it rightfully ought to be placed, instead of being placed for the conspiracy theorists to go crazy to figure out what happened.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
No not much damage, some wrinkled sheet metal and burnt paint, wiring pretty well gone. had an extinguisher in the truck 50 feet or so away, so managed to limit a lot of damage.
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
There seems to be no doubt the 757 AA77 did fly over the Pentagon at blast time but was higher than the Pentagon roof, maybe even 200 to 400 feet high. If a 757 had hit the Pentagon it would have made more damage and left genuine crash debris.

There seems to be no doubt that blast time was at 9:37 am instead of at 9:32 am. The 9:37 am time should be verified enough and the 9:32 am clocks could have been set back in the night by the conspirators. The exact time of the blast perhaps doesn’t make much difference anyway.
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
A Tomahawk missile coming in by itself south of Citgo at 52 degrees and felling the lightpoles and hitting the Pentagon?

Perhaps, but what’s the proof of it?


A Tomahawk missile coming in south of Citgo at 52 degrees and felling the lightpoles and hitting the Pentagon with an A-3 Skywarrior on the same trajectory flying into the Pentagon right behind it?

No way. How would you time it right? Who has admitted to seeing a plane south of Citgo?


A Tomahawk missile coming in south of Citgo at 52 degrees and felling the lightpoles and hitting the Pentagon with an A-3 Skywarrior on the same trajectory flying over the Pentagon right before it and not coming back?

No way. How would you time it right? Who has admitted to seeing a plane south of Citgo?


A Tomahawk missile coming in south of Citgo at 52 degrees and felling the lightpoles and hitting the Pentagon with an A-3 Skywarrior on the same trajectory flying over the Pentagon right before it and coming back five minutes later north of Citgo and crashing into the Pentagon head-on?

No way. How would you time it right? Who has admitted to seeing a plane south of Citgo? Who has admitted to seeing a plane north of Citgo crash into the Pentagon?


An A-3 Skywarrior coming in south of Citgo at 52 degrees and missing the lightpoles and hitting the Pentagon with an AGM on the same trajectory right before crashing into the Pentagon?

Perhaps, but what’s the proof of it?


An A-3 Skywarrior coming in north of Citgo and hitting the Pentagon head-on just after a Tomahawk missile has felled the lightpoles and hit the Pentagon on a 52-degrees south-of-Citgo trajectory?

No way. How would you time it right?


An A-3 Skywarrior coming in north of Citgo and hitting the Pentagon with an AGM on the 52-degrees south-of-Citgo trajectory right before crashing into the Pentagon head-on on the north-of-Citgo head-on trajectory?

No way. We can rule that one out.


The AA77 757 went north of Citgo as low as 100 feet or as high as 400 feet and flew over the Pentagon as the fire and smoke puffed up and the thermite went off. Fire and smoke puffed up and thermite went off at least until the roof came down. The lightpoles were staged.

We have to accept that theory until we have definite proof of the Pentagon being hit by a Tomahawk missile or the Pentagon being hit by an A-3 Skywarrior with an AGM missile. Even if more weapons of destruction were used than just thermite, we know thermite was used. So, why couldn’t all of the destruction been caused by thermite by the “renovation team”?
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
Some thought bombs had exploded at Pentagon; Witness accounts raise questions
Apr 12 2008

* John Thurman, a U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, was in a second floor office just above where the Pentagon was hit. He has described the attack: "To me it didn't seem like a plane." Although he was aware that aircraft had hit the World Trade Center, he has recalled: "[T]o me, it seemed like it was a bomb. Being in the military, I have been around grenade, artillery explosions. It was a two-part explosion to me. … It seemed like that there was a percussion blast that blew me kind of backwards in my cubicle to the side. And then it seemed as if a massive explosion went off at the same time." He described what happened next: "It just felt like this rolling earthquake going on underneath me. And in reflection, I realize that it was the plane that was actually underneath me. But at the time, again, I had thought that perhaps the terrorists had surreptitiously gotten construction workers to come in and place explosives, and they had perhaps commanded--detonated them synchronous with what was going on in New York."

* Lieutenant Nancy McKeown ran a small meteorological unit in the Navy Command Center on the first floor of the Pentagon's D Ring--an area that was mostly destroyed when the building was hit. She described the attack: "[T]he building started to vibrate and things started to fall. And it initially felt like an earthquake. As the, as time progressed, the shaking of the building got violent. The noises got louder and louder." She added, "It sounded like a series of explosions going off." A colleague yelled out, and she "yelled back, bomb." When asked about the incident, "At that point you thought a bomb had gone off in the Pentagon?" McKeown replied: "That's correct. It sounded like a series of bombs exploding, similar to like firecrackers when you light them and you just get a series going off. But they got very loud, very extensive."

* Army Major Craig Collier and his colleagues were in their second floor office, about 200 feet from where the Pentagon was hit. Collier described the moment of the attack: "[T]he building jolted and we heard a muffled boom, then a rumble. … All of my peers in the area are experienced combat arms officers, and we quickly agreed that it sounded and felt like a bomb."

Considering these accounts, it is perhaps interesting to note the following description of the physical effects of the attack, which was given in the U.S. Department of Defense's book Pentagon 9/11: "The Jet A fuel atomized and quickly combusted, causing explosive bursts as the plane hurtled into the building. A detonation 150 feet inside the building resulted from a 'fuel-air' explosion after the Jet A tanks disintegrated on impact. Here, as elsewhere, there was no uniform pattern of death and destruction. The vagaries of the fuel-air explosions and freakish blast effects meant deaths occurred randomly inside the Pentagon, with the occupants of seemingly more secure interior offices sometimes suffering worse fates than those nearer the outside wall."

Just another crock of BS from the Pentagon. Where did all the oxygen required inside the Pentagon 1st floor area for fuel/air explosions come from, when the huge initial explosion allegedly shown in the security videos would have supposedly sucked much of the oxygen out of the building through the alleged holes and expended it upward with the majority of the fuel? Where is the evidence for these alleged fuel/air explosions among the unmelted computer equipment and unburned wood and paper debris inside the first floor and the Drive outside the Exit Hole? There was no aircraft crash and no Jet-A fuel/air explosions at the Pentagon. It was all simulated with planted normal explosives causing the destruction and deaths. Those Pentagon personnel were deliberately murdered by their own leaders.

In the words of Kevin Schaeffer:
“"A coordinated attack!" I thought. I stood for a moment in a frozen shock. My mind raced. It must have been a bomb planted by one of the many construction workers or technical contractors who still mingled about, placing the final touches on the new wedge.”

If there were in fact sequential incendiary or thermobaric bombs planted inside the Pentagon, as an "enhancing" adjunct to a plane impact, or perhaps to substitute for plane impact entirely, then, who would have had access to the E, D, C rings of Wedge One?

Shall we questions the main contractor, AMEC, who did work there?
Note that AMEC also had performed contractor work on WTC7 floors 1-5 and 27-47.

It would be useful to know exactly who went in and out of controlled areas in Pentagon Wedge One in days, weeks prior to 9/11/01.

Note that the presence of cordite-smelling bombs in the Pentagon does NOT disprove a plane impact, or a plane flyover -- it merely cements the case that there was "on the ground help" to make the Pentagon damage and murders happen.

A case for premeditated murder should be brought forward by an Arlington VA federal grand jury -- plane or no plane.

MSNBC Sept. 28 2001:
"The Pentagon is massive, larger than three Empire State Buildings, the face on each of the five sides slightly longer than three football fields, the wedge construction allowed engineers to remake the building one, easy-to-close-off section at a time. Contractors could simply move workers, seal off a wedge, and install new features like reinforced steel columns and two-inch-thick blast-resistant windows... AMEC Construction, won the general contract for Wedge 1, he plunged into the job eagerly, anxious to explore every square inch of the physical structure.”

People involved with the "controlled cleanup":

Tully, Peter
(Tully Construction, subcontractor responsible for most excavation and trucking operations at the WTC. Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc., Phoenix, Md, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995. Controlled Demolition is specialised in implosions of big towers, like i.e. the Landmark Hotel Tower in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.)

Mason, Sir Peter
(Chief Executive of AMEC, involved in renovation of the wedge of the Pentagon, which was later hit. Hired for Controlled Clean-up of both Pentagon and WTC.
Among Clients: SAIC and Telcordia/Robert W. Lucky, member of ANSER Institute for Homeland Security since 1999)

Taylor, Ross
(Chief Executive Officer of the Bovis Lend Lease Real Estate Solutions. Bovis Lend was involved in the controlled cleanup of the WTC rubble and renovation of Hotel Millennium Hilton, NYC until May 2003. On October 30, 2001 Bovis announced their division of Bovis Lend Lease Pharmaceutical)

Tully Construction
When contacted by the American Free Press (AFPN) and asked, if they ever had seen concrete pulverized as it was in the WTC, they said: "No-never". "Tully said, that there were hot spots where he observed 'literally molten steel'...Everything that was above grade -above the 6th and 7th floor -disintegrated...it was like an explosion" (AFPN/08/26/02)
"We had 75 trucks leaving a day during the first few days," says Tully.

Tully Construction of Flushing, NY is the only American-owned company who was hired for the "cleanup of Sep 11th".
Earlier this year Tully received a contract by the MTA/New York City Transit Subway System in a joint venture with J. Pegno of Flushing, N.Y., the project's general contractor.

Summary from 9/11 truth:
“We would like to have public disclosure of the reasons for a $150 million pre-9/11 Pentagon renovation by AMEC Plc. of the same section of the Pentagon Wedge 1 which was later officially attacked.
AMEC was later also responsible for the removal of the rubble at Ground Zero and the Pentagon.
AMEC's auditor is KPMG. In June 2002, they hired former FBI IT chief Robert J. Chiaradio as managing director and lead advisor on homeland security.
Furthermore another cleanup company named Tully retained Controlled Demolition Inc., Phoenix, MD, who had been involved once in the demolition of the bombed Murrah Building in Oklahoma in 1995.
Controlled Demolition is specialized in implosions of big towers, like the Landmark Hotel Tower in Las Vegas or the Columbus Homes Housing Projects in Newark, New Jersey.
In May 2001, Controlled Demolition Inc. was involved in a controlled demolition of 2 Twin Gas Storage Towers in Queens, New York.”

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/317953.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=92675&mesg_id=95823

AMEC pentagon renovation contract pre-911 $150,000,000
AMEC awarded no-bid $200,000,000 contract to rebuild the pentagon post 9-11
AMEC awarded no-bid $500,000,000 contract to rebuild iraq's power grid (Jan 2004)
AMEC awarded no-bid $1,000,000,000 contract to rebuild iraqs water and sewage infrastructure (March 2004 )

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/205468/1/
 

Larrry

Well-known member
Tam said:
Eyewitness Account of Pentagon Attack
By Terry Morin
An eye-witness account of the aircraft impact into the pentagon and subsequent rescue efforts...written by a former USMC aviator working as a contractor at the BMDO offices at the old Navy Annex.

Friends, Family, and Fellow Americans,
As many of you know, two SPARTANs were in locations on Tuesday to witness the attack on the Pentagon. Many people have asked me to share the events of that day. So, while fresh, here are my memories of that fateful day.


The Attack

I had just reached the elevator in the 5th Wing of BMDO/Federal Office Building (FOB) #2 – call it approximately 9:36 AM. I was already trying to make some sense out of the World Trade Tower attacks having heard about them on the radio. The news was sketchy, but the fact that it was a terrorist attack was already known. I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3 to retrieve my clear lenses.

Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted. Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual. I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5.

One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. I instantly had a very bad feeling about this but things were happening very quickly.

The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB). Everything was shaking and vibrating, including the ground. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities.

Within seconds the planecleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled.

As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft.

I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.


The Reaction

Many of the FOB people had been looking at the news reports flowing out of the attack on the World Trade Center Towers, going about their normal work routine as they watched. Maybe half or a bit more already knew of the New York attacks. However, within seconds of the impact -- less than a minute after the FOB flyover -- several thousand people started exiting the FOB.

People poured through the vehicle security checkpoint, crossing Columbia Pike into the FOB parking lot. As people were leaving the building in a very rapid manner, emergency vehicles, police, fire engines and ambulances were racing to the scene. They began arriving within 3 to 5 minutes of the impact.

Several military officers were standing in the middle of Columbia Pike, essentially directing traffic and holding the pedestrians back so that emergency vehicles could get through. The looks on their faces were somewhere between shock, terror, horror, and confusion. Many were crying. Many were stunned. Some were yelling to clear the area, move away from the buildings. Concern was that we might be the next target. Some were indicating that people should go home, but most just stared in silence at the burning West Wing of the Pentagon. Some cars were leaving the compound as well as the parking lot, but very few. Many tried to make phone calls to family or to home offices to say they were safe, but within minutes of the attack the sheer volume of traffic clobbered cell phones and other lines of communication. Those that got through needed patience and persistence.

As groups of friends and co-workers gathered to look on, immediate declarations of anger, frustration, dismay came out. We stood in the parking lot for approximately 15 minutes when a call came out for help. What must have been a hundred people moved in the direction of the Pentagon together and without hesitation. I saw Vicki Aardema, Chris Avvisato, John Schessler, and former SPARTAN Jen Metzler all walking down to the scene. As we got closer and crossed over the now empty roads, the devastation could be seen through the smoke and flames. It was just unbelievable. The police started to turn people away from the site. FBI agents were already there and had declared the whole area a crime scene. Declaring a crime scene prevents people from getting in that are not police, fire or medical type personnel. I was allowed to proceed because I witnessed the event. Ultimately, I believe that only Jen Metzler and myself made it to the scene, but I didn’t run into her for the rest of the day.


Rescue and Recovery

After I shared a couple of things that I had seen to a local law enforcement official -- what I will call a perimeter policeman -- he hustled me off to an FBI agent named Mike. He took what I would call a ¾ statement, then told me to go to the Command Post (CP) and wait. Someone else would want to discuss what I saw. At that point I met a young African American who was standing next to Mike, the FBI agent. He had streaks of blood on his T-shirt and was wearing bandages on both arms. Apparently he had been standing in the Control Tower for the Helo Pad that was approximately 200 feet to the North of the actual impact point. He still looked as though he was in shock, but indicated that he had witnessed the impact. I then confirmed that the aircraft had been flown directly into the Pentagon without hitting the ground first or skipping into the building. As he and I were walking in the direction of the CP, medical supplies started to arrive. A van pulled up and they asked for volunteers to unload. Items in the van seemed to have been loaded very hurriedly: individual packs of 4x4 gauze, irrigation fluid, IV and oxygen equipment, wooden stretchers. Medical folks were trying to get a handle on it. Get the stuff out and get it organized. Nurses were cracking the organizational whip: IV stuff here, fluid there, get those litters out of the way. About that time, we got the first of 4 or 5 calls to take cover. Reports had been received of other aircraft coming in for what could be a subsequent attack. At about the same time the upper floors on the Pentagon caved in and collapsed. I didn’t see it, but many in the crowd acknowledged the event.

We picked up the supplies and moved them under a concrete overpass with a small tunnel of about 100 feet or so of coverage. I saw a couple of injured folks, but they appeared to be in good hands – injuries did not seem from a distance to be life threatening. After a couple of the follow-on attack scares, many of us were formed up into 4-man stretcher teams. Approximately 30 teams were formed. We were moved up to the scene and given rubber gloves. We were taken in several directions, but finally landed about 300 feet west of the Helo Pad out on Hwy 110. They had set up the medical people under the trees, putting the three levels of care in a line. Dead and dying were on the North end, triage and serious in the middle, walking wounded on the South end. Doctors, Nurses, Paramedics, Flight Surgeons, EMT’s – every brand of medical professional – were everywhere. Hwy 110 became a staging point for ambulances, and police vehicles. Fire trucks had already been moved into position to fight the fires that were proceeding to the left, right, and into the center of the Pentagon. Every time we moved up to try and take people out, the fires would flare-up making it impossible to put non-professionals with no equipment into the building. That said, there were not enough firemen to simultaneously fight the fire and do stretcher duty, so they asked us to hang tight.

After about three hours, the officials started to become concerned about the volunteers. It was hot and most of us had been standing or working in the sun for the entire time. That’s when an unbelievable amount of supplies started to show up. Gallon water jugs, bottled water, Gatorade, soda, snacks -- you name it and it was there. The volunteers started to unload and stage the supplies. Several of us started to build a forward water station for the firemen. Only a few of the bottles were cold, so ice was being brought in to help that situation. We used cardboard boxes to hold the drinks and the ice as best we could, there being no large coolers available. Three of us started carrying the cold water bottles and snacks down to the firefighters that were staged in small teams. We were actually inside the crime scene area (because of all the pieces of the aircraft and building lying on the ground). The firemen were appreciative, as the heat inside the building generated from the 8,500 gallons of jet fuel was, in their words, “unbelievable.” It was reported that at least three of the fireman had to be given IV fluids due to the extreme heat. After about 20 minutes a local policeman came over and made us vacate the water station (inside the crime scene designated area) because it was obvious that we weren’t law enforcement.

For the next three hours we waited to be called up to help bring people out. At about 3PM, we were formed into 12 man teams, reissued gloves and masks, and briefed by authorities on how to do the job. At this point, we were going to enter the Pentagon, but not too far. Because the fire was still burning, the structure was not safe for deeper penetration by non-professionals. The idea was that the firemen would bring the bodies to us and we would carry them out. Within 15 minutes of that briefing, a 3-Star Army Lt General gathered us up. He announced that the Old Guard from Ft Myer was being brought in to replace us within 3 hours. The 12 man litter teams continued to wait in place until the Old Guard arrived.


The People

The mood was somber and filled with frustration, anger, and shock. People wanted to get inside to help those injured or trapped. Those immediately outside the Pentagon were not being told of the scene inside, so there was some perceived jerking around going on. It wasn’t until later that it all fell into place. In the moments where the action slowed, discussions revolved around who was where, what they were doing, and what they saw. I heard a lot of questions: Who was in the office spaces? How many people on the aircraft? What type of plane? Was it an airliner? Do we know or have any word on the dead or injured? How did the aircraft hit? Did it fly in or did it hit the ground first? A thousand more questions waited.

I met some real Americans that day. The following are just a few of the people that I met and short stories about them. No last names:

Chris: He was one of my many litter partners. A young Army SSgt who is the Chef for the Army Chief of Staff. At one point, when we didn’t have masks to wear, he took off his T-shirt and proceeded to tear it up so we could be a little safer.
Christina: She works in Air Force Intel. She was my water station partner. Energetic, just wanted to be a part of the solution. Carried full boxes of water and ice, as well as snacks to the firemen. She also jumped in to organize the snacks so the firemen and the medical people could find what they wanted.
Larry: Air Force 2 Star General. Was the senior officer present on the scene for the Air Force. Larry was coordinating people counts and Air Force volunteer actions on the ground. He was taking several reports and discussing what people had seen and heard. For most of the day, he stood with most of us as a litter team member. Later that evening, I gave him a ride home since the Metro was not stopping at the Pentagon.
The Marine Colonel: As we were standing there in the hot sun, a Marine Colonel had stepped into line to serve as a litter team member. He was wearing Alpha’s with a barracks cover. That means he was dressed up in the green coat with all of his decorations. As he stepped into line, he very carefully took off his coat and cover (hat) and laid it on the concrete median there on Hwy 110. He then took off his tie and rolled up his sleeves. The entire time I was around him, off and on, I didn’t hear him speak a word. Other young Marine Officers were standing around him, giving him reports on what they knew and had heard. The thing that struck me the most was the look on his face. “Resolve” is the word that comes to mind. Calm, Focused Resolve.
Ken: A retired Army Officer who is now serving as part of the Army Personnel Office. He was knocked to the floor in the impact/explosion. The smoke was so thick he had to crawl a ways in his escape. His section was the most heavily hit. He lost several friends and co-workers. Ken was there the entire day, despite his own ordeal. I also dropped him off at his car that night.
Reggy: He is an Army Major. He was my partner for going into the Pentagon. One goes down, your partner brings you out. I fear he had the worse end of that deal.
Sgt Maj: From the Army, he was coordinating the 12 man litter teams. When he got to me, he said, “Sir, are you sure you’re up to this.” I told him I was and gave him a quick “Arugha.” He smiled and we pressed on.
An Army 2 Star General and An Army 1 Star General: In our 3rd or 4th run for cover due to possible follow-on attacks, my Company picked up the bill for a couple of minutes on my cell phone. These gents had not yet got local phone calls out to their wives yet to let them know they were alive. There were also a couple of more calls for them to report to the ops centers. It turned out that the 1 Star was the son of a Four Star Army General that I had served with in Korea in 1985 and 1986.
3 Star Army General: Grayed hair gentleman that would have qualified as a southern gentleman by the way he carried himself. He spoke in a forceful, clear, and compassionate manner. He appeared to be the on-scene commander. He moved about taking reports and apparently directing the military and volunteer actions there on scene. His last words to us after announcing that the Old Guard would relieve us were, “thank you all for being here, and God Bless each of you.”
There were 3 Flag Rank Officers, several O-6’s from all the services, and a multitude of others (civilians, contractors, and others) that made up the volunteer ranks. No one argued. Everyone did whatever was asked without a second thought. There must have been 30 Chaplains and men of the cloth (not just military) there. Every now and then one would be called up for help, but they too were put into a group so they could respond to the individuals or bodies being brought out. In addition to that, I saw several mingling with the entire team, medical, volunteers, and others, ministering to the pain and shock that was there. Civilian nurses, paramedics, and other medical personnel showed up with logos from several of the local hospitals. Some of the woman nurses were older, but you should have seen how they got up and over the concrete Highway barriers with full dresses and skirts on, sometimes on their own, sometimes with assistance. Teamwork was everywhere.


Summary

I’m not sure how to end this, because there is no ending yet. I don’t have any patriotic soundbyte, just a deep love for our country. Only now am I beginning to fully realize what I saw and experienced. Words like “surreal,” “shock,” “disbelief,” “frustration,” and “anger” comes to mind, but I don’t yet have a dominant, overwhelming feeling. Like many of you, my anger quotient is heading to overload. I don’t know or understand the lesson that we were supposed to have learned. I’m not sure I’ll ever understand.

Closer to home (Fredericksburg), we lost two people. One female government employee who is a neighbor and another father who worked in the Pentagon. His daughter goes to school with my sons Mike and Sean. That said, I know that as horrible as it was at the Pentagon, it does not come close to the magnitude of horror, destruction, and death that was experienced in New York. Regarding Pennsylvania, I can only say as a former Marine Aviator, who served on a couple of accident boards, aircraft accidents are never good, but thank God for their heroism.

I still have more questions than answers. I love that our country has come together. I’m sorry that it took this to do it. Thanks to all of you who contributed your sweat on that day, to all of you who gave blood, to all who responded to relief drives, to all those who called us in Washington to ask after our welfare. Thanks for caring. Hug the ones you love. Be there for each other and God Bless America.

Terry Morin, September 2001

Care to explain Terry's version of events Sham? It is stories like Terry's and hundreds of others that make your opinions more than hard to believe. THEY ACTUALLY SAW THE PLANE UNLIKE YOU. :roll:
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
Craig Ranke CIT
Jan 31 2008

Of the known alleged light pole witnesses Stephen McGraw, Joel Sucherman, Chad Brooks, and Mike Walter have all personally confirmed with us that they did NOT see the light poles get hit and only deduced it from seeing them on the road.

Arabesque has the most comprehensive list of alleged light pole witnesses with a total of 22. Scroll down to the part that says " Witnesses described the plane hitting lamp poles and objects ". (he says "and objects" because a few describe things that were not hit at all.)

CIT has pointed out errors to him in the past that he has refused to correct and we have always maintained that there is only ONE previously published account where the witness is quoted specifically claiming that she literally "saw" the light poles get hit by the plane.

Here is the one account. Wanda Ramey. She is the ONE known witness who is directly quoted as having "seen" the plane hit the poles. She is or was a Pentagon police officer just like Chad Brooks. Chad had also said in the past that he saw the plane hit the poles. When we interviewed him he clarified and said that he didn't actually see it happen but simply saw the poles on the ground after the fact. No doubt Wanda is also deducing this and simply honestly embellishing her account just like Chad did. Since she is the ONLY one to specifically make this claim and since we have directly spoken with so many others who specifically say that they didn't see the poles get hit it is a fair assumption on our part to make. We are still trying to get a hold of her for direct clarification. Nonetheless she is the only one.

It's clear this is NOT evidence strong enough to counter the rock solid north of the Citgo testimony that is independently corroborated 6 times and directly refuted by NOBODY proving the plane did not hit the poles.

We believe pole 1 was simply laying on the highway in the shoulder and was moved after the cab was in position and the 3 "Feds" pulled up on the scene. If look closely you can see the pole WAS moved at one point. There is a scratch in the asphalt.

It more than likely was removed in the months before 9/11. We have a photo from May 2000 if I remember correctly that shows the poles in position on the bridge etc. No one would remember or be able to say something about NIGHT TIME road construction and pole removal.

Did Lloyd drive the cab into position with the windshield already broken?

Perhaps or perhaps it was towed or perhaps his handler drove it.

The fact that the pole was moved is actually rather indicting because it's clear that the pole, glass, and lamp piece are all laid out to look like they landed in that exact position.

The pole could have been unloaded from a truck, or even pulled from the top of those big fat HOV lane guardrails for all we know. We can only hypothesize but there are plenty of possibilities.

The cab could have been towed with the tow truck carrying the pole or they may have even busted out the windshield right there.

All of that is 100% possible and quite plausible. A tow truck and a cab would not be conspicuous at all and they had complete control of the scene so they could have easily busted out a windshield.

The last thing that ANYONE would think as the Pentagon burned in front of them would be.....

"hmmmmm.....it sure looks like they are staging that scene with the light pole over there."

And EVEN IF they DID think that and called the feds about it what do you think would have happened?

Clearly nothing.

It doesn't matter how conspicuous they were.

The light poles were not a focus of the events of that chaotic day in the news and most average people don't even know that light poles were allegedly hit at all.

The very fact that details about the poles were kept out of all official reports is rather telling as well.

If it would be so obvious that they were staging the scene low on the ground on the opposite side of all the traffic while the Pentagon burned then why are there ZERO statements from anyone who witnessed a pole spear the cab OR the pole inside the cab after it came to a stop?

There is NO WAY that a pole could have speared his windshield after being hit by a 90 ton Boeing and not damage the hood at all.

That is physical evidence that his story is untrue.

The official story simply does not add up.

Lets just assume it did hit the windowscreen, why was there no damage when they removed it??

Also if a plane at 500mph knocked a lightpole off the ground into the car windowscreen, I'm pretty sure it would have done more than spear the windowscreen.

It would have probably skewered the car like a kebab!

Those who support the light pole official story please humor me and help me try to understand Lloyd's alleged thinking that morning.

Your vehicle is impaled on the highway.
Clearly an event has taken place and authorities are going to have to be notified (at the minimum).
You're not going to get back into your vehicle and drive away.
The Pentagon has just exploded.

Why do you hurry to remove the pole from your vehicle that is inoperable?

You know you're not driving away from the scene, so if you're afraid, running would be the most logical move. Why do you hurry and remove the pole before anyone, including the police, can see it?

Don't you think you might need a picture or a police report supporting your claims for insurance purposes?

You should consider the position of light pole 1. You should ask yourself how it could have been knocked to the left of the flight path. The wings of a 757 are sloped back. The right wing should have hit the inside corner of pole 1 and knocked it outward, or to the right. Photographic evidence shows the pole pointing to the left, but it could not have been knocked to the left. The wing, the same thing that would have knocked it to the right, would have blocked it from traveling left.

The main piece NEVER HAD rivets in it.

Rivet holes, but no rivets. How does that work?

Why would they plant a part with no rivets? Just got sloppy, I guess. Maybe they didn't expect anybody to get a close up or hi-res picture of it.

Not ripped out. Those two ripped holes you see are there because the metal itself is ripped in that same area. There were never any rivets there. Rivets leave indentations when they're inserted.

The point is that there is no way that all of that debris was planted after the explosion, yet before anyone could see it wasn't there. How do you think all of the debris got there if not from the crash/explosion?

Actually, I think some of it came from the explosion. I think there were planted parts that were blown out from the explosion. Then, there were other pieces that were probably brought out after the explosion, like that fuselage piece with no rivets.

There were only a few pieces of aircraft allegedly found out on the lawn. Most of that debris is blown away from the construction trailers and Pentagon exterior and interior. This piece was definitely planted and never riveted to an aircraft frame.
norivets.jpg

Each rivet must be pulled through rivet hole for fuselage removal
fig8.gif

There are no rivets in any of those holes. There never were any rivets through any of those rivet holes.

The westerly wind seems to be blowing the smoke away from the helipad, so how could a light aluminum fuselage skin fly hundreds of feet against the wind to land way over in front of the helipad? The wind should have blown it like a sheet of paper in the opposite direction. Must be Bush Regime magic in action once again.

Nah, more likely the FBI or Secret Service just took it out of their secret evidence van and planted it on the lawn in front of the helipad.

After of course they doctored it real good with a screwdriver and a good pair of pliers.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/69071/1/
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
By Jim Condit, Jr.
10-10-2001

The Ruling Elite of the Permanent Revolution (Zionism in alliance with Anglo-Freemasonry) wants to whip Americans into a frenzy to a) send their sons and daughters over the sands of the Mid-east to fight Moslems - the Big Media has been telling us since 9-11 to expect HEAVY CASUALTIES; b) support the use of tactical (?) nuclear weapons against Moslem countries so as to both knock out all of Israel's potential threats AND to force the Moslem countries into the Free Trade / Usury system of the Ruling Elite's hoped-for coming New World Order government; c) give up one constitutional freedom after another to the new Office of Homeland Security. (George Orwell would love that one - but he would have probably called it the MINISTRY of Homeland Security.)

Now let's look at the Anglo-Masonic side of the Permanent Revolution. What was British Prime Minister Tony Blair doing over here sitting next to Laura Bush during President G.W. Bush's address to Congress? What is Tony Blair doing in the middle of everything about this "anti-terrorist" campaign? What is he doing leading the call for declaring war? Apparently the Permanent Revolution Elites trust Fabian Tony Blair to articulate their program better and quicker than G.W. Bush is doing - Bush -- who was, and maybe is, dragging his feet under reported conflicting advice from the Richard Perle faction (Nuke em) and the Colin Powell faction (caution).

What is the goal of the Anglo-Freemasonry section of the Permanent Revolution? There is enough oil in the Caspian Sea Basin to run the world at current oil consumption levels for 500 years. To get that oil out, the Permanent Revolution Elites need cooperating governments in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Almost all the Moslem countries are against usury. Most of them are against Free Trade. The destruction of the WTC in New York City has opened the way to begin a Permanent War in the Mideast to achieve all of the above goals.

WHO DECLARED WAR? Have you noticed that the Big Media declared war from DAY ONE - and announced that it would be at least a Ten Year War (!). In the meantime, the US Government has not declared war at all. We just (again) are sending massive force against sovereign nations. I am not suggesting that those who made the attacks on the World Trade Center should not be retaliated against if they can be found - but who was it? The evidence produced by the US and British governments that the guy hiding in the cave, Bin Laden, did the evil deed -- is basically nothing at this point. They say they won’t produce anything for the public, as it's classified. Who did do it?

BUT WAIT. I don’t know --- but when the entire Media-Government complex is telling us we must go waving flags and smiling into World War III - then it seems to me that ALL possibilities must be examined.

Of course, not one of the hirelings on talk radio or working for the Ruling Elites news media has thought to ask any of these questions. But BOY have they been all over the tapes of emergency calls at the scene of the WTC crash and meltdowns - the tapes of victims that are supposed to inflame us into rushing headlong into World War III willingly without thinking.

Two years ago an astute friend on the west coast told me that the worldwide Zionist lobby had been trying to figure out how to draw Iran and Syria into something so that they could attack and weaken those countries like we are continually attacking the people of Iraq under the guise of opposing Saddam. And everyday you will hear the Media Mouthpieces preparing the American mind for the "reality" that we will start dealing with other countries after we’re done with Afghanistan.

The 9-11 disasters were MADE TO ORDER for the Ruling Elite - as soon as it happened the World War III plan kicked in, as well as the end-the-Constitution plan. All the moron-hirelings on the mass media began screaming, "It's a New Day." - "It's a new world." - "We must change our thinking." - "We must be unified." - This is all code talk for - STOP THINKING – WE’ll do it for you! Just get real emotionally hyped up and follow our Leaders into World War III and into an end to Constitutional freedoms. This is psychological warfare at it's best. The Twin Towers crash/disappearance was meant to shock, paralyze and CHANGE the thinking of Americans. Millions are now ready to go to World War III - the perpetual war for perpetual peace - are now ready to nuke whole cities of totally innocent Moslems who had NOTHING to do with the 9-11 attacks - even if Bin Laden was behind it.

We need not fear the few Moslems who are willing to commit suicide to get back at the USA for backing their persecutors (Israeli government) for the past 53 years - we need to fear the dual-loyalist Jews and Anglo-Masons who are running our media, our money system, and our government right here in the USA. The dual-loyalists reserve their primary loyalty for the Zionist state of Israel in some cases, and for their hoped-for New World Order government in others - or both. Those of us loyal to the USA need to throw off these Super Criminals, re-adjust Mideast policy to protect the helpless civilians of all nations, but to be fair to all the factions. Only in this way, I fear, can we avert the coming World War III, which, according to all the information I have on my desk, will get out of hand.

http://www.rense.com/general15/whoweneedfear.htm
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
15 Dec 2009
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.

The FDR is one of two "black boxes" in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77's 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.

There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77's black boxes.

The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.

While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.

Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB's own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.

Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77's black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, "I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box ..."

popmech911.jpg


Kilsheimer's story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, "The 9/11 Conspiracies," where he claims "I tripped over something; it was the black box."

In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.

As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.

Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.

http://www.abeldanger.net/2010/01/flight-77-cockpit-door-never-opened.html#more
 

lightninboy

Well-known member
April 4, 2010

Cantor Fitzgerald/CO2e.com/eSpeed held the patent on the unique software which would be used in the future carbon emissions trading which will result in trillions of dollars of trades. The Carbon Disclosure Project (CDP) located at 10 Downing Street is currently estimated at $64 trillion.

Carlton Bartels, CEO of Cantor’s CO2e.com, invented and held the patent on the computer-based system for simulated automated carbon trading. Bartels was operating this simulated game and it is alleged that his simulation administrator codes were stolen. The game was hacked into which took the game from a simulation to a live game.

Were Marsh & McLennan, Cantor Fitzgerald/CO2e.com/eSpeed and Aon Corp destroyed to eliminate the competition in a future multi-trillion dollar carbon trading market?

The impact area of American Airlines Flight 11 in the North Tower was the offices of Marsh & McLennan.

The offices above Marsh & McLennan were primarily Cantor Fitzgerald/CO2e.com/eSpeed. Cantor Fitzgerald was cut off from the rest of the building by the impact and suffered the greatest single loss by any company on 9/11. 658 of its employees died in the north WTC tower. [Business Week, 9/11/2006]

Marsh & McLennan loses 295 employees & 60 contractors.

In the South Tower, United Airlines Flight 175 impacts a zone mostly occupied by Fuji Bank. The Aon Corporation offices are above the impact area and they are also cut off. 175 employees of Aon Corp. die in the attacks.

There were 2605 deaths in 2 towers that day. Marsh & McLennan, Cantor Fitzgerald/CO2e.com/eSpeed and Aon Corp lost a total of 1153 people. That is just over 44% of the total deaths—a staggering proportion.

The employees of these 3 companies constituted a small fraction of the total number of individuals in the two towers but accounted for 44% of the deaths.

http://www.abeldanger.net/2010/04/specific-companies-in-world-trade.html#more
 

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