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Should the POTUS salute military personnel ?

A

Anonymous

Guest
Is it Proper for a President to Render a Military Hand Salute?

By Bob Price


When President Obama awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor to a rare living recipient of that award last year (Army Staff Sgt. Salvatore Giunta), a friend contacted me and stated he was quite offended that President Obama did not salute Sgt. Giunta. I went back and looked at the video and sure enough, he did not. In fact, he hugged Sgt. Giunta. I went back and looked at previous presidents who awarded the Medal of Honor and sure enough, they did not salute the recipients either. Hmmm...

For those who are not aware, a military member who has received the Medal of Honor rates a salute from any other military member regardles of rank. If an army private has received our nation's highest honor, a general must salute him (the medal actually). So why are these presidents, as Commander in Chief (CINC) not saluting the Medal recipients? Even President Dwight David Eisenhower (a retired 5 star general) did not salute the members of the military to whom he presented the medal.

The answer is quite simple. The President of the United States is a civilian. He is not a member of the US Military and is therefore not entitled to salute. The military salute is a privilege earned by honorable service in the military. It is also a privilege that can be taken away. Military prisoners are stripped of the privilege of saluting. While the President is Constitutionally the CINC, he is not a member of the military.

One of the core principles of our country is our military is under civilian control. The President is that civilian authority over the military as is the Secretary of Defense and the Secretaries of the branches of the armed services.

In 2007, Northwestern University History Professor Emeritus Garry Willis wrote in the New York Times, "The glorification of the president as a war leader is registered in numerous and substantial executive aggrandizements; but it is symbolized in other ways that, while small in themselves, dispose the citizenry to accept those aggrandizements. We are reminded, for instance, of the expanded commander in chief status every time a modern president gets off the White House helicopter and returns the salute of marines."

"We used to take pride in civilian leadership of the military under the Constitution, a principle that George Washington embraced when he avoided military symbols at Mount Vernon. We are not led -- or were not in the past -- by caudillos,"
Willis continued.

In many countries this is not the case. The leader of the country is actually a uniformed member of the military. In some cases even a military dictator. Even the Queen of England is a uniformed member of the military, albeit a figurative position.



So, all that said, where does the tradition of saluting by the president come from? Many believe it began with President Ronald Reagan. He certainly was the first to consistantly exercise the hand salute, but during my research I also found a photograph of President Franklin Roosevelt engaging in what appears to be a hand salute. More frequently he was shown saluting by placing his hand, or hat, over his heart as in the photo above.

About the tradition, Ronald Reagan said, "I never ceased to enjoy reviewing our men and women in uniform and hope I started a new tradition for presidents. As Commander In Chief, I discovered it was customary for our uniformed men and women to salute whenever they saw me. When I'd walk down the steps of a helicopter, for example, there was always a Marine waiting there to salute me."

"I was told presidents weren't supposed to return salutes, so I didn't, but this made me feel a little uncomfortable. Normally, a person offering a salute waits until it is returned, then brings down his hand. Sometimes, I realized, the soldier, sailor, Marine, or airman giving me a salute wasn't sure when he was supposed to lower his hand. Initially, I nodded and smiled and said hello and thought maybe that would bring down the hand, but usually it didn't. Finally, one night when Nancy and I were attending a concert at the Marine Corps Headquarters, I told the Commandant of Marines, "I know it's customary for the President to receive these salutes, but I was once an officer and realize that you're not supposed to salute when you're in civilian clothes. I think there ought to be a regulation that the president could return a salute inasmuch as he is commander in chief and civilian clothes are his uniform." "Well, if you did return a salute," the general said, "I don't think anyone would say anything to you about it."

"The next time I got a salute, I saluted back. A big grin came over the Marine's face and down came his hand. From then on, I always returned salutes. When George Bush followed me into the White House, I encouraged him to keep up the tradition."

Since that time, we have begun seeing presidents becoming more "paramilitary" by donning pieces of the military uniform such as a military flight jacket while on board Air Force One. President George W. Bush took this a step further donning an entire Navy Flightsuit Uniform complete with insignia and a decorated aircraft for his now infamous "Mission Accomplished" speech.

Is the newly founded tradition a harmless gesture of support to members of the military? Or, is it rather, a slow errosion of the principle of civilian rule over the military? While, as an Air Force Staff Sergeant, I enjoyed watching President Reagan show his respect for the military openly by returning the salutes to us. However, I actually resented President Bush's wearing of a military uniform while serving as President. Some presidents, like both Bushes, Carter, Kennedy and Reagan have earned the right to salute as veterans of our miltiary forces. Other's like Clinton and Obama did not.



Perhaps we should step back and re-establish the fact and the image that the POTUS is a civilian and he (or she) should look and act like a civilian. Should we stop the blurring of the lines between civilian and military authority? Commander-in-Chief is a job position not a military rank. The CINC is only CINC of the military, not civilians. Is this militarization of our president an errosion of Constitutional liberty or simply a figurative gesture honor our military? I welcome your comments...
- See more at: http://www.texasgopvote.com/military-salute/it-proper-president-render-military-hand-salute-002816#sthash.oThTR3O2.dpuf

Here's one for you to chew on- Should the President salute military personnel ? Was all the criticism of Obama's not saluting justified ?

I have to go along with the author- the President is a civilian and even tho Commander in Chief- he is still a civilian and I think the salute is reserved for/should be done only by military persons... Having a civilian over our military was an important issue to our founding fathers and I think too often now is forgotten...

Even as a law enforcement officer I and our office did not do military type hand salutes while many L.E. departments did ... This was because we wanted to keep the identity of the Sheriff's Office as a civilian authority and did not want to take on a militaristic look ...
 

hopalong

Well-known member
You believed it when he posted this???

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

But after thinking longer of it-- this PB site in no way represents the rural/rancher community I know or the rural America I want to be associated with- so instead of arguing with the racists, homophobes, and anarchists- I'll let them have their way with all hate, fear and the personal slander and libel they put out.... I have some new cattle ventures I'm moving into- and don't need to fight with losers and wannabes....



:D :D :D :D :D :D
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Addictions are hard to kick. :wink:

On a serious note, the proper thing for President Obama to do would be to put his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is being played. He should show respect for the country to which he has been called upon to lead.
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Soap...he would rather we all kneel towards Mecca five times a day and stone adulterous women to death. Never forget "I stand with the Muslims".
It would be nice to get some justice for the Fort Hood & Benghazi victims for openers.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
So why are these presidents, as Commander in Chief (CINC) not saluting the Medal recipients? Even President Dwight David Eisenhower (a retired 5 star general) did not salute the members of the military to whom he presented the medal.

The answer is quite simple. The President of the United States is a civilian. He is not a member of the US Military and is therefore not entitled to salute. The military salute is a privilege earned by honorable service in the military. It is also a privilege that can be taken away. Military prisoners are stripped of the privilege of saluting. While the President is Constitutionally the CINC, he is not a member of the military.

Eisenhower thought so strongly about a President being a civilian that after being elected he resigned his commission as General of the Army...Upon completion of his Presidential term, his commission was reactivated by Congress and Eisenhower again was commissioned a five-star general in the United States Army......
 

Mike

Well-known member
Want to talk about Buckwheat snubbing the Military?
Cleveland Leader -Barack Obama may have stumbled over his words briefly during his inauguration, but he made an even bigger blunder later Tuesday evening. The newly sworn-in President opted not to appear at what should have been one of the most important Balls on his agenda that evening - The Salute to Heroes Inaugural Ball.

The Salute to Heroes Inaugural Ball was begun in 1953 for President Dwight Eisenhower's inauguration. The event recognized recipients of the Medal of Honor, the nation's highest military award. There were 48 Medal of Honor recipients in attendance, who were undoubtedly disappointed by the Commander-in-Chief's failure to show. Over the past 56 years and 14 inaugurations, no President has skipped this event - until now.

The Salute to Heroes Inaugural Ball is sponsored by the American Legion, and co-sponsored by 13 other veteran's service organizations, including those such as the Paralyzed Veterans of America and the Military Order of the Purple Heart.

Instead of attending this ball honoring our nation's heroes, Obama was busy making stops at 10 other official balls. Obama and his wife's first stop was at the Neighborhood Ball. From there they went to the Home State Ball for Illinois and Hawaii, the Commander-in-Chief Ball, the Youth Inaugural Ball, and the Home State Ball for Delaware and Pennsylvania. They finished off the night with brief appearances at the Mid-Atlantic, Western, Midwest, Eastern, and Southern regional Balls.

Celebrities were a plenty at the balls, with Stevie Wonder, Shakira, Mary. J. Blige, Faith Hill, Jay-Z, Alicia Keys, Adam Levine, will.i.am, Sting, Mariah Carey, and Leonardo DiCaprio in attendance at the Neighborhood Ball. In addition, the other nine balls also featured a star-studded lineup including Kanye West and Kid Rock at the Youth Ball, Marc Anthony at the Western Ball, and Cheryl Crow at the Western Ball.

It was the party without all of the celebrities that Obama skipped. The very people who he sought to have support him during his candidacy and campaign, who have fought to protect this country, were snubbed in favor of publicity and the opportunity to rub shoulders - yet again - with the out-of-touch Hollywood elite.
 

Martin Jr.

Well-known member
In my opinion, the president should return salutes to individual military persons, but as for saluting the flag, national anthem; he should do as civilians are supposed to do, put his hand over his heart.

As for attending Medal of Honor recipients Salute to Heroes Inaugural Ball; his lack of attendance is inexcusable.

But then, campaigning is what he does best.
 

Mike

Well-known member
From OT's very own post:
Some presidents, like both Bushes, Carter, Kennedy and Reagan have earned the right to salute as veterans of our miltiary forces. Other's like Clinton and Obama did not.
 

Steve

Well-known member
I have to go along with the author- the President is a civilian and even tho Commander in Chief- he is still a civilian and I think the salute is reserved for/should be done only by military persons.

20110815_obama_minnesota1_33.jpg


all I can say is if anyone in the military failed to salute the President we would get our,.. (insert negative navy words here)









Obama-awards-citizens-medal_1_1.jpg


U.S. President Barack Obama salutes George Weiss, Jr., a veteran of World War II and the United States Marine Corps, after awarding him a 2010 Citizens Medal during a ceremony in the East Room of the White House in Washington on August 4, 2010.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Obama-awards-citizens-medal/fp/3635/#ixzz2xU83DPue

as for the medal of honor..
http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutally_honest/2010/12/apparently-this-too-is-above-his-pay-grade.html

President Clinton is the only one I was able to find an actual photo of him saluting a Medal of Honor recipient.

the question might not be of initiating a salute.. but of returning a salute.

many of the photos show the recipient uncovered.,.. and many in the military would not salute if uncovered indoors.

Salutes are not required when:

(1) Indoors, except when reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.

(4) Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.

d. Indoors. When the National Anthem is played indoors, officers and enlisted personnel stand at attention and face the music, or the flag if one is present.

in most cases the subordinate salutes first and the senior returns the salute..

the Medal of Honor is one exception



Saluting

Although not required by law or military regulation,[97] members of the uniformed services are encouraged to render salutes to recipients of the Medal of Honor as a matter of respect and courtesy regardless of rank or status and, if the recipients are wearing the medal, whether or not they are in uniform.[98] This is one of the few instances where a living member of the military will receive salutes from members of a higher rank.



what I feel is disingenuous is the recent effort to right wrongs with the Medal of Honor.. these men deserve it.. but it has been given to men who earned it despite color before. it should be about the actions of the hero..

Robert Augustus Sweeney (February 20, 1853 – December 19, 1890) was a sailor in the United States Navy and is one of only nineteen servicemen, and the only African American, to receive the Medal of Honor twice, both for peace-time actions.

both for jumping in the water to save a drowning man..

there are several such awards for the Navy.. and while I feel it is a gallant act.. I was shocked to see it awarded for that..




I feel a bit cheated as all I received was a serious ass chewing.. :lol:
 

Mike

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
2 pages of yap not a one of you answered OT's question..............

Because the question, like himself, is largely irrelevant and unimportant?

My question is "should Obama salute Putin?"

Answer: Not yet.
:lol:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Several did but it is beyond your comprehension level
:roll: :roll: :roll:


Instead of complaining about the rest of the posts and spouting why don't you give us your opinion in the matter....

AND just so you can't flap your jaws YES
 
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