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Sister Sarah now Grandma Sarah

CattleArmy

Well-known member
hopalong said:
CattleArmy said:
hopalong said:
Don't worry Cal, some of those that think everyone who stands up for Palin must have a crush on her, when in fact it is their insecurities and jealousy that plague them.
In fact some go such great pains to point out every little thing such as sex before marriage that it makes one wonder if they are not hiding something in their closet like indulgence themselves? :D :D :D

Why is someon insecure and jealouse if they don't support someone. I didn't support McCain and called him old yet you weren't yelling I was jealous of him. When in reality I was he's the one that's linked to the beer world. :wink:

I didn't mind Palin until she opened her mouth. A pretty woman doesn't make all other women jealous. Why in the world would one be jealous of someone with a majority of the country laughing at her to being just down right disgusted at the opening of her mouth and a knocked up daughter. I don't see anything to be jealous about or insecure about.

Hoppy if you are asking in your point it out kinda way if I had sex before marriage yes I did. Am I proud of it? No. Was I armed with responsible information from the adults in my life to avoid getting knocked up? Yes. Did I sleep with every Tom, Dick, and Harry. No. I've only slept with one person in my life. So there now your little insinuating mind knows. Can you the finger pointer say the same?


No I cannot say that I have only slept with one person!

But then I have been married twice!!!!!!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Understandable.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Steve said:
CattleArmy
At this point I'm not even sure why I called you an ass.........wait I just looked back and now I recall. It's because you stand on your little soap box beating your holier then thou drum and point out what I should and shouldn't say and if I have a right to or not. Yea that's it.

any one can say whatever they want.. I'm just a "take responsibility for what you said" type of guy.. and what you said seemed like it should be put closer together..

as for the soap box.. I try to use it well... but I really doubt I am holier then thou,.. and at times I might come across as an ass. but it isn't intentional..

the real question is.. are you any different?


Probably not Steve. I know when it comes to issues that I feel strongly about I'm way more outspoken and brazen and the hard part about typing is that there is no body language to see and words typed one way can be taken in way not ment.

Saying that still Steve I don't get why it's ok for someone to get knocked up and homosexuals are damned to hell.
 

Steve

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Steve said:
CattleArmy
At this point I'm not even sure why I called you an ass.........wait I just looked back and now I recall. It's because you stand on your little soap box beating your holier then thou drum and point out what I should and shouldn't say and if I have a right to or not. Yea that's it.

any one can say whatever they want.. I'm just a "take responsibility for what you said" type of guy.. and what you said seemed like it should be put closer together..

as for the soap box.. I try to use it well... but I really doubt I am holier then thou,.. and at times I might come across as an ass. but it isn't intentional..

the real question is.. are you any different?


Probably not Steve. I know when it comes to issues that I feel strongly about I'm way more outspoken and brazen and the hard part about typing is that there is no body language to see and words typed one way can be taken in way not ment.

Saying that still Steve I don't get why it's ok for someone to get knocked up and homosexuals are damned to hell.

it's ok for "someone" to get pregnant, nothing wrong with that... I would just prefer they wait until they are old enough and responsible enough to take care of the child..

ussually when you are old enough and responsible enough, you realize the child needs a stable home and caring parents..

as for the damned in hell.. I don't make that decision..
 

Steve

Well-known member
R2
Hey I have to say I find Steve refreshing. I don't agree with his politics mostly, but he debates with civility and brings factual information and appears to also read and listen. I refuse to hate him for his views.

Well thanks,... but your really wrong.. I am one of the really bad conservatives. a ringleader of sorts.. one of those darn rightwing types Obama warned you about... plus your going to destroy my credibilty..

BTW I don't hate any one.. I've seen hatred.. it destroys a person.. so I refuse to hate.. :wink:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
hopalong said:
CattleArmy said:
Why is someon insecure and jealouse if they don't support someone. I didn't support McCain and called him old yet you weren't yelling I was jealous of him. When in reality I was he's the one that's linked to the beer world. :wink:

I didn't mind Palin until she opened her mouth. A pretty woman doesn't make all other women jealous. Why in the world would one be jealous of someone with a majority of the country laughing at her to being just down right disgusted at the opening of her mouth and a knocked up daughter. I don't see anything to be jealous about or insecure about.

Hoppy if you are asking in your point it out kinda way if I had sex before marriage yes I did. Am I proud of it? No. Was I armed with responsible information from the adults in my life to avoid getting knocked up? Yes. Did I sleep with every Tom, Dick, and Harry. No. I've only slept with one person in my life. So there now your little insinuating mind knows. Can you the finger pointer say the same?


No I cannot say that I have only slept with one person!

But then I have been married twice!!!!!!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Understandable.

Guess the good Lord thought, so took my first wife home when she was 25 :(
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
Hate in the context of arguing over political differences in what is practically a one-party system in the U.S. seems pretty silly considering that tonight there are civilians in Gaza who are in danger of losing their lives because they are pawns in the hands of Hamas and Israel ground forces who will lose their lives to protect the civilians of Beersheba and Sderot.

I've seen death. I've seen terrorism. Both firsthand. THAT'S why I refuse to hate over partisan politics and silly insults. But also why I am asking for a return to civility.

Well then, go back and see who started this thread. The lady did not win the VP seat. The other end of what you call a "one-party system" likes to kick someone when they are down so to speak.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
I think your who can and who can't be Christian is for the birds. Who doesn't sin?

So Aplus you'd rather have Gays be devil worshipers then to be Christians? I mean isn't that the alternative for them? What now only the rightous can worship God? Can pray to him? Give me a flipping break.

As far as your gays want to be heterosexual comment I ask you this who doesn't want someone to walk through this life with? Is it to much to ask for a gay individual to have the same rights as you or I when it comes to love? For once, just once, take the sex out of it and think of the feelings and the commitment.

Not my choice rather Gays are Christains or not, I do not have a say in it. But Gods say has already been written. You can not willfully and continually practice a sign with no remorse or with out repenting for that sign and be a Christian. Christianity is about seeking forgiveness for sins and trying to lead a Christ like lifestyle. Practicing of homosexuality goes against that effort. I did not write the Bible, if you have a complaint take it up with God!

As for Homosexuals walking through life with someone to love, millions of people live together and love each other with out marriage! Why should gays be able to do something held out for Heterosexuals just because they want to? What you going to tell me they need it so they will not live in sin? Well see the paragraph above for that answer.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
aplusmnt said:
CattleArmy said:
I think your who can and who can't be Christian is for the birds. Who doesn't sin?

So Aplus you'd rather have Gays be devil worshipers then to be Christians? I mean isn't that the alternative for them? What now only the rightous can worship God? Can pray to him? Give me a flipping break.

As far as your gays want to be heterosexual comment I ask you this who doesn't want someone to walk through this life with? Is it to much to ask for a gay individual to have the same rights as you or I when it comes to love? For once, just once, take the sex out of it and think of the feelings and the commitment.

Not my choice rather Gays are Christains or not, I do not have a say in it. But Gods say has already been written. You can not willfully and continually practice a sign with no remorse or with out repenting for that sign and be a Christian. Christianity is about seeking forgiveness for sins and trying to lead a Christ like lifestyle. Practicing of homosexuality goes against that effort. I did not write the Bible, if you have a complaint take it up with God!

As for Homosexuals walking through life with someone to love, millions of people live together and love each other with out marriage! Why should gays be able to do something held out for Heterosexuals just because they want to? What you going to tell me they need it so they will not live in sin? Well see the paragraph above for that answer.

What do you make of the fact that there are plenty of Christian churches that DO accept homosexuals as Christians?

I make that it is just a tell of the times of the last days that was predicted. A time when many false religions and sects would form and many false prophets would mislead the people.

2 Peter 2:1-3 (New American Standard Bible)

1But (A)false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be (B)false teachers (C)among you, who will (D)secretly introduce (E)destructive heresies, even (F)denying the (G)Master who (H)bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2Many will follow their (I)sensuality, and because of them (J)the way of the truth will be (K)maligned;

3and in their (L)greed they will (M)exploit you with (N)false words; (O)their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep


The Bible is pretty clear on these two things, You can not be a Christian and continually practice Homosexuality and that there will be people that are false prophets that will tell you that you can be.

Not even sure if you can be a Christian if you go around saying that it is OK to be Gay and be a Christian, the Bible is pretty clear about people that mislead or teach things that is in contrast to the Bible.

And some point to be a Christian we would need to turn away from practicing homosexuality and from defending it as being ok!

I say if a person wants to be Gay then more power to them, just don't try to force yourself into groups that believe it is wrong! Go create your own religion or do as you please!

A gay person trying to be part of Christianity is like a Black man trying to be part of the KKK, it just goes against the rules of the Charter! :wink: Blacks started their own radical group the NAACP, maybe Homosexuals need to start their own religion!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Okay Okay lets us get off of the teens having sex. The largest increase in STD is happening in the older generation. It is happening to people in their later years that do not know any thing about the dangers of having unsafe sex. Now back to the teens and responsibilty my wife was 17 and I was 20 when we married, everyone said they will never make it to young. well we showed them it will be 48 years of marriage june 3 of this year. I guess we showed the gossipers and busy bodies.
 

alice

Well-known member
hurleyjd said:
Okay Okay lets us get off of the teens having sex. The largest increase in STD is happening in the older generation. It is happening to people in their later years that do not know any thing about the dangers of having unsafe sex. Now back to the teens and responsibilty my wife was 17 and I was 20 when we married, everyone said they will never make it to young. well we showed them it will be 48 years of marriage june 3 of this year. I guess we showed the gossipers and busy bodies.

Congratulations! That is awesome!!!!!!

Alice
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
This is not a fruitful nor a political discussion since you and I are not going to change each other's views in this area. I know where your views come from and you have the right to hold them, but there are other Christians -- including mainstream Christians who are not in breakaway sects -- who hold an opinion different than yours.

I find it fascinating that the Catholic Church reassigned and protected priests who sexually abused young boys. They excused the behavior and allowed the priests to continue being LEADERS of the faith.

The Episcopals elected a gay Bishop in 2003 I believe.

Neither of these are breakaway sects. If you do some reading you will find in fact that many mainstream Christian groups are struggling with homosexuality, precisely because of what I posted -- Christ believed in forgiveness and inclusion. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and so on.

I am not a Biblical scholar but I believe that some of the most conflicted passages in the New Testament come from Paul or his followers who took a very monastic view of sexuality -- that it is a sin.

I believe that there are whole sects of Christianity in the U.S. that are permeated with this belief and again, while I support your right to hold and express your opinions, they are not the opinion of all Christians. I remind you, mainstream Christianity is struggling with this and the trend is to INCLUDE gay people, although not to promote or accept it as a lifestyle.

Anyway, our beliefs differ and this is not a fruitful topic so I hope you will agree that it is one that we should put aside.

You are correct many mainstream Religions are accepting Gays, much like when Jesus got mad at the going ons in the Temples during his time things are going on in Religions today that are not in line with Gods word!

Like it or not Gods view of Homosexuality is pretty clear. It is not some theological debatable thing like the Mark of the Beast or some other complicated Biblical views. Homosexual behaviour is as simple to understand in the Bible as Adultery, Stealing or Murder.

Why do we not have debates on rather a Christian can have a job as a professional Hit man going around killing people for a living.

When Religions and individuals begin deciding what a Christian can and can not do based on their own feelings then they are no longer Christians. That does not make them bad people, just makes them not Christains! Probably lots of nice gay people out there just not any Gay Christians in existence.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
hahaha there are gay Episcopal priests and gay Catholic priests and who knows what other kind of very devout Christian gay people...

People who are every bit as devout as you and ten times more learned and good deed doing.

It may be by the way that some of them have chosen celibacy but they do not turn their backs on what they are or on others like them.

You seem to think if enough people do something wrong then it makes it right. :roll: You seem to think that the higher the position or the Bigger the organization if they do what is wrong then it must be right. :roll:

The time of the end say that many false prophets will rise and mislead many people, guess you could consider those Churches that teach it ok to be gay as a fulfillment of that prophecy, no matter how large or whom they are!

One point to clarify is allowing gays to be part of their Church, Religions should accept sinners into their congregations, they should allow every type of sinner to be part of their congregation. But their goal should be to help them see their wrong lifestyle from the pulpit, not to condone it from the pulpit. Churches should be for sinners because we all sin, this is more about doctrine not membership!
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
I was merely producing counterexamples

Debate? Does that not simply lead to more conflict?

Jesus did not hang out in the temples. He went to the poeple. The common people and led by example. "Go and sin no more..." Some one is casting stones at Palin.

If Jesus could turn the worst of the lot into the best, did it not accomplish a whole lot more? As he lay dying on the cross he was still at work with a thief dying beside him.

If you wash a truck that is already clean, you will not see much from the fruits of your labor. But if you pick a really dirty truck, the same effort is much more apparent.

Most people do not sit down, read the Bible, the decide to become Christian. It may happen but not for the majority. Then there is a whole bunch who have never read it at all. Folks on both ends. Christians who are believing what they are told and atheists who don't care to know.

I don't dare throw a stone at Sarah Palin. I've been there. Even tho Why Not tried to throw guilt on me personally over this issue, I have no guilt.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
aplusmnt said:
reader (the Second) said:
hahaha there are gay Episcopal priests and gay Catholic priests and who knows what other kind of very devout Christian gay people...

People who are every bit as devout as you and ten times more learned and good deed doing.

It may be by the way that some of them have chosen celibacy but they do not turn their backs on what they are or on others like them.

You seem to think if enough people do something wrong then it makes it right. :roll: You seem to think that the higher the position or the Bigger the organization if they do what is wrong then it must be right. :roll:

The time of the end say that many false prophets will rise and mislead many people, guess you could consider those Churches that teach it ok to be gay as a fulfillment of that prophecy, no matter how large or whom they are!

One point to clarify is allowing gays to be part of their Church, Religions should accept sinners into their congregations, they should allow every type of sinner to be part of their congregation. But their goal should be to help them see their wrong lifestyle from the pulpit, not to condone it from the pulpit. Churches should be for sinners because we all sin, this is more about doctrine not membership!

I was merely producing counterexamples to someone's claim (yours?) that only minor sects of Christianity accepted gays as Christians.

Several of you have adamantly opposed accepting gays as Christians or allowing them to be church members and someone claimed that there are no major groups in Christianity that accept gay members, only bizarre and wacko sects.

I agree with your last point entirely -- "Religions should accept sinners into their congregations, they should allow every type of sinner to be part of their congregation." Thank you.

I think you are putting words in my mouth, I did not say minor sects only accepting Homosexuals. I said anyone who teaches it ok to be Homosexual and it is not a sin is wrong, I do not care if it is the Pope himself or some Joe blow in a Church of 10 people. The Bible is clear on this, so you either believe the Bible or you do not! That is your choice and you alone have to answer for that choice!

If the pope jumped off a bridge would you also jump off the Bridge?

(Disclaimer I have no idea how the pope feels on this subject nor do I care!)

Point is if a gay man came into a church, Christains should welcome him, shake his hand, invite him to lunch afterwards and hope that he comes back every Sunday. But no one in that Church including the Preacher should ever Condone Homosexuality. Just as many in the pews may have committed a sin the night before, maybe getting Drunk, maybe loosing their temper, maybe they used Gods name in vain. As the Preacher should not condone that activity he also should not condone the activity the night before of the Gay man!

But attending a Church does not make any of us Christians. It is fruits we produce that will decide that!
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
CattleArmy said:
I think your who can and who can't be Christian is for the birds. Who doesn't sin?

So Aplus you'd rather have Gays be devil worshipers then to be Christians? I mean isn't that the alternative for them? What now only the rightous can worship God? Can pray to him? Give me a flipping break.

As far as your gays want to be heterosexual comment I ask you this who doesn't want someone to walk through this life with? Is it to much to ask for a gay individual to have the same rights as you or I when it comes to love? For once, just once, take the sex out of it and think of the feelings and the commitment.

Not my choice rather Gays are Christains or not, I do not have a say in it. But Gods say has already been written. You can not willfully and continually practice a sign with no remorse or with out repenting for that sign and be a Christian. Christianity is about seeking forgiveness for sins and trying to lead a Christ like lifestyle. Practicing of homosexuality goes against that effort. I did not write the Bible, if you have a complaint take it up with God!

As for Homosexuals walking through life with someone to love, millions of people live together and love each other with out marriage! Why should gays be able to do something held out for Heterosexuals just because they want to? What you going to tell me they need it so they will not live in sin? Well see the paragraph above for that answer.

I don't care if it's called marriage or what but I do think homosexuals are entitled to the same benefits of marriage that any heterosexual gets. Rights of benefits, survivorship, and able to make decisions for their "partner" when ill or on death beds.

Who lives without sin? Who's lived the perfect life?

About your repenting statement. Can't a homosexual be saved laying on their death bed, aknowledging the sin, asking for forgiveness and be saved? I just wonder who God forgives and who he doesn't according to you?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
aplusmnt said:
CattleArmy said:
I think your who can and who can't be Christian is for the birds. Who doesn't sin?

So Aplus you'd rather have Gays be devil worshipers then to be Christians? I mean isn't that the alternative for them? What now only the rightous can worship God? Can pray to him? Give me a flipping break.

As far as your gays want to be heterosexual comment I ask you this who doesn't want someone to walk through this life with? Is it to much to ask for a gay individual to have the same rights as you or I when it comes to love? For once, just once, take the sex out of it and think of the feelings and the commitment.

Not my choice rather Gays are Christains or not, I do not have a say in it. But Gods say has already been written. You can not willfully and continually practice a sign with no remorse or with out repenting for that sign and be a Christian. Christianity is about seeking forgiveness for sins and trying to lead a Christ like lifestyle. Practicing of homosexuality goes against that effort. I did not write the Bible, if you have a complaint take it up with God!

As for Homosexuals walking through life with someone to love, millions of people live together and love each other with out marriage! Why should gays be able to do something held out for Heterosexuals just because they want to? What you going to tell me they need it so they will not live in sin? Well see the paragraph above for that answer.

I don't care if it's called marriage or what but I do think homosexuals are entitled to the same benefits of marriage that any heterosexual gets. Rights of benefits, survivorship, and able to make decisions for their "partner" when ill or on death beds.

Who lives without sin? Who's lived the perfect life?

About your repenting statement. Can't a homosexual be saved laying on their death bed, aknowledging the sin, asking for forgiveness and be saved? I just wonder who God forgives and who he doesn't according to you?

Yes it would be possible for a death bed forgiveness. If it was me I do not think I would feel very comftorable being in that situation, but that would be between God and the person on the Death bed, only God would know if the person was truly repentant.

But them kind of issues are not of concern to me or you, if we believe in God and we believe that Bible is his inspired word then we have only two concerns, 1. We do our best to follow his laws as much as possible as an imperfect person can. 2. And two that we share his message with others and make sure we base it on accurate knowledge and not our personal opinions on the matter.

You really seem to be holding on to the fact that everyone sins then it is ok to do and condone something that is wrong in the Bible. You see we all sin, I committed a few sins today but here is the key, I do not believe it was OK for me to do them sins and I do not intend on doing them again tomorrow if I can at all possibly help it.

Our motivation should be to not sin if at all possible, most likely if you engage in Homosexual activity then you probably have no intention on trying to not commit that sin, and if you are an activist trying to legalize marriage and many other things, I would say it is pretty obvious you are not trying to shake the monkey off your back!

Like I have said before, be gay, have gay friends it is no skin of my back. Just be honest in realizing that you can not be a Christian and condone or practice it. But find comfort in knowing there are millions of people that have no interest in being Christians, embrace them and quit trying to change the rules written in the Bible to fit your beliefs!
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
hahaha there are gay Episcopal priests and gay Catholic priests and who knows what other kind of very devout Christian gay people...

People who are every bit as devout as you and ten times more learned and good deed doing.

It may be by the way that some of them have chosen celibacy but they do not turn their backs on what they are or on others like them.

True there are gay priests as well as gay non religious. They are accepted in full fellowship in the Church but are to abstain from homosexual activities.
 

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