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SO what do you say,bail out the auto industry

Texan

Well-known member
Let 'em file bankruptcy if they need a bailout. That will give them REAL incentive to reorganize and change their ways. We've got to draw the line somewhere and this is as good a place as any to start.

But...the liberals in control of Congress that kiss ass with the unions aren't about to let that happen. I just hope that Republicans in Congress have the huevos to vote against it and that President Bush has the courage to veto it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yes I say screw them, we can always buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, Hunydia, Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes, Suzsuki. Izusus and any other car that the overseas based companies want to bring over here. Heck it only makes since to trade with overseas companies after all they loan us the money to keep our government running. We can send all of our dollars over there. After all look at the savings we are getting makes no difference if we have no jobs. The rest of us that have money can really save big time. After all the American made cars are not as good. I had a 1993 Honda Accord that had to have three transmissions installed before a hundred thousand miles. Also had a Toyota that the transimisson failed on seems there was one shaft that the design would not allow to be oiled. The shaft about 12 inches long would cost over $800. I am planning to buy foreign vechicle as soon as my old chevy pickup wears out, it has over two hundred thousand on it. I like the idea that any time there is a small problem with our beef the countries that send us thier cars will cut of the imports in a New York Minute. I really like selling calves for less money than they cost to produce.
 

fff

Well-known member
You want to pay now or pay later?

General Motors Corp., seeking a federal bailout as its cash dwindles, would cost the government as much as $200 billion should the biggest U.S. automaker be forced to liquidate, a forecasting firm estimated.

A GM collapse would mean ``more aid to specific states like Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana, and more money into unemployment and extended benefits,'' Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Global Insight Inc. in Lexington, Massachusetts, said today in an interview. He prepared the estimate for Bloomberg News.

The projected expense of $100 billion to $200 billion covers funds for existing programs, such as unemployment insurance, and new measures that would be needed to revive economic growth after millions of auto-related job losses.

Such a sum would be an eightfold increase over the $25 billion bailout package that will be debated in Congress next week to help prop up Detroit-based GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC amid the industry's worst sales year since 1991.

GM said last week it may run short of operating cash by year's end, and projected it would be ``significantly short'' of what it needs by June unless the auto market improves or it adds capital.

A GM shutdown would cost jobs among suppliers as well as at the automaker itself, pushing the U.S. unemployment rate next year to 9.5 percent, compared with current projections of as high as 8.5 percent due to the weakened economy, Behravesh said.

Collapse Versus Bailout

The cost of an industry rescue plan versus the risk of a GM failure is a central issue for U.S. lawmakers. While some investors including Wilbur Ross say a GM bankruptcy would be a ``real mess'' that would end in liquidation, others such as hedge-fund manager William Ackman say there is no need for taxpayer funds and that GM should reorganize in court.

``A bankruptcy wouldn't address our immediate liquidity concerns,'' said Renee Rashid-Merem, a GM spokeswoman. ``It's not an option for GM because it creates more problems than it solves.''

The Center for Automotive Research projects that federal, state and local governments would lose $108.1 billion in taxes over three years in the event of a 50 percent reduction in U.S. automaker operations.

Job losses would total 2.5 million from an automaker failure in 2009, including 1.4 million people in industries not directly tied to manufacturing, the Ann Arbor, Michigan-based group said in a report on Nov. 4, three days before GM disclosed its cash drain.

`Real Costs'

``The government has real costs it would have to foot'' in a liquidation, said Bob Brusca, president of Fact & Opinion Economics in New York and a former chief of international markets at the New York Federal Reserve.

``They don't get those income taxes any more from the workers, they don't get the taxes from the corporation, they don't get local loss of taxes,'' Brusca said in an interview.

States pay an average of $279 a week for unemployment benefits for 26 weeks, according to Jennifer Kaplan, a U.S. Labor Department economist. The payments can last as long as 39 weeks in some states including Ohio, where the jobless rate was 7.2 percent in September.

The federal government also might ``be on the hook for the pension benefits and health benefits'' for workers thrown out of their jobs in an automaker collapse, said Dana Johnson, chief economist with Comerica Inc. in Dallas.

GM climbed 6 cents to $3.01 at 4:15 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have tumbled 88 percent this year.

To contact the reporters on this story: Alex Ortolani in Southfield, Michigan, at [email protected] or Mike Ramsey in Southfield, Michigan, at [email protected]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ad09qxbiElB8&refer=home
 

Mike

Well-known member
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!
 

Triangle Bar

Well-known member
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Mike, dare I say it, you sound like Obama and the left. "We'll bail you out if you do what we want." Okay fine, in this bailout are you also going to fund the infrastructure of setting up a natural gas filling station on every corner through out America?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Triangle Bar said:
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Mike, dare I say it, you sound like Obama and the left. "We'll bail you out if you do what we want." Okay fine, in this bailout are you also going to fund the infrastructure of setting up a natural gas filling station on every corner through out America?

The automakers are gonna get bailed out anyway due to Union influence.

The Dems will make sure of it. :mad:

Might as well come up with a plan to alleviate their main problems and make sure they are solvent when they do.

I wasn't for the bank bailouts and neither were my Senators but when you know you are outnumbered, try to make the deal at least one that won't be throwing money down a hole.
 

jodywy

Well-known member
Bankruptcy doesn’t have to be shut down sell off assets and pay your creditors.
It can be protection from your creditors while you stay in production and reorganize your business plan…hopefully working with your creditors, employees, and management. I feel it best to let the Phoenix die and come back from the ashes rather then make some social company that will probably cost more in the very end..
 

Texan

Well-known member
fff said:
You want to pay now or pay later?
I don't want to pay anymore PERIOD, ff. What do you want to do?

I've never owned any vehicle other than an American made. When people were buying rice-burner Jap-traps all through the 70's , 80's, 90's, etc - I refused. I've never owned any kind of pickup except Chevrolets. I assume that they've made a profit off of me every time I've bought one. Not to mention the thievery that they commit on parts and service.

I've already paid, haven't I?
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
I always bought Fords,till dodge started putting the cummins in their light trucks,so I suppose they made a few dollars off of me also,seems like every industry in the country needs bailing out except the cattle industry.
good luck
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
I am for Bankruptcy or they have to sell the companies if they can not make it! Brands are bought by others all the time, I am sure someone would want to buy the Chevrolet Brand and continue making the profitable cars and close losing divisions.

What good does a bail out do? If we give them Billions will that make consumers buy a Chevrolet Impala instead of a Toyota Camry? All it will do is postpone things.

I say make the file bankruptcy that is the way the system is set up......that in itself is a bail out. The government put in place a way for businesses to get bailed out and reorganize with out us tax payers giving them money. The executives do not want to lose their jobs and unions do not want dissolved so they are looking for alternative to bankruptcy.

Funny how Liberals talk all the time about our children and grandchildren having to pay for our spending. But when times get tough and tough measures are needed they cry and want us to do exactly what they complain about. If we bail out the auto industry our children and grandchildren will be paying for it. So lets suck it up fff and pay our own way!
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Why has someone not asked Exxon or the other oil companies to bail out the auto industry?


They've got the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.................it would be to their best interest................??????????????????????????
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Why has someone not asked Exxon or the other oil companies to bail out the auto industry?


They've got the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.................it would be to their best interest................??????????????????????????

Hondas, Toyotas, etc.... don't run on gas?
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Drawback to natural gas besides companies like Exxon Mobil is its danger during an accident I would think.
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
I am almost 72 and on medicare. I have to pay almost $900 a month for medical insurance for the wife(who is also on medicare) and myself. And we are really pretty healthy with no chronic illness.

So, of course, I don't mind having my taxes raised to pay for legacy costs for a bunch of factory workers who are overpaid. Especially the 6,000 or so who are in the jobs bank and who do nothing but watch TV and read for eight hours a day while they earn retirement credits.

I don't mind having my social security taxed so that factory workers who earn the equivalent of almost $160,000 annually can stay on the gravy train. My God, just think of the training it takes to be able to work on an assembly line and install wheels on cars as they move by.

I have worked at jobs for as little as 35 cents an hour (Didn't get anything for working on the ranch when I was a kid). So after some 60 years, why shouldn't I have to bail out those who make good bucks and have the UAW on their side to call a strike when they are asked to do something not in their job description?

Let the big three follow their brethern(or offspring) - Willys, Nash, Packard, Studebaker,
Crosley, LaSalle, Oldsmobile, Edsel, International Harvester, etc. The world will go on.

(Yeah, I know that some of the deceased were merged or otherwise integrated into the Big Three.) I also have two GM vehicles now.


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
TSR said:
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Drawback to natural gas besides companies like Exxon Mobil is its danger during an accident I would think.

I'm wondering...is 25 gallons of natural gas in a tank with 1/4 inch metal more dangerous than 25 gallons of gasoline in a tin can referred to as a gas tank? I wouldn't want to have to "fill my own tank" but I wouldn't be afraid to drive it. No worse than having a 500 gallon propane tank by the house or sitting on a tractor running on propane.

As for Exxon/Mobil bailing out the automakers, that's rediculous. Sounds like something out of Kola's mouth all right. That would be like Gillette bailing out the company that makes hair remover. Auto companies got themselves in this mess. Let them work their way out. Start with bankruptcy, new management, restructuring of all debt and restructuring of all union contracts. Get rid of excess in all areas and they'll be profitable in no time.
 

Mike

Well-known member
TSR said:
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Drawback to natural gas besides companies like Exxon Mobil is its danger during an accident I would think.

It is being used today and no......... it's not more dangerous.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Mike said:
TSR said:
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Drawback to natural gas besides companies like Exxon Mobil is its danger during an accident I would think.

It is being used today and no......... it's not more dangerous.

Every city bus in Ft. Worth has a big sign on it letting everyone know that it is powered by clean burning natural gas.
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
TSR said:
Mike said:
I would be for a bailout if they would run the UAW out of town, and be given the mandate to build every vehicle to either run off natural gas or be battery operated.

It is a relatively simple task to run vehicles from natural gas. All that needs to changed is the tank and fuel delivery system. The Gas Company here in Alabama (Alagasco) has been using it for years in all the service vehicles with great results and................ we have plenty!

Drawback to natural gas besides companies like Exxon Mobil is its danger during an accident I would think.

It is being used today and no......... it's not more dangerous.

School buses in a local county were once on LP gas I believe till one caught on fire. Now they are all diesel. That was the reason for my comment.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
IF...IF....the worst comes to pass and all 3 big makers ' tank'.....what about all the ' fringe' industry that compliments the BIG car makers....what about them and all those people that will loose their jobs, small business', homes, who knows what all????


It's a major Damned if you DO....and Damned if you DON'T
 
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