So..............Who does the NCBA really represent ?

[HAY MAKER]

Hayseed,

1. How can the packing industry be a monopoly if there is 5 major packers?

2. If packers can drive down prices, why do cattle markets go up just as often as they go down? Who or what is driving prices higher?

Now there's two questions to keep your blaming, conspiring mind spinning.


~SH~

1. 4
2.Diminishing captive supplies.
good luck

PS boy these were real tuff questions,had to really give this alot of thought,notice how many times it's been edited.

 

[Shaft]

Explain this to me i [sic] would like to check it myself,or admitt [sic] you are so stupid you dont know the differnce [sic] between capitalism and a Monopoly [sic].

OK, here goes: A monopoly is "the exclusive possesssion or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service".

What you are claiming the packers have going on, for your edification, is what is known as "monopoly capitalism", defined as "a capitalist system typified by trade monopolies in the hands of a few people". If you have a problem with that definition, take it up with the OED.

Given that the 'big four' control only 75% of the 'beef market share' in total, neither term is correctly applicable in this instance.

http://www.cggc.duke.edu/environment/valuechainanalysis/CGGC_BeefDairyReport_2-16-09.pdf
see page 29

However, I do agree with the conclusion of this report (page 49) that:

"Cattle farmers' decisions are increasingly influenced by a number of large players in the final segments of the beef value chain, from Tyson Foods to Wal-Mart to McDonald's. These companies' tendency to source beef from the dairy industry provides some potential leverage with dairy producers as well. If the beef packing/processing giant JBS-Swift succeeds in completing its current, controversial merger with National Beef, the increase in this single company's size and influence could change the U.S. industry significantly."

As this report points out, and as I tried to draw your attention to, you have more to worry about than just the packers. The retailers take a bigger piece of the pie. Given that the packets are becoming retailers and vice-versa things don't apear likely to change much for the better in the near future.

So, what are you going to do about it? Where I come from we have two broad categories of people; Doers and Whiners.

The Doers are too busy creating, innovating, risking and generally working their tails off generating wealth of all kinds (social, spiritual and financial) to complain. No time for that crap. The Whiners are generally too busy complaining and too set in their ways to move with the times and enjoy the benefits (social, spiritual and financial) that change can bring.

So, I repeat, what are you going to do about it?

good luck

 

[Sandhusker]

What I mean is; If cattle prices and beef prices were as closely related as you claim, charts of both prices would be in lock step - not necessarily the same, but they would resemble train tracks.

In reality, packers will always pay as little as they possibly can for cattle and and charge as much as they possibly can for beef.

Don't even purveyors of petroleum products operate under much the same premise? :???:

Of course they do - every business does or they won't be in business long. That's why this notion that higher beef prices are automatically translated into higher cattle prices is rediculous.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Explain this to me i [sic] would like to check it myself,or admitt [sic] you are so stupid you dont know the differnce [sic] between capitalism and a Monopoly [sic].

OK, here goes: A monopoly is "the exclusive possesssion or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service".

What you are claiming the packers have going on, for your edification, is what is known as "monopoly capitalism", defined as "a capitalist system typified by trade monopolies in the hands of a few people". If you have a problem with that definition, take it up with the OED.

Given that the 'big four' control only 75% of the 'beef market share' in total, neither term is correctly applicable in this instance.

http://www.cggc.duke.edu/environment/valuechainanalysis/CGGC_BeefDairyReport_2-16-09.pdf
see page 29

However, I do agree with the conclusion of this report (page 49) that:

"Cattle farmers' decisions are increasingly influenced by a number of large players in the final segments of the beef value chain, from Tyson Foods to Wal-Mart to McDonald's. These companies' tendency to source beef from the dairy industry provides some potential leverage with dairy producers as well. If the beef packing/processing giant JBS-Swift succeeds in completing its current, controversial merger with National Beef, the increase in this single company's size and influence could change the U.S. industry significantly."

As this report points out, and as I tried to draw your attention to, you have more to worry about than just the packers. The retailers take a bigger piece of the pie. Given that the packets are becoming retailers and vice-versa things don't apear likely to change much for the better in the near future.

So, what are you going to do about it? Where I come from we have two broad categories of people; Doers and Whiners.

The Doers are too busy creating, innovating, risking and generally working their tails off generating wealth of all kinds (social, spiritual and financial) to complain. No time for that crap. The Whiners are generally too busy complaining and too set in their ways to move with the times and enjoy the benefits (social, spiritual and financial) that change can bring.

So, I repeat, what are you going to do about it?

good luck

well hell since you have put it that way I suppose I better join the ncba,maybe i can fix this mess.
good luck

PS Thanks for the advise.

 

[Shaft]

Maybe you can.

"For verily I say unto you, if ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible to you."

Matthew 17:20

 

[HAY MAKER]

What I mean is; If cattle prices and beef prices were as closely related as you claim, charts of both prices would be in lock step - not necessarily the same, but they would resemble train tracks.

In reality, packers will always pay as little as they possibly can for cattle and and charge as much as they possibly can for beef.

Don't even purveyors of petroleum products operate under much the same premise? :???:

Of course they do - every business does or they won't be in business long. That's why this notion that higher beef prices are automatically translated into higher cattle prices is rediculous.

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/The-Ca.../Article.aspx?oid=1285104&fid=CN-LATEST_NEWS_

 

[High Plains]

Makes for a nice headline, Haymaker. But read the numbers and paint a picture for the whole period:

Tuesday through Monday:

Live Cattle:
$98.45; 99.35; 100.80; 101.45; 100.93
- advancing quite nicely for a five day period - up $2.48 ($3.91 on a dressed carcass basis of 63.5% yield)

Choice Boxed Beef
$158.11; 159.29; 158.64; 159.14; 160.96
- up $2.85 on five days

Live cattle beat the boxed Choice beef price according to my math when calculating on an apples to apples basis (convert to dressed price on the cattle). The dressed price increase was $3.91 for the period. Select boxes actually weren't as good but I left Select out and gave all advantage to the boxed beef rally. :lol:

The dressed equivalent of a $100.93 live animal is $158.94. That leaves two bucks packer margin when subtracted from $160.96 boxed beef value. Not exactly a get-rich-quick scheme.

Have a great day.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Makes for a nice headline, Haymaker. But read the numbers and paint a picture for the whole period:

Tuesday through Monday:

Live Cattle:
$98.45; 99.35; 100.80; 101.45; 100.93
- advancing quite nicely for a five day period - up $2.48 ($3.91 on a dressed carcass basis of 63.5% yield)

Choice Boxed Beef
$158.11; 159.29; 158.64; 159.14; 160.96
- up $2.85 on five days

Live cattle beat the boxed Choice beef price according to my math when calculating on an apples to apples basis (convert to dressed price on the cattle). The dressed price increase was $3.91 for the period. Select boxes actually weren't as good but I left Select out and gave all advantage to the boxed beef rally. :lol:

The dressed equivalent of a $100.93 live animal is $158.94. That leaves two bucks packer margin when subtracted from $160.96 boxed beef value. Not exactly a get-rich-quick scheme.

Have a great day.

Can you do that in crayon for Haymaker? :lol:

 

[HAY MAKER]

I dont need it crayon,its plain to see ole hi plane does arithmetic like a bonafide ncba'er,if we are going to cherry pick periods,maybe we oughta go back far enough to see why the rancher gets less for his stock every year while packers/retailers get more.
Its my opinion his kind are the reason it works for the packers and retailers,most folks subscribing to the packer theories are like him,some retired order buyer that claims to be a cattleman,or like mrj feeble old ignored lady starved for attention,the ncba fat cats lets hetr work free and gives her a few compliments and she follows like a pet coon.
Bottom line is the country is losing too many ranchers too soon,along with them and theirs goes the ranching lifestyle,while that may be fine for someone like hi plane,I could never survive.
good luck

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I dont need it crayon,its plain to see ole hi plane does arithmetic like a bonafide ncba'er,if we are going to cherry pick periods,maybe we oughta go back far enough to see why the rancher gets less for his stock every year while packers/retailers get more.
Its my opinion his kind are the reason it works for the packers and retailers,most folks subscribing to the packer theories are like him,some retired order buyer that claims to be a cattleman,or like mrj feeble old ignored lady starved for attention,the ncba fat cats lets hetr work free and gives her a few compliments and she follows like a pet coon.
Bottom line is the country is losing too many ranchers too soon,along with them and theirs goes the ranching lifestyle,while that may be fine for someone like hi plane,I could never survive.
good luck

Cherry picked :!:

You picked the time when you posted the headline and the link. :roll:

Do you color with your crayons or just eat them. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Wise up big dummie,the period chosen reflects the spread for that period,period. nothing more nothing less.
You want some harder numbers do your home work.
I always suspected you take delight in seeing the USA cattle man struggle,I guess in your feeble mind,might lessen the competition.
good luck

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Wise up big dummie,the period chosen reflects the spread for that period,period. nothing more nothing less.
You want some harder numbers do your home work.
I always suspected you take delight in seeing the USA cattle man struggle,I guess in your feeble mind,might lessen the competition.
good luck

You really are that dumb. :roll:

I make my living off the cattle I raise and sell. Why would I like to see the US cattleman suffer when our markets are so closely tied together.

Unlike you and so many R-Calfers I don't want to bite off my nose to spite my face. :cowboy:

 

[HAY MAKER]

Wise up big dummie,the period chosen reflects the spread for that period,period. nothing more nothing less.
You want some harder numbers do your home work.
I always suspected you take delight in seeing the USA cattle man struggle,I guess in your feeble mind,might lessen the competition.
good luck

You really are that dumb. :roll:

I make my living off the cattle I raise and sell. Why would I like to see the US cattleman suffer when our markets are so closely tied together.

Unlike you and so many R-Calfers I don't want to bite off my nose to spite my face. :cowboy:

Lemme git this straight in my feeble mind,if the Ranching industry in the good ole USA falters,the CCA would'nt promote sales and capture the void,because we are so closely tied together right
Believe its obvious who's dum.
good luck

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Wise up big dummie,the period chosen reflects the spread for that period,period. nothing more nothing less.
You want some harder numbers do your home work.
I always suspected you take delight in seeing the USA cattle man struggle,I guess in your feeble mind,might lessen the competition.
good luck

You really are that dumb. :roll:

I make my living off the cattle I raise and sell. Why would I like to see the US cattleman suffer when our markets are so closely tied together.

Unlike you and so many R-Calfers I don't want to bite off my nose to spite my face. :cowboy:

Lemme git this straight in my feeble mind,if the Ranching industry in the good ole USA falters,the CCA would'nt promote sales and capture the void,because we are so closely tied together right
Believe its obvious who's dum.
good luck

If the ranching industry completely failed in the US we wouldn't have enough beef to feed you for 2 weeks.

 

[HAY MAKER]

You really are that dumb. :roll:

I make my living off the cattle I raise and sell. Why would I like to see the US cattleman suffer when our markets are so closely tied together.

Unlike you and so many R-Calfers I don't want to bite off my nose to spite my face. :cowboy:

Lemme git this straight in my feeble mind,if the Ranching industry in the good ole USA falters,the CCA would'nt promote sales and capture the void,because we are so closely tied together right
Believe its obvious who's dum.
good luck

If the ranching industry completely failed in the US we wouldn't have enough beef to feed you for 2 weeks.

We are not talkin about complete failure,at least not in our lifetime.
besides whata mean biting off your nose,I caint help it if you are guillble enough to play the farm to fork game.
good luck

 

[High Plains]

I dont need it crayon,its plain to see ole hi plane does arithmetic like a bonafide ncba'er,if we are going to cherry pick periods,maybe we oughta go back far enough to see why the rancher gets less for his stock every year while packers/retailers get more.
Its my opinion his kind are the reason it works for the packers and retailers,most folks subscribing to the packer theories are like him,some retired order buyer that claims to be a cattleman,or like mrj feeble old ignored lady starved for attention,the ncba fat cats lets hetr work free and gives her a few compliments and she follows like a pet coon.
Bottom line is the country is losing too many ranchers too soon,along with them and theirs goes the ranching lifestyle,while that may be fine for someone like hi plane,I could never survive.
good luck

You are one entertaining individual, Haymaker, I'll hand you that. Let's make a deal, I won't do any more math for you and you can be nice to people. I think you'll come out happier on both accounts. Have fun with it and have a great day.

:cboy:

 

[Sandhusker]

Makes for a nice headline, Haymaker. But read the numbers and paint a picture for the whole period:

Tuesday through Monday:

Live Cattle:
$98.45; 99.35; 100.80; 101.45; 100.93
- advancing quite nicely for a five day period - up $2.48 ($3.91 on a dressed carcass basis of 63.5% yield)

Choice Boxed Beef
$158.11; 159.29; 158.64; 159.14; 160.96
- up $2.85 on five days

Live cattle beat the boxed Choice beef price according to my math when calculating on an apples to apples basis (convert to dressed price on the cattle). The dressed price increase was $3.91 for the period. Select boxes actually weren't as good but I left Select out and gave all advantage to the boxed beef rally. :lol:

The dressed equivalent of a $100.93 live animal is $158.94. That leaves two bucks packer margin when subtracted from $160.96 boxed beef value. Not exactly a get-rich-quick scheme.

Have a great day.

Have you the same examples for a longer time period - say the last 20-30 years or so?

 

[HAY MAKER]

I dont need it crayon,its plain to see ole hi plane does arithmetic like a bonafide ncba'er,if we are going to cherry pick periods,maybe we oughta go back far enough to see why the rancher gets less for his stock every year while packers/retailers get more.
Its my opinion his kind are the reason it works for the packers and retailers,most folks subscribing to the packer theories are like him,some retired order buyer that claims to be a cattleman,or like mrj feeble old ignored lady starved for attention,the ncba fat cats lets hetr work free and gives her a few compliments and she follows like a pet coon.
Bottom line is the country is losing too many ranchers too soon,along with them and theirs goes the ranching lifestyle,while that may be fine for someone like hi plane,I could never survive.
good luck

You are one entertaining individual, Haymaker, I'll hand you that. Let's make a deal, I won't do any more math for you and you can be nice to people. I think you'll come out happier on both accounts. Have fun with it and have a great day.

:cboy:

OK,we have a deal "IF" the next time i am arguin with a packer advocate/ncba,male or female, keep your snide remarks to yourself.
I believe if you reread every thing that got posted you would plainly see I was only defendin myself,try to be nice when i can.
good luck

 

[High Plains]

All in good fun as far as I'm concerned, Haymaker.

Have a good one.

 

[HAY MAKER]

All in good fun as far as I'm concerned, Haymaker.

Have a good one.

yes it....................good luck