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So You Aren't Gonna Vote.........

Traveler

Well-known member
http://dougellingsworth.com/2016/07/21/so-you-arent-gonna-vote-for-president/

So, you aren’t going to vote for President? You can’t stomach either of the candidates, and your conscience won’t let you cast a ballot for either?

That’s certainly your right as an American citizen. And you’ll have plenty of company. Millions of Americans stay at home every election day for every reason under the sun. As a matter of fact, there will probably be more of you sitting at home than there will be those of us who will actually decide the future direction of our country by voting.

Like you, I wish we had better choices, but this is the bottom line: on January 20, 2017, barring some tragic catastrophe, either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will put his hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution as our next President. While it may be the first time in a long time that either of them has actually touched a Bible, it will still be one of those two. Like it or lump it, those are our choices. No write-in or third-party candidate is going to garner enough support to win a ticket for the self-guided White House tour that’s free every morning except Sunday and Monday — let alone become the official resident there. It will either be President Clinton or President Trump.

If you don’t vote, that’s your business. But I want to make sure I understand what you are really saying when you choose to sit this one out.

I know that Donald is arrogant and Hillary has more baggage than most major airlines. He has the see-through combover of a man clinging to his teens, and she has the grating voice of a perpetually angry wife. He celebrates family, and rightly so — he has three or four. She makes millions from the financial houses she pretends to condemn. The deeper you look, the more you question how in the world did these two get here?

I’d understand why you aren’t voting if it all ended right there.

But it doesn’t.

Whoever gets the most votes in November is moving to Washington D.C. in January. And they are bringing a whole boatload of people with them.

The outcome of this election will do much more than decide whether it’s Donald or Hillary who will occupy the Oval Office. Will the IRS continue giving conservative Christian groups the run-around, or will a new leader move in? Will the leaders who allowed Americans to die in Benghazi serve four more years, or will a new President bring with him/her a new team who puts lives above politics?

Will this election send leaders to DC who will aggressively respond to those threatening and killing police officers, or will our capital be filled with folks who think police are the problem? Will leaders committed to protecting traditional family values come to town, or will more of those obsessed with gender blending experiments occupy places of influence?

Will our new leader’s team try to spur economic growth by reducing taxes and encouraging hard work, or will they seek higher taxes while pushing for a $15 per hour minimum wage? Will they be tree-hugging, global-warming alarmists, or will they encourage the continued production of our inexpensive fuel sources while newer sources are being developed?

Come January, one of those groups is moving in. But you don’t care which one so you aren’t going to vote?

The vote isn’t just for President. It’s for Supreme Court Justices. You know, those guys who said that forcing American’s to buy health insurance is legal, but marriage defined as one man and one woman isn’t. The new President could appoint as many as four new members of that group. But never mind how that works out, right? It’s not important enough for you to vote.

You say personal convictions keep you from voting for a person who doesn’t hold certain values. Okay. But if being true to your conviction results in creating a less safe, more unfriendly, and more anti-Jesus world for your children to grow up in, well, right there is where I lose you. Sure, you can say that you didn’t vote to let Donald or Hillary move into the White House, but you can’t say that you did what you could to keep the most evil influences out of positions of authority.

It’s so easy to see this election as just choosing either Donald or Hillary. But it’s way more than that. It’s hundreds of bureaucratic leaders, Cabinet officers, and Supreme Court Justices. It’s military readiness, global warming, healthcare revisions. It’s redefining family, expanding sexual experimentation, shrinking Constitutional freedoms.

It’s not just about Trump or Clinton. It’s about the philosophy and future of our country. That’s why, even though I don’t particularly like either candidate, I will cast my vote.

Not to mention whether we let a million more Muslims in the country like Hillary wants, or get rid of the death tax like Trump wants.
 

Traveler

Well-known member
under another Clinton regime. Is this to make up for the white guy she picked for VP? Pandering Gag Hag. Never Hillary!!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/21/philadelphia-police-union-slams-hillary-clinton-ov/
 

Martin Jr.

Well-known member
Dear CV Friend,

The Republican Party has officially selected Donald Trump as its nominee for President.

Next week, the Democratic Party will formally name Hillary Clinton as its candidate.

What should Catholic voters do?

Faithful Catholics who love the Church and love their country know what Hillary represents. She has pledged to continue President Obama’s unprecedented assault on religious freedom. She supports taxpayer-funded, late-term abortion and more. She aims to double down on Obamacare, while advocating a basket of policies that would drive our government further into debt. The inevitable fiscal and economic chaos will hurt the poor and middle class the most.

Finally, Hillary will re-make the Supreme Court for a least a generation with judges who would destroy our constitutional republic -- perhaps forever.

Hillary is part of the government 1%. She and her husband have used power and government to build a network of cronies to illegally enrich themselves, evade laws, and lie to the FBI.

So let’s be clear: a vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote against the poor, the unborn, the struggling worker, quality healthcare, and the family that wants the best possible education for their children.

A vote for Hillary is a vote to destroy Catholic charities and hospitals that care for the sick and homeless.

A vote for Hillary Clinton is simply unacceptable.

So... what about Trump?

CV vigorously opposed Donald Trump during the primary process where voters were choosing between 17 different candidates. Many of you criticized our efforts. We stand by what we said and did because we believe better options deserved your vote. But Republican (and many Democratic) voters chose Trump anyway.

Many honorable people we call friends continue to argue that they cannot vote for Trump in good conscience. They believe that Trump’s brand of populism, unpredictability, and lack of restraint will lead our country down a dangerous path.

Other good and honorable friends argue that, in spite of Trump’s excesses, we have no choice but to vote for him simply because Hillary Clinton must be stopped. They also note that Trump has offered a solid slate of possible judicial nominations, and has chosen a Vice President who is worthy of our support.

Furthermore, some see the momentum of the Trump movement as an opportunity to win back the working class, and to ride the anti-establishment movement to finally secure some victories for life, faith, and family.

One thing I know for certain: Catholic friends and allies who disagree on support for Trump, but share a common vision for America, are not enemies. We are on the same team.

The truth is -- Donald Trump is hard to predict. And thus shouting down and denigrating those who share a common vision for America accomplishes little. This infighting unnecessarily divides people of good will, and too often only boosts the egos of those throwing stones. Civil and substantive criticism of both Clinton and Trump is necessary; personal slandering of friend and neighbor is not.

Whether Trump wins or loses, on November 9th the election will be over and we will need each other to deal with whatever comes next. The Church teaches that participation in public life does not begin and end on election day.

So what now?

Earlier this year Republicans had 17 choices, Democrats 3. Now only two candidates remain. Efforts to mount a convention coup were unsuccessful. And as of today, no independent bid is viable; the Libertarian candidate (Gary Johnson) is publicly pro-abortion and opposed to religious freedom.

CV has been and will continue to focus on winning every Senate seat required to preserve a pro-life, pro-family majority. This voting bloc would approve qualified nominees to the Supreme Court and could help oppose those who threaten our liberty.

We will continue to be a bold voice that tells the truth about both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. We will not shy from offering praise or criticism for either candidate when deserved.

Regarding the big question of voting for Trump: it is a difficult prudential decision.

In the end, guided by the counsel of our Bishops in communion with the Church, we believe a vote for Trump can be a morally justifiable choice. Given the circumstances, if you decide to vote for Trump to stop Hillary, you are not ‘selling your soul’ or providing a blanket endorsement of anything Trump has ever said or will do in the future. Our Catholic faith will always be bigger than any political party. We are not voting to canonize a saint. We are voting for imperfect and flawed political leaders who we hope and believe will help renew our ailing country and culture.

However, if you cannot in good conscience vote for Trump for the reasons we’ve previously discussed, this too can be a morally justifiable decision.

Given the circumstances, and the high stakes of this election, we must encourage Trump to be the candidate that many hope he can become. We must call him out and oppose him when he is wrong, while also applauding him when he deserves it. We must demand that he continue to surround himself with good people like Mike Pence. And we must secure, as best we can, as many commitments to life, faith and family as possible.

Finally we must pray for him, as we do all of our political leaders.

Can Catholics vote for Trump?

Our answer is yes.


Brian

P.S. The counsel and wisdom of our Bishops helped guide today’s message. I encourage you to read this excerpt from Faithful Citizenship.

34. Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy promoting an intrinsically evil act, such as abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, deliberately subjecting workers or the poor to subhuman living conditions, redefining marriage in ways that violate its essential meaning, or racist behavior, if the voter's intent is to support that position. In such cases, a Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate's opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other important moral issues involving human life and dignity.

35. There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate's unacceptable position even on policies promoting an intrinsically evil act may reasonably decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons. Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil.

36. When all candidates hold a position that promotes an intrinsically evil act, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, may decide to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods.

37. In making these decisions, it is essential for Catholics to be guided by a well-formed conscience that recognizes that all issues do not carry the same moral weight and that the moral obligation to oppose policies promoting intrinsically evil acts has a special claim on our consciences and our actions. These decisions should take into account a candidate's commitments, character, integrity, and ability to influence a given issue. In the end, this is a decision to be made by each Catholic guided by a conscience formed by Catholic moral teaching.


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Faster horses

Well-known member
Traveler said:
http://dougellingsworth.com/2016/07/21/so-you-arent-gonna-vote-for-president/

So, you aren’t going to vote for President? You can’t stomach either of the candidates, and your conscience won’t let you cast a ballot for either?

That’s certainly your right as an American citizen. And you’ll have plenty of company. Millions of Americans stay at home every election day for every reason under the sun. As a matter of fact, there will probably be more of you sitting at home than there will be those of us who will actually decide the future direction of our country by voting.

Like you, I wish we had better choices, but this is the bottom line: on January 20, 2017, barring some tragic catastrophe, either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will put his hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution as our next President. While it may be the first time in a long time that either of them has actually touched a Bible, it will still be one of those two. Like it or lump it, those are our choices. No write-in or third-party candidate is going to garner enough support to win a ticket for the self-guided White House tour that’s free every morning except Sunday and Monday — let alone become the official resident there. It will either be President Clinton or President Trump.

If you don’t vote, that’s your business. But I want to make sure I understand what you are really saying when you choose to sit this one out.

I know that Donald is arrogant and Hillary has more baggage than most major airlines. He has the see-through combover of a man clinging to his teens, and she has the grating voice of a perpetually angry wife. He celebrates family, and rightly so — he has three or four. She makes millions from the financial houses she pretends to condemn. The deeper you look, the more you question how in the world did these two get here?

I’d understand why you aren’t voting if it all ended right there.

But it doesn’t.

Whoever gets the most votes in November is moving to Washington D.C. in January. And they are bringing a whole boatload of people with them.

The outcome of this election will do much more than decide whether it’s Donald or Hillary who will occupy the Oval Office. Will the IRS continue giving conservative Christian groups the run-around, or will a new leader move in? Will the leaders who allowed Americans to die in Benghazi serve four more years, or will a new President bring with him/her a new team who puts lives above politics?

Will this election send leaders to DC who will aggressively respond to those threatening and killing police officers, or will our capital be filled with folks who think police are the problem? Will leaders committed to protecting traditional family values come to town, or will more of those obsessed with gender blending experiments occupy places of influence?

Will our new leader’s team try to spur economic growth by reducing taxes and encouraging hard work, or will they seek higher taxes while pushing for a $15 per hour minimum wage? Will they be tree-hugging, global-warming alarmists, or will they encourage the continued production of our inexpensive fuel sources while newer sources are being developed?

Come January, one of those groups is moving in. But you don’t care which one so you aren’t going to vote?

The vote isn’t just for President. It’s for Supreme Court Justices. You know, those guys who said that forcing American’s to buy health insurance is legal, but marriage defined as one man and one woman isn’t. The new President could appoint as many as four new members of that group. But never mind how that works out, right? It’s not important enough for you to vote.

You say personal convictions keep you from voting for a person who doesn’t hold certain values. Okay. But if being true to your conviction results in creating a less safe, more unfriendly, and more anti-Jesus world for your children to grow up in, well, right there is where I lose you. Sure, you can say that you didn’t vote to let Donald or Hillary move into the White House, but you can’t say that you did what you could to keep the most evil influences out of positions of authority.

It’s so easy to see this election as just choosing either Donald or Hillary. But it’s way more than that. It’s hundreds of bureaucratic leaders, Cabinet officers, and Supreme Court Justices. It’s military readiness, global warming, healthcare revisions. It’s redefining family, expanding sexual experimentation, shrinking Constitutional freedoms.

It’s not just about Trump or Clinton. It’s about the philosophy and future of our country. That’s why, even though I don’t particularly like either candidate, I will cast my vote.

Not to mention whether we let a million more Muslims in the country like Hillary wants, or get rid of the death tax like Trump wants.

Excellent! I sent it to a relative who says she isn't going to vote. I hope and pray this changes her mind. Thanks for sharing it. So much is at stake.
 

Steve

Well-known member
The truth is -- Donald Trump is hard to predict. And thus shouting down and denigrating those who share a common vision for America accomplishes little. This infighting unnecessarily divides people of good will, and too often only boosts the egos of those throwing stones. Civil and substantive criticism of both Clinton and Trump is necessary; personal slandering of friend and neighbor is not.

hard to argue with that part. An unpredictable candidate who constantly resorts to shouting down and denigrating those who share a common vision for America. describes trump to a T.

In the end many my hold their noses and vote for trump, But we need to fix our primary process so this NEVER happens again.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Steve said:
The truth is -- Donald Trump is hard to predict. And thus shouting down and denigrating those who share a common vision for America accomplishes little. This infighting unnecessarily divides people of good will, and too often only boosts the egos of those throwing stones. Civil and substantive criticism of both Clinton and Trump is necessary; personal slandering of friend and neighbor is not.

hard to argue with that part. An unpredictable candidate who constantly resorts to shouting down and denigrating those who share a common vision for America. describes trump to a T.

In the end many my hold their noses and vote for trump, But we need to fix our primary process so this NEVER happens again.

You might want to rethink the relationship & timeline between Trump and Cruz. First, they were accused of having a "Bromance" until the "New York Values" statement by Cruz, where Ted got totally humiliated by Trumps response. It got ugly from there. The next debate Rubio & Cruz clearly ganged up on Trump (shook hands behind Trump's back), besmerched him every way they could but still got nowhere. Rubio started the name calling by using the term liar about Trump. It had been civil up until that point. Cruz fell right in behind Rubio with the name calling.

Trump was not the one who started the denigrating and shouting down his opponents if you look back on it. Cruz & Rubio were desparate and Rubio was the first to appear silly, got beat in Florida and dropped out. When the nude picture of Melania appeared on the Cruz Super-Pac and Trump hit back at Heidi, the gloves came off.

Appeared to me that Cruz was just as guilty of name calling as Trump was. But Trump is still standing, so he's the one talked about. Cruz is now irrelevant because he got pissed off & couldn't keep his cool, not an asset in the Whitehouse. And when Cruz & Kasich came up with that brilliant strategy to gang up on Trump in Indiana, (NOT) the voters really turned on him and saw him for what he looks like, a 1930's Bible salesman.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Apparently believing that his nemesis, “Lyin’ Ted,” was behind the ad, a furious Trump responded Tuesday night, as Utah voters handed a decisive victory to Cruz, by threatening to “spill the beans” about the Texas senator’s wife.

yep, jumping off a bridge without real facts seems to be about the MO of trump..
 

mrj

Well-known member
Plenty of 'food for thought' there, and in the comments, too.

The Repubs really botched the Primary election with the over-the-top bickering and just plain foolish accusations against one another. It was as if they didn't realize one of them would end up being the candidate! Many of us truly did, from the first 'debate' feel like the only sensible vote would have been "none of the above"......and felt we really had so few good choices after they all, to one degree or another descended into the abyss of bad taste, at best!

And yet, compared with Hilary, anyone of them is better! Now I feel I'm left with the choice of Trump, who IF he was a shyster of a businessman, was 'taking' OTHER shysters, while Hilary was stealing from ALL of us with her corrupt 'speeches for promised government favors' to corrupt corporations!

Today is my 76th birthday, along with my cousins' 66th, and my first grandsons' 32nd birthdays. Lots for us to celebrate! Except for only being able to HOPE we live long enough to have a candidate for the highest office of our nation for whom we can vote enthusiastically with the knowledge that candidate will serve honorably and well!

mrj
 

Traveler

Well-known member
mrj said:
Plenty of 'food for thought' there, and in the comments, too.

The Repubs really botched the Primary election with the over-the-top bickering and just plain foolish accusations against one another. It was as if they didn't realize one of them would end up being the candidate! Many of us truly did, from the first 'debate' feel like the only sensible vote would have been "none of the above"......and felt we really had so few good choices after they all, to one degree or another descended into the abyss of bad taste, at best!

And yet, compared with Hilary, anyone of them is better! Now I feel I'm left with the choice of Trump, who IF he was a shyster of a businessman, was 'taking' OTHER shysters, while Hilary was stealing from ALL of us with her corrupt 'speeches for promised government favors' to corrupt corporations!

Today is my 76th birthday, along with my cousins' 66th, and my first grandsons' 32nd birthdays. Lots for us to celebrate! Except for only being able to HOPE we live long enough to have a candidate for the highest office of our nation for whom we can vote enthusiastically with the knowledge that candidate will serve honorably and well!

mrj
Happy Birthday mrj! Don't forget about all of the big donations to the Clinton Foundation in return for big favors, and paid "speeches" by Bill, while SOS.
 

Steve

Well-known member
mrj said:
Plenty of 'food for thought' there, and in the comments, too.
And yet, compared with Hilary, anyone of them is better! Now I feel I'm left with the choice of Trump, who IF he was a shyster of a businessman, was 'taking' OTHER shysters, while Hilary was stealing from ALL of us with her corrupt 'speeches for promised government favors' to corrupt corporations!

mrj

Happy belated Birthday, but I do need to correct one thing in your comment..

MANY of the business affected by Trump's bankruptcies were small businesses and they in turn fail leaving others to carry that financial debt.

The other shysters, that were involved left employees and contractors and the bond holders out in the cold as well and walked away unfazed. the real loser being the guy who could not afford a seat at Trump's table.

I know some of these folk and some will never recover the loses. both in financial terms and in the stress of seeing everything you worked for wiped out and told sorry nothing left for you.
 

Steve

Well-known member
W.T said:
If you are not going to vote then shut up and quit bitchin , As you do not have the right to complain.

Not sure who you are talking to .. I will vote, maybe just not for Trump

either way,.. I can complain as much as I want ,.. I have that right ,.. something about a Constitution and serving my country

I am not only blessed with that right but I earned it as well. and I served to protect that constitution so everyone could have the same rights.

If they do not vote I may ignore them, but they still have the right to complain, just as you have the right to make an ignorant comment towards someone.

I would say more but I have to log off to go to an appointment at the VA.
 

W.T

Well-known member
Steve said:
W.T said:
If you are not going to vote then shut up and quit bitchin , As you do not have the right to complain.

Not sure who you are talking to .. I will vote, maybe just not for Trump

either way,.. I can complain as much as I want ,.. I have that right ,.. something about a Constitution and serving my country

I am not only blessed with that right but I earned it as well. and I served to protect that constitution so everyone could have the same rights.

If they do not vote I may ignore them, but they still have the right to complain, just as you have the right to make an ignorant comment towards someone.

I would say more but I have to log off to go to an appointment at the VA.



Great then don't Vote. Your loss.
 

Steve

Well-known member
W.T said:
Steve said:
W.T said:
If you are not going to vote then shut up and quit bitchin , As you do not have the right to complain.

Not sure who you are talking to .. I will vote, maybe just not for Trump

either way,.. I can complain as much as I want ,.. I have that right ,.. something about a Constitution and serving my country

I am not only blessed with that right but I earned it as well. and I served to protect that constitution so everyone could have the same rights.

If they do not vote I may ignore them, but they still have the right to complain, just as you have the right to make an ignorant comment towards someone.

I would say more but I have to log off to go to an appointment at the VA.



Great then don't Vote. Your loss.

Is it just me or is attacking other conservatives for having a differing view the only defense trump and his supported have?

you folk are destroying the party and any chance of him winning.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Is it just me or is attacking other conservatives for having a differing view the only defense trump and his supported have?

you folk are destroying the party and any chance of him winning.

Trump is the Republican nominee and a vote for anyone other than him is a direct vote for Hillary. How is that so hard to understand?

See the above statement for who is actually destroying his chance of winning.
 
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