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Still grazing PureCountry - lots of pics

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
Yes, PureCountry we are still grazing out in the west country. Took a mile hike this afternoon to check on my mature cows and open the gate into their next block. It was -20C but with wind chill supposed to be about -30C. Tough walking but I reckon if I expect my cows to graze I should get a real idea of what conditions are like - snow depth, grass quantity, drifts etc. Your climate still scares the crap out of me sometimes but with careful watching I'm increasing my comfort zone with regard to winter grazing.
A research guy was telling me the other day that what I was doing was leading edge in the area :???: I thought I was more a lunatic fringe type of operator :lol2: :lol2:
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Heading cross country to the cows - get the chance for some easier walking (on water) a few times as the river meanders through this area.
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Onto pastures new.
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Some nice fescue in this loop of the river.
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Eager grazers.
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Communal grazing when they find a lush relatively clear spot.
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A wise loner (I was curious and upon closer inspection see she found a patch of clover with the little heads showing through)
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Thin crust of snow on top where the grass is thickest - this will be easy for the cows to access.
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Heading home through the last block to graze - should be late January before we need to start feeding. Will resume grazing banked grass in early April once the snow goes.
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Pulled the snow aside to show the volume. This pasture was ungrazed all growing season so quality will be lower. As long as we have volume we don't worry too much about quality in the deep snow season.
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The reason ?? - we are selecting for a cow type that can handle our conditions versus alter our system to suit cow type. This is where we select our herd for feed efficiency - not by putting our young bulls in a feedlot "feed efficiency" test.
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A young Angus cow that is new to the system - note the dramatically less gut fill on her than the last cows. Not picking on Angus there are good and bad types in all breeds but we find a higher proportion of our Luings to be the right type for our system.
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Another horrible cow type for our system - I guess I should quit buying these cheap cows - with the higher percentage of culls and higher feed needs they don't finish up so cheap.
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Cultivated land right through the fence - almost bare down to the dirt. Our banked grass really holds onto the snow and I'm sure that helps our moisture in the summer.
 

Ben H

Well-known member
I think this is the number one thing that has helped my profit. Today was the first day of the season grazing through snow, we got about 3-4" last night. I haven't played with grazing early though, I've been curious about grass that you don't get to when you get too much snow and leave for when the snow melts. I'm guessing snowmobiles would ruin your banked grass.
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
Great to see GF, thanks for sharing. I've got a few of those "horrible type" cows that need to go yet. The deep fleshy cows that are the heart of the program are back in the hills, but some of those leggier types came across the field today, walking into the wind, and stood at the gate bawling for a handout.
 

per

Well-known member
Looks great GF. Your Lunatic Fringe looks good to me. I procrastinated feeding anything and they all went back to work. Too windy still to move the calves back to where they should be. Tomorrow. I have a water question for you. I am lucky to have good water most everywhere so I keep it in front of them. When going to snow do you have a transitional period or when the snow arrives they are on snow?
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
We switched ours to snow yesterday-I stay away from them completely for about 3-4 days when they are transitioning or they get feeling sorry for themselves-were kind of grazing our spring grass this winter but I'm not going to have many cattle around next year. Went for a little drive today-lots of big exotic cows with their heads buried in feeders already. Straight hereford cows topped the bred sale at $1030-he had a 100 head in their probanbly averaged right at a $1,000.
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
:agree:
We quit ours as soon as we get adequate snow and don't go near for 3 or 4 days. Our own cows are no problem because they are used to it - just a few of these new cows I added that probably went cold turkey. They seem to have adjusted ok though.

A question for you Per - how do you winter your solar system batteries? Can I just park my water trailer with the panels pointing south and let the sun keep the batteries charged or should I be bringing them into the house out of the cold?
 

per

Well-known member
Grassfarmer said:
:agree:
We quit ours as soon as we get adequate snow and don't go near for 3 or 4 days. Our own cows are no problem because they are used to it - just a few of these new cows I added that probably went cold turkey. They seem to have adjusted ok though.

A question for you Per - how do you winter your solar system batteries? Can I just park my water trailer with the panels pointing south and let the sun keep the batteries charged or should I be bringing them into the house out of the cold?

I just leave them out in the sun but I think they would be better brought in. My only battery system is older and doesn't have a controller so the batteries can boil. I have saver caps but they do take some checking. I prefer the battery less system. The well that the battery system is on started flowing (coincidentally during an aggressive shallow gas drilling play) and we haven't used the batteries for a couple of years. That is why I asked about the snow because where the young cows go next I could move panels there or since we have lots of snow let God take care of their water needs.
 

Blkbuckaroo

Well-known member
Wish i had banked grass like that,most guys have been feeding for a couple weeks to a month or more,soon as my cows see the light on in the house,the feed yard being across the road,it's baling till fed,drives me crazy :? Once they go on unemployment they don't come off till april,just like thier local human counterparts around here :p :roll: :wink:
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
I didn't have banked grass very much till this year-sold our yearlings because of being sick. For years we just assumed we'd feed in late Oct till first of May a few less cattle around can help the grass situation for sure. Right now it's probably costing $1-$1.20 a day to winter cows-not sure what to value stockpiled grass at-we usually charge it out to sumnmer grazing. If you regard as a salvage operation with no real out of pocket cost a month extra grazing is like adding $7/cwt to that cows 500 pound calf. It's minus thirty this A'M and they're still out there picking.
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
The costs are pretty simple to work out on my place NR as we are buying all our winter feed and some of our pasture. Our silage ration for cows this winter will cost $1.55/day before we add yardage to deliver it to them and the grazing they are on costs $0.75/day. With our targeted winter feeding period of 80 days maximum this winter on mature cows versus 200+ on regular systems around here we are saving close to $100 on actual feed cost plus 120 days of yardage cost delivering the feed. Realistically $150+ saving per cow which equates to a 30 cent/lb reduction on the cost of weaning a 500lb calves. Winter grazing versus hay feeding makes more difference to profitability than any other part of our operation.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
I'm sure there are cows up here will be well over the $2 mark-the outfits where the stackyard dwarfs the cowherd. Winter grazing is a learned behavior it doesn't hurt for those young cattle to go out and rustle a bit.
 

Silver

Well-known member
I'm a pretty big fan of having a feedyard that dwarfs the cowherd. Hay in the corral is money in the bank in these parts, and damn cheap insurance too. I'm not going to be one of those outfits I see around here letting their mother cows rustle til Jan and lose condition only to try to feed condition back onto them, all the while patting themselves on the back for their above average intelligence and bragging about their shortened feeding period. In these parts you don't put condition back on a pregnant cow.
There are obviously parts where people get away with late winter grazing, and that's great, but I have no interest in trying it around here until someone can guarantee me my feed wont be trapped under two feet of snow with a 6" crust on it, and that the elk won't out compete the cows for what is available.
Hay isn't that expensive to put up around here either, at least in the grand scheme of things.
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
You certainly have different circumstances to deal with than I do Silver. We don't get snow like you do, and the local elk herd hasn't come this far North yet. Hope they don't either, damn Mulies and Whitetails graze enough pasture as it is.

As for winter grazing, it really is a systems approach. You want to have the cows in great shape like GF's are, with that insulation on their back. And you don't winter graze cows that are calving in January/February. Spring calvers can stand to lose a little condition, depending on body type and how fat they are going into winter. It won't hurt them, it's natural behavior for all animals to try and put the lard on in fall, so they can spare some to get 'em through winter.

One thing we have found makes a huge difference is letting the calves winter graze as well. They learn how to do it from the best teacher they have, grazing along side them. When those heifer calves become cows, they're already old hands at pawing through snow, eating snow, or browsing brush and various forage.

I have a friend who has beef cows, bison and elk. He says when the snow gets too deep or crusty for the beef cows in their paddock, he turns the bison in with them. The cows learn quick to just follow along behind the bison and it's easy pickin's.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
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Here's my little darlings out in minus 38-I wasn't about to walk out to get a closer picture-I used to love balers and big cows too-but the romance ended. There's still too many guys up here that think home grown hay is somehow free-can't figure that one out. Some guys swath graze their native meadows instead of baling it which saves alot of costs but if the status quo floats your boat more power to you.
 

Denny

Well-known member
Why don't you take a picture of them in 2 months up close.Then we'll see what they really look like.

I can put up 200 bales of meadow hay by myself in 3 or 4 days pretty good wages for my pocket not someone else's. When you go buying hay your paying someone else's wages fuel and machinery expences.Meadow hay here is 10% shares or about $2 a bale stumpage.

Meadowhay Is all they would need right now and it's cheap. To me it looks like your pens are picked pretty tight other than the weed's pokeing up here and there.

I guess you can sit in the warm house and watch them out digging and picking. I can't or I won't if you own them take care of them or get rid of them.
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
2:49 am, Denny do you ever sleep? :lol:

Let's all sit back and take a breath, in through the nose, out through the mouth. The cows in Northern's pic are a good 250-300yds from the house I'd say. How do you know there isn't better pickings where they are? And I'm sure if they start getting thin, he's going to feed them. No sense in criticizing one another folks, different strokes remember.......
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
I am surprised that cows in the north country get by so well with only snow for water. The axiom I grew up with was that horses can get by with only snow for water, but cattle can't. If horses are pawing for grass in a pasture, then snow only is okay. If they are getting hay, then horses also need water daily or they can colic. A long-standing rule for this country, especially after a major snowstorm, has been: "If you can't give cattle access to water, don't give them any feed, either." It seems bloat and dying were problems if that advice wasn't followed. The "longest" winter I can remember was 1978-1979, with snow on the ground from early November until well into April of that season. One large outfit in the south hills lost a multitude of cattle from lack of water. There was plenty of snow and it was plenty deep at the time, that was for sure.
 

RSL

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
I am surprised that cows in the north country get by so well with only snow for water. The axiom I grew up with was that horses can get by with only snow for water, but cattle can't. If horses are pawing for grass in a pasture, then snow only is okay. If they are getting hay, then horses also need water daily or they can colic. A long-standing rule for this country, especially after a major snowstorm, has been: "If you can't give cattle access to water, don't give them any feed, either." It seems bloat and dying were problems if that advice wasn't followed. The "longest" winter I can remember was 1978-1979, with snow on the ground from early November until well into April of that season. One large outfit in the south hills lost a multitude of cattle from lack of water. There was plenty of snow and it was plenty deep at the time, that was for sure.
That's funny, I grew up on that same one up here. U of A did some work on snow for water, and we now run cows on snow for a good part of the winter. There can be a huge difference in snow covers, particularly hard crusted snow, or icy snow vs. softer snow pack. We have not had a problem with cows eating snow and ones that have grown up on the system often will not even head 1/4 mile into the yard for water if there is snow around when they come home.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Nothing like the righteous indignation of a heavy feeder-we extend our grazing season we don't try and eliminate it-I grew up with a mother who said the word CAN'T isn't in our dictionary. I guess if people aree unwilling to try something different they will never know. The only thing between those cows and the yard is a one wire gate with no power on it-I'm sure they'd be on the doorstep if they were feeling the pinch. Soapweed we kind of twigged on they can live fine on snow when they quit coming up to water. You watch a cow drink in minus 40 from a dugout she's a shivering unit for a longgg time. We have maybe ten days of graze left then we'll be feeding like everybody else. Denny the easiest cattle to run are simebody elses any rancher knows that.
 
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