• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Teaching the girls to eat cake

Help Support Ranchers.net:

Soapweed

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
16,257
Reaction score
42
Location
northern Nebraska Sandhills
Half our heifer calves are now weaned and eating meadow aftergrass. Now we are teaching them to eat 20% protein cake off of the ground. I like to feed them the first few times by walking through them on foot, and feeding them from paper sacks. By leaving the sacks temporarily on the ground near the cake, the heifers are curious to check out the sack. When they smell it, they find the feed and then they are your buddy.

FalldayintheSandhills.jpg

Fall day in the Sandhills, Saddletramp's house in the background
Futurecows.jpg

Future cows
Goodstuff.jpg

Good stuff
Meadowgrassandcake.jpg

Meadow grass and cake
Nottoowild.jpg

Not too wild
Muellerscake.jpg

Mueller's cake
Sandhillsscene.jpg

Sandhills scene
Blackwithafewwhitefaces.jpg

Black, with a few white faces
Theyarefiguringitout.jpg

They are figuring it out
Twosonsadaughter-in-lawandagranddog.jpg

Two sons, a daughter-in-law, and a granddog
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
22,037
Reaction score
254
Location
Big Muddy valley
Glad you posted some pics Soap as My head was spinning and I was going cross eyed reading over on Bull Session. Your calves are looking good. Nice to beable to have them out on grass and supplement them.
I sorted off our steers and turned them in a small pasture but have to feed them as the grass is short. My Hfrs are still in the corral eating at the bunk. I have a fellow hoping to come and buy some replacements and maybe leave them for me to winter. Hope to trail the hfrs out to grass when we get squared away as to give the daughter and her 2yr olds some riding to do.
 

DOC HARRIS

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
821
Reaction score
0
Location
Ft. Collins, CO
Soapweed-

Great looking heifers! I can detect high EPD's on WW, YH, and I see that you have established proper contemporary groupings to provide necessary records to generate EPD's. And their temperment EPD's are reasonably high for docility also. Well done! I am proud of you!

DOC HARRIS
 

PPRM

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,951
Reaction score
0
Location
NE Oregon
LOL,

Doc,


Did have a question. When I chose Rito 6I6 ti breed hiefers to, one of the things that sold me was different guys raving over the dispostitions. I picked up a Select Sires Flyer at the Washington Cattlemans. He was in thre and it said, "The Disposition King". It got me to wondering when there will be an indicator or index.......not joking on this one.....

This site sold me on staying away from EXT... I was looking at GAR Predestined until I saw the EXT as the Maternal Grand Sire.

After the Steer Futurity, I have decided to go for some IMF, but don't want to slip on growth. My Calves Graded out high Select to Low Choice, Ribeye area was a real tight grouping at 14.1.....I don't want to go Downhill on REA. My goal is also 875-900 pound Carcasses. I have the feed to do this. As you can tell, I sell on the grid. I have pulled two calves in the last 5 years, both out of first calf hiefers last year. I would like to keep the pullers gathering dust as I can't watch the cows calve.


Anyway, a couple of younger bulls caught my eye. GAR Preeminent has some great carcass numbers. He is a precision and Prime Time bred calf. Rito 4612 is another one that is a Rito 1I2 and Prime Time bred calf. GAR New Design 5050 has some prety good growth with carcass. He is 036 and Precision Bred.

GAR Integrity lacks some growth for my program but is also pretty good looking calf. He is a Traveler and Precision bred calf.....

I only saw a picture, but wish preeiminent had a little more eye appeal. Ido hate 2 dimensional pictures, but have to assume they spent the money to put the best foot forward.

Anyway, your thoughts on this and disposition would be appreciated,

PPRM
 

DOC HARRIS

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
821
Reaction score
0
Location
Ft. Collins, CO
PPRM-
This will require a little time and a longer answer than I want to take up on the forum.. I'll get a PM to you hopefully tomorrow. (Maybe today :roll: )

DOC HARRIS
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
PPRM and DOC-- Interesting you talking about disposition...Seems as I'm seeing more and more of the breeders breeding for and evaluating their sale cattle for disposition....Yesterday I was talking with an old friend that just got back from the sale at Deboo's Diamond D Angus of Valier Mt....He was commenting about the great dispositions on the cattle which is one of the things they index in their sale catalog on each animal and/or its mother...He's owned their bulls before and was pleased with them--I think he said that he bought 2 bulls and 3 bred heifers- thought the bulls averaged well over $3000 and the heifers around $2500.....Too pricey for me....

Few years ago they were a pretty unknown angus breeder--but by staying the course with true moderate framed cattle, improving maternal qualities and working on disposition they have built up quite a following....
 

pknoeber

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
108
Reaction score
0
Location
SW KS
PPRM, not sure if you've been there but if you go to www.gardinerangus.com you could get their phone # and call them. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to help get you whatever info you need to make your decision. I'd be amazed if anybody has taken any better records for longer than they have. Good luck.
Phil
 

Angus Breeder

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
156
Reaction score
0
PPRM, I think you have some really good bulls lined up. Here's my experience with those listed. First GAR Preeminent is a good choice. I have seen the bull in person and is real easy to look at, with good numbers to boot. Your second choice of 4612 I don't know much about. We have however bred several cows to his sire Rito 1I2 and have been very impressed. The calves are very flashy and grow fast. We have only had one contempary group ultrasounded and they were above average. The third choice of 5050 I have a question about. I do not have my SS book in front of me, but I think I have heard his calves are expected to be smaller framed. As far as Integrity goes, those calves are not guaranteed to be small framed. Our 30 Integrity calves proably average 6.3 frame. We also own a full brother to Integrity who is a 6.4 frame. I think as long as you have cows that are at least a 6 frame any of these bulls will sire some very profitable carcass cattle. Hope this helped.
 

Nicky

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,160
Reaction score
47
Location
N.E. Oregon
Nice pics, nice hiefers, nice kids :) How did the Cosmo kid like the FFA convention?
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
16,257
Reaction score
42
Location
northern Nebraska Sandhills
Nicky said:
Nice pics, nice hiefers, nice kids :) How did the Cosmo kid like the FFA convention?

Thanks. He had a good time at the convention, though the fifteen hour bus ride from Nebraska to Louisville got a bit long. He said he never saw so many people all under one roof in his life.
 

PPRM

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,951
Reaction score
0
Location
NE Oregon
Thanks for the feedback..... I have the resources to run big cows, mine mature in the 1300-1700 pound range. I still like lower birthwieghts as I can't babysit. But like I said, my goal is for larger carcass wieghts and to upgrade my grid performance. I have done well, but the steer futurity indicates many of the choice may be low choice, I'd like to be a bit more solid than that. As a side, the majority of producers calves averaged a 4 pound per day gain. I know environment played a role, but I think with the gentics, this will become more common....

Interesting times we live in. Debate is that starting to feed early results in lwer wts. but better grades..... Some stuff on implants magnifying this....My hunch is you can background and get frame as long as you don't starve them, you can get the grade to..... Maybe it s more of a hope than hunch...Naw, I just thought back to the creep fedding I did last year. Those calves were thick and solid, I think they will grade well and be better framed.....that probably should have been in a different thread, but I guess it counts, it was inspired by Soapweeds nice calves....Nice job Soap,


PPRM
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
16,257
Reaction score
42
Location
northern Nebraska Sandhills
There are sure many different "schools of thought" on how to run a ranch. The local Bennett County Bootstraps group got together last evening in Martin, South Dakota. We listened to over two hours of Kit Pharo's videos, from a talk he gave in Missouri in December of 2003. Of course, his philosophy is all about "low input ranching" and he does have some good ideas. My own motto being "all things in moderation", I would be very hesitant to dive into his program completely head first.

For one thing, I would think he could accomplish his goals by using just one breed of cattle, instead of a Duke's mixture. He says it wouldn't matter if the cattle were purple, as long as they performed. Heck, it's hard enough to sell gray ones, let alone purple. :wink:

Kit is a "master" at his profession, and he probably makes as much on the promotion of his ideas as he actually does from the execution of the plan. As long as he can convince others that it is the way to go, he can market several hundred $3000-something frame score 2-4 bulls. Without the promotion part, the bulls would be small steers in most people's programs. I admire him as "a man with a plan". He has the master's touch, but I've also seen a ranch or two following his plan that looked to be total wrecks.

Just my thoughts. I'll quit before I make everybody mad.

Anyway, it is always interesting to listen to different points of view.
 

PPRM

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,951
Reaction score
0
Location
NE Oregon
Soap,

A lot goes back to matching the cattle to the resources you have. I think too many people jump on stuff without keeping this in mind.....


Heck, I buy the grey's, usually do well and I can get them at a discount....The old saying, once the hide's off

PPRM
 

Jason

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,994
Reaction score
0
Location
Alberta Canada
Soapweed said:
Kit is a "master" at his profession, and he probably makes as much on the promotion of his ideas as he actually does from the execution of the plan. As long as he can convince others that it is the way to go, he can market several hundred $3000-something frame score 2-4 bulls. Without the promotion part, the bulls would be small steers in most people's programs. I admire him as "a man with a plan". He has the master's touch, but I've also seen a ranch or two following his plan that looked to be total wrecks.

Just my thoughts. I'll quit before I make everybody mad.

Anyway, it is always interesting to listen to different points of view.

You said a mouthful there Soap.

Promotion is job 1 in the 'purebred' thing. Being third generation in the Angus I have seen firsthand what fads and trends do for you.

Keeping an eye on where the industry is headed is the first step to running a profitable ranch. Cows too small or too big won't cut it. When I was writing our sale catalouges pre/BSE moderate was the code word for runt, some really good stretch meant big big big!!!

It's much better having customers who could care less about all that clipping and glue.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
28,971
Reaction score
274
Location
NE WY at the foot of the Big Horn mountains
Soap, I always appreciate your cool head in these situations. Looks to me like your philosophy of "everything in moderation" has stood the test of time.

Also, "if it's not broke, why fix it?" fits well often times too.

Not that I am narrow-minded, because I am not (at least I sure hope not). What bothers me is the personal GAIN that comes about when swaying people one way or the other. You must figure that in the equasion when listening to new ideas.

There was a fellow (lawyer) from Miles City that was promoting a big feedlot in Miles City. Went around holding meetings to get investors in order to do what he wanted to do. His track record wasn't very good, so the idea never saw the light of day~anyway on the scale he wanted and as far as I know~and now I see his basic feedlot equipment is up for auction. Too many people thought there was too much PERSONAL gain to become part of the plan. That is what we have to remember...who will gain the most from making changes. If it is beneficial to your operation, then proceed.

Diamond D Angus has a program based on smaller type cattle, (they aren't little, but they are smaller framed), had a barn burner of a sale last week. They have kept their focus and stayed on a program that is now paying off. They have no cooperative breeders, just their own cattle. I heard that a man from Nebraska involved with Tallgrass Beef bought a lot of bulls and paid over $5000 for them.

Many of the cattle in the Pharo catalog are out of commercial cows, and that's okay, BUT the prices don't reflect the lack of genetic information. Guess you can't knock Kit for being successful. And I must say, we have a friend that has bought his forage tested bulls and is completely happy with them. Personally, I am afraid the Pharo bulls lack some basic nutrition that is necessary at a young age. But who am I to say...
 

Jason

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,994
Reaction score
0
Location
Alberta Canada
Personally, I am afraid the Pharo bulls lack some basic nutrition that is necessary at a young age. But who am I to say...

You might have a good point there F H. I have seen guys who lack the genetics to gain well claim it is their desire not to burn up the bulls as the reason they are small and immature.

From experience I know lack of nutrition in young animals is almost as bad as too much. Dry years give you a real education.

The feed bucket being too large makes average cattle look pretty good. Being too small makes even good bulls look poor. An astute cattleman/woman may be able to tell the difference, but most people with cattle do not fit that category.

In my experience, people that raise something uncommon either in breed or framesize lack the abiltiy to compete in a larger group. They don't understand genetics and rely on the rarity factor to sell below average cattle.

There is always a market for good cattle, our BSE experience is proof of this. Good cattle sold, the poor ones sometimes were unsaleable.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
28,971
Reaction score
274
Location
NE WY at the foot of the Big Horn mountains
I appreciate your comments, Jason. I think you said a mouthful, certainly food for thought. And again, it goes back to Soapweeds, "everything in moderation." You need to meet the animals requirements, not exceed them, nor not meet them. As one of my customers wisely said once, "we cannot afford to underfeed our cattle, but we cannot afford to overfeed them either."

Genetics and nutrition. That's what it is all about. Seems hard to achieve the best of one without the other.

It also seems to me, with my limited knowledge, that if you short cattle when they are young, you pay for it later. And vice-versa.

Thanks for your reply.
 

TSR

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
2,115
Reaction score
0
PPRM said:
LOL,

Doc,


Did have a question. When I chose Rito 6I6 ti breed hiefers to, one of the things that sold me was different guys raving over the dispostitions. I picked up a Select Sires Flyer at the Washington Cattlemans. He was in thre and it said, "The Disposition King". It got me to wondering when there will be an indicator or index.......not joking on this one.....

This site sold me on staying away from EXT... I was looking at GAR Predestined until I saw the EXT as the Maternal Grand Sire.

After the Steer Futurity, I have decided to go for some IMF, but don't want to slip on growth. My Calves Graded out high Select to Low Choice, Ribeye area was a real tight grouping at 14.1.....I don't want to go Downhill on REA. My goal is also 875-900 pound Carcasses. I have the feed to do this. As you can tell, I sell on the grid. I have pulled two calves in the last 5 years, both out of first calf hiefers last year. I would like to keep the pullers gathering dust as I can't watch the cows calve.


Anyway, a couple of younger bulls caught my eye. GAR Preeminent has some great carcass numbers. He is a precision and Prime Time bred calf. Rito 4612 is another one that is a Rito 1I2 and Prime Time bred calf. GAR New Design 5050 has some prety good growth with carcass. He is 036 and Precision Bred.

GAR Integrity lacks some growth for my program but is also pretty good looking calf. He is a Traveler and Precision bred calf.....

I only saw a picture, but wish preeiminent had a little more eye appeal. Ido hate 2 dimensional pictures, but have to assume they spent the money to put the best foot forward.

Anyway, your thoughts on this and disposition would be appreciated,

PPRM

PPRM Do you walk around your cattle often? Say 3-4 times a week? If you do, I don't believe you would have any trouble with EXT cattle. Of course there are always exceptions but I have several EXTs and I have yet to see a disposition problem. But I don't just turn them loose and check them once in a while, I try to check them every day. I believe that is one very important factor many times in determining whether you have disposition problems or not. I used EXT primarily because I just can't stand bad udders and he is one of the best ,if not the best, in siring nice udders. I have a 6I6 yearling bull now and he isn't wild but I don't see anything spectacular about his disposition. Of course this is based on one animal. I would gladly trade my remaining 6I6 semen for some Gar Expectation 4915 (an ext son) similar epds to 6I6 but with quite a bit more performance, in my opinion.
 

hometowngurl

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
189
Reaction score
2
Location
east of dad's old place.
hey soapweed , are them there sacks "extra fiber" or just for advertisment? :lol: :lol: nice lookin' calves, almost as nice as ours that sold last week. :D as for gentle calves , we used to hand feed the calves, there would be a few that would trust us and eat straight out of our hands. it sure is neat when they do that. :D :D :lol:
 

Latest posts

Top