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HAY MAKER

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Anyone who's seen an R-Calf and NCBA debate comes away convinced the NCBA
doesn't have anyone as articulate as R-Calf CEO, Bill Bullard. NCBA represents
"the industry" - producers, packers, retailers. R-Calf represents just
producers. Bullard told a recent crowd "that the only reason R-Calf USA exists
is because the entire industry was headed in one direction - toward vertical
integration. 'Packers are trying to turn the feeding sector into a non-
competitive subsidiary of the packers themselves. Packers told us that demand
for consistent quality products were leading many firms to exert greater
control over the supply chain. We (cattle producers) cannot be unified (with
the packers) because we have different interests. The packers already have two
organizations representing them: the American Meat Institute (AMI) and the
National Meat Association (NMA). The producers are the only sector that does
not have their own, exclusive organization representing them. You cannot
compete as widely dispersed, independent producers unless you are united under
an organization strong enough and large enough to affect the outcome.'"

Producer-packer-retailers have differing interests within "the industry"
and many times these interests conflict with one another. My observation has
been that when this happens, the NCBA almost never represents the producers'
interest, instead conceding to what they perceive as "industry agenda" which
virtually always coincides with AMI policy. It's not a coincidence. The NCBA
puts industry cohesion above producer interests, achieving that goal by
accepting a subservient position within the supply chain for producers. My
producer interests are not the same as packers' and others within the supply
chain. I need an organization that holds my interests as paramount. ICA policy
is being set by NCBA so they are one in the same.

R-Calf, with 18,000 members, now bills itself as the largest "voluntary"
cattleman's group in the U.S. Many of the NCBA's memberships are involuntary.
If you feed cattle in many custom lots, they automatically dun you for an NCBA
membership. Differing from the NCBA, which represents interests of varied
sectors of the beef industry, R-Calf represents producers exclusively and has
subsequently attracted grassroots appeal not apparent for NCBA. R-Calf has a
goal of reaching 25,000 members to become the indisputably largest cattle
organization in the U.S.
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Jason

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Explain the part where each segment of the industry has conflicting goals.

Is any producer stupid enough to believe we can raise all the cattle we want if no one ever eats them?

Do the packers kill as many as they can when boxed beef values return a negative amount?

Do retailers want to give beef away?

Each segment of the beef industry wants (needs) to make money. Every dollar returning to the producer has to be first spent by the consumer. The retailer and packer take their margins. Competiton makes those margins change, inflation and increased costs make those margins smaller unless the consumer pays more.

It has been proven the producer of a calf has the highest per head margin in the industry. Granted it needs to be that way as we are also in argueably the most vulnerable position. However those fighting change in the industry don't want to be held accountable that management and genetics from the producer affect the final product. Garbage in garbage out.

You would hope producers would be smart enough to know they have the biggest interest in providing a good product to consumers, but BS Bullard and friends don't understand where beef comes from.
 

rkaiser

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Jason
Explain the part where each segment of the industry has conflicting goals.

One segment wants the most money it can get for it's product and the other wants to pay the least.

How could it be more simple Jason?
 

Jason

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Does that mean that each segment of the industry wants to drive the other parts into bankruptcy?
 

Andy

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One segment wants the most money it can get for it's product and the other wants to pay the least.

How could it be more simple Jason?

Feeders and packers don't necessarily want to pay the least for a product, they want the best return. The reason feeders pay more for top quality cattle and Packers give premiums for cattle that grade better is that they can get a better return off of those cattle.
 

Bill

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Andy said:
One segment wants the most money it can get for it's product and the other wants to pay the least.

How could it be more simple Jason?

Feeders and packers don't necessarily want to pay the least for a product, they want the best return. The reason feeders pay more for top quality cattle and Packers give premiums for cattle that grade better is that they can get a better return off of those cattle.
Exactly! Good response Andy.
 

cowzilla

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Andy said:
One segment wants the most money it can get for it's product and the other wants to pay the least.

How could it be more simple Jason?

Feeders and packers don't necessarily want to pay the least for a product, they want the best return. The reason feeders pay more for top quality cattle and Packers give premiums for cattle that grade better is that they can get a better return off of those cattle.
I don't mind Packers making money and feedlots making money as long as I make money too :!: Lets face it most cow calf guys don't want to be in the packing business any more than the packers want to calve out a bunch of lively cows. :) Quaility starts at the bottom ( cow ) and works its way up ( steak house ) everybody can make money then :wink:
 

mrj

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OK, Guys, where does this scenario I've heard some cattlemen state has worked for them fit into the ranch gate to consumer plate?

Buy mediocre to low quality calves, put as little as possible into them, sell them as soon as possible to the summer grass operator, and make the most money from them; as contrasted with the guy who carefully buys (or raises) the best, takes the best care of them, and makes sure the stocker or feeder gets a superior product? Surely you all know people who operate under the first scenario. And what about the various levels from low cost to high cost producer and the results of their programs in producing the high quality beef that ALL consumers want.

BTW, my "city" daughter says the biggest complaint she hears from people at work and at church (the biggest ELCA Lutheran church in Nebraska) and among people in general in their busy life is that people are not satisfied with the consistency, even more than the quality of beef purchased at the same places. And my take is that the stores run the gamut from military BX to Walmart, to the best store in Omaha area.

MRJ
 
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MRJ said:
BTW, my "city" daughter says the biggest complaint she hears from people at work and at church (the biggest ELCA Lutheran church in Nebraska) and among people in general in their busy life is that people are not satisfied with the consistency, even more than the quality of beef purchased at the same places. And my take is that the stores run the gamut from military BX to Walmart, to the best store in Omaha area.

MRJ

Providing as much inormation about the beef as possible for the buying consumer could be a good place to start-- allowing them choices, so they can make decisions on consistency...

Information like Country of Origin Labeling............
 

Econ101

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Jason said:
Explain the part where each segment of the industry has conflicting goals.

Is any producer stupid enough to believe we can raise all the cattle we want if no one ever eats them?

Do the packers kill as many as they can when boxed beef values return a negative amount?

Do retailers want to give beef away?

Each segment of the beef industry wants (needs) to make money. Every dollar returning to the producer has to be first spent by the consumer. The retailer and packer take their margins. Competiton makes those margins change, inflation and increased costs make those margins smaller unless the consumer pays more.

It has been proven the producer of a calf has the highest per head margin in the industry. Granted it needs to be that way as we are also in argueably the most vulnerable position. However those fighting change in the industry don't want to be held accountable that management and genetics from the producer affect the final product. Garbage in garbage out.

You would hope producers would be smart enough to know they have the biggest interest in providing a good product to consumers, but BS Bullard and friends don't understand where beef comes from.

Jason, if you don't know by now, you probably never will.
 

Jason

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Gee Conman can't you understand when a guy knows the answers and asks rhetorical questions?

Too bad you can't refute the truth with your conspiracies.

Facts must drive you insane.
 

Econ101

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Jason said:
Gee Conman can't you understand when a guy knows the answers and asks rhetorical questions?

Too bad you can't refute the truth with your conspiracies.

Facts must drive you insane.

They would if you had any. You recently stated that the packing industry was not an oligopsony or oligopoly. It is both. I wish you were either a little more humble in your ignorance or a little more knowledgable in your posts. Either way, you have no qualifications for the conclusive names and words you use.
 

mrj

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Oldtimer said:
MRJ said:
BTW, my "city" daughter says the biggest complaint she hears from people at work and at church (the biggest ELCA Lutheran church in Nebraska) and among people in general in their busy life is that people are not satisfied with the consistency, even more than the quality of beef purchased at the same places. And my take is that the stores run the gamut from military BX to Walmart, to the best store in Omaha area.

MRJ

Providing as much inormation about the beef as possible for the buying consumer could be a good place to start-- allowing them choices, so they can make decisions on consistency...

Information like Country of Origin Labeling............

So, OT, what do you think consumers are going to do about the low quality beef they just may get hold of with that "USA BEEF" label on it? Or do you honestly believe there is no USA produced beef that will be inconsistent or of low quality? You and your friends are leading consumers to believe that label will solve all problems with beef and give them a safer product, when that just isn't true. I don't know about you, but I think consumers will not be very friendly toward a food industry that lies to them about something this important.

I prefer what part of the the Beef Checkoff is being used for: to conduct consumer education workshops in retail stores to show consumers how to choose the type of beef products they want, and how best to prepare them. Unfortunately, there isn't enough money to do all that is needed along those lines at this point in time.

MRJ
 
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Anonymous

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MRJ- M-COOL will not be the total answer- but it is one more rung in the ladder of giving more info to the consumer to make educated decisions with...But that would take one rung out of NCBA's theory of keeping consumers in the blind and "we'll tell them what they should want to eat"...

I had a chance to eat some of that prepackaged roast that NCBA and the checkoff has been so hot on and are pushing so hard...I'm not sure this isn't doing more harm to the cattle and beef industries than good-- I never ate a drier hunk of sawdusty product in my life- if it had not been for the salt, pepper, and spices it would have had no taste at all.....It was leaner and drier than my boot soles...
 

mwj

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Oldtimer if the consumer will buy more when they have all the info, why aren't all the branded beef programs dominating the market?
 

Econ101

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mwj said:
Oldtimer if the consumer will buy more when they have all the info, why aren't all the branded beef programs dominating the market?

Did you hear rkaiser's explanation on that? Cargill (and Tyson) picked the pockets of Canadians and got a ton of taxpayer money in their salmon run. We have already seen where some of the producers got such a small part of the bailout money that it didn't make much of a difference. Those kind of tactics, and ones you will never see, help make them the low cost producers.

If "good" companies do not play the political games to get taxpayer subsidies and advantages, do you think they can compete on price?

It is clear that these tactics do give advantages. Should we allow them?
 
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Anonymous

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mwj said:
Oldtimer if the consumer will buy more when they have all the info, why aren't all the branded beef programs dominating the market?

I think some like CAB are- after one local restaurant (who has an owner with ranch ties) switched to CAB and began advertising it, all the rest had to also just to keep up....This owner has told me that if a USA Beef CAB product was readily available and identifiable that he would go with it- and advertise it as such-- but its not available....

Branded beef is not available in the stores in my area- how they would do, I do not know-- But I am certain that if beef was marked Product of USA, it would sell before the imported...
 

Jason

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Econ101 said:
Jason said:
Gee Conman can't you understand when a guy knows the answers and asks rhetorical questions?

Too bad you can't refute the truth with your conspiracies.

Facts must drive you insane.

They would if you had any. You recently stated that the packing industry was not an oligopsony or oligopoly. It is both. I wish you were either a little more humble in your ignorance or a little more knowledgable in your posts. Either way, you have no qualifications for the conclusive names and words you use.

More lies from conman.

I said the packers were not an oligopoly, nor did he have an ogilopoly in water (his phony New Orleans scenario). He said he never said the packers were an oligopoly, but an oligopsony. Now he is claiming he said they are both.

Prove they are, if you can.

But facts don't agree with conspiracy, or is it he can't provide the details here, or is it his medications ran out? Whatever no proof will be forthcoming.
 

mrj

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Oldtimer said:
mwj said:
Oldtimer if the consumer will buy more when they have all the info, why aren't all the branded beef programs dominating the market?

I think some like CAB are- after one local restaurant (who has an owner with ranch ties) switched to CAB and began advertising it, all the rest had to also just to keep up....This owner has told me that if a USA Beef CAB product was readily available and identifiable that he would go with it- and advertise it as such-- but its not available....

Branded beef is not available in the stores in my area- how they would do, I do not know-- But I am certain that if beef was marked Product of USA, it would sell before the imported...

OT, do you have Safeway stores in your area? I believe their top "house" brand of beef is from a group of ranchers, and there are others out there. Didn't BEEF magazine have a story on them listing many sometime in the past year or so? The fact that we all don't know of them doesn't mean there are not quite a few US ranchers individually and in groups large and small doing the branded beef thing.

MRJ
 

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