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THE 7 CANADIAN CALVES

WHO DO YOU BELIEVE

  • THE CATTLE MAN

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • THE USDA

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Kato

Well-known member
If you knew the USDA inspector in charge of those cattle crossing the border you wouldn't even ask this question. :!:
 

Kato

Well-known member
Very likely at the crossing between Boissevain Manitoba and Dunseith North Dakota. The only other possiblity is at Pembina North Dakota, but the majority of Manitoba calves go through Boissevain.

Western Manitoba has a number of bigger feedlots, and one of the a number of high volume cattle buyers, so the odds are strong on Boissevain.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Kato said:
Very likely at the crossing between Boissevain Manitoba and Dunseith North Dakota. The only other possiblity is at Pembina North Dakota, but the majority of Manitoba calves go through Boissevain.

Western Manitoba has a number of bigger feedlots, and one of the a number of high volume cattle buyers, so the odds are strong on Boissevain.

Speculation...Another assumption, just like many of our posts have been on this subject...Over two months since the incident- and a couple weeks since the USDA said they have it solved and they still have released very little info...I get e-mails of all USDA press releases (several a day) and not one has mentioned the incident....And I've heard or seen nothing out of Canada...I would think that as important as this could end up being to Canada someone would be wanting to see the USDA investigation reports and have something to say about it...

This is not like its an issue that has military security privilege nor a criminal investigation privilege since they indicated no crime was committed...Do we not still live in a Democracy where the citizenery has a right to know what their polical appointees and bureaucrats are doing? Where is the openness and transparency that USDA promised :???: :( :( :mad: .....Plumb stinks!!!!!!!!
 

Bill

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Kato said:
Very likely at the crossing between Boissevain Manitoba and Dunseith North Dakota. The only other possiblity is at Pembina North Dakota, but the majority of Manitoba calves go through Boissevain.

Western Manitoba has a number of bigger feedlots, and one of the a number of high volume cattle buyers, so the odds are strong on Boissevain.

Speculation...Another assumption, just like many of our posts have been on this subject...Over two months since the incident- and a couple weeks since the USDA said they have it solved and they still have released very little info...I get e-mails of all USDA press releases (several a day) and not one has mentioned the incident....And I've heard or seen nothing out of Canada...I would think that as important as this could end up being to Canada someone would be wanting to see the USDA investigation reports and have something to say about it...

This is not like its an issue that has military security privilege nor a criminal investigation privilege since they indicated no crime was committed...Do we not still live in a Democracy where the citizenery has a right to know what their polical appointees and bureaucrats are doing? Where is the openness and transparency that USDA promised :???: :( :( :mad: .....Plumb stinks!!!!!!!!

Your right it stinks Oldtimer and your the one who keeps spreading it around with your constant whining.

Waaaaaaa USDA

Waaaaaaa Canada

Waaaaaaa Canada

Waaaaaaa USDA


You are the one who plastered this all over the internet and now can wear the egg on your face quite proudly. Be sure to share some of it with your other members of the R-Choir.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Kato said:
Very likely at the crossing between Boissevain Manitoba and Dunseith North Dakota. The only other possiblity is at Pembina North Dakota, but the majority of Manitoba calves go through Boissevain.

Western Manitoba has a number of bigger feedlots, and one of the a number of high volume cattle buyers, so the odds are strong on Boissevain.

Speculation...Another assumption, just like many of our posts have been on this subject...Over two months since the incident- and a couple weeks since the USDA said they have it solved and they still have released very little info...I get e-mails of all USDA press releases (several a day) and not one has mentioned the incident....And I've heard or seen nothing out of Canada...I would think that as important as this could end up being to Canada someone would be wanting to see the USDA investigation reports and have something to say about it...

This is not like its an issue that has military security privilege nor a criminal investigation privilege since they indicated no crime was committed...Do we not still live in a Democracy where the citizenery has a right to know what their polical appointees and bureaucrats are doing? Where is the openness and transparency that USDA promised :???: :( :( :mad: .....Plumb stinks!!!!!!!!

Your right it stinks Oldtimer and your the one who keeps spreading it around with your constant whining.

Waaaaaaa USDA

Waaaaaaa Canada

Waaaaaaa Canada

Waaaaaaa USDA


You are the one who plastered this all over the internet and now can wear the egg on your face quite proudly. Be sure to share some of it with your other members of the R-Choir.

Bill- I'll admit that I've done as much speculating and assuming as everyone else in an attempt to get info about this incident....But after over one month and not even a report of the incident from USDA, you have to bring attention to the issue and public/political pressure on them...That is one of the problems that comes about when a government agency blankets itself in secrecy....Rumors, speculation, and loss of credibility....This has been one of the biggest faults of this administration and what has brought so much of the media to question their credibility....

Now we have over two months and still little for details on what happened...

I spent 30 years working with high interest, high emotion incidents and found that being as open and honest with the citizenry and media is important- and to get press releases and info out ASAP to keep the rumors from starting...USDA completely dropped that ball- and I don't think its because they're that stupid or lack enough public relations people-- which raises the stink level on why they don't want this to be looked at by the public....
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
Kato said:
Very likely at the crossing between Boissevain Manitoba and Dunseith North Dakota. The only other possiblity is at Pembina North Dakota, but the majority of Manitoba calves go through Boissevain.

Western Manitoba has a number of bigger feedlots, and one of the a number of high volume cattle buyers, so the odds are strong on Boissevain.


I agree with you Kato. There are two cattle buyers/Feedlots that I have heard that is where the cattle could have came from and they follow the rules because they know if they dont they wont be shipping cattle across the border. That USDA vet at the Boissevain crossing is very strict.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Bill said:
Oldtimer said:
Speculation...Another assumption, just like many of our posts have been on this subject...Over two months since the incident- and a couple weeks since the USDA said they have it solved and they still have released very little info...I get e-mails of all USDA press releases (several a day) and not one has mentioned the incident....And I've heard or seen nothing out of Canada...I would think that as important as this could end up being to Canada someone would be wanting to see the USDA investigation reports and have something to say about it...

This is not like its an issue that has military security privilege nor a criminal investigation privilege since they indicated no crime was committed...Do we not still live in a Democracy where the citizenery has a right to know what their polical appointees and bureaucrats are doing? Where is the openness and transparency that USDA promised :???: :( :( :mad: .....Plumb stinks!!!!!!!!

Your right it stinks Oldtimer and your the one who keeps spreading it around with your constant whining.

Waaaaaaa USDA

Waaaaaaa Canada

Waaaaaaa Canada

Waaaaaaa USDA


You are the one who plastered this all over the internet and now can wear the egg on your face quite proudly. Be sure to share some of it with your other members of the R-Choir.

Bill- I'll admit that I've done as much speculating and assuming as everyone else in an attempt to get info about this incident....But after over one month and not even a report of the incident from USDA, you have to bring attention to the issue and public/political pressure on them...That is one of the problems that comes about when a government agency blankets itself in secrecy....Rumors, speculation, and loss of credibility....This has been one of the biggest faults of this administration and what has brought so much of the media to question their credibility....

Now we have over two months and still little for details on what happened...

I spent 30 years working with high interest, high emotion incidents and found that being as open and honest with the citizenry and media is important- and to get press releases and info out ASAP to keep the rumors from starting...USDA completely dropped that ball- and I don't think its because they're that stupid or lack enough public relations people-- which raises the stink level on why they don't want this to be looked at by the public....

Just how much high interest stuff was going on the Valley County Montana, that needed press releases issued :shock: One of the most interesting things that happen in Sheridan country is the when the female law enforcement officer had to call for backup as she mistakening locked herself into the backseat of her own car while having a fling and needed someone to come let her and her partner out. It didn't take any press release for that news to hit the streets running :wink:

BTW did you do as much speculating, guess work and spreading of misleading crap in those thirty years with your press releases as you do now? Or did you do your job and investigated to find out the truth before making statements the evidence could back up unlike what you do now? :wink:

If you honestly believe open and honest with the citizenry is so important why didn't you issue a retired Deputy Dog press release to the Local paper about your local butcher taking the Product of Canada labels off after you went dumpster diving? :roll: Or would that have cut into his ability to compete with the BIG BOYs to much? :wink:

You Oldtimer spouting about truth and honesty is a JOKE with all the crap you spread. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Did you have something to say besides attack me :???:

Just asking questions Oldtimer. :wink:
Let me re-ask

1.Just how much high interest stuff was going on the Valley County Montana, that needed press releases issued?

2.did you do as much speculating, guess work and spreading of misleading crap in those thirty years with your press releases as you do now?

3.Or did you do your job and investigated to find out the truth before making statements the evidence could back up unlike what you do now?

4. If you honestly believe open and honest with the citizenry is so important why didn't you issue a retired Deputy Dog press release to the Local paper about your local butcher taking the Product of Canada labels off after you went dumpster diving?

5. Or would that have cut into his ability to compete with the BIG BOYs to much?

How are we to know what kind of LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER you were without asking a few questions? :wink:

By your answer I doubt the media got to ask any question at your Press conferences I bet you just issued written press release so they couldn't ask questions? :wink:

But accusing me of attacking you after your post trying to get me to back your claims the Canadian Authorities refused to help the USDA in their investigation what a laugh :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Did you have something to say besides attack me :???:

Just asking questions Oldtimer. :wink:
Let me re-ask

1.Just how much high interest stuff was going on the Valley County Montana, that needed press releases issued?

Tam I talked weekly with Billings Gazette, Great Falls Tribune, Glasgow Courier, UPI, and many of the other media outlets...

High interest, high emotion-- many homicides, which included several triple murders (remember we are on and border a Reservation)- arson deaths, house explosions with multiple deaths, oil rig explosions with multiple deaths, oilrig gas asphixations, we had 5 exposure deaths in one year, multi county drug busts, the largest embezzlement in the history of the state (Marc Racicot prosecuted), the largest seizure and sale of cattle in state history (700+ head) , suicides, car accidents, boat or drowning accidents (we have the largest earth filled dam and reservoir in the nation), Amtrak wrecks, etc. I could go on for some time....These have high interest in a state like Montana and any time you are involved with suspicious or questionable deaths- high emotion...

2.did you do as much speculating, guess work and spreading of misleading crap in those thirty years with your press releases as you do now?


3.Or did you do your job and investigated to find out the truth before making statements the evidence could back up unlike what you do now?

No speculation-- only the facts that could be released at the time...Sometimes the first day that would only be to verify or release that the incident occurred and that would be followed up with more info as soon as it was known....And that was never a month or two later without any official press release....

4. If you honestly believe open and honest with the citizenry is so important why didn't you issue a retired Deputy Dog press release to the Local paper about your local butcher taking the Product of Canada labels off after you went dumpster diving?

There were press releases and info issued regarding the fact that Packers/retailers were defrauding consumers by use of the USDA stamp...Much of that was done by the Montana Senator who co-sponsored the MT M-COOL law...Surprised a lot of local folks that thought they were getting local feedlot beef, since some of the retailers did on farm slaughtering- -But were not licensed to sell that product retail under Montana law... Really surprised them to find out that our government could have been pawning off Canadian beef to them unknowingly while allowing the retailers to label it as US......The local media was caught unknowing about it either and took quite an interest in following up with follow up stories on it......
The local commissioners also signed a petition and letter of support at that time for the M-COOL-- which went all the way to the national level with MACO (Montana Association of County Officials) and NACO (National) coming out in support of M-COOL- which they still do....


5. Or would that have cut into his ability to compete with the BIG BOYs to much?

We singled out no individuals, since they were all doing it and violating no law-- but did make sure the word got out on that this was a national fraud and was occurring right here too.....

How are we to know what kind of LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER you were without asking a few questions? :wink:

By your answer I doubt the media got to ask any question at your Press conferences I bet you just issued written press release so they couldn't ask questions? :wink:

Many times I issued only written releases- so that they would not print something you did not say.....For many years I issued verbal thru a local news reporter that was very trustworthy- and she would write up the release for the rest of the press agencies--- until she retired.....
I also started a newspaper column about 5 years before I retired- where we listed all the calls recieved for assistance for the week along with the action taken (investigation, arrest, etc.--if an arrest the name of the person arrested)...Many weeks this takes up or covers almost a whole page in the paper...They are still doing this and it is very popular with folks in the county- and I've had some that say its the first thing they read when they get the weekly paper and they wouldn't buy the paper if it ended....Its all about trying to be an open and transparent government agency....


But accusing me of attacking you after your post trying to get me to back your claims the Canadian Authorities refused to help the USDA in their investigation what a laugh

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You haven't come up with an answer for my Senator about how we can guarantee these quarantined cattle can be tracked if we find the need to..... :???:
 

Tam

Well-known member
If what you say is true about your past investigation abilities then why are you now willing to speculate on just about every topic and post crap that can be taken down with the facts of a simple google search? Your speculation about these 7 cattle is bordering on rediculos. I went back though the threads about these cattle and counted over 25 comments from you that were nothing more than speculation, just Bar Stool talk. And not one piece of information that can back any of them. Is that what you call good Valley country detective work. Speculate until the cows come home but don't bother looking for any facts to back them just wait until others step in. :roll:
How could a retired lawman send misleading attention grabbing headlined pieces of crap to his Congressmen and Senators like you have admitted to have done?
Have you been retired so long that the facts no long matter, only the conviction of the innocent if it means the furthering of R-CALFs agenda?

Have you been blinded by R-CALF so bad that you can't see your 30 years of law enforcement credibility slipping away? :roll:


You and some of your countrymen claim the USDA inspected label is a fraudulent label. So tell us what is the BSE Tested label that you support? Why is one ( the USDA label) fraudulent because someone might think it's something it's not but the other (Creekstone's BSE tested label) is not when consumers that see it will think it means BSE FREE but it doesn't?

Want some examples of fraudulent comments Oldtimer?

Your claims that Canadian producers aren't proud enough to label our beef. That fraud was put to rest when you told us about your local butcher lawfully taking the PRODUCT OF CANADA LABEL OFF THE CANADIAN BEEF HE WAS SELLING IN YOUR HOME TOWN. If we are not proud enough to label our beef who did label it before your local butcher got his hands on it?


want some more

Your claim about the seven fats : potentially diseased cattle illegally going into the US system- endangering herd health, consumer health, US international risk status, and some US export markets....
and your claim: the USDA is hiding something!!!!!


Proper paperwork: However, Sam Holland, state veterinarian for South Dakota, said the paperwork indicates that tags of the cattle in question were checked at the Canadian border. The proper papers were found at the port of entry, he said Wednesday.

'The paperwork trail that's required for slaughter cattle is pretty irrefutable,' Holland added.

Holland, who has been critical of some USDA dealings, said the investigation into the Vandyke situation was thorough and straightforward. While more work could be done on the case, Holland said that it now appears that the proper information has been released.

Now how were these cattle illegal Oldtimer? the proper paperwork was found at the port where they crossed and they were at the right packing plant.
And how did they threaten any one's health? they were HEALTHY fat cattle. No different than the US cattle that Vandyke delivered to the plant.
How did they risk US herd health? THEY WERE HEALTHY
How did they risk your risk status? They were Canadian cattle ID'ed back to Canada with all the proper paperwork.
Name one country that threatened to close your exports over these cattle?
How was the USDA hiding something? a Vet that has criticized the USDA 's handling of other issues said "the proper information has been released."

See how fraudulent your comments were OLDTIMER? They were meant to mislead the readers into believing something that wasn't TRUE. This coming from a retired law enforcement officer. :roll:

Tell your Senators If it's a true HEALTH risk as in a positive test result you will receive all the help you need but just make sure it is a real health issue OK Oldtimer :wink:
 

don

Well-known member
from farms.com:

Canada Not to Blame for Cattle Mix-Up - 2/2/2007



NASHVILLE (DTN) -- Canada did not violate any trade restrictions in a mix-up
of cattle last November that led a livestock group to call for an investigation,
a top veterinarian for USDA said Thursday.
An investigation was launched by USDA after the South Dakota Stockgrowers
Association questioned why a packer refused to pay a producer for cattle with
a Canadian tag, claiming the producer was not aware he had bought Canadian
cattle at a sale barn.
Canadian feeder cattle are not allowed for import or sale at a stockyards.
Cattle are only allowed to go to a feedlot then directly to a meatpacking
plant.
The controversy flared when officials from Swift & Co. in Grand Island,
Neb., told a South Dakota cattle producer some of his cattle had to be condemned
and could not be sold because he had improperly co-mingled undocumented Canadian
cattle in his shipment to the plant. The stockgrowers group, which opposes
Canadian imports, denounced the situation.
John Clifford, chief veterinarian with the USDA Animal and Plant Health
Inspection Service, told members of the National Cattlemen's Beef Association
working group for Canada-U.S. trade that Swift had actually imported the cattle
and then they were improperly co-mingled with U.S. cattle in the pens at the
packing plant. Clifford said USDA officials had the health certificates from
Canada and the ear tags showing the animals were properly imported.
The slaughter cattle were delivered Nov. 28 to the packing plant and processed
Nov. 29. That same day was when the South Dakota cattle feeder also had his
cattle delivered to Swift. Earlier this week, Swift acknowledged the mistake
and paid the producer for his cattle.
USDA "was satisfied those tags were from cattle legally exported from Canada
to the packing plant," said John Masswohl of the Canadian Cattlemens' Association.

The cattle from Canada were able to be tracked because of the animal identification
system in that country, Masswohl said.
Such incidences, as minor as they may seem, are a major complication for
Canadian cattlemen trying to expand trade of live cattle to breeding cattle
and older cull animals born after March 1, 1999. Masswohl and other officials
with the Canadian Cattlemens' Association are at the NCBA convention to alleviate
fears over the issue.
"We're talking about how people trade and what that means for the producers,"
Masswohl said. Older Canadian cattle have been banned from the U.S. since
the first case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in that country in May
2003.
Cattle producers in northern states are worried about price impacts on
the cow market and what happens if there is another positive case of BSE from
a Canadian animal on U.S. soil.
"Nobody can guarantee that's not going to happen," Masswohl said. "We have
assumed all along there are going to be more cases."
Still, the risk of contaminated beef in the food supply is minimal and
the safeguards are strong, Masswohl said.

i guess now we just have to wait for ocm to tell us which direction the cattle actually came from. he's certainly keeping us in suspense. sounds so spoooooky!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
don said:
from farms.com:

Canada Not to Blame for Cattle Mix-Up - 2/2/2007



NASHVILLE (DTN) -- Canada did not violate any trade restrictions in a mix-up
of cattle last November that led a livestock group to call for an investigation,
a top veterinarian for USDA said Thursday.
An investigation was launched by USDA after the South Dakota Stockgrowers
Association questioned why a packer refused to pay a producer for cattle with
a Canadian tag, claiming the producer was not aware he had bought Canadian
cattle at a sale barn.
Canadian feeder cattle are not allowed for import or sale at a stockyards.
Cattle are only allowed to go to a feedlot then directly to a meatpacking
plant.
The controversy flared when officials from Swift & Co. in Grand Island,
Neb., told a South Dakota cattle producer some of his cattle had to be condemned
and could not be sold because he had improperly co-mingled undocumented Canadian
cattle in his shipment to the plant. The stockgrowers group, which opposes
Canadian imports, denounced the situation.
John Clifford, chief veterinarian with the USDA Animal and Plant Health
Inspection Service, told members of the National Cattlemen's Beef Association
working group for Canada-U.S. trade that Swift had actually imported the cattle
and then they were improperly co-mingled with U.S. cattle in the pens at the
packing plant. Clifford said USDA officials had the health certificates from
Canada and the ear tags showing the animals were properly imported.
The slaughter cattle were delivered Nov. 28 to the packing plant and processed
Nov. 29. That same day was when the South Dakota cattle feeder also had his
cattle delivered to Swift. Earlier this week, Swift acknowledged the mistake
and paid the producer for his cattle.
USDA "was satisfied those tags were from cattle legally exported from Canada
to the packing plant," said John Masswohl of the Canadian Cattlemens' Association.

The cattle from Canada were able to be tracked because of the animal identification
system in that country, Masswohl said.
Such incidences, as minor as they may seem, are a major complication for
Canadian cattlemen trying to expand trade of live cattle to breeding cattle
and older cull animals born after March 1, 1999. Masswohl and other officials
with the Canadian Cattlemens' Association are at the NCBA convention to alleviate
fears over the issue.
"We're talking about how people trade and what that means for the producers,"
Masswohl said. Older Canadian cattle have been banned from the U.S. since
the first case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in that country in May
2003.
Cattle producers in northern states are worried about price impacts on
the cow market and what happens if there is another positive case of BSE from
a Canadian animal on U.S. soil.
"Nobody can guarantee that's not going to happen," Masswohl said. "We have
assumed all along there are going to be more cases."
Still, the risk of contaminated beef in the food supply is minimal and
the safeguards are strong, Masswohl said.

i guess now we just have to wait for ocm to tell us which direction the cattle actually came from. he's certainly keeping us in suspense. sounds so spoooooky!

If everything was so simple, why did it take the USDA two months to figure that out, and why were they so tight lipped? Why couldn't Swift figure it out in a matter of hours? None of this raises a red flag for you?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Tam, "How did they risk US herd health? THEY WERE HEALTHY "

Your last BSE positive would of been considered healthy had it been checked just a month or so before it died, too.
 

don

Well-known member
sandhusker: If everything was so simple, why did it take the USDA two months to figure that out, and why were they so tight lipped? Why couldn't Swift figure it out in a matter of hours? None of this raises a red flag for you?

if something's up sandhusker just let us know what really happened. pretty easy to sit on the side and call everybody liars but so far you r-calfers have brought nothing. all you say is you don't believe usda. maybe you're right but bring us the real story. you're sounding like yappy little puppies - all bark no bite.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
don said:
sandhusker: If everything was so simple, why did it take the USDA two months to figure that out, and why were they so tight lipped? Why couldn't Swift figure it out in a matter of hours? None of this raises a red flag for you?

if something's up sandhusker just let us know what really happened. pretty easy to sit on the side and call everybody liars but so far you r-calfers have brought nothing. all you say is you don't believe usda. maybe you're right but bring us the real story. you're sounding like yappy little puppies - all bark no bite.

I don't know what really happened. I don't think you do, either. I'm just saying there are a lot of parts of the story we're getting that don't make sense.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
Didnt the fella that didnt get paid right away say that he say those cattle in his feedlot before they went to slaughter? If thatst the case then we know who stinks like skunk now....... :lol:
 
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