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The Absurdity Of The Debt Limit

Mike

Well-known member
Republicans Have Yet to Point Out the Absurdity of Avoiding Default by Raising the Debt Limit



In the debt limit/government shutdown debacle, the Republicans have yet to make the somewhat obvious argument that when trying to avoid a default, it is contra-intuitive to make the debt even bigger. It is like paying the minimum payment on one credit card off with another credit card with a higher credit limit. Since when does going deeper into debt avoid a default? To me that logic is compelling. It may be that our mass population is incapable of understanding such a basic concept, or it may be just a built in assumption that the feds have to borrow more money because they have no hope of living within their cash flow.
 

Tom in TN

Well-known member
Mike,

I have no use whatsoever for President Obama or his cadre of sycophants. The outrageous deficits that we've seen during the past 3 1/2 years are at his behest.

However, isn't it a fact that all of his spending (and the new spending that is going to be incurred when the debt ceiling is raised) is solely the responsibility of the House of Representatives? Doesn't all spending originate in the House? Isn't the President simply spending the money that has been allocated by the House to pay for the plethora of programs that they, themselves, have created?

I can't stand the president, but I really can't stand the Democrats or Republicans in the House.

What do you think?

Tom in TN
 

Mike

Well-known member
The House only turned majority Republican in 2010. Since that day they have fighting over a budget. The House forced the Sequester just last year in order to bring spending down. There have been other disagreements as per the debt limits since 2010.

I personally think they have done an admirable job in trying to control spending.

Had the House remained Democrat, there's no telling how much more the U.S. debt would be........................

Obama never sent a budget to Congress his first two years and when he did, it got zero votes in the House & Senate. It was that embarrassing.

The 2011 United States federal budget is the United States federal budget to fund government operations for the fiscal year 2011, which is October 2010 – September 2011. The budget is the subject of a spending request by President Barack Obama.[3][4] The actual appropriations for Fiscal Year 2011 had to be authorized by the full Congress before it could take effect, according to the United States budget process.

No budget was passed by the September 30 deadline, and the government was funded by a series of seven continuing resolutions continuing funding at or near 2010 levels. The budget negotiations culminated in early April 2011, with a tense legislative standoff leading to speculation that the nation would face its first government shutdown since 1995. However, a deal containing $38.5 billion in cuts from 2010 funding levels was reached with just hours remaining before the deadline. The 2011 budget was enacted on April 15, 2011, as Public Law 112-10
 

Steve

Well-known member
is solely the responsibility of the House of Representatives? Doesn't all spending originate in the House? Isn't the President simply spending the money that has been allocated by the House to pay for the plethora of programs that they, themselves, have created?

as you saw in this fight,.. the effort to defund programs is not easy...

as well as the effort to uncouple the farm bill from the food-stamps welfare bill ..

the end result is a stalemate and an unfunded farm bill.. when all the effort was to rein in both..

Many of the worthless programs were put in as riders on more important favored bills,.. it is hard for them to vote against a military appropriation bill so some politicians gets a package of pork and straps it to the bill..

this is often one of those darned if we do darned if we don't...

I am not a fan of my local rino congressman.. but realize he would be replaced by a moderate democrat.. or worse a liberal democrat...
so I vote against him in every primary and hold my nose in most general elections.

but when you consider that when Obamacare came in by one or two votes.. (Collins / Snow).. had just one of them voted no we wouldn't be having this debate on this issue..
it shows how some of these programs are rammed through by a slim margin but for some reason never get enough votes to be removed from the federal ledger..

at least for now my rino is voting with his party.. but that is usually short term..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
but when you consider that when Obamacare came in by one or two votes.. (Collins / Snow).. had just one of them voted no we wouldn't be having this debate on this issue..

obamacare should have originated in the House to be constitutional.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
There are also many regulatory agencies that expand/amend laws, so as to cost the taxpayer money. (DHs, HHS, EPA, etc) The House should be able to budget/amend spending on such regulations annually.

There's a difference between regulatory bills and appropriation bills
 

Tom in TN

Well-known member
Just to be clear about this, I am an ultra-conservative Republican. I understand both the make-up of Congress and the difficulty of passing legislation that restricts spending.

My only point was that the onus for the deficit sits clearly on the House of Representatives, not on the Executive Branch. Democrat controlled or Republican controlled - the source of the problem is the House.

As I said, I have no use for President Obama (and I only had slightly more use for President Bush), but neither of them instigated the deficits. The House is and has been the real source of the problem.

Tom in TN
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Tom in TN said:
Just to be clear about this, I am an ultra-conservative Republican. I understand both the make-up of Congress and the difficulty of passing legislation that restricts spending.

My only point was that the onus for the deficit sits clearly on the House of Representatives, not on the Executive Branch. Democrat controlled or Republican controlled - the source of the problem is the House.

As I said, I have no use for President Obama (and I only had slightly more use for President Bush), but neither of them instigated the deficits. The House is and has been the real source of the problem.

Tom in TN

Bush should have vetoed more spending bills.
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Tom in TN said:
Just to be clear about this, I am an ultra-conservative Republican. I understand both the make-up of Congress and the difficulty of passing legislation that restricts spending.

My only point was that the onus for the deficit sits clearly on the House of Representatives, not on the Executive Branch. Democrat controlled or Republican controlled - the source of the problem is the House.

As I said, I have no use for President Obama (and I only had slightly more use for President Bush), but neither of them instigated the deficits. The House is and has been the real source of the problem.

Tom in TN

Agree
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
iwannabeacowboy said:
Tom in TN said:
Just to be clear about this, I am an ultra-conservative Republican. I understand both the make-up of Congress and the difficulty of passing legislation that restricts spending.

My only point was that the onus for the deficit sits clearly on the House of Representatives, not on the Executive Branch. Democrat controlled or Republican controlled - the source of the problem is the House.

As I said, I have no use for President Obama (and I only had slightly more use for President Bush), but neither of them instigated the deficits. The House is and has been the real source of the problem.

Tom in TN

Agree

and I also agree, but unfortunately that Constitutional power has been subverted by the Senate, the President and regulatory agencies.

obamacare is a perfect example.
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
Tom in TN said:
Just to be clear about this, I am an ultra-conservative Republican. I understand both the make-up of Congress and the difficulty of passing legislation that restricts spending.

My only point was that the onus for the deficit sits clearly on the House of Representatives, not on the Executive Branch. Democrat controlled or Republican controlled - the source of the problem is the House.

As I said, I have no use for President Obama (and I only had slightly more use for President Bush), but neither of them instigated the deficits. The House is and has been the real source of the problem.

Tom in TN

Agree

and I also agree, but unfortunately that Constitutional power has been subverted by the Senate, the President and regulatory agencies.

obamacare is a perfect example.

True, but it ultimately rests with the people, and they are the ones that have given away the power to be subverted.

You can't fix stupid and we have several chronic cases of that.
 
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