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The Agribusiness Freedom Foundation

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the chief

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Someone below mentioned an "independent" analysis of this border problem by a group known as the Agribusiness Freedom foundation.
Here is their belief statement:

Free market approaches, including free trade, free business structure options, free alliances, free competition, free marketing options and free scientific innovation best serve the food production chain, the country and the consumer. YOU ALSO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO GO BROKE! The limited economic and governmental restrictions on business set in place by our Founding Fathers has served America well. AFTER ALL, WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT THAT MONEY CAN BUY! We wish to see that traditional constitutional framework continued, unfettered by short-term "fixes" or capitulations to narrow interests. LIKE THE NARROW INTEREST OF SOME CATTLEMEN TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING!

We oppose efforts to put limits on businesses to ally or cooperate with each other. WE LOVE LACK OF COMPETITION! We oppose limits on the abilities of agricultural operators or other food chain participants to utilize the business structures they choose. We oppose limits on individuals or businesses to operate in multiple segments of the food chain. LET PACKERS OWN THEIR OWN LIVESTOCK AND FORCE INDEPENDENT PRODUCERS OUT OF BUSINESS! We oppose efforts to undermine the abilities of government agencies to serve and protect the public and agriculture by removing industry expertise and scientific tools from the process. THE ONLY SOUND SCIENCE WE BELIEVE IN IS THE SCIENCE THAT SUPPPORTS OUR CAUSE! We oppose destructive attacks on consumer confidence in the food supply. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPPOSING VIEW! We oppose the isolationist, protectionist views of world trade that would condemn American agriculture to a dead-end, no growth future in a world with staggering food needs. PACKERS HATE PAYING YOU HIGH PRICES FOR YOUR CATTLE![/code]
 
A

Anonymous

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chief: "YOU ALSO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO GO BROKE!"

Or the freedom to join a blaming organization so you can blame someone or something for your poor management decisions.


chief: "AFTER ALL, WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT THAT MONEY CAN BUY!"

How ironic coming from those who favor further government intervention into the free enterprise system.


chief: "LIKE THE NARROW INTEREST OF SOME CATTLEMEN TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING!"

No, like the narrow interest of the "PERCEIVED" problems they blame for low cattle prices and their lawsuit and government intervention solutions for these "PERCEIVED" problems.


chief: "WE LOVE LACK OF COMPETITION!"

Obviously, if you don't want packers bidding on your feeder calves and would rather have the federal government pick and chose who can and who cannot own cattle.


chief: "LET PACKERS OWN THEIR OWN LIVESTOCK AND FORCE INDEPENDENT PRODUCERS OUT OF BUSINESS!"

Why not place controls on "rancher concentration" while you are looking for government intervention in regulating the cattle industry?

After all, isn't "rancher concentration" affecting small producers?


chief: "THE ONLY SOUND SCIENCE WE BELIEVE IN IS THE SCIENCE THAT SUPPPORTS OUR CAUSE!"

You said a mouthful there. If that means that certain BSE precautionary measures are not good enough to assure that Canadian beef is safe yet is good enough to assure that U.S. beef is safe, SO BE IT. The end (lies about the safety of Canadian beef) justifies the means (keeping the Canadian border closed to live cattle that are coming down now in boxes).


chief: "YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPPOSING VIEW!"

Of course you are but the issue is whether or not that opinion can be supported by factual information.


chief: "PACKERS HATE PAYING YOU HIGH PRICES FOR YOUR CATTLE!"

I suppose feeders love to pay high prices for feeder cattle?



Your arguments said nothing!



~SH~
 

mrj

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Chief, it must make your day that you have the right to slander without cause.

SH, thanks for calling chief on his juvenile outburst against anyone who dares to point out attacks on the food industries in this country.

MRJ
 

the chief

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Sorry, MRJ, that is NOT slander. It is my opinion of the state of the meat industry.

It is NOT an attack on your beloved profession, just on who controls it.

I guess you never owned hogs, did you? The cattleman is the last bastion of the old agricultural business of individual ownership. DOn't worry, it will change too. Then someday, you will look back at this time and wonder, "Hmmmm, were they right?"

Meanwhile, enjoy your ability to perform your job independently. It is worth hanging onto and there are some out there fighting for your right to keep it. It is up to each of us to believe which group will keep that independence for us and whether you agree or not, each of us is entitled to an opinion.

And yes, SH, my opinions are based on fact. Personal experience is a better teacher than any farm group literature.
 

Beefman

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Chief......the line of critics of anything written by the Agribusiness Freedom Foundation is predictable. Of interest, I've yet to read a post where someone has taken them to task and rebutted them with factual information on any of their statements.

Chief...."The cattleman is the last bastion of the old agricultural business of individual ownership. DOn't worry, it will change too."

How you plan to support this statement?

Beefman[/quote]
 
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Anonymous

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chief: "And yes, SH, my opinions are based on fact."

Ok, lets find out shall we?

Back this statement with fact..........

chief (previous): "LET PACKERS OWN THEIR OWN LIVESTOCK AND FORCE INDEPENDENT PRODUCERS OUT OF BUSINESS!"

Explain how packers bidding on feeder calves will force independent producers out of business?

While you are at it, why don't you address the issue of "rancher concentration" and how that has affected the smaller independant producer?

How can packers control the industry without controlling the land, livestock, and machinery?

Observe as these questions remain unanswered by those who cannot answer them.


~SH~
 

Tam

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Beefman said:
Chief......the line of critics of anything written by the Agribusiness Freedom Foundation is predictable. Of interest, I've yet to read a post where someone has taken them to task and rebutted them with factual information on any of their statements.

Chief...."The cattleman is the last bastion of the old agricultural business of individual ownership. DOn't worry, it will change too."

How you plan to support this statement?

Beefman
[/quote]

I agree they call AFF all kinds of things but not once have I read anything to contradict what was written.
 

mrj

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the chief said:
Sorry, MRJ, that is NOT slander. It is my opinion of the state of the meat industry.

And my opinion is that it can be and is both!

It is NOT an attack on your beloved profession, just on who controls it.

We who raise cattle still have a pretty high degree of control. We can yet choose how and to whom we sell our cattle. Maybe not for long ,if those who want us only to have the sale barns as THE place to "market" our cattle win on the so called Packer Ban legislation.


I guess you never owned hogs, did you? The cattleman is the last bastion of the old agricultural business of individual ownership. DOn't worry, it will change too. Then someday, you will look back at this time and wonder, "Hmmmm, were they right?"

I never personally owned hogs, hoever I did grow up in family that ran them for two and a half generations. I DO know that modern methods are vastly superior to the pretty decent operation they had. Incidentally, I believe the quick to get in and quick to get out creating wild market fluctuations has more to do with the so called demise of the farmer hog producer than any evil corporate control. I also know that there STILL are people who raise hogs during one or another stage of their development because that fits in better with their small farming operation that would a "town job" and pays better as well.

Meanwhile, enjoy your ability to perform your job independently. It is worth hanging onto and there are some out there fighting for your right to keep it. It is up to each of us to believe which group will keep that independence for us and whether you agree or not, each of us is entitled to an opinion.

We probably disagree upon which organizations and indididuals it is who truly are fighting for the rights of independent cattlemen. I KNOW that NCBA and Farm Bureau are leaders in that arena.

And yes, SH, my opinions are based on fact. Personal experience is a better teacher than any farm group literature.

Granted once burned is twice shy. Hopefully, you do realize and are willing to admit that at times "personal experience" blinds one to the possibility of personal failure to recognize opportunities for success, as well as problems one could have handled in a different way that may have prevented disastrous results to ones business. This is not to say that is/was your situation, but that it has been/is so for some people in agriculture, maybe most of us at one time or another. We have to be willing to recognize, admit, and learn from small and large problems if we are to succeed in any business. Probably even more so in agriculture, given the miniscule return on investment in the best of times.
 

Murgen

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Here's a lovely non-profit advocacy foundation -- labeled Center for Consumer Freedom -- primarily funded in the early days by Phillip Morris...

Isn't the consumer advocacy group one of those organizations with paid "hacks"
 

mrj

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reader (the Second) said:
Murgen said:
Here's a lovely non-profit advocacy foundation -- labeled Center for Consumer Freedom -- primarily funded in the early days by Phillip Morris...

Isn't the consumer advocacy group one of those organizations with paid "hacks"

Sorry, forgot to click on the sarcasm emoticon :wink:

It is hard to miss the fact that your sarcasm is directed at trashing a person and organization for who and what they are rather than for anything they have said or done in their work for the Center for Consumer Freedom. How honest is that?

MRJ
 

mrj

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reader (the Second) said:
MRJ said:
reader (the Second) said:
Sorry, forgot to click on the sarcasm emoticon :wink:

It is hard to miss the fact that your sarcasm is directed at trashing a person and organization for who and what they are rather than for anything they have said or done in their work for the Center for Consumer Freedom. How honest is that?

MRJ

MRJ if you tell me you are ALSO in favor of the Center for Consumer Freedom, I'll cry. You disappoint me. I understand defending Dittmer, but not this guy Berman. Enough said. I suppose you think Phillip Morris is right and non-smokers should put up with smokers in restaurants so that they (Phillip Morris) won't lose a few million of their billions of revenus?

I don't know enough about CCF to know if I favor it or not.

First, I do not smoke, am allergic to cigarette smoke, and greatly appreciate smoke free businesses. I also believe there should be businesses who can cater to smokers if they so desire, until such time as tobacco and smoking become illegal.

Second, Philip Morris Company is far more than tobacco. It is a huge food company.

Third, it is a cold, hard fact that there are companies who attack food producers and businesses to further their own product. It has happened to beef and other meats when some companies wanted to sell vegetable oils. They convinced government entities that animal fats are bad for health. More current and possibly even more honest research is showing that there are components in beef fat, for instance, that are beneficial, maybe even necessary for human health. And that is only one example!

If CCF has done honest and accurate work in support of foods and the rights of smokers to have places they can eat, while the rest of us also have places we can eat smoke free, please tell me how that is dishonest.

Untill I see some credible evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the man and organization in question, the jury is out.

You disappoint me that you do not feel the same, basing your antagonism apparently on the sole fact that tobacco companies and restaurants hired him, possibly to help promote their civil rights in the face of over zealous anti-smoking and anti-fast food organizations.

When you have facts along the lines I enumerated here to support your bias, I will listen.

MRJ
 
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Anonymous

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reader,

Can you or can you not contradict anything Dittmer has stated wtih opposing facts?



~SH~
 

Tam

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~SH~ said:
reader,

Can you or can you not contradict anything Dittmer has stated wtih opposing facts?



~SH~

Well I took note of the number of Readers posts on Sat. night and it was 618 Sunday night it is 660 that is 42 posts in one day :shock: that must set a record of some kind. BUT she still never posted anything to contradict Dittmers article. :? I think that must mean she was either hoping we would forget and let her get away with discrediting the man without facts :???: or she was just to busy insulting peoples intelligence on CWD(MAD DEER) to look anything else up SH. :wink:
 

Mike

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"U.S. beef is not safe and continually puts consumers at risk."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The above statement is attributed to R-calf by Dittmer. Did R-calf say this?

I would like to see the quote.
 

Mike

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Mike said:
"U.S. beef is not safe and continually puts consumers at risk."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The above statement is attributed to R-calf by Dittmer. Did R-calf say this?

I would like to see the quote.

WOULD SOMEBODY WHO IS PRIVY TO R-CALF INFORMATION PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Did R-calf say what Dittmer said they did?
 

Sandhusker

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Mike said:
Mike said:
"U.S. beef is not safe and continually puts consumers at risk."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The above statement is attributed to R-calf by Dittmer. Did R-calf say this?

I would like to see the quote.

WOULD SOMEBODY WHO IS PRIVY TO R-CALF INFORMATION PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Did R-calf say what Dittmer said they did?

I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that R-CALF did NOT say that. I suppose I'll have to prove that they didn't...... :?
 

frenchie

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Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
Mike said:
"U.S. beef is not safe and continually puts consumers at risk."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The above statement is attributed to R-calf by Dittmer. Did R-calf say this?

I would like to see the quote.

WOULD SOMEBODY WHO IS PRIVY TO R-CALF INFORMATION PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Did R-calf say what Dittmer said they did?

I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that R-CALF did NOT say that. I suppose I'll have to prove that they didn't...... :?

Please do.... :wink:
 

Mike

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Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
Mike said:
"U.S. beef is not safe and continually puts consumers at risk."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The above statement is attributed to R-calf by Dittmer. Did R-calf say this?

I would like to see the quote.

WOULD SOMEBODY WHO IS PRIVY TO R-CALF INFORMATION PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Did R-calf say what Dittmer said they did?

I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that R-CALF did NOT say that. I suppose I'll have to prove that they didn't...... :?

I appreciate your efforts Sandhusker but I doubt you could prove they didn't. Someone would have to prove R-Calf did say it.
I read this on Dittmer's site. With all the hullaballoo about him being so "factual" the past few days I was just wondering why R-Calf would say this? If they did, they are fools, if they didn't, Dittmer is not so " factual" after all.
One thing for sure. He certainly has an axe to grind with R-Calf. Makes me want to "follow the money" and see where it leads.
 

rancher

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Mike said:
Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
WOULD SOMEBODY WHO IS PRIVY TO R-CALF INFORMATION PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Did R-calf say what Dittmer said they did?

I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that R-CALF did NOT say that. I suppose I'll have to prove that they didn't...... :?

I appreciate your efforts Sandhusker but I doubt you could prove they didn't. Someone would have to prove R-Calf did say it.
I read this on Dittmer's site. With all the hullaballoo about him being so "factual" the past few days I was just wondering why R-Calf would say this? If they did, they are fools, if they didn't, Dittmer is not so " factual" after all.
One thing for sure. He certainly has an axe to grind with R-Calf. Makes me want to "follow the money" and see where it leads.

We all know where the money is coming from? :wink:
 

Sandhusker

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frenchie said:
Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
WOULD SOMEBODY WHO IS PRIVY TO R-CALF INFORMATION PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Did R-calf say what Dittmer said they did?

I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that R-CALF did NOT say that. I suppose I'll have to prove that they didn't...... :?

Please do.... :wink:

Take me up on that one, Frenchie?
 

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