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The Barroom Fight - Interesting Concept

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
This is the one of the most appropriate analogies I have seen. You cannot be a winner until the other side feels like they have been defeated.

Nebraska Alliance - Times Herald, 25 Jul 2006

Why the world should stand back and let Israel do what it has to do.
Dave Wilson, Capt. retired, US Navy


When I was in the Navy, I once witnessed a bar fight in downtown Olongapo (Philippines) that still haunts my dreams. The fight was between a big oafish Marine and a rather soft-spoken, medium sized Latino sailor from my ship.

All evening the Marine had been trying to pick a fight with one of us and had finally set his sights on this diminutive shipmate of mine . . . Figuring him for a safe target. When my friend refused to be goaded into a fight the Marine sucker punched him from behind on the side of the head so hard that blood instantly started to pour from this poor man's mutilated ear.

Everyone present was horrified and was prepared to absolutely murder this Marine, but my shipmate quickly turned on him and began to single-handedly back him towards a corner with a series of stinging jabs and upper cuts that gave more than a hint to a youth spent boxing in a small gym in the Bronx.

Each punch opened a cut on the Marine's startled face and by the time he had been backed completely into the corner he was blubbering for someone to stop the fight. He invoked his split lips and chipped teeth as reasons to stop the fight. He begged us to stop the fight because he could barely see through the river of blood that was pouring out of his split and swollen brows.

Nobody moved. Not one person.

The only sound in the bar was the sickening staccato sound of this sailor's lightning fast fists making contact with new areas of the Marine's head. The only sound I have heard since that was remotely similar was from the first Rocky film when Sylvester Stallone was punching sides of beef in the meat locker.

Finally the Marine's pleading turned to screams.... a high, almost womanly shriek. And still the punches continued relentlessly. Several people in the bar took a few tentative steps as though they wanted to try to break it up at that point, but hands reached out from the crowd and held them tight. I'm not ashamed to say that mine were two of the hands that held someone back.

You see, in between each blow the sailor had begun chanting a soft cadence: "Say [punch] you [punch] give [punch] up [punch]... say [punch] you [punch]were [punch] wrong [punch]".

He had been repeating it to the Marine almost from the start but we only became aware of it when the typical barroom cheers had died down and we began to be sickened by the sight and sound of the carnage.

This Marine stood there shrieking in the corner of the bar trying futilely to block the carefully timed punches that were cutting his head to tatters... right down to the skull in places. But he refused to say that he gave up... Or that he was wrong.

Even in the delirium of his beating he believed in his heart that someone would stop the fight before he had to admit defeat. I'm sure this strategy had served him well in the past and had allowed him to continue on his career as a barroom bully.

Finally, in a wail of agony the Marine shrieked "I give up", and we gently backed the sailor away from him.

I'm sure you can guess why I have shared this story today.

I'm not particularly proud to have been witness to such a bloody spectacle, and the sound of that Marine's woman-like shrieks will haunt me to my grave. But I learned something that evening that Israel had better learn for itself if it is to finally be rid of at least one of its tormentors:

This is one time an Arab aggressor must be allowed to be beaten so badly that every civilized nation will stand in horror, wanting desperately to step in and stop the carnage... but knowing that the fight will only truly be over when one side gives up and finally admits defeat.

Just as every person who had ever rescued that bully from admitting defeat helped create the cowardly brute I saw that evening in the bar, every well-intentioned power that has ever stepped in and negotiated a ceasefire for an Arab aggressor has helped create the monsters we see around us today.

President Lahoud of Lebanon, a big Hezbollah supporter and a close ally of Syria, has been shrieking non-stop to the UN Security Council for the past two days to get them to force Israel into a cease fire.

Clearly he has been reading his autographed copy of 'Military Success for Dummies Arab Despots' by the late Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt. Ever since Nasser accidentally discovered the trick in '56, every subsequent Arab leader has stuck to his tried and true formula for military success: Instigate a war.

Once the war is well underway and you are in the process of having your ass handed to you... get a few world powers to force your western opponent into a cease fire.

Whatever you do, don't surrender or submit to any terms dictated by your enemy. That would ruin everything! All you have to do is wait it out and eventually the world will become sickened at what is being done to your soldiers and civilian population... and will force a truce.

Once a truce has been called you can resume your intransigence (which probably caused the conflict in the first place), and even declare victory as your opponent leaves the field of battle.

This tactic has never failed. Not once.

In fact it worked so will for the Egyptians in 1973, that to this day they celebrate the Yom Kippur War - a crushing defeat at the hands of Israel - as a military victory! No kidding... it's a national holiday over there!

President Lahoud has already begun to shriek like a school girl to the UN Security Council to "Stop the violence and arrange a cease- fire, and then after that we'll be ready to discuss all matters."

Uh huh. Forgive me if I find that a tad hard to swallow. He allowed Hezbollah to take over his country. He allowed the regular Lebanese army to provide radar targeting data for the Hezbollah missile that struck the Israeli destroyer. He has turned a blind eye while Iranian and Syrian weapons, advisers and money have poured into his country.

And now that his country is in ruins he wants to call it a draw.

As much as it may sicken the world to stand by and watch it happen, strong hands need to hold back the weak-hearted and let the fight continue until one side finally admits unambiguous defeat.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Wonderful. Absolutely WONDERFUL post!


Many Thanks!

By the way, has anybody got the latest score?

Last I heard, it was 674 to 76 in favor of Israel.
 

BBJ

Well-known member
Mike said:
Wonderful. Absolutely WONDERFUL post!


Many Thanks!

By the way, has anybody got the latest score?

Last I heard, it was 674 to 76 in favor of Israel.

I witnessed the same type of fight between my brother and a friend. One night while drinking and partying this "friend" sucker punched my brother, who went to his knees, which he came off of in a flash and comenced beating this poor soul. Once on the ground he would stop his punches, and ask the boy, are we friends? (This was merely a time of high school age boys being boys) The first few answers were NO with some obscenities (SP?) added in. That would result in a severe hit to the face followed by the same question. After a few good licks to the head this one time friend turned enemy, suddenly became known as a freind again. We then loaded him in the truck and took him to get a few stitches.

The next day was pretty comical seeing one with stiches and the other two black eyes. The friend never once tried my brother again but would step in for him at any given time. Sometimes a good a#@ whippin' is all it takes. I've had mine and it was the only one that I needed to know when was the right time to stand up.
 

ranchwife

Well-known member
Liberty Belle------WOW!!! Excellent post.....well said!! What a way to have to learn a lesson, but I bet it was a lesson he will NEVER forget!!!
 

Brad S

Well-known member
This seems like a valid enough analysis, but what if Syria and Iran actively enter the war. They'd already be there if not for the US. Does the US remove Syria and Iran from the conflict? We'd heve to intervene on behalf of Isreal (perhaps gladly).

I think Rice is playing this about right - letting Isreal reduce hez#$%^&* and holding out Iran with fear.
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Great post!

A neighbor tells the story of a big, stout coward, who was always picking on drunks and smaller guys, and getting away with it for a long time. One night he was picking on a smaller guy and the little feller went outside with him. In just a little while he had the big guy, knocked to the ground and out of it. He drug him over to a car and propped his arm against a wheel and stomped it, breaking the big guys arm. He said as he walked away, "There. He'll think twice before he picks on someone else again!"

The neighbor said it really cured him.

Bullies need to get whipped and whipped hard, to learn to quit being bullies. And it's best if it's a smaller guy who does it.
 

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
Your story reminds me of a story they tell about my father. He wasn't very big and those who didn't know him didn't realize his abilities.

During the depression his father moved the family to town because of his wife's bad health problems. The town bully, a guy probably twice Dad's size, was knocking younger and smaller kids around and generally making life miserable for everyone.

Dad walked around a corner one night to see the bully taking his boots to a smaller friend of Dad's. Dad walked up to them, tapped the bully on the shoulder, smashed his nose when he turned around, and proceeded to mop up the street with the slob.

The bully's brother called the cop and the cop got there just as Dad was walking up the street away from the moaning bully lying in a pool of his own blood on the sidewalk.

The cop, who knew exactly what the bully had been up to, asked Dad if there had been any trouble? Dad told him nothing that hadn't been taken care of already. The cop just grinned and went home.

This was an attitude adjustment for the bully. No one had trouble with him again and he later became a friend of Dad's, just after Dad won the lightweight Golden Gloves boxing title in ND!!

Dad went on to coach boxing at the high school level and in the army during World War II. He also taught me to box. Unfortunately, Mother put a stop to my pugilistic career when I broke my male cousin's nose. Darn kid just couldn’t learn to keep his guard up.
 

katrina

Well-known member
Good one..... LB, and all. My dad taught me to box too. He has had his share of scraps. I don't know if it was the fact dad is short and was red headed... But yes we used to box at home all the time. I can remember Pistol Miller coming the night before branding and my brother and I went 3 rounds with scoring and the whole nine yards. Pistol was my manager... :D
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
katrina said:
Good one..... LB, and all. My dad taught me to box too. He has had his share of scraps. I don't know if it was the fact dad is short and was red headed... But yes we used to box at home all the time. I can remember Pistol Miller coming the night before branding and my brother and I went 3 rounds with scoring and the whole nine yards. Pistol was my manager... :D

Poor old Pistol met his death when a bunch of corral panels fell over on him. Guess he at least died with his boots on.
 

ranchwife

Well-known member
isn't it great when you see the town bully get taken down a notch or two......or three!!!! :D :D :D :D It finally reaches the point when ya gotta say "enough is ENOUGH!!!!" :wink:
 

Steve

Well-known member
Lest we forget.....

The Marine sentries at the gate were forbidden from using live ammuntion, for fear that a discharge might kill a civilian, so they were powerless to stop him. According to one Marine survivor, the driver was smiling as he sped past him.

The death toll was 241 American servicemen: 220 Marines, 18 Navy personnel and 3 Army soldiers. Sixty Americans were injured.

This was the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since the Battle of Iwo Jima of World War II.

The attack remains the deadliest post-World War II attack on Americans overseas.




Robert Dean Stethem
SW-2 (Diver), United States Navy
This young Navy diver was returning from an assignment in the Middle East when the commercial jet on which he was a passenger was hijacked by terrorists. He was shot to death, after being tortured, by the terrorists on June 15, 1985.

He is buried in Section 59 of Arlington National Cematery, near a number of other Americans who were victims of worldwide terrorism.

Petty Officer Robert Dean Stethem, who was killed as he was planning to return home from Greece aboard TWA Flight 847. The flight was hijacked to Beirut, Lebanon, and Stethem was shot in the head, his body dumped on the tarmac. The Lebanese hijackers held 39 other people hostage for 17 days, demanding that Israel release several hundred Shiite Muslim prisoners.

Stethem was targeted because he was part of the U.S. military. He was posthumously awarded a Purple Heart and Bronze Star. In 1995, the newly commissioned destroyer was named for him.

"Stethem, a former Navy Seabee, was killed in June 1985 during the hijacking of a TWA jet in Lebanon. Stethem, a passenger on the flight, was singled out by the terrorists because of his military status. He was badly beaten and ultimately executed after the terrorists' demands were not met.

Like a bully, Hezbollah, fights on it's terms and only when it's opponents' hands are tied....either by UN rules, or actual rope, the effect is the same, a bully gets an unfair advantage in a fight......

They dragged him out of his seat, tied his hands and then beat him up. ... They kicked him in the face and knee caps and kept kicking him until they had broken all his ribs. Then they tried to knock him out with the butt of a pistol -- they kept hitting him over the head but he was very strong and they couldn't knock him out. ... Later they dragged him away and shot him."

The Marine sentries at the gate were forbidden from using live ammuntion,
 

Murgen

Well-known member
In 1967, Egypt, thought they would bully Israel. They got a bad spanking. Jordan entered the fray, thinking they would win favour with Egypt, they got a spanking.

Syria ran with their tails between their legs, Iran, Irag, and Lebanon ran. They had mechanical failures, if I remember correctly.

Eygpt and Jordan don't bother Israel anymore. The rest do, I say they need a good spanking!
 
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