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The EPA backs down!!!!

leanin' H

Well-known member
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/10/wyoming-welder-facing-16m-in-fines-beats-epa-in-battle-over-stock-pond.html?intcmp=hpbt2

What a decent ending for a story I have closely watched. Another case of the federal government over-reaching and getting slapped for it. I won't call this case a win, as the feds did require willows to be planted and a livestock fence to be built on PRIVATE PROPERTY, after the stock pond that they claimed wasn't a stock pond turned out to be a stock pond! Kudos to a family who refused to be bullied by out-of-touch bureaucrats following a agenda paid for by the radical environmental movement. Can you imagine if this stock pond happened to be full of 300 million gallons of toxic mine waste and it was dumped into the Colorado river basin? Bet the landowner would have served decades in prison. Oh wait, but didn't this same agency do EXACTLY that? And the punishment was...........................??? $300,000 of blankets and beads for the Navajo Nation to smooth things over. But they wanted 16 MILLION for a family that built a stock pond on their own property? What an absolute embarrassment our federal government agencies tasked with "saving the west" have become!!!
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Thanks 'H. I wondered what became of this. Of course I am happy that the EPA backed down, but no way should they have been able to tell the rancher what to do with his STOCK POND.
 

mrj

Well-known member
Great result........if they actually stop harassing that family.

Wonder if he will get his costs back, plus a big bundle of money to boot, like the environment wacko's do when they sue government agencies and win??? In this case, that would definitely be justified.

mrj
 

Traveler

Well-known member
How many other issues are going on like this that aren't being reported on, and won't have a positive outcome? Without the backlash, the federal government wouldn't have agreed to settle, imo.

All of these alphabet agencies have gotten their direction from higher up, so all of you that have decided "Never Trump", just remember all of the abuses these government agencies, including the IRS, have bestowed on their "adversaries". Obama will have just gotten the ball rolling compared to what's to come with Hillary.
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
If Trump was so convinced he could beat the Butcher of Benghazi, why didn't he just run against her head to head as what he really is, a liberal Democrat? The fix was in a long time ago, but many drank the Trump Kool Aid and fell for it hook, line, & sinker. Every vote for Trump puts Hillary in the White House.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Put me down as a never Hillary, I'll vote for trump and deal with the dry heaves later. Wouldn't it be nice if trump stood against a single crappy statist tenement - like property rights being seized by statists or statist chronies like trump? ( I don't consider trumps use of eminent domain any better)

" he stands for everything bad, including supporting Hillary, but he might be better than Hillary" - yeah, that's not a compelling political slogan
 

Silver

Well-known member
I think your Republican Party and your country would be better served by no one voting GOP in the upcoming election. In my mind this would force a total rebuild of the republican party with benefits for many years to come. Surely a nation as great as yours could survive 4 more years of democrat rule and the following years under the rebuilt version of the GOP would surely be better than what the dolt flying the red banner at present offers.
The only thing I can think of more humiliating than having Schrumph as my leader is having a fella named Trudeau with the job.
 

Traveler

Well-known member
Silver said:
I think your Republican Party and your country would be better served by no one voting GOP in the upcoming election. In my mind this would force a total rebuild of the republican party with benefits for many years to come. Surely a nation as great as yours could survive 4 more years of democrat rule and the following years under the rebuilt version of the GOP would surely be better than what the dolt flying the red banner at present offers.
The only thing I can think of more humiliating than having Schrumph as my leader is having a fella named Trudeau with the job.
For one thing, the make up of the Supreme Court is at play, and secondly, we'd be one big gun free zone ripe for the picking by the end of her first term. That's just for starters.
 

George

Well-known member
My cousin bought some ground that showed many decades back the large creek that is now on the east side of the property ( by mother natures doing ) used to run down the middle, He went to the local ASCS office and got permission to remove the scrub brush in the old creek bed. Spent several thousand dollars making it into highly productive ground.

Two years later the EPA came in and even though he had all the correct paper work made him plant junk brush or face substantial jail time. They claimed it was a "wet land" even though there had not been water there in several decades - - - just another case of government over reach!
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
George said:
My cousin bought some ground that showed many decades back the large creek that is now on the east side of the property ( by mother natures doing ) used to run down the middle, He went to the local ASCS office and got permission to remove the scrub brush in the old creek bed. Spent several thousand dollars making it into highly productive ground.

Two years later the EPA came in and even though he had all the correct paper work made him plant junk brush or face substantial jail time. They claimed it was a "wet land" even though there had not been water there in several decades - - - just another case of government over reach!

They are heady with the power afforded them. I know people (who listen to NPR) that do not think the EPA
is any stronger than they ever were. He has wetlands on his place, so at some point, it might get interesting. Talk about having your
head in the sand. They don't like the MSM so they listen to even worse propaganda.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Oh, NPR $&@??$ $&@&?! Sorry FH, you didn't need to hear that. I think Trudeau may be better than Hillary - at least he is honest. I used to think the people would triumph no matter the scoundrel in office. Now half our population damn well expects, even demands a free life. Those riots are more about stealing more free stuff from producers than some thug getting shot. Today it seems like producers are slaves of the recipient class, and the recipient class has sufficient votes to enforce producer servitude. The U.S. is no stronger than the majority of its voters (no country is). If Hillary is elected, her court appointments will finish destroying what's left of the constitution through interpretation, and the "reforms" would make Stalin blush. To the trump rally rioters that think they can deny right to assembly, censure free speech, and deny right to association: I have some Greek expression for you: "M L"
 

Denny

Well-known member
On his sprawling 9 acre ranch . Are you kidding me he built a private recreational pond not a livestock watering system if I only had 9 acres of grass I sure as hell wouldn't turn a big portion into a pond. For 9 acres here you could run 2 or 3 cows and water them with buckets. The only reason he built it was for recreational purposes I'm sure the livestock part was his loop hole. Its abuse's like this that give legitimate farmers and ranchers tougher rules and regulations. Common sense here would prevail as we all know damn well that it's a no no.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Hey Denny, its a matter of private property rights! What the hell is wrong with you? If a guy doesn't have 100 acres he doesn't count? Or is it 1000 acres? Or 10000 acres? But since you are a big-shot, maybe you can be our king and you can decide what folks can do on their property? Abuse my butt! A guy builds a pond on a creek on his place and you side with the Feds? The same feds who wanted a 16 million dollar fine on a working guy who should be able to do what he wants on his land? Maybe that flies in Minnesota but it sure as hell doesn't cut the mustard out west. I will be sure and ask your permission before I dig a post hole on the 20 acres I live on. Hopefully you highness will allow a piss poor little guy like me the honor of even addressing you!

If you haven't guessed, I am mad as hell and simply incredulous that you have the gall to spew something so damn condescending and arrogant. You usually have a lot of great things to say and I have respected you for the kind of cattle you raise and your operation. I sure did lose some respect tonight! But I am not important because I don't have 5000 head of cattle and am not a land baron like you Denny. So you probably don't give a rats hind quarters what I think! Whether a guy has 9 acres or 900000, private property rights in the United States of America oughta mean something!!!!! Maybe if your welding business got run outa town on a rail because you weren't big enough, you'd change your tune?
 

Brad S

Well-known member
For sure the stock pond had multiple uses - Denny's point is right about that.

As for abuses - the tenth amendment states "all powers not specifically ceeded to the federal government belong to the state. Right there is the abuse to end all discussion about abuse. It's a state matter to the end of the world - and the EPA is abusing the rule of law.

What if he just said he liked stock piling some fresh water to prepare against shortages? I think that makes him smart and the EPA thinks that makes him a criminal, and the constitution suggests it's neither of our business.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
burnt said:
Brad S said:
... I think Trudeau may be better than Hillary - at least he is honest...

You wouldn't be the first to confuse outright stupidity with honesty.

Now we know Brad's delusional. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I haven't invested much time watching Trudeau. he seems like an ideolog socialist. Hillary is a socialist just to amass more power. Perspective is a funny thing - the socialist that is going to tyranize you personally always seems the worst.
 

George

Well-known member
Brad S said:
For sure the stock pond had multiple uses - Denny's point is right about that.

As for abuses - the tenth amendment states "all powers not specifically ceeded to the federal government belong to the state. Right there is the abuse to end all discussion about abuse. It's a state matter to the end of the world - and the EPA is abusing the rule of law.

.

This is where we all get lost!!!!!
 

Denny

Well-known member
leanin' H said:
Hey Denny, its a matter of private property rights! What the hell is wrong with you? If a guy doesn't have 100 acres he doesn't count? Or is it 1000 acres? Or 10000 acres? But since you are a big-shot, maybe you can be our king and you can decide what folks can do on their property? Abuse my butt! A guy builds a pond on a creek on his place and you side with the Feds? The same feds who wanted a 16 million dollar fine on a working guy who should be able to do what he wants on his land? Maybe that flies in Minnesota but it sure as hell doesn't cut the mustard out west. I will be sure and ask your permission before I dig a post hole on the 20 acres I live on. Hopefully you highness will allow a p*** poor little guy like me the honor of even addressing you!

If you haven't guessed, I am mad as hell and simply incredulous that you have the gall to spew something so damn condescending and arrogant. You usually have a lot of great things to say and I have respected you for the kind of cattle you raise and your operation. I sure did lose some respect tonight! But I am not important because I don't have 5000 head of cattle and am not a land baron like you Denny. So you probably don't give a rats hind quarters what I think! Whether a guy has 9 acres or 900000, private property rights in the United States of America oughta mean something!!!!! Maybe if your welding business got run outa town on a rail because you weren't big enough, you'd change your tune?

And everyone knows that when dealing with water it's a very slippery slope as I do plenty of draining and ditch cleaning, and yes I have a problem with this situation in know means was that diversion ever meant to be used for livestock watering in that aspect. It was constructed for recreational purposes and because of his arrogance everyone else will have to pay the consequences for legitimate projects going forward in his area. Were the fines proposed excessive hell yes was the welder in this case in the wrong I believe so. I'm not arrogant but I do believe some common sense should prevail but I guess out west that's something that gets buried with emotion. I don't know what your hard on with my welding business first its if someone didn't think outside the box their would be no welder's, now run it out of town. LET ME TELL you there are plenty of hoops I jump through to be in business so guys like you CAN just grab your lunch box and not have any of the stress. I build a whopping 6 to 10 trailers a year I don't think its more than a hobby at this point so if they shut me down It would make my wife VERY happy.

I guess my opinion doesn't matter How about AG tax land these same guys buy up ag land for big money do absolutely no farming or ranching and get the ag credits. Now they are beginning to make them prove they are ag related and not just rural recreation. I've thought this guy was in the wrong from the first time I heard of this he knew what he was doing and got called out on it plain and simple.

I'm not a land baron and I don't have 5000 head not even 500 head of cattle not even 300 head but I do have common sense and I do have enough fortitude to allow someone else their opinion without being so one sided. You feel he was a 100% with in his rights and I see it as not so much it was sneaky and under handed to apply for a livestock SO CALLED pond when he created a small private lake for swimming and fishing. And yes 9 acres is not nor ever will be a RANCH.....
 

Denny

Well-known member
I just went and reread this the part where it says it was filled by a natural stream which here makes them public water for everyone's use. They cant cross private property to use it but they can ride their raft or canoe or any other personal water craft that it will accommodate. In know way would you even attempt that here diverting stream water to fill your own private lake take a look at the photos don't see any livestock a big mowed lawn a dock a raft and some other water recreation devices. What he really wanted was his own swimming hole. I know DAMN well in MN the DNR would fine you for that stupidity.

Maybe do a little history on this country and see a lot of western pioneers didn't like rules packed their bags and went where there were none but guess what were a nation governed by rules and regulations other wise the abuse's would run rapid from people spouting WELL I'M WITH IN MY RIGHTS. THERE are more people on this earth than me or you or the 9 acre rancher/welder with 3 of his 9 acres now under water must be some thirsty livestock there pard.
 
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