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The EPA backs down!!!!

loomixguy

Well-known member
I'd like some thoughts, and I'm not in any way trying to ruffle feathers. There is a creek runs through my folk's place. About 20 years ago, a guy bought a place upstream from my folks. He immediately built a couple of BIG ponds on the property and planted a mess of evergreen trees. Long story short, he pumped water from the creek to not only fill those ponds but to water all those trees. When the rain quit one year, he pumped so much water that not even a trickle made it on downstream to our place, and forced my mom to redo a bunch of fencing that would enable the renters cattle to come water at the well up by the buildings. I have walked that creek from our place upstream to the source, about 4 miles as the crow flies, and more like 7 or 8 as the creek flows. At the driest, there was plenty of water from the source all the way to tree boy's place, and just downstream from where his pipe is in the creek, it dried up. He has a pump house right by the creek, and has had both a suck hose or a pipe right in the water.
Mom talked to about everybody you can think of about this, the NRD people, SCS, irrigation district, you name it, and they all pretty much brushed her off. One genius told her tree boy would have to be caught red handed before anything could be done. The suction hose in the creek and the pump house right there, along with lines running to his ponds and trees wasn't enough proof for them that he was pumping water from the creek. Shortly after all this mom's health began to deteriorate and she lost the strength to fight it. My brother never did a damn thing about it while he was alive & PR of her estate....and, for now, it's my problem.
The power plant where I work is maybe 50 yards from tree boy's driveway, and when I do my overnights, there is no problem hearing him start the motor up & begin pumping, usually about a half hour before dark, and he'll still be pumping when I go home at 6am.
Any suggestions on who I might contact about this? What he's doing can't be legal, can it? Tree boy has always been a prick who thinks he's totally above the law, and now I have a guy wanting to rent the pasture and with some work we're doing at the place, it wouldn't be very convenient for them to come water by the house when they should be able to water from the creek.

Thoughts?
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
In Montana if he has used that water for a long time, he might be able to file a permit due to past use.
I think Mike provided you with a wealth of information. Good luck!
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Denny if you cant side with a landowner who built a stockpond on a stream and would rather side with the federal government and the over reach and stupidity that comes with agencies like the EPA then you and I will have to disagree by a mile on this one! I am very grateful "Guys like me" have your permission to grab our pathetic little lunch boxes and go to our meaningless jobs where we have absolutely no stress! I ran my own electrical contracting business for almost 10 years and I know all about the stress that comes with having your own business. But I find plenty of stress about every day at my job or otherwise. I have nothing but praise for folks like you who have small businesses and create jobs and products for people. Your comment on "western pioneers" is curious or maybe you are really trying to fan the flames? My family came west in the mid 1800's to build a ranch and escape religious persecution. They sure didn't come out here for the water or grass or the free-for-all, no rules BS you speak of! Your mind set is what keeps politicians employed back in DC. The idea that someone hundreds or thousands of miles away has a better perspective than local folks is hilarious. If one horse or a back yard beef drinks out of that pond, then its a stock pond. This isn't some Minnesota river that's 100 yards wide. This is a 2 foot wide 18 inch deep creek running over and through 9 acres that an American citizen owns! So he damned up a pond? The water comes in and flows out. Waterfowl and other critters can use it. But the EPA has to keep their thumbs on everyone. THIS IS ABOUT CONTROL, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! Its about over reach and government arrogance. You bring your canoe and try paddling down our western creeks and let me know how that works out for ya? The difference between where you live and Wyoming is drastically different. But apparently the EPA and you cannot see that! Private property rights are under attack by our own government. If you would rather keep your head in the sand, feel free to do it. This is America after all and you have the freedom to do whatever makes you happy. Unless that happens to be putting in a stock pond.

And 9 acres may not be a ranch to you or me. But to one family in Wyoming, its their 9 acres. I never said this guy was a rancher. I said he is a landowner who put in a stock pond. The fact that you can also skip a rock across it or let the kids play with a boat can be said of stock ponds everywhere. I still feel you are wrong, but me arguing with you, aint going to change your mind. You enjoy your evening and good luck to you in your welding business and cattle/farming operations. We may disagree, but we share a passion and love for agriculture. I guess that makes us part of a family, maybe dysfunctional at times, but family nonetheless. :) I agree with you about 1 thing on this subject, water and emotions go hand in hand. If I was outa line with my comments I am sorry. Sometimes I oughta not type.
 

Mike

Well-known member
The way I see it, the State gave him permission to build the pond and that should have been the end. This was all about intrusion from the Federal Gov't. If he wants to cover his 9 acres with 8.5 acres of water, he should have that right.......................as long as it doesn't create a hazard or hardship on his neighbors up or downstream.

Like was said, the pond won't cause a problem unless he backs up water on the upstream side of his neighbors property and when the pond is filled, it will flow downstream just as well as it has all along.
 

George

Well-known member
The Indiana law says if you have a stream that is "navigable" at least 9 months of the year you must obtain permission to stop or delay the water flow. If the stream is smaller you may dam it but is times of drought you must release as much water down stream as what is coming in.

But that does not mean the feds won't come in and change everything.
 

Denny

Well-known member
leanin' H said:
Denny if you cant side with a landowner who built a stockpond on a stream and would rather side with the federal government and the over reach and stupidity that comes with agencies like the EPA then you and I will have to disagree by a mile on this one! I am very grateful "Guys like me" have your permission to grab our pathetic little lunch boxes and go to our meaningless jobs where we have absolutely no stress! I ran my own electrical contracting business for almost 10 years and I know all about the stress that comes with having your own business. But I find plenty of stress about every day at my job or otherwise. I have nothing but praise for folks like you who have small businesses and create jobs and products for people. Your comment on "western pioneers" is curious or maybe you are really trying to fan the flames? My family came west in the mid 1800's to build a ranch and escape religious persecution. They sure didn't come out here for the water or grass or the free-for-all, no rules BS you speak of! Your mind set is what keeps politicians employed back in DC. The idea that someone hundreds or thousands of miles away has a better perspective than local folks is hilarious. If one horse or a back yard beef drinks out of that pond, then its a stock pond. This isn't some Minnesota river that's 100 yards wide. This is a 2 foot wide 18 inch deep creek running over and through 9 acres that an American citizen owns! So he damned up a pond? The water comes in and flows out. Waterfowl and other critters can use it. But the EPA has to keep their thumbs on everyone. THIS IS ABOUT CONTROL, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! Its about over reach and government arrogance. You bring your canoe and try paddling down our western creeks and let me know how that works out for ya? The difference between where you live and Wyoming is drastically different. But apparently the EPA and you cannot see that! Private property rights are under attack by our own government. If you would rather keep your head in the sand, feel free to do it. This is America after all and you have the freedom to do whatever makes you happy. Unless that happens to be putting in a stock pond.

And 9 acres may not be a ranch to you or me. But to one family in Wyoming, its their 9 acres. I never said this guy was a rancher. I said he is a landowner who put in a stock pond. The fact that you can also skip a rock across it or let the kids play with a boat can be said of stock ponds everywhere. I still feel you are wrong, but me arguing with you, aint going to change your mind. You enjoy your evening and good luck to you in your welding business and cattle/farming operations. We may disagree, but we share a passion and love for agriculture. I guess that makes us part of a family, maybe dysfunctional at times, but family nonetheless. :) I agree with you about 1 thing on this subject, water and emotions go hand in hand. If I was outa line with my comments I am sorry. Sometimes I oughta not type.

Your not out of line just we have different opinions and maybe it's regional. I just know here in the land of to much water where you don't want it there is no way I would divert a creek to make a pond the neighbors would call the county and it isn't worth it I guess I pick my battles. Here cutting willows is considered drainage.
 

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