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The fence,good idea,or bad idea?

INSTALLING FENCES ON OUR BORDERS

  • GOOD IDEA

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • BAD IDEA

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Hundreds of miles of new fences along the U.S.-Mexico border would be funded under a bill passed on Friday in the U.S. House of Representatives as part of an election-year clamp-down on illegal immigration.

About $1.2 billion would be spent during the fiscal year starting October 1 for southwest border fencing and other barriers. The money is part of a $34.8 billion bill for domestic security programs that are being beefed up following the September 11 attacks.

Under the bill, passed on a 412-6 vote, the beleaguered Federal Emergency Management Agency, which was roundly criticized for its slow, uncoordinated response to Hurricane Katrina last year, also would be overhauled.


The Senate was expected to pass the bill quickly, clearing it for President George W. Bush to sign into law.

The money "will accelerate the (Homeland Security) department's goal of obtaining operational control of these borders in less than five years," said Rep. Harold Rogers, a Kentucky Republican who pushed the bill through the House.

An estimated 12 million illegal immigrants live in the United States, many of whom entered through the porous southwestern border with Mexico. Republicans, hoping to hang on to their control of Congress in fall elections, have been pushing border security in reaction to voter anger.

But the huge spending bill gives the government up to an additional 17 months -- until June 1, 2009 -- to fully implement a border check plan that has angered Americans living in northern states and Canadians.

The program requires everyone entering the United States to show a passport or other high-tech ID at land border crossings, airports and seaports. Now, Canadians and Americans going back and forth over the 5,500 mile shared border can show other documents that security experts say are easily forged.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think it's just another case of government spending our money to try to make it look like they're doing something. The Mexican people that want to come here are able to overcome a lot of obstacles. A fence will just be one more. It will make the coyotes look for other methods and will give them an excuse go up on their 'fees'.

The last time the Border Patrol got tough, the coyotes started using fake documents and just put them on buses right up the interstates. They are surprisingly quick to adapt to anything we do. That's why effective border enforcement must involve several different cohesive methods. And if there's one thing the federal government has demonstrated that it does poorly, cohesion is it.

We've got to do something about the border. We can't continue to let people come in like they do. But most of the Mexican immigrants actually do come here for the opportunity to work...not for welfare. It's my belief that some of them only become sorry after they get here and see how easy it is to be a bum.

The Mexican worker is most likely to be ruined by the same liberal Democratic policies that has ruined other ethnic groups. Once they see how easy it is not to work, it doesn't take them long to assimilate ino our 'great society'.

I'm not really sure that we have the ability or the resolve to stop the illegal immigration completely. Most of us don't really realize what it is that we're fighting. I know there was a time that I didn't comprehend it, either...

I had a Mexican guy working for me several years ago. He has passed the citizenship tests (most of us probably couldn't pass) and is a US citizen, but his family remains in Mexico. I'll never forget a letter that he got from his mother one day. He read parts of it to me and it has left a lasting impression on me. I'll never forget it. I'm paraphrasing somewhat, but this is basically what it said:

"Your brother will soon have to try again. He has been caught and sent back 3 times. As soon as he rests and gets strong enough, he promises us he will make it this time. He doesn't want to leave, but there is no work and this farm can't support us because of so many dry years. The children cry all night from the hunger. Their arms are much skinny. The United States promises a chance to work. He has no other choice but to try. If he's really lucky, he hopes to get 2 jobs and work all 7 days in a week..."

If he's really lucky...

I'm not condoning illegal immigration, but we're fighting something here that none of us have really ever experienced. Real hunger. Even if we can stop the Mexican immigrants that come here for welfare or criminal activity, I'm not so sure that we can stop those that are really, really hungry. I know that if my family were starving, the only way to stop me would be to kill me.

Now, after writing all of that liberal sounding crap...

I have to wonder how much more fence we could get for the money and how much faster it could be done if we used some of that wetback labor to build it? :lol:
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Is there a better way to secure our borders than a fence ? After 9-11 the country is serious about border controll, I am sympathetic to a man that has a starving family,no doubt I would cross the border for a better way of life for my family,or die trying,but how do you sort the nationals that want to work from the terrorists that are no doubt planning on entry ? We need to do what ever it takes to secure our borders ,then work on imigration reform,the fence and the new pass port laws are a step in the right direction .................good luck
 

jigs

Well-known member
fence landmines, tanks, troops, more landmines, rattle snakes, and more troops.


then if any illegals get through, wait at Taco Johns and arrest them
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
jigs said:
fence landmines, tanks, troops, more landmines, rattle snakes, and more troops.


then if any illegals get through, wait at Taco Johns and arrest them
I got to agree with you jiggs. I do think however after we seal or boarders (if we can) that our country would be much more open to temporary work visas or something similiar to offer a better life to those who are willing to work. What we also need is a mechanism to get rid of the sorry ones here currently (white, hispanic ?? what ever) that won't work.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
HAY MAKER said:
Is there a better way to secure our borders than a fence ? After 9-11 the country is serious about border controll, I am sympathetic to a man that has a starving family,no doubt I would cross the border for a better way of life for my family,or die trying,but how do you sort the nationals that want to work from the terrorists that are no doubt planning on entry ? We need to do what ever it takes to secure our borders ,then work on imigration reform,the fence and the new pass port laws are a step in the right direction .................good luck

I'm not sure if a fence is the best way, or if deploying more National Guard on the border would be better. (Of course, now all the pacifist liberals will whine and say that President Bush has the military stretched too thin to secure the borders, whine, whine, whine.)

The right kind of fence would work, but most of us here realize that a determined individual of any species is going through a fence if they want to.

I didn't vote against it in the poll, but I'm just not sure that it's the best answer. I'd like to hear from the 4 who voted against it in this poll, though. Do they have any valid reasons to object, or are they simply liberals acting like liberals?

You're correct that we need to use the other methods that you mention in addition to any fence or military means of stopping the flow. It just concerns me that this particular fence legislation is a poorly planned attempt to throw money at something to impress voters. Hell, they didn't even provide funding for all of the fence that they approved. Here's some excerpts from a Washington Post article:

"Fortifying those requirements, Congress approved $1.2 billion in a separate homeland security spending bill to bankroll the fence. That figure, however, is only a down payment and falls far short of the $6 billion the fence is expected to cost. Lawmakers from both parties conceded that even at 700 miles in length, the barrier would leave nearly 1,300 miles of border uncovered."

" 'This is not Iowa farmland,' said Rep. Raul M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.). Construction is 'going to be near impossible.' A vast stretch of the Arizona fence would traverse the lands of the Tohono O'odham Nation, which strongly opposes it and could bring suit, said Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.).

"Construction crews would have to deal with rivers and streams running north to south and wildlife migration routes that do not respect the U.S.-Mexico divide. And the Border Patrol does not have enough agents to stop smugglers from simply knocking holes in remote stretches. "It's not feasible," said Kolbe, who is retiring from Congress at the end of the year. "It's a statement for the election. That's all."


This mention of waterways and wildlife should have warned everybody of what is imminent. Our own government policies of environmental whackoism will stall construction in so many areas that there's no way the project will ever be completed on time and within budget. There's no telling how much time and money will be spent on court challenges.

I've got some places that I need to cross-fence. I'd like to add to my traps and my pens. I want to be sure my fences will work and that I can get the money to complete them as planned, though. I can't just throw money at the idea and start driving a few posts here and there without a plan for tying it all together. Or without some idea of how I'm going to pay for the whole project. Or without even being sure it will work when I'm through. Well, I guess I could do that, but it would seem pretty stupid.

I'm just afraid that there is not enough planning here. Most of us spend more time designing a set of traps and catch pens than has been spent on this effort. I guess I can go to the coffee shop and tell everybody I'm doing it, though. Tell them how big my traps are going to be and how slick my pens will work. That'll make me look better, right? That's what this legislation is about in it's current form.
 

Ben H

Well-known member
I'd even be satisfied if landmines had a warning sign in Espanol. How about on those open areas with internet cameras they also have claymores that can be set off from a button on the website.
 

Southdakotahunter

Well-known member
I think the fence is a good idea. Gotta do something. Anyway, alot of the reasoning for the fence down south is because of terrorism. Some fear terrorists will cross the border, maybe even bring with them some chemical/biological or nukes of sometype. What keeps them from bringing them across the border of Canada? How come we are not trying to fence that off? The next one could come across the Canadian border into Alaska? If you fence one, you should fence them all to make it safer. IT only makes sense. If i was a terrorist, i would want to cross at the point the least expected, and that would be up our northern borders.
 

jigs

Well-known member
the fence needs to only be one strand of barbed wire...with a sign every 20 foot saying in spanish, "cross at your own risk, we aim to kill, USMC"

then 50 yards behind the fence at staggered intervals we place a machine gun nest........

these people will learn that we re determined to stop the flow if they are crawling ove dead people to get here.

we need to stop caring more about other people than our own.

the world sees us as pansies with no backbone. lets show them we got balls and do things right!
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
This is such a difficult topic.

Where I live, mexican immigrants, legal or illegal, are not really a problem. Matter of fact, I sure would like to get some cheap help when it comes to hoing weeds in the tree patch and dealing with my burdock and canadian thistle problem. :lol:

But I can understand those who deal with the clash of cultures, where they are a problem.

On the face of it, I'd say, open the borderds even more, but keep track of all who come and have a system to get rid of the ones coming in (also the ones already here, of any nationality, race or creed) who are non-productive and are a burden to our socitey and have no hope of ever becoming a good citizern, and get rid of them, with little fuss or muss. I ain't sure where we'd send them, but maybe someplace nice like say.......France! :shock: :lol:

How about Canada? They seem to be pretty liberal minded and have all them good jobs for them in the oil patch? :wink:

But I think, if they want in, we will never stop them all and lets emmbrace the good ones and get rid of the bad ones. Just like we do with our herds of cattle, horses and sheep. Face it, the human race as a whole, could stand a lot of culling! And America might be a good place to start. :???:
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Southdakotahunter said:
I think the fence is a good idea. Gotta do something. Anyway, alot of the reasoning for the fence down south is because of terrorism. Some fear terrorists will cross the border, maybe even bring with them some chemical/biological or nukes of sometype. What keeps them from bringing them across the border of Canada? How come we are not trying to fence that off? The next one could come across the Canadian border into Alaska? If you fence one, you should fence them all to make it safer. IT only makes sense. If i was a terrorist, i would want to cross at the point the least expected, and that would be up our northern borders.


My God, I can't believe you guys are serious.

What about the ones that fly in on American Airlines and land at New York City or O'Hara or whatever other airport they choose?

The easiest point of entry would be to just fly in from Heathrow, take flying lessons in Florida and then go fly a jet into a tall building.
 

greg

Well-known member
how bout a fence around your schools.keep some of them crazy's out.tell the truth,like fence idea,keep the mexicans and American terrorists outta Canada
 

jigs

Well-known member
Ben H said:
jigs said:
...the world sees us as pansies with no backbone. lets show them we got balls and do things right!

Political correctness has castarated this country.

and BOTH political parties were holding the knife as the nuts were cut off!
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Southdakotahunter said:
I think the fence is a good idea. Gotta do something. Anyway, alot of the reasoning for the fence down south is because of terrorism. Some fear terrorists will cross the border, maybe even bring with them some chemical/biological or nukes of sometype. What keeps them from bringing them across the border of Canada? How come we are not trying to fence that off? The next one could come across the Canadian border into Alaska? If you fence one, you should fence them all to make it safer. IT only makes sense. If i was a terrorist, i would want to cross at the point the least expected, and that would be up our northern borders.


My God, I can't believe you guys are serious.

What about the ones that fly in on American Airlines and land at New York City or O'Hara or whatever other airport they choose?

The easiest point of entry would be to just fly in from Heathrow, take flying lessons in Florida and then go fly a jet into a tall building.

mla,that's yesterdays news,there wont be any terrorist;s taking flying lessons in the good ole *USA* again,the fence is necessary,the mexican nationals are providing cover for the terrorists by their sheer numbers,just a matter of time,what happens first,terrorists realize how easy it is to get into the country along our southern border or the fence is complete.............good luck
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
nonothing,dont you think you are dramatizing a little,no wonder you feel bullied........dont make no sense.............good luck
 

Ben H

Well-known member
Anyone here of the Mexican Zetas? They are a Mexican Special Forces united that was trained by the USA, their purpose was for counter-drug. Well naturally drug cartells have more money then the Mexican Army so they now work for the Cartels to make sure their product makes it across the border. Be it drugs or people. The Cartels have also put a bounty on the heads of any border patrol agents and minutemen, last time I heard it was $10,000.
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Are we trying to fence Canadians in? Or trying to fence Americans in? Or possibly we are trying to fence Canadians out? I guess I didn't realize there was that big of problem with the American/Canadian border.
 

cowsense

Well-known member
Why not go one better than border fences..........dissallow all international flights.......create a naval exclusion area....sink every boat that tries to dock...........load up every foreigner that isn't native to the US and send them ALL HOME! That should make everyone happy including the terrorists because they will have achieved their goals.......instilling fear and mistrust while destroying the economy of their great enemy! :???:

GET REAL........Fences are nothing more than political grandstanding and will have virtually no effect on a serious, well financed terrorist attack! Think about it, many of the European attacks have been made by native born citizens (some of whom weren't even of Muslim birth)!!
 
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