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The incompetence of the Bush Bunch

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Disagreeable

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never fails to amaze me. Paul Bremer says, among other things, we didn't expect an insurgency! Excerpts, link below; my emphasis.

"Just days after he got the job, Bremer says he saw an alarming report from a think tank, concluding it would take three times more US troops to stabilize Iraq than had actually been sent.
He says he tried to get the attention of his direct boss—Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Williams: You’ll need a half million soldiers. It’s a piece of paper you sent to Secretary Rumsfeld. How did he react to that?
Bremer: So I sent a summary of it around to Rumsfeld and just said, “I thought you should take a look at this.” I never had any reaction from him.
Though Bremer says he never heard back from his direct boss, he says he then discussed his concerns with the president. According to Bremer, President Bush said he would try to get more troops from other countries, but made no mention of increasing the number of American forces
."

Other quotes:

"Bremer: You know I’ve thought about that as I looked back a lot, because we really didn’t see the insurgency coming."

"But I suspect there was very little attention paid to what kind of an insurgency would come afterwards."

"Bremer: I said to the vice president, “You know i’m not sure that we really have a strategy for winning this war.” The vice president said to me, “Well, I have similar concerns.” He thought there was something to be said for the argument that we didn’t have a strategy for victory at that time.

It’s a surprising admission, considering what the Vice President was telling the public at the time."

"Bremer: Well, with the president, with Secretary Rumsfeld, with senior military leaders. There was a tendency by people in the Pentagon to exaggerate the capability of the Iraqi forces. And I felt that it was not likely that we would have professionally-trained Iraqi forces able to allow us to withdraw American troops in the spring of 2004."

"In the book, Bremer writes that he was so concerned, in May 2004, he sent a private message to Secretary Rumsfeld asking for more U.S. troops, but nothing happened.
He writes, “I verified that the Secretary received my message. I did not hear back from him.”

"Williams: The sad truth is, today, if you and I were to walk outside the Green Zone, do you have any doubt within minutes we would be captured or killed?
Bremer: Look, the security is not as good as it should be. That’s no secret. We’ve got young Americans dying over there still today. That is a painful price of war. That doesn’t make it wrong. It just makes it difficult."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10739597/
 

BBJ

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I didn't read through all your propaganda there but it looks to me like just more of the democrat talking points that get faxed to all libs so they will have something to say.

As far as needing more troops, half a million? are you insane we tore through there in record time. I probably wont last long here because I can see real quick that you and I won't jive very well and I plan on calling you on every post you make.

GET READY!
 

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BBJ said:
I can see real quick that you and I won't jive very well and I plan on calling you on every post you make.

GET READY!

:clap: :clap: :clap: Welcome!!
 

Disagreeable

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BBJ said:
I didn't read through all your propaganda there but it looks to me like just more of the democrat talking points that get faxed to all libs so they will have something to say.

As far as needing more troops, half a million? are you insane we tore through there in record time. I probably wont last long here because I can see real quick that you and I won't jive very well and I plan on calling you on every post you make.

GET READY!

Do you even know who Paul Bremer is?

I'm ready. It will be good to have someone "call" me on every post. I'll be waiting.
 

BBJ

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This may be off the subject of your very intelectual post but what is your position on President Bush lying about the weapons of mass destruction and the war in Iraq? Just want to get an idea of you and how you think.
 

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BBJ said:
This may be off the subject of your very intelectual post but what is your position on President Bush lying about the weapons of mass destruction and the war in Iraq? Just want to get an idea of you and how you think.

One thing at a time. You've assailed my post about Bremer as "democrat talking points." So answer the question: do you know who Paul Bremer is?

If you have the courage to answer that question, we can discuss your questions.

I'm read and waiting.
 

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I'm not a political Guru like yourself so forgive me if this is wrong but isn't he the Director of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for post-war Iraq. If not no skin off my nose, the fact still remains that we kicked butt at a phenominal rate and you don't like that.
 

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BBJ said:
I'm not a political Guru like yourself so forgive me if this is wrong but isn't he the Director of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance for post-war Iraq. If not no skin off my nose, the fact still remains that we kicked butt at a phenominal rate and you don't like that.

Paul Bremer was appointed by George W. Bush to run Iraq until a goverment was formed, yes. So tell me how you can refer to his comments, the man at ground zero in Iraq for the first months, as "democratic talking points"?

It looks like to me you're getting off to a bad start on this board. But we can continue.

When Bush chose to invade Iraq, we had the strongest military in the world. So, yeah, we "kicked butt". President Bush went on national TV and declared "mission accomplished." Three years later, we still have about 150,000 American troops in Iraq, our Federal deficit is the highest in my memory, experts tell us this war is going to cost up to $2Trillion, the Iraqi Defense Ministery recently warned the Iraqi people that Civil War is likely in the country. So tell me, exactly, what we've won in Iraq?
 

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You avoided MY question. Did our President Lie?

In response to your question about what we've won in Iraq.....
regaurdless of what it costs, in my opinion we are safer today than we were on and before 9/11. Do you think we and the Iraqi people are better off w/ Saddam out of power?
 

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Faster horses said:
BBJ, don't be intimidated.

As her posts show, Dis is only a 'self-proclaimed' political guru....

Not intimidated at all, I love shoving the truth down the throats of people like this. No matter what Dis says about the so called "facts" that he/she posts, it's like everything else go to the right place looking for what you want to see and you'll find it. Kind of like looking for a new breed of cattle, If you only go to the sites that support/push a breed then they will tell you that that certain breed is the all around one to own. Go to just democrat sites and only get info the dems want you to hear. I try and see both sides but it's just more often than not it all boils down to common sense. Something many people are lacking now days.
 

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BBJ said:
You avoided MY question. Did our President Lie?

Yes, I think Bush lied to the American people about Saddam. He used information for a German source called "Curveball", even though the Germans had told us he was unreliable. We know he lied about his NSA wiretapping. I've posted links showing he went around the country reassuring people that warrants were required before American citizens could be wiretapped, all the while listening in on our conversations without a warrant.

In response to your question about what we've won in Iraq.....
regaurdless of what it costs, in my opinion we are safer today than we were on and before 9/11. Do you think we and the Iraqi people are better off w/ Saddam out of power?

So what have we won? Are we safe today from terrorists?

No, I don't think the American people are necessarily better off w/Saddam out of power. He was isolated from the rest of the Arab world by UN sanctions. He had absolutely no nuclear program. Possibly two terrorist training camps were found by satellite imaging before the war in the "no fly" zone in the Kurdish region of the country. In case you don't remember, the no fly zone was protected from Saddam by American and British fighters. You'll have to ask the Iraqi people if they're better off. 25-30,000 Iraqi civilians, men, women, children dead. I wouldn't say those people or their families are better off. You know, of course, that more civilians have died every day since Bush invaded the country than died every day under Saddam? So who's the mass murderer here?
 

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Well judging by your last post I know now that you are a real life fruit loop and that no matter what anybody says to you, it won't be true unless it represents your views. For you to imply that our President a mass murder or worse than SAddam is totally out of line and your lucky. As far as the UN and its sanctions, give me a break anybody with three active brain cells can see that Saddam didn't give a rip what the UN said and as far I am concerned they are null and void. I wouldn't defend my words and opinions with the UN. That in itself shows me that you have no logical thinking pattern and my days of having meaningful discussions with you are over. (WACKO) Too bad it happened on my first day here.

And just for your reading pleasure although I know it won't do any good or that you'll even read it here are some of your political heros and their quotes on Iraq.
Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | Source

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 | Source

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 | Source

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998 | Source

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 | Source

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 | Source

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 | Source

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 | Source

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 | Source

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 | Source

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 | Source

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 | Source


If you will notice some of those quotes were before we had President Bush in office.
 

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BBJ said:
Well judging by your last post I know now that you are a real life fruit loop and that no matter what anybody says to you, it won't be true unless it represents your views. For you to imply that our President a mass murder or worse than SAddam is totally out of line and your lucky. As far as the UN and its sanctions, give me a break anybody with three active brain cells can see that Saddam didn't give a rip what the UN said and as far I am concerned they are null and void. I wouldn't defend my words and opinions with the UN. That in itself shows me that you have no logical thinking pattern and my days of having meaningful discussions with you are over. (WACKO) Too bad it happened on my first day here.

ROTFLMAO! I see: if I can't see it your way, I'm a fruit loop. If I don't believe in the Bush Agenda, I'm a nut. Works both ways. What is a mass murderer? It's a fact that more Iraqis have died since Bush chose to invade their country. I didn't defend the UN. My stance is that the US is not the policeman of the world. Bush used the fact that Saddam ignored UN resolutions as part of his excuse to invade Iraq! Since when is it our responsibility alone to enforce UN resolutions?

And just for your reading pleasure although I know it won't do any good or that you'll even read it here are some of your political heros and their quotes on Iraq.

If you will notice some of those quotes were before we had President Bush in office.

Yawn. You're a late arrival on the scene and not likely to stay around, so I'll not spend too much time on these quotes. (I've deleted them for space considerations). All these quotes reflected the beliefs of these people. That doesn't make them right. It's the Commander In Chief's responsibility to the American soldier to be sure before he sends them into battle. Bush cherry picked intelligence that supported his desire for war with Saddam. Not a single person in your quoted list had the authority to send our troops off to war. Bush has failed our American troops by sending them off on an unncecessary war without enough troops, proper equipment, or a plan to win the peace. That's the truth and our Army, in particular, is paying for it by being unable to recruit the quality candidate they were able to get before Bush got us into this quagmire.

By the way, we're coming out of Iraq. You did know that, didn't you? Even though the terrorists are seemingly able to bomb Iraqis at will, even though the insurgents are regularly killing Americans, even though electrical generation is at lower levels than before we went into Iraq, even though oil production is down, even though the Iraqi Army and police are infiltrated with insurgents, we're coming out. Bush is going to declare victory and leave the field. That's ok with me. How do you feel about it?
 

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BBJ said:
Faster horses said:
BBJ, don't be intimidated.

As her posts show, Dis is only a 'self-proclaimed' political guru....

Not intimidated at all, I love shoving the truth down the throats of people like this.

Except you seem a bit short of "facts." But you've promised to take me on, so I'm expecting to see some any minute now.

No matter what Dis says about the so called "facts" that he/she posts, it's like everything else go to the right place looking for what you want to see and you'll find it.

Oh? Show me a "fact" from a mainstream source that says Saddam was a danger to the US because he had WMDs? Or that Bush was right when he declared the Iraqi war won?

Kind of like looking for a new breed of cattle, If you only go to the sites that support/push a breed then they will tell you that that certain breed is the all around one to own. Go to just democrat sites and only get info the dems want you to hear. I try and see both sides but it's just more often than not it all boils down to common sense. Something many people are lacking now days.

I'm not interested in Republican sites or Democratic sites. I'm interested in news reports from mainstream media and government reports. All of those things tell us there were no WMDs, the insurgency in Iraq continues to grow (even though VP Cheney told us months ago it was in its last throes), the Iraqi war is going to cost as much as $2trillion, thousands of American military men and women are physically and emotionally damaged and will need medical treatment for life, the Iraqi Shiites are becoming cozy with Iran, Iraq has become a terrorist training camp. And for what? You didn't answer the question:
Are we safe from terrorists?
 

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Faster horses said:
BBJ, don't be intimidated.

As her posts show, Dis is only a 'self-proclaimed' political guru....

I've never proclaimed myself anything. Apparently you're intimidated because you only have snide remarks to make instead of actually putting forward some thoughts.
 

BBJ

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You being a fruit loop or extremest has nothing to do with agreeing with our President it has to do with your response as a whole; the UN, not thinking the Iraqi people are better off with Saddam out of power etc.

How did you become informed about the Iraqi people and their situation? The evening news? Oh I know you grew up there, or lived there? I'm sorry but not matter what you say about wanting to get your information from mainstream media or most anywhere else, even govt. reports there is always a bias.


So yeah I did throw a name out there, I just call'em like I see 'em.
 

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BBJ said:
You being a fruit loop or extremest has nothing to do with agreeing with our President it has to do with your response as a whole; the UN, not thinking the Iraqi people are better off with Saddam out of power etc.

You're the one claiming the US should enforce UN resolutions, not me. Explain to me, please, your reasoning that 25,000 dead Iraqis and their families are better off now than when Saddam was in charge. I'll be waiting for that one.

How did you become informed about the Iraqi people and their situation? The evening news? Oh I know you grew up there, or lived there? I'm sorry but not matter what you say about wanting to get your information from mainstream media or most anywhere else, even govt. reports there is always a bias.

ROTFLMAO! I am so glad you've chosen to post over here. The Republicans run our government, yet the reports issued by government offices and officials are biased when they don't reflect your opinion! :lol:


So yeah I did throw a name out there, I just call'em like I see 'em.

Generally speaking when someone is out of facts, they tend to call names or use bad language. I see that you're at that point.
 

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The people still alive are better off because they are well on their way to living in a democracy. I am sorry for the innocent that were killed, but WAR AIN"T PRETTY! People die in war. That's what ou millitary is trained to do. KILL PEOPLE AND BREAK THINGS. No don't turn my words around to say that I called our millitary men and women killers, but when you go to war thats what happens.

Would you be happier if there were 25,000 dead Americans here on our soil? At least with Saddam gone girls can go to school. Right? I'm sure many mnay things have changed for the better over there. You are just to busy watching the liberal biased media and taking it as truth. I work with a Marine that is about 24-25 years old, married, just had a little girl, has been to Iraq once and just volunteered to go back in June. He told me first hand it's not like what they are reporting here in the states. I have another close friend that was there when we took Baghdad. He too is married, with two little girls and just had a baby boy about 8 months ago, he is back there now and again it's not as bad as YOU think. He was ready to go back because he said what we are doing over there is right and You and I don't have an idea about those people and their situation.

Now on the bias, DON"T try and put words in my mouth. I never said they are only biased in a democrat situation. I said there will always be a bias. Democrat, Republican, Black White green red. I can be intellectually honest, unlike some.
 

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BBJ said:
The people still alive are better off because they are well on their way to living in a democracy. I am sorry for the innocent that were killed, but WAR AIN"T PRETTY! People die in war. That's what ou millitary is trained to do. KILL PEOPLE AND BREAK THINGS. No don't turn my words around to say that I called our millitary men and women killers, but when you go to war thats what happens.

That's your opinion. And your opinion is not worth any more than mine. I seriously doubt the family of the 18 Iraqis, including two children under ten years old, killed in a US air strike recently would agree with you. They never asked the US to invade their country. Yet their families are dead. Yes, our military is in the killing business. I'm not anti-war, I'm anti this war. That's no excuse. There was no reason for this war. I'm still waiting for you to give me a reason for the thousands dead and billions of dollars spent. Your belief that we're safe from terrorists now is stupid. Even George W. Bush says we're not safe.

Would you be happier if there were 25,000 dead Americans here on our soil? At least with Saddam gone girls can go to school. Right? I'm sure many mnay things have changed for the better over there. You are just to busy watching the liberal biased media and taking it as truth. I work with a Marine that is about 24-25 years old, married, just had a little girl, has been to Iraq once and just volunteered to go back in June. He told me first hand it's not like what they are reporting here in the states. I have another close friend that was there when we took Baghdad. He too is married, with two little girls and just had a baby boy about 8 months ago, he is back there now and again it's not as bad as YOU think. He was ready to go back because he said what we are doing over there is right and You and I don't have an idea about those people and their situation.

I'd be happier if the 2200 Americans who have died in Iraq for Bush's personal agenda were still alive. You have a report from one or two Marines. That's great. Here's a shock for you: his opinion is his own. That doesn't mean he's right. There are blogs all over the 'net from former Marines and soldiers who disagree with him. There used to be some bloggers actually in Iraq, but the military has pretty much shut down the negative comments on military sites.

Now on the bias, DON"T try and put words in my mouth. I never said they are only biased in a democrat situation. I said there will always be a bias. Democrat, Republican, Black White green red. I can be intellectually honest, unlike some.

I don't agree there's always bias. General Taguba's report on prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib was well done and complete. The Army has refused to follow up on, though. I have faith in some parts of our government. I even think Congress is going to get straightened out as the election starts heating up. Too many of those guys want to be re-elected and know this war is getting more and more unpopular. :)
 

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