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The Jihad

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
This is interesting. It appears to sum up what we are faced with.

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in Canada and the United States, especially in the minority race.

Allah or Jesus? By: Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your
faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven."

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US and Canada should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
And again Ms ding dong gives us a fanciful story, scaring us all to death :roll: , about how the big bad Muslims are going to destroy us all.....without a link. Get a life.
 

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
dis: And again Ms ding dong gives us a fanciful story, scaring us all to death , about how the big bad Muslims are going to destroy us all.....without a link. Get a life.
What is fanciful about this story? Does the Koran not say what this Imam believes it says?

Please educate us, oh learned one. We await your pearls of wisdom with baited breath. Oh, and I have a life, a very satisfying life. You obviously have a rather pitiful existence. I’m truly sorry for you.

Here’s a link for you from a guy on this board who knows what he’s talking about. Ask Broke Cowboy if my post is hogwash.

http://www.ranchers.net/forum/about10662-0.html
Broke Cowboy: As I have had the opportunity to work with folks who are not from North America I made it a point to search out and try to understand why they think the way they do. I suspect some of this information may startle you.

I also have discovered that to know the enemy is to better understand them and the better to defeat them.

To start it off - Islam is commonly reported to translate into PEACE. My colleagues from Kuwait - Muslim fighter pilots - made sure that I knew this was not true. It translates into SUBMIT. A fact that is seldom if ever broadcast in North America. They used to joke with me - Submit or die.

I often wondered of they were really joking - but they needed my help at the time - so they were not about to lose my knowledge and abilities.

This is because any Imam or Sheik can impose Islamic law according to his desires - there is no universal rule of Islamic law - there is ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT and it can be very regional. A very different way to look at things..

First - Under Islam, rejecting Mohammed and Allah is itself a sin that Islamic government is told to punish:

Sura 3:31:

"Say: 'If you love God, follow me (Mohammed). God will love you and forgive you your sins. God is forgiving and merciful.'"

Sura 5:49:

"Pronounce judgment among them according to God's revelations (Koran) and do not be led by their desires. Take heed lest they turn you away from a part of that which God has revealed to you. If they reject your judgment, know that it is God's wish to scourge them for their sins. A great many of mankind are evil-doers."

Second - Rejecting Islam is itself a sin that can earn you death.

Sura 4:65

"But they will not - I swear by your Lord - they will not be true believers until they seek your arbitration in their disputes. Then they will not doubt the justice of your verdicts and will submit to you entirely."

Third - Good Muslims long for death, and take the Western aversion to death as a sign that we know we are sinners:

Sura 2:94-95

"Say: 'If God's Abode of the Hereafter is for yourselves alone, to the exclusion of all others, then wish for death if your claim be true!' But they will never wish for death, because of what they did; for God knows the evil-doers."

Fourth - CHRISTIANS ARE UNBELIEVERS

Sura 5:72

"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.'"

Fifth - MUSLIMS CANNOT TAKE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS AS FRIENDS

Sura 3:28

"Let not believers make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from God - except in self-defense. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to God shall all return."

Sixth - SLAYING UNBELIEVERS is specifically commanded, though they can also be made slaves and their property can be confiscated. Non-muslims have no legal rights in Muslim societies. If unbelievers are not killed, they can be made to pay "Jizya," a tax to buy back rights like owning property, working, or going to school.

Sura 2:191:

"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed. But do not fight them within the precincts of the Holy Mosque unless they attack you there; if they attack you put them to the sword. thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they mend their ways (become Muslims), know that God is forgiving and merciful."

To continue:

I will not even enter into the morality issues that are so abhorred by the average Muslim - because I will then be thought of as a religious fanatic, when in fact I am simply a person who studies their beliefs. Suffice to say the average North American who accepts homosexuality, drunkeness, drug using, common-law marriages and so on as a fact of modern day life would have no idea how this disgusts the average Muslim.

Yeah, I know it disgusts a lot of people here - but I do not think we are prepared to kill someone who does these things.

There is much more but it will simply bore most of you - so in closing this is a short summary - there may be American born and raised Muslims - or fresh converts - who will disagree. But that is simply because they are a product of the north American society. Most immigrant parents do not - I say again most - not all - do not think of themselves as citizens of this country. They believe that they are part of a religious world community. Citizenship is secondary.

I can even produce Koranic references for that should it become necessary.

They raise their children very differently from the way we raise our children. So the cycle does not change.

Koran is logical. It says:

1. Unbelievers are those who do not accept Islam, particularly Jews and Christians.

2. Because unbelievers do not accept Islam, Allah hates them and does not guide them.

3. Because Allah does not guide them, unbelievers become evil-doers - they commit additional sins besides rejecting Islam.

4. Muslims will see the sins of unbelievers plainly, both in non-Muslim society and in dealings with non-Muslims.

5. Therefore, Muslims must fight unbelievers both to limit sin and give unbelievers a chance to go to heaven by becoming Muslims.

Therefore no matter how well they are treated they will continue to make war on the unbeliever. It is written that it must be so - and so it will be.
Note this is very non-pc. It is also the belief of the vast majority of moderate Muslims in the world - for they will SUBMIT to Islam and the Imam who will make the laws..

It is incredibly rare for any Muslim to go against the commands of an Imam.

I recommend one to get a copy (the Koran) and actually read it. It is not blasphemy as a Christain to read up on other religions.

It also would be helpful to understand that the Mulim faith as a whole is still in the 14'th centurey. That allows the various regional religious leaders to maintain control over their people and promote their individual political agendas.

Anyone here who has done one or more tours of duty in the middle east will tell you that it is VERY different from what we are used to.

My non - pc thoughts are mine and mine alone. The quotes are direct from the Daewood translated Koran.
 

ranchwife

Well-known member
Disagreeable said:
And again Ms ding dong gives us a fanciful story, scaring us all to death :roll: , about how the big bad Muslims are going to destroy us all.....without a link. Get a life.

Well...well...well........now look who is "calling names".......very mature of you, Dis!!!! Like Passin thru says..."pathetic"!!!! :roll: :roll:
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Liberty Belle said:
What is fanciful about this story? Does the Koran not say what this Imam believes it says?

I don't know if the Koran says this or not. I do know the Bible is interpreted many different ways. I imagine the Koran is, too.

Please educate us, oh learned one. We await your pearls of wisdom with baited breath. Oh, and I have a life, a very satisfying life. You obviously have a rather pitiful existence. I’m truly sorry for you.

:lol: I know it's painful for you when I call BS on stuff like this. But I do my best anyway. :lol:

Here’s a link for you from a guy on this board who knows what he’s talking about. Ask Broke Cowboy if my post is hogwash.

And Brokecowboy is your reliable source? As I said, get a life. He's a poster on a discussion board, just like you. He choses to interpret the Koran however he wishes, someone else may interpret it differently, just like the Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, chose to interpret some of the Bible in different ways.
 

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
Painful? Maybe for you. It’s never comfortable having other folks see what an idiot you are and you really do “do your best” to illustrate your ignorance.

Now, I’m calling you out. If Broke Cowboy’s interpretation of the Koran is wrong, would you tell us what the Koran REALLY says? From the tone of your posts, you must be much more learned than folks like Broke Cowboy and R2. Just because they have actually had some experience in that part of the world is surely overshadowed by your vast knowledge of the Islamic religion and teachings.

Christian denominations may disagree on minor doctrinal issues, but they agree on what the basic tenants are. They may argue semantics, but none of them will tell you that the Ten Commandments say anything other than what the God intended when He gave them to His people.

Now let’s hear from you. Put up or shut up.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Why don't you all go and read the Quran? I'm sure the local library has a copy.. If it doesn't, it should!

The Quran is sooooooooooo close to the Bible. In fact in some parts it's almost a duplicate, same stories, same people, etc.

And YES I've read the Bible and the Quran....and own a copy of both!!!

I use them as research/comparative sources.

Ck one out....read it....you'll find it all quiet interesting.

And yes, both books are open to individual interpertation by the reader and yes there are NUTS in both religions....in fact, there are nuts in all religions!!!
 

Econ101

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Why don't you all go and read the Quran? I'm sure the local library has a copy.. If it doesn't, it should!

The Quran is sooooooooooo close to the Bible. In fact in some parts it's almost a duplicate, same stories, same people, etc.

And YES I've read the Bible and the Quran....and own a copy of both!!!

I use them as research/comparative sources.

Ck one out....read it....you'll find it all quiet interesting.

And yes, both books are open to individual interpertation by the reader and yes there are NUTS in both religions....in fact, there are nuts in all religions!!!

I would have to agree with you on this one.

Even the major denominations have had their historical bouts with their version of Christianity. It was the source of the protestant movement under Martin Luther, the pilgrims coming to America, and the crusades into the Holy Land, and the inquisition.

Islam has its own.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Thanks Econ.....you may be the only here that doesn't " rip" me to shreds with my post!!

I'm #2 on the " list" right under Disagreeable!!! :lol:
 

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
Thanks Econ.....you may be the only here that doesn't " rip" me to shreds!!

I'm #2 on the " list" right under Disagreeable!!!
Sorry Kola, but you're not on my list, although the thought of being #2 right under dis really brings a smile to my face!!! :lol:

Why don't you just let old dis extract his/her/its own fat from the fire, so to speak? disagreeable makes a lot of accusations and baseless claims and I'd like to see some concrete information to back up those off-the-wall statements.

Maybe a link? :twisted:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Arabs must not be good at spelling-eh, reason they have two or three different spelling versions for each word :???: ex. Koran- Quran, Osama- Usama.......
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
reader (the Second) said:
Oldtimer said:
Arabs must not be good at spelling-eh, reason they have two or three different spelling versions for each word :???: ex. Koran- Quran, Osama- Usama.......

Uh, OT, the "mispellings" are Western transliterations of the Arabic letters/sounds ...

So, by your reasoning, it is us who are not good at spelling.

You would think after all this time someone would figure out "one" correct way to transliterate it- except if I remember right- I read that in many of those countries they have several different tribal dialects- some of which can't even understand each other...
 
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