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The Libs Georgrian threat

Sandhusker

Well-known member
The libs want to tell us that Georgia had it coming because of the threat that a "George Bush trained military" in their back yard poses them. Here's a little comparison on the forces of Georgia and Russia.

Russia has about 641,000 in its armed forces, 320,000 of whom are in the army. 26,000 are in the Georgian military, and about 17,000 of them are in the army.

Russia has about 7,000 tanks, 7,000 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers and thousands of pieces of artillery. Georgia has 80 aging T-72s and about 150 armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles and a similar number of artillery pieces.

In the air, Russia can bring 650 multirole or ground attack aircraft to the battle, as well as 500 attack helicopters. The sharp end of the Georgian air force consists of seven aging Su-25 ground attack fighters and seven attack helicopters.

Where is the threat, Frankie? Any of you other libs want to help her out? This is exactly the reasoning that we're going to get with the three headed idiot of Obama/Reid/Pelosi. Kind of makes Bush look like a genius.
 

VanC

Well-known member
As I said in another post, the US trained 3 battalions and a motorized company in NATO tactics. About 3000-3500 men were involved. As you've said the vast majority of Georgia's equipment is old outdated stuff left over from when they were part of the Soviet bloc. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd hardly put Georgia's military in the "trained and equipped by George W. Bush" category. :lol:
 

Texan

Well-known member
The libs defend Russia's right to go into Georgia, but at the same time they criticize their own country and hate their own President for going into Iraq. Who the hell can figure that out? :???:
 

hotdryplace

Active member
Much of the training of the Georgian, military was preparing them was for their mission in Iraq. You know the usual stuff like convoy escort, base security, drinking lots of water, entry control points, casuality evac, and (according to Old Timer, tripple f's,and nonothing) the fine art of torturing innocent thugs (with snarling dogs, cool air conditioner settings, stress positions, and most barbaric of all, panties on the head) and last but not least, how to murder innocent civilians by the hundreds of thousands.
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
hotdryplace said:
Much of the training of the Georgian, military was preparing them was for their mission in Iraq. You know the usual stuff like convoy escort, base security, drinking lots of water, entry control points, casuality evac, and (according to Old Timer, tripple f's,and nonothing) the fine art of torturing innocent thugs (with snarling dogs, cool air conditioner settings, stress positions, and most barbaric of all, panties on the head) and last but not least, how to murder innocent civilians by the hundreds of thousands.

:clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

fff

Well-known member
I know I'm wasting my time because you will simply ignore my response, Sandhusker. You just want to rant. You don't want to give and take.

But here's my answer:

Since Georgia knows how outnumbered and outgunned they are by Russian forces, why did they attack? Why did they kill Russian soldiers in South Osettia?

I would think the only way they would attack a much larger force is:

1. They felt like the larger force would be afraid to respond or

2. They thought someone (like the US) would come rescue them if/when they got their butts kicked.

So, waiting for your response here. :roll:
 

hopalong

Well-known member
What would you have them do fff? Lay down and play dead??
Opps yep that is what a liberal would do, let them rape burn pillage and not lift one finger to try and protect what little they had?
Better leave the thinking to people that have a real grasp on things around them other than use your flawed roll over and play dead scenero.

If they are being attacked, buildings being burned etc etc, why would they not feel threatened.
Why would anyone wait for outside help in a situation like that, if someone was attacking you in your house aould you wait for the police to come to your aid knowwing it could be hours or even days for them to arrive or would you try to protect yourself and your loved ones?
There Frankie I gave you a response,I eagerly await your rebuttal :roll: :roll:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
They didn't "attack" and they never left their borders, Frankie! Don't you realize that South Ossetia is in THEIR COUNTRY! They were rolling into THEIR OWN TERRITORY to calm down an uprising THAT WAS INSTIGATED BY THE RUSSIANS. It was a Russian setup! Is it lost on you that the Russians never said a word, that they just rolled in with an army that just happened to be waiting at the border?

Now, again, explain to me how the "George Bush trained" Georgia was threatening Russia? That was your reasoning.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
You know I actually assumed that frankie knew that South Osettia was Georgian territory,Therefor my post about what they should have done about the invasion.
Opppps she probabally did but like the lib she is would have prefered they toss down their weapons and say "HERE take what you want" :roll: :roll: :roll:

Frankie ff fff disagreeable the ball is in your court for rebuttal!
 

jigs

Well-known member
it is obvious that what is yours, is the neighbors....and not worth fighting for. according to the libs anyway
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A 21st Century Military for America
“Our country's greatest military asset is the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States. When we do send our men and women into harm's way, we must also clearly define the mission, prescribe concrete political and military objectives, seek out advice of our military commanders, evaluate the intelligence, plan accordingly, and ensure that our troops have the resources, support, and equipment they need to protect themselves and fulfill their mission.”

— Barack Obama, Chicago Foreign Affairs Council, April 23, 2007


=======================
The Problem
A 20th Century Structure for 21st Century Problems: We have inherited a national security structure that was developed and organized in the late 1940s to win the Cold War. It remains a rigid bureaucracy of government agencies, relying upon a restrictive and disconnected set of legal authorities.

New Leadership and Vision is Needed: America simply cannot afford more of the old approach to our national defense. Instead, it needs a Commander-in-Chief with the right combination of judgment, vision, and leadership for the 21st century.

A Military Under Strain: Currently, our soldiers, seamen, airmen and Marines are deployed around the globe, working valiantly to defend our nation. Yet, these heroes are under-resourced and asked to do too much by a policy that has too often taken their sacrifice for granted. Due to their incredible courage and ingenuity, they persevere, but at incredible cost to themselves and their families.

Recruitment and Retention Problems: A country of 300 million strong should not struggle to find enough qualified citizens to serve. Recruiting and retention problems have been swept under the rug by an administration that does not understand the value of service to our nation.

A System Not Serving our Troops as Well as They Serve Us: As the shameful events at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the recent reports on growing numbers of homeless and unemployed veterans show, we simply are not taking proper care of our wounded warriors and veterans.

================================

Barack Obama's Plan
Invest in a 21st Century Military
Rebuild the Military for 21st Century Tasks: As we rebuild our armed forces, we must not simply recreate the military of the Cold War era. Obama believes that we must build up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply; invest in foreign language training, cultural awareness, and human intelligence and other needed counterinsurgency and stabilization skill sets; and create a more robust capacity to train, equip, and advise foreign security forces, so that local allies are better prepared to confront mutual threats.

Expand to Meet Military Needs on the Ground: Barack Obama supports plans to increase the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers and the Marines by 27,000 troops. Increasing our end strength will help units retrain and re-equip properly between deployments and decrease the strain on military families.

Leadership from the Top: Barack Obama will restore the ethic of public service to the agenda of today's youth, whether it be serving their local communities in such roles as teachers or first responders, or serving in the military to keep our nation free and safe.

Lighten the Burdens on Our Brave Troops and Their Families: An Obama administration will create a Military Families Advisory Board to provide a conduit for military families' concerns to be brought to the attention of senior policymakers and the public. Obama will end the Bush administration's stop-loss policy and establish predictability in deployments so that active duty and reserves know what they can and must expect.

Build Defense Capabilities for the 21st Century
Fully Equip Our Troops for the Missions They Face: Barack Obama believes we must get vitally needed equipment to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines before lives are lost. We cannot repeat such failures as the delays in deployment of armored vehicles, body armor and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that save lives on the frontlines.

Review Weapons Programs: We must rebalance our capabilities to ensure that our forces have the agility and lethality to succeed in both conventional wars and in stabilization and counter-insurgency operations. Obama has committed to a review of each major defense program in light of current needs, gaps in the field, and likely future threat scenarios in the post-9/11 world.

Preserve Global Reach in the Air: We must preserve our unparalleled airpower capabilities to deter and defeat any conventional competitors, swiftly respond to crises across the globe, and support our ground forces. We need greater investment in advanced technology ranging from the revolutionary, like Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and electronic warfare capabilities, to essential systems like the C-17 cargo and KC-X air refueling aircraft, which provide the backbone of our ability to extend global power.

Maintain Power Projection at Sea: We must recapitalize our naval forces, replacing aging ships and modernizing existing platforms, while adapting them to the 21st century. Obama will add to the Maritime Pre-Positioning Force Squadrons to support operations ashore and invest in smaller, more capable ships, providing the agility to operate close to shore and the reach to rapidly deploy Marines to global crises.

National Missile Defense: An Obama administration will support missile defense, but ensure that it is developed in a way that is pragmatic and cost-effective; and, most importantly, does not divert resources from other national security priorities until we are positive the technology will protect the American public.

Ensure Freedom of Space: An Obama administration will restore American leadership on space issues, seeking a worldwide ban on weapons that interfere with military and commercial satellites. He will thoroughly assess possible threats to U.S. space assets and the best options, military and diplomatic, for countering them, establishing contingency plans to ensure that U.S. forces can maintain or duplicate access to information from space assets and accelerating programs to harden U.S. satellites against attack.

Protect the U.S in Cyberspace: An Obama administration will work in cooperation with our allies and the private sector to identify and protect against emerging cyber-threats.

Restore the Readiness of the National Guard and Reserves
Barack Obama will provide the National Guard with the equipment it needs for foreign and domestic emergencies and time to restore and refit before deploying. He will make the head of the National Guard a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to ensure concerns of our citizen soldiers reach the level they mandate. He will ensure that reservists and Guard members are treated fairly when it comes to employment, health, and education benefits.

Develop Whole of Government Initiatives to Promote Global Stability
Integrate Military and Civilian Efforts: An Obama administration will build up the capacity of each non-Pentagon agency to deploy personnel and area experts where they are needed, to help move soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines out of civilian roles.

Create a Civilian Assistance Corps (CAC): An Obama administration will set a goal of creating a national CAC of 25,000 personnel. This corps of civilian volunteers with special skill, sets (doctors, lawyers, engineers, city planners, agriculture specialists, police, etc.) would be organized to provide each federal agency with a pool of volunteer experts willing to deploy in times of need at home and abroad.

Restore Our Alliances
Engage Our Allies in Meeting Our Common Security Challenges: America's traditional alliances, such as NATO, must be transformed and strengthened, including on common security concerns like Afghanistan, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Obama will renew alliances and ensure our allies contribute their fair share to our mutual security.
Organize to Help Our Partners and Allies in Need: An Obama administration will expand humanitarian activities that build friends and allies at the regional and local level (such as during the response to the tsunami in South and Southeast Asia), and win hearts and minds in the process.

Reform Contracting
Create Transparency for Military Contractors: Barack Obama will require the Pentagon and State Department to develop a strategy for determining when contracting makes sense, rather than continually handing off governmental jobs to well-connected companies. An Obama administration will create the transparency and accountability needed for good governance. Finally, it will establish the legal status of contractor personnel, making possible prosecution of any abuses committed by private military contractors.

Restore Honesty, Openness, and Commonsense to Contracting and Procurement: An Obama administration will realize savings by reducing the corruption and cost overruns that have become all too routine in defense contracting. This includes launching a program of acquisition reform and management, which would end the common practice of no-bid contracting. He will end the abuse of supplemental budgets by creating a system of oversight for war funds as stringent as in the regular budget. He will restore the government's ability to manage contracts by rebuilding our contract officer corps. He will order the Justice Department to prioritize prosecutions that will punish and deter fraud, waste and abuse.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
jigs said:
it is obvious that what is yours, is the neighbors....and not worth fighting for. according to the libs anyway

And I guess the conservative way is.....Invade a country. lose thousands of miltary lifes,add Thousand more on to a life of long term disability ..
Then ask your countries tax payer's to pay to build up the very country that you just invaded? Then you tell your countries people that 40 year old mustard gas that could not even be transported due to its deteriorated condition,was a good reason for spending trillions and losing thousands of soldiers.....Well thats how its done according conservatives anyways.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
nonothing said:
jigs said:
it is obvious that what is yours, is the neighbors....and not worth fighting for. according to the libs anyway

And I guess the conservative way is.....Invade a country. lose thousands of miltary lifes,add Thousand more on to a life of long term disability ..
Then ask your countries tax payer's to pay to build up the very country that you just invaded? Then you tell your countries people that 40 year old mustard gas that could not even be transported due to its deteriorated condition,was a good reason for spending trillions and losing thousands of soldiers.....Well thats how its done according conservatives anyways.

If you remember, we had a country that was not following the terms that they agreed to. They were denying inspectors access, were not letting them interview who they wanted,etc... Iraq was acting very much like a country trying to hide something. It was a chance that couldn't be taken and we did the only thing we could of done by going in.

Also, if you remember, both liberals and conservatives voted to go in. (Even Hillary, who lied about it later.) Once the war started, the liberals learned that wars are costly and that people die. They wanted to cut and run and send the message to our enemies present and future that the US is just a paper tiger. The conservatives realize that the only way to end a war is to win it and that if we ever expect any country to respect our bark, we had better have some bite.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
nonothing said:
jigs said:
it is obvious that what is yours, is the neighbors....and not worth fighting for. according to the libs anyway

And I guess the conservative way is.....Invade a country. lose thousands of miltary lifes,add Thousand more on to a life of long term disability ..
Then ask your countries tax payer's to pay to build up the very country that you just invaded? Then you tell your countries people that 40 year old mustard gas that could not even be transported due to its deteriorated condition,was a good reason for spending trillions and losing thousands of soldiers.....Well thats how its done according conservatives anyways.

If you remember, we had a country that was not following the terms that they agreed to. They were denying inspectors access, were not letting them interview who they wanted,etc... Iraq was acting very much like a country trying to hide something. It was a chance that couldn't be taken and we did the only thing we could of done by going in.

Also, if you remember, both liberals and conservatives voted to go in. (Even Hillary, who lied about it later.) Once the war started, the liberals learned that wars are costly and that people die. They wanted to cut and run and send the message to our enemies present and future that the US is just a paper tiger. The conservatives realize that the only way to end a war is to win it and that if we ever expect any country to respect our bark, we had better have some bite.

Then why pay to build it back up?.....I do not understand you wwar mongers..you all about blowing the enemy up and killing as many as you can.....yet when is it considered a victory?.....When do your tax dollars stop building better infrastructure in Iraq then in the USA....When can the soldiers come home and not have to indure another stop loss because no one wants to go back..

As far as I am concerned All Bush showed the world was how to cripple his own country finacially while losing thousands of soldiers over a personal vendetta .....If this was about 911 then I would understand, As many other countries along side the USA chased bin ladin into afghanistan for attacking america....Yet for some reason your Leader throught trillions of dollars and unlimited number of soldiers were better served to invade Iraq rather then using all those avenues to hunt down bin ladin. .leaving the rest of those other countries chasing down Bin ladin,with limited USA fire power ..Why not throw all the money and millitary at the guy who committed the murders of 911?.Not some leader who those very same countries fighting along side the usa asked you not to invade..Even Britian has pulled out ....I guess that is just the conservatives way....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You missed this. This is why we invaded Iraq;
If you remember, we had a country that was not following the terms that they agreed to. They were denying inspectors access, were not letting them interview who they wanted,etc... Iraq was acting very much like a country trying to hide something. It was a chance that couldn't be taken and we did the only thing we could of done by going in.

You think that we should of just kept saying "Don't do that Saddam or we'll....." and then never follow through? You can't do that with children! We weren't "war mongers", we were honoring our word and following through on our threats. Those that weren't with us were a bunch of pacifist fools who didn't learn a dang thing from WWII.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
You missed this. This is why we invaded Iraq;
If you remember, we had a country that was not following the terms that they agreed to. They were denying inspectors access, were not letting them interview who they wanted,etc... Iraq was acting very much like a country trying to hide something. It was a chance that couldn't be taken and we did the only thing we could of done by going in.

You think that we should of just kept saying "Don't do that Saddam or we'll....." and then never follow through? You can't do that with children! We weren't "war mongers", we were honoring our word and following through on our threats. Those that weren't with us were a bunch of pacifist fools who didn't learn a dang thing from WWII.

Sand husker I dissagree with many of the things you write in this thread,You as Aplus says are drinking the cool aid on this one...

I wonder why things like stop loss was needed..Why bin ladin is still un accounted for...Why USA tax dollars are being spent to rebuild a country That bush destroyed.If your taking out a country. you do not rebuild it .so it can fight again,...Why over three thousand troops dead is not enough to bring the rest home....Why does it take 7 years for a supposed super power to invade a country and still be there..What was gained by invading Iraq.,,,It never showed the world anything,in fact,Iran feels even stronger now...The hate Against the west is now stronger,and the enemy is now larger then ever before....Who do we thank for that?
 

Cal

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
A 21st Century Military for America
“Our country's greatest military asset is the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States. When we do send our men and women into harm's way, we must also clearly define the mission, prescribe concrete political and military objectives, seek out advice of our military commanders, evaluate the intelligence, plan accordingly, and ensure that our troops have the resources, support, and equipment they need to protect themselves and fulfill their mission.”

— Barack Obama, Chicago Foreign Affairs Council, April 23, 2007


=======================
The Problem
A 20th Century Structure for 21st Century Problems: We have inherited a national security structure that was developed and organized in the late 1940s to win the Cold War. It remains a rigid bureaucracy of government agencies, relying upon a restrictive and disconnected set of legal authorities.

New Leadership and Vision is Needed: America simply cannot afford more of the old approach to our national defense. Instead, it needs a Commander-in-Chief with the right combination of judgment, vision, and leadership for the 21st century.

A Military Under Strain: Currently, our soldiers, seamen, airmen and Marines are deployed around the globe, working valiantly to defend our nation. Yet, these heroes are under-resourced and asked to do too much by a policy that has too often taken their sacrifice for granted. Due to their incredible courage and ingenuity, they persevere, but at incredible cost to themselves and their families.

Recruitment and Retention Problems: A country of 300 million strong should not struggle to find enough qualified citizens to serve. Recruiting and retention problems have been swept under the rug by an administration that does not understand the value of service to our nation.

A System Not Serving our Troops as Well as They Serve Us: As the shameful events at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and the recent reports on growing numbers of homeless and unemployed veterans show, we simply are not taking proper care of our wounded warriors and veterans.

================================

Barack Obama's Plan
Invest in a 21st Century Military
Rebuild the Military for 21st Century Tasks: As we rebuild our armed forces, we must not simply recreate the military of the Cold War era. Obama believes that we must build up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply; invest in foreign language training, cultural awareness, and human intelligence and other needed counterinsurgency and stabilization skill sets; and create a more robust capacity to train, equip, and advise foreign security forces, so that local allies are better prepared to confront mutual threats.

Expand to Meet Military Needs on the Ground: Barack Obama supports plans to increase the size of the Army by 65,000 soldiers and the Marines by 27,000 troops. Increasing our end strength will help units retrain and re-equip properly between deployments and decrease the strain on military families.

Leadership from the Top: Barack Obama will restore the ethic of public service to the agenda of today's youth, whether it be serving their local communities in such roles as teachers or first responders, or serving in the military to keep our nation free and safe.

Lighten the Burdens on Our Brave Troops and Their Families: An Obama administration will create a Military Families Advisory Board to provide a conduit for military families' concerns to be brought to the attention of senior policymakers and the public. Obama will end the Bush administration's stop-loss policy and establish predictability in deployments so that active duty and reserves know what they can and must expect.

Build Defense Capabilities for the 21st Century
Fully Equip Our Troops for the Missions They Face: Barack Obama believes we must get vitally needed equipment to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines before lives are lost. We cannot repeat such failures as the delays in deployment of armored vehicles, body armor and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that save lives on the frontlines.

Review Weapons Programs: We must rebalance our capabilities to ensure that our forces have the agility and lethality to succeed in both conventional wars and in stabilization and counter-insurgency operations. Obama has committed to a review of each major defense program in light of current needs, gaps in the field, and likely future threat scenarios in the post-9/11 world.

Preserve Global Reach in the Air: We must preserve our unparalleled airpower capabilities to deter and defeat any conventional competitors, swiftly respond to crises across the globe, and support our ground forces. We need greater investment in advanced technology ranging from the revolutionary, like Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and electronic warfare capabilities, to essential systems like the C-17 cargo and KC-X air refueling aircraft, which provide the backbone of our ability to extend global power.

Maintain Power Projection at Sea: We must recapitalize our naval forces, replacing aging ships and modernizing existing platforms, while adapting them to the 21st century. Obama will add to the Maritime Pre-Positioning Force Squadrons to support operations ashore and invest in smaller, more capable ships, providing the agility to operate close to shore and the reach to rapidly deploy Marines to global crises.

National Missile Defense: An Obama administration will support missile defense, but ensure that it is developed in a way that is pragmatic and cost-effective; and, most importantly, does not divert resources from other national security priorities until we are positive the technology will protect the American public.

Ensure Freedom of Space: An Obama administration will restore American leadership on space issues, seeking a worldwide ban on weapons that interfere with military and commercial satellites. He will thoroughly assess possible threats to U.S. space assets and the best options, military and diplomatic, for countering them, establishing contingency plans to ensure that U.S. forces can maintain or duplicate access to information from space assets and accelerating programs to harden U.S. satellites against attack.

Protect the U.S in Cyberspace: An Obama administration will work in cooperation with our allies and the private sector to identify and protect against emerging cyber-threats.

Restore the Readiness of the National Guard and Reserves
Barack Obama will provide the National Guard with the equipment it needs for foreign and domestic emergencies and time to restore and refit before deploying. He will make the head of the National Guard a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to ensure concerns of our citizen soldiers reach the level they mandate. He will ensure that reservists and Guard members are treated fairly when it comes to employment, health, and education benefits.

Develop Whole of Government Initiatives to Promote Global Stability
Integrate Military and Civilian Efforts: An Obama administration will build up the capacity of each non-Pentagon agency to deploy personnel and area experts where they are needed, to help move soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines out of civilian roles.

Create a Civilian Assistance Corps (CAC): An Obama administration will set a goal of creating a national CAC of 25,000 personnel. This corps of civilian volunteers with special skill, sets (doctors, lawyers, engineers, city planners, agriculture specialists, police, etc.) would be organized to provide each federal agency with a pool of volunteer experts willing to deploy in times of need at home and abroad.

Restore Our Alliances
Engage Our Allies in Meeting Our Common Security Challenges: America's traditional alliances, such as NATO, must be transformed and strengthened, including on common security concerns like Afghanistan, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Obama will renew alliances and ensure our allies contribute their fair share to our mutual security.
Organize to Help Our Partners and Allies in Need: An Obama administration will expand humanitarian activities that build friends and allies at the regional and local level (such as during the response to the tsunami in South and Southeast Asia), and win hearts and minds in the process.

Reform Contracting
Create Transparency for Military Contractors: Barack Obama will require the Pentagon and State Department to develop a strategy for determining when contracting makes sense, rather than continually handing off governmental jobs to well-connected companies. An Obama administration will create the transparency and accountability needed for good governance. Finally, it will establish the legal status of contractor personnel, making possible prosecution of any abuses committed by private military contractors.

Restore Honesty, Openness, and Commonsense to Contracting and Procurement: An Obama administration will realize savings by reducing the corruption and cost overruns that have become all too routine in defense contracting. This includes launching a program of acquisition reform and management, which would end the common practice of no-bid contracting. He will end the abuse of supplemental budgets by creating a system of oversight for war funds as stringent as in the regular budget. He will restore the government's ability to manage contracts by rebuilding our contract officer corps. He will order the Justice Department to prioritize prosecutions that will punish and deter fraud, waste and abuse.
Nah, that's just campaign rhetoric to make the kool-aid drinkers feel special.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/02/27/obama-on-nuclear-disarmament/
 
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