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the man makes a great point.

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Tam, "Sandhusker you seem to have forgotten that US beef is putting FOREIGN consumers at risk also. We import beef from you and so do other countries. So I ask you if you have the right to demand restriction on the Canadian system to protect US consumers why aren't you willing to live up to the same restrictions to protect FOREIGN consumers . If you don't want to live up to those restictions you are demanding then maybe you should contact the Congressmen you have on speed dial and demand they stop threatening the Foreign governments if they don't want your beef."

As far as I'm concerned, our Congressmen are out of line to threaten Japan with a trade war. My opinion is that it is up to customer on what they want and don't want and nothing should be forced on anybody. Therefore, I am willing to deal with restrictions and demands and reserve the right do make some demands of my own.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "Sandhusker you seem to have forgotten that US beef is putting FOREIGN consumers at risk also. We import beef from you and so do other countries. So I ask you if you have the right to demand restriction on the Canadian system to protect US consumers why aren't you willing to live up to the same restrictions to protect FOREIGN consumers . If you don't want to live up to those restictions you are demanding then maybe you should contact the Congressmen you have on speed dial and demand they stop threatening the Foreign governments if they don't want your beef."

As far as I'm concerned, our Congressmen are out of line to threaten Japan with a trade war. My opinion is that it is up to customer on what they want and don't want and nothing should be forced on anybody. Therefore, I am willing to deal with restrictions and demands and reserve the right do make some demands of my own.

It is just political pandering after the administration has failed to govern properly. The politicians doing this should be seen as shallow as their positions portray. They have no business governing our country.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Tam:
Quote:
"Econ101":Tam, the USDA may try to blame bse on producers for not going along with what the packers want them to go along with but who cares?

Taken from article:
1.what our customers are demanding regarding traceability. What they're demanding is simply 100%. ----
2.Our customers -- consumers, restaurants and grocery stores -- are demanding it, and it's quickly becoming a cost of participating in the global beef market.
3.If free enterprise works, consumers are demanding it, and our industry has the ability to do it, why are we spinning our wheels? ---
4.Thankfully, the invisible hand of the marketplace is already moving -- McDonald's is paying premiums, and Wal-Mart is making demands.

Tam, a pure bse free herd is what is needed and a real regulatory agency that does its job with respect to health threats and food safety.

Tam, you are from Canada. I know you have been trained to accept the second best choice. Maybe you can not help thinking this way.

eCON you are right for once a pure bse free herd is what is needed but you don't have one, and by the age of your positive cases you haven't had one for a VERY LONG TIME. In light of that information wouldn't it be nice of producers in the US to give that regulatory agency that you want to do they job with respects to health issues a helpping hand. :nod: Which means providing them with the information that they need to find sources of the Health risking problem. People like you stand pointing the finger of blame at the USDA but what have US producers done to help? They have tied the hands of anyone that tries to find the birth herd or feed source by NOT ID'ing their cattle.

And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON
1. Who has the stricter feed ban which EXCLUDES three known sources of cross contamination? Canada or the US
2.Who has a system in place that ID's their whole herd back to birthplace? Canada or the US
3.Who has a national system up and running that can age vertifiy by birthdate? Canada or the US
4. Who was not caught cheating the BSE testing by their own government investigators? Canada or the US
5. Who has not had to recall BSE infected meat from their Human food Chain? Canada or the US
6. Who had all investigations into BSE positve cattle actually concluded with some results? Canada or the US.
7. Who doesn't have a beef organization threatening consumer confidence with lies and court actions? Canada or the US
8. who doesn't have a beef organization feeding anti beef groups ammo to shoot producers with? Canada or the US
9 Who was the first country to see beef demands go up after the discovery of BSE because consumer were confident we were protecting their health?
10. What country did the OIE say should be emulated in their handleing of the discovery of BSE?
11. What country was the USDA going to mimic they new BSE safeguards after?

And the list goes on and on.
If that is second best in your eyes eCON I'm glad I made the choice of marrying a CANADIAN RANCHER. As the Canadian system has never been second best to the US system in any respect. :wink: :lol2: :lol2:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
Econ101 said:
Tam:
Quote:
"Econ101":Tam, the USDA may try to blame bse on producers for not going along with what the packers want them to go along with but who cares?

Taken from article:
1.what our customers are demanding regarding traceability. What they're demanding is simply 100%. ----
2.Our customers -- consumers, restaurants and grocery stores -- are demanding it, and it's quickly becoming a cost of participating in the global beef market.
3.If free enterprise works, consumers are demanding it, and our industry has the ability to do it, why are we spinning our wheels? ---
4.Thankfully, the invisible hand of the marketplace is already moving -- McDonald's is paying premiums, and Wal-Mart is making demands.

Tam, a pure bse free herd is what is needed and a real regulatory agency that does its job with respect to health threats and food safety.

Tam, you are from Canada. I know you have been trained to accept the second best choice. Maybe you can not help thinking this way.

eCON you are right for once a pure bse free herd is what is needed but you don't have one, and by the age of your positive cases you haven't had one for a VERY LONG TIME. In light of that information wouldn't it be nice of producers in the US to give that regulatory agency that you want to do they job with respects to health issues a helpping hand. :nod: Which means providing them with the information that they need to find sources of the Health risking problem. People like you stand pointing the finger of blame at the USDA but what have US producers done to help? They have tied the hands of anyone that tries to find the birth herd or feed source by NOT ID'ing their cattle.

And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON

Econ: from is the operative word here, Tam. I am sure Oltimer is relieved.

1. Who has the stricter feed ban which EXCLUDES three known sources of cross contamination? Canada or the US

Econ: Neither the U.S. or Canada has a govt. that is willing to take on this industry. The Alberta report proved that. Both the U.S. and Canada are still catering to the packers with their SRM policies and not allowing companies to test for bse themselves.

2.Who has a system in place that ID's their whole herd back to birthplace? Canada or the US

Econ: The policies you have adopted because of bseconomics is your problem. It has been shown on this site that the ID situation in Canada is not a panacea for the problem. Not even close.

3.Who has a national system up and running that can age vertifiy by birthdate? Canada or the US

Econ: So are you arguing that it is better to have big brother looking over your shoulder than a competent regulatory agency?

4. Who was not caught cheating the BSE testing by their own government investigators? Canada or the US

Econ: Now you are getting closer to the real problem and the one the Japanese see also.

5. Who has not had to recall BSE infected meat from their Human food Chain? Canada or the US

Econ: You can not say with confidence that there have not been shipments of beef that should have been recalled but were not. It is a problem endemic to both our regulatory agencies.

6. Who had all investigations into BSE positve cattle actually concluded with some results? Canada or the US.

Econ: Same as #6 although I doubt even this solution would have been done without closing the border and creating a crisis for producers that incidentally large packers used to finance their takeover of the Canadian slaughter capacity.

7. Who doesn't have a beef organization threatening consumer confidence with lies and court actions? Canada or the US

Econ: When you call for better food safety is it always "threatening consumer confidence"? If so, maybe rcalf is ahead of you there. It seems you have some catching up to do.

8. who doesn't have a beef organization feeding anti beef groups ammo to shoot producers with? Canada or the US

Econ: That happens to be your problem. The short sightedness of people like you in Canada was the one of the causes for the hard times Canadian producers went through. The blame on that belong squarely on your shoulders. Ask OT.

9 Who was the first country to see beef demands go up after the discovery of BSE because consumer were confident we were protecting their health?

Econ: If things were so rosey, why are you asking for the U.S. to allow shipments of beef into the U.S.? I happen to be on the producer side of these issues, whether in the U.S. or Canada, but your arguments make it hard.

10. What country did the OIE say should be emulated in their handleing of the discovery of BSE?

Econ: Since when did the OIE guidlines become your bible? It is another argument for convenience.

11. What country was the USDA going to mimic they new BSE safeguards after?

Econ: The only one trying to get the U.S. to mimic your system is a bunch of foriegners and packer backers. Again you are tricked into solution #2 because packers refused to go along with solution #1.

And the list goes on and on.

Econ: And on and on and on.

If that is second best in your eyes eCON I'm glad I made the choice of marrying a CANADIAN RANCHER. As the Canadian system has never been second best to the US system in any respect. :wink: :lol2: :lol2

Econ: There is nothing second best about a decent person anywhere on the globe, Tam. They are all equal. I wish that sometimes you could aspire to that concept.

The second best I was talking about was the choice between a competent regulatory agency in government that can enforce rules and integrity for the industry it regulates vs. the second best packer solution of traceback and no private bse testing so the govts that have shown their incompetency can continue to wield the power and control over the industry for packers that are essentiall bribing govt. officials and politicians.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Econ101
And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON

Econ: from is the operative word here, Tam. I am sure Oltimer is relieved.

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:
 

cutterone

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
The last ID program proposed by the USDA didn't go thru to the consumer - it stopped at the packer.

I believe the biggest problem herein is the lack of correct info coming out in forums and coffee shops by the uninformed. Cow/calf producers do not have to tag every animal - only the 1st calf of a group not the entire group. And you need not purchase a reader. I'm sure that if a producer has any real goals of being sucessfull he should be keeping good records and this just becomes another tool to assess his strong and weak points. I believe that disease control and source is a big part of this program to satisfy the demands of the consumers, but also being driven by the packers/buyers to try and inprove the quality of the very product that we produce. When those who abstain to take part in the program don't recieve the premium benifits they will be first to complain about low profits.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
cutterone said:
Sandhusker said:
The last ID program proposed by the USDA didn't go thru to the consumer - it stopped at the packer.

I believe the biggest problem herein is the lack of correct info coming out in forums and coffee shops by the uninformed. Cow/calf producers do not have to tag every animal - only the 1st calf of a group not the entire group. And you need not purchase a reader. I'm sure that if a producer has any real goals of being sucessfull he should be keeping good records and this just becomes another tool to assess his strong and weak points. I believe that disease control and source is a big part of this program to satisfy the demands of the consumers, but also being driven by the packers/buyers to try and inprove the quality of the very product that we produce. When those who abstain to take part in the program don't recieve the premium benifits they will be first to complain about low profits.

Cutterone, I want to make sure you know what I am advocating. Phil (pknoeber) has a program for cattle improvement. I totally believe that the cattle improvement and knowledge base he is promoting is a good thing. I have a problem with policies that negate the benefits to producers of the type of good record keeping that you advocate and the good record system that Phil proposes. With the abuse of market power (or in many instances, the potential abuse), the benefits from the common sense things that you and Phil advocate that relate to the bottom line are captured by the packers, not the producers. I want to make sure that they are captured by the ones who pay for these advances, not the packers who have market power.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Econ101
And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON

Econ: from is the operative word here, Tam. I am sure Oltimer is relieved.

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:

The radical riffraff live in the US, they are the R-CALF membership :nod: :lol2: :lol2:
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
Cow/calf producers do not have to tag every animal - only the 1st calf of a group not the entire group
.

Cutterone, what coffee shop did they tell you this one? Better do some research as you are total wrong. :!:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ranch hand said:
Cow/calf producers do not have to tag every animal - only the 1st calf of a group not the entire group
.

Cutterone, what coffee shop did they tell you this one? Better do some research as you are total wrong. :!:

Yeah I agree with you ranch hand...I think the USDA was looking at using "lot" grouping for things like fish, mink, and poultry and some other animals that go straight from birthfarm to slaughter- but it won't work with cattle...

Many times one buyer will buy and write out the check from his trust account for all the cattle- but they will go to 3 or 4 different feeders and locations (sorted by size, sex etc..).....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Econ101
And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON

Econ: from is the operative word here, Tam. I am sure Oltimer is relieved.

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:

The radical riffraff live in the US, they are the R-CALF membership :nod: :lol2: :lol2:


A fellow who's just reached his 150th birthday was giving
a press conference to the assembled media.

"Excuse me, sir," one of the reporters said, "but how did
you come to live to 150?"

"It's actually quite simple," the old feller replied. "I just never
argue."

"That's impossible," the reporter responded. "There must
be something else, like diet, or meditation, or something.
Just not arguing won't keep you alive for 150 years!"

The old fellow stared hard at the reporter for several
seconds. "Hmmm," he finally shrugged, "maybe you're
right."

----------------

Looks like Tam needs to make sure her affairs are in order- her time on earth could be short :wink:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Econ101

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:

The radical riffraff live in the US, they are the R-CALF membership :nod: :lol2: :lol2:


A fellow who's just reached his 150th birthday was giving
a press conference to the assembled media.

"Excuse me, sir," one of the reporters said, "but how did
you come to live to 150?"

"It's actually quite simple," the old feller replied. "I just never
argue."

"That's impossible," the reporter responded. "There must
be something else, like diet, or meditation, or something.
Just not arguing won't keep you alive for 150 years!"

The old fellow stared hard at the reporter for several
seconds. "Hmmm," he finally shrugged, "maybe you're
right."

----------------

Looks like Tam needs to make sure her affairs are in order- her time on earth could be short :wink:

Tell us Oldtimer how did radical arguing riffraff like you live so long. :wink:
 

cutterone

Well-known member
ranch hand said:
Cow/calf producers do not have to tag every animal - only the 1st calf of a group not the entire group
.

Cutterone, what coffee shop did they tell you this one? Better do some research as you are total wrong. :!:

Look - I'm not tring to argue with you but we researched this and discussed the issue with the Director of BOAH before signing up and were told that a producer who sells his calves in groups ie. spring calves, he only has to tag the first born calve of that group. Now if you sort and split the crop into sized groups then one calf from each group would have to have a tag. The burden of proof falls on the buyers if they split the group. If you sell an idividual ie. a bull or culled cow, then it would also have to be tagged.
I guess what I'm really saying is that if a producer wants to recieve premium prices for his product the he will embrace any form of data retrival to asses his management and genetics. How far he wishes to take the effort is up to him. Most producers are already doing some form of animal identification to track their efforts and this is just another form which can help control disease problems, and the consumer today is more aware of what they buy and don't buy and will dictate what we as producers try to sell them like it or not!
As I see it you can disagree with it all you want but we will all be forced to do it and as for me my emphase has and will be on producing a quality product tha is is demand from today's consumer and take advantage of the premiums that come along with it.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Econ101
And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON

Econ: from is the operative word here, Tam. I am sure Oltimer is relieved.

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:

I thought everybody in Montana was originally from California :D
 

Econ101

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
Oldtimer said:
Econ101
And your second comment, you should know I'M FROM THE US, THE HOME STATE OF R-CALF , MONTANA. Just ask Oldtimer. :roll: But the part about the second best. tell us eCON

Econ: from is the operative word here, Tam. I am sure Oltimer is relieved.

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:

I thought everybody in Montana was originally from California :D

No, everyone is originally from Texas. :lol:
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
RoperAB said:
Oldtimer said:
Econ101

Could this be the reason the US immigration is turning the entry ports into forts and requiring passports :???: Have to watch out for the radical riffraff sneaking in... :lol:

I thought everybody in Montana was originally from California :D

No, everyone is originally from Texas. :lol:
:D Well thats what I used to think but if you go there today most people will say they are from California.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
RoperAB said:
Econ101 said:
No, everyone is originally from Texas. :lol:
:D Well thats what I used to think but if you go there today most people will say they are from California.

Californians are really from Texas. You aren't digging deep enough. :wink:

I used to guide a lot of Texian hunters. They were a great bunch of guys. Why are rcalfers from Montana so different?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
Econ101 said:
RoperAB said:
:D Well thats what I used to think but if you go there today most people will say they are from California.

Californians are really from Texas. You aren't digging deep enough. :wink:

I used to guide a lot of Texian hunters. They were a great bunch of guys. Why are rcalfers from Montana so different?

Ask Tam. I bet she knows.
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
cutterone said:
ranch hand said:
Cow/calf producers do not have to tag every animal - only the 1st calf of a group not the entire group
.

Cutterone, what coffee shop did they tell you this one? Better do some research as you are total wrong. :!:

Look - I'm not tring to argue with you but we researched this and discussed the issue with the Director of BOAH before signing up and were told that a producer who sells his calves in groups ie. spring calves, he only has to tag the first born calve of that group. Now if you sort and split the crop into sized groups then one calf from each group would have to have a tag. The burden of proof falls on the buyers if they split the group. If you sell an idividual ie. a bull or culled cow, then it would also have to be tagged.
I guess what I'm really saying is that if a producer wants to recieve premium prices for his product the he will embrace any form of data retrival to asses his management and genetics. How far he wishes to take the effort is up to him. Most producers are already doing some form of animal identification to track their efforts and this is just another form which can help control disease problems, and the consumer today is more aware of what they buy and don't buy and will dictate what we as producers try to sell them like it or not!
As I see it you can disagree with it all you want but we will all be forced to do it and as for me my emphase has and will be on producing a quality product tha is is demand from today's consumer and take advantage of the premiums that come along with it.

You are being informed wrong, good thing people on this site can straighten you out. Every animal that leaves the premise must be tagged by the producer for M'ID. I brought it up because of your attitude of coffee shop and ranchers.net people not knowing what they are talking about.
 

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