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The Man Wouldn't Lie . . . . .

Richard Doolittle

Well-known member
This is ridiculous. We're trying to alienate our friends while we aplologize to our enemies.

Personally, I think we should have unrestricted two way trade with Canada.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Canada, EU launch free trade negotiations

By THE CANADIAN PRESS

Last Updated: 6th May 2009, 8:27am

PRAGUE, Czech Republic — Canada and the European Union have formally launched negotiations toward a free trade agreement.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, European Union President Mirek Topolanek and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso announced the move today after meeting in Prague.

Harper says Canada is moving toward an economic partnership agreement with the EU at a time when many other countries are placing protectionist walls around their trading relationships.
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
I have made a few posts on this topic over the past few weeks - most of which have been ignored or read and not commented upon - Obama mania is fast becoming "Oh No Not Obama Again!" in Canada.

Relations between the countries has been good and has been bad over the past years - but now they need each other more than ever - but if this keeps up relations will go very far south in a big hurry - and that will do nothing for any of us.

Fact is the U.S. of A. cannot provide all things to all people without trade.

Prices will rise when supply falls.

At one and a half billion dollars A DAY trade between countries you can be sure of one thing - this will also hurt those south of the border.

Trade is two way street - and this is an Obama issue - NOT Bush - although I am sure someone will attempt to spin it that way.

ALL the major media outlets in Canada are now starting to report negatively on Obama, more than a few people up here are now awake - and we could all be in for a bit if a financial bath.

First the EU, then the Brits, then portions of the middle east and now your largest trading partner - all have started negatively reporting - the world is waking up - slowly, but it is waking up and it is watching what happens in your back yard as well as their own front yard.

They see, and now no longer excuse the broken promises and many other items that were to have been removed from a transparent government.

Something will have to give within the next 180 days or a lot of folks north and south of the border will either see prices on general items and food rise dramatically - or they will be out of a job due to protectionism.

And yes, it CAN happen.

BC
 

Mike

Well-known member
I have made a few posts on this topic over the past few weeks - most of which have been ignored or read and not commented upon - Obama mania is fast becoming "Oh No Not Obama Again!" in Canada.

Just because some of your writings were not commented on, does NOT mean they weren't read.

Believe me, they were read and absorbed thoroughly....... :wink:
 

don

Well-known member
there is such a tendency on this board to blame all things bad on obama and to accept as gospel any criticism of the president. there was american protectionism against canadian lumber, cattle/beef, wheat and other products long before obama and through administrations of both parties. protectionism was coming regardless of who won the election; hard times make it seem an option to some. objective thinking makes things a lot clearer than knee jerk dogmatism. america (and canada) should realize that balances of power are shifting around the world and adjustments will have to be made. business wanted globalism, now we have it and it's unlikely it will become a thing of the past. the trick is to find solutions under today's conditions instead fo just thinking we can go back to the future.
 

Yanuck

Well-known member
Mike said:
I have made a few posts on this topic over the past few weeks - most of which have been ignored or read and not commented upon - Obama mania is fast becoming "Oh No Not Obama Again!" in Canada.

Just because some of your writings were not commented on, does NOT mean they weren't read.

Believe me, they were read and absorbed thoroughly....... :wink:

:agree:
 

Mike

Well-known member
don said:
there is such a tendency on this board to blame all things bad on obama and to accept as gospel any criticism of the president. there was american protectionism against canadian lumber, cattle/beef, wheat and other products long before obama and through administrations of both parties. protectionism was coming regardless of who won the election; hard times make it seem an option to some. objective thinking makes things a lot clearer than knee jerk dogmatism. america (and canada) should realize that balances of power are shifting around the world and adjustments will have to be made. business wanted globalism, now we have it and it's unlikely it will become a thing of the past. the trick is to find solutions under today's conditions instead fo just thinking we can go back to the future.
February NAFTA trade down 30%

By eTrucker Staff

Trade using surface transportation between the United States and its North American Free Trade Agreement partners Canada and Mexico was 30.9 percent lower in February 2009 than in February 2008, dropping to $47.9 billion, the biggest year-to-year percentage decline on record, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

February was the fourth consecutive month with a yearly decline of greater than 13 percent. During the first two months of 2009, the value of surface trade dropped 29.1 percent compared to the first two months of 2008.
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
Mike said:
don said:
there is such a tendency on this board to blame all things bad on obama and to accept as gospel any criticism of the president. there was american protectionism against canadian lumber, cattle/beef, wheat and other products long before obama and through administrations of both parties. protectionism was coming regardless of who won the election; hard times make it seem an option to some. objective thinking makes things a lot clearer than knee jerk dogmatism. america (and canada) should realize that balances of power are shifting around the world and adjustments will have to be made. business wanted globalism, now we have it and it's unlikely it will become a thing of the past. the trick is to find solutions under today's conditions instead fo just thinking we can go back to the future.
February NAFTA trade down 30%

By eTrucker Staff

Trade using surface transportation between the United States and its North American Free Trade Agreement partners Canada and Mexico was 30.9 percent lower in February 2009 than in February 2008, dropping to $47.9 billion, the biggest year-to-year percentage decline on record, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

February was the fourth consecutive month with a yearly decline of greater than 13 percent. During the first two months of 2009, the value of surface trade dropped 29.1 percent compared to the first two months of 2008.

Actually good comparisoms - the problem is that protectionism is rising from the Obama "buy American" policy.

This is not a trade dispute that can be settled in court - unless you wish to discuss the court of public opinion - and at present the average American that lives a long ways from the border does not see this as a bad happening. So they continue to support this in pretty decent numbers - which in turn keeps the Obama camp happy - for now.

Votes and polls showing good numbers makes a politician very happy.

And there will be some in Canada that see this as Obama bashing or as a normal business practise when times get tough.

However those south of the border that cannot heat or cool their homes due to expensive - or a shortage of natural gas - or buy a product not made in the U.S. but made in Canada - will sooner or later have the same opinion as many thousands of business owners in Canada who even now cannot sell their wares - or even bid on a contract in the U.S. of A. and therefore must lay off their workers - who in turn will begin to realize there is a serious problem at the border.

Don makes some good points - but without intending to insult him - I see him as a person who has a good grasp on what can happen - but not at what IS happening at present.

Ontario is a manufacturing province - and it has seen output drop dramatically as demand from the main trade partner drops. Multiply that by all the provinces and we will see how happy Canadians are in 180 days - UNLESS - as I stated - things turn around somehow and this becomes a minor bump in the road.

Ontario is the weathermark when it comes to manufacturing in Canada and it is down - way down as the main trading partner stops accepting bids on American contracts.

However - as long as the Obama camp believe this "Buy American" policy is a good thing - and the people of the U.S. of A. continue to support it - things will not get better.

A good idea in principle - but in practise a lot of people and companies will be hurt quite badly as it continues. On both sides of the border.

Producers on the north side will have to reduce labour and production as their produce piles up.

Workers and companies south of the border may suffer lay offs to to short supply and or rising costs of newly developed manufacturing capability.

And we do not even get into who gets the gas and oil Canada supplies - which is more than Saudi supplies - what if it goes to China? Your costs go up.

All of this can happen.

One good thing for the the U.S. of A. - several Ontario companies are now opening branches in the U.S. of A. to continue doing business with the Americans - but the Canadian worker loses out.

Going to be interesting as this continues.

BC
 

don

Well-known member
you're right. it's all obama's fault. praise the lord, i've seen the light! rotflmao wouldn't have anything to do with a recession brought on by the credit crisis which had developed over the previous decade or so. would it?
 

Texan

Well-known member
Broke Cowboy said:
I have made a few posts on this topic over the past few weeks - most of which have been ignored or read and not commented upon - Obama mania is fast becoming "Oh No Not Obama Again!" in Canada.
I read your posts - every word of them. And a lot of times no comment is made because nothing else needs to be said.

But one of the things that confuses me about Canada and Canadians is this...

I read a lot of posts on here from don, Silver, elwapo, etc. - all of whom I think consider themselves to be conservatives. And I have no reason to think that any of them are liberals. But all of them act like we should be pleased with the most radical liberal that the Democrat party has ever nominated.

There's no way I would wish that on Canadians who, for the most part, share my values and share my way of life. But they act like we should embrace the most radical liberal that has ever been elected President in this country. That confuses the hell out of me. :???:
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
Texan said:
Broke Cowboy said:
I have made a few posts on this topic over the past few weeks - most of which have been ignored or read and not commented upon - Obama mania is fast becoming "Oh No Not Obama Again!" in Canada.
I read your posts - every word of them. And a lot of times no comment is made because nothing else needs to be said.

But one of the things that confuses me about Canada and Canadians is this...

I read a lot of posts on here from don, Silver, elwapo, etc. - all of whom I think consider themselves to be conservatives. And I have no reason to think that any of them are liberals. But all of them act like we should be pleased with the most radical liberal that the Democrat party has ever nominated.

There's no way I would wish that on Canadians who, for the most part, share my values and share my way of life. But they act like we should embrace the most radical liberal that has ever been elected President in this country. That confuses the hell out of me. :???:

I would never answer that question here - too many would consider it a personal attack - but would be happy to give you a PM - very short and very succint.

You only think you know Canadians my friend.

BC
 

don

Well-known member
i'm not saying you have to be pleased with a more liberal administration than the previous eight years but the comparisons to hitler are not only ridiculous, they're offensive to anyone who suffered under the nazi regime or fought against it. things get a little ridiculous here. i believe it's everybody's right to disagree but some of the pastes are beyond reason and if they don't invite ridicule, they should at least stimulate argument as to their validity. nobody is right (or wrong) all the time. extremes are mostly counterproductive. they're like religion - no room for reason or compromise. i don't consider myself conservative or liberal. i generally try to look at a situation and try to see how it came to be, what are the consequences and how do you deal with it. nineteen fifties came and went, ike is dead, reagan is dead so they ain't gonna fix nothin'. find a solution to this mess that works in today's world. obama might not be so far off as some of the extreme rightwingers that see evil in change.
 

Texan

Well-known member
don said:
i'm not saying you have to be pleased with a more liberal administration than the previous eight years but the comparisons to hitler are not only ridiculous, they're offensive to anyone who suffered under the nazi regime or fought against it. things get a little ridiculous here. i believe it's everybody's right to disagree but some of the pastes are beyond reason and if they don't invite ridicule, they should at least stimulate argument as to their validity. nobody is right (or wrong) all the time. extremes are mostly counterproductive. they're like religion - no room for reason or compromise. i don't consider myself conservative or liberal. i generally try to look at a situation and try to see how it came to be, what are the consequences and how do you deal with it. nineteen fifties came and went, ike is dead, reagan is dead so they ain't gonna fix nothin'. find a solution to this mess that works in today's world. obama might not be so far off as some of the extreme rightwingers that see evil in change.
I agree with some of what you say, don. Especially the part that nobody is right or wrong all of the time. And that extremes are mostly counterproductive.

But it seems to me that you are a lot like Oldtimer, don. You're mesmerized by Obama's speeches and want to believe him so bad that you don't see the truth right in front of you.

Because Obama is such a smooth-talker, Oldtimer has got a schoolgirl crush on him and refuses to admit what he really is. Or what a fool he is making out of everyone who supports him.

Conservatives here are never going to support Obama on most things and there's no reason why they should. He represents one of the greatest dangers we've ever seen to future generations here because he doesn't care that they will have to pay for his spending spree and entitlements.

All the while turning us into a place that has less productivity because more and more people will just stick their hand out waiting on big government to take care of them. If that's what you want for Canada, that's fine with me. Just don't wish it on us.
 

don

Well-known member
i don't think i'm mesmerized by obama. i don't watch his press conferences or look for news of what he is doing other than what is on regular newscasts. i think more 'conservatives' are obsessed by him. the usa is now in a position where it is as reliant on other parts of the world as they are on the usa. i think some people are panicked by the fact that some in the present administration recognize that fact and will operate accordingly. if the united states could live on its own resources it would have more options but by living on credit it could be said the usa has had its hand out to the rest of the world, too. the arabs have loved this situation as have the chinese, japanese and a host of other countries. the united states has lost some of its independence and that, understandably, is a tough pill to swallow. as far as obama goes i said on here a while back that the first black president wouldn't necessarily be a great president; he would just be the first black president. that's been a huge development. he's presiding in tough times and i find it hard to imagine anyone occupying his office these days would do much differently. how he goes down in history remains to be seen but the republicans seem to be making it easy for hime to govern without effective opposition.
 
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