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The Obama ATF in action?

Texan

Well-known member
Is this just a preliminary sign of things to come? :???:

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In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

Friday, June 19, 2009

NRA-ILA has recently received several calls from NRA members in border states who have been visited or called by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. In some cases, agents have asked to enter these people's homes, and requested serial numbers of all firearms the members possess.

In each case, the agents were making inquiries based on the number of firearms these NRA members had recently bought, and in some cases the agents said they were asking because the members had bought types of guns that are frequently recovered in Mexico.

This kind of questioning may or may not be part of a legitimate criminal investigation. For example, when BATFE traces a gun seized after use in a crime, manufacturers' and dealers' records will normally lead to the first retail buyer of that gun, and investigators will have to interview the buyer to find out how the gun ended up in criminal hands. But in other cases, the questioning may simply be based on information in dealers' records, with agents trying to "profile" potentially suspicious purchases.

On the other hand, some of the agents have used heavy-handed tactics. One reportedly demanded that a gun owner return home early from a business trip, while another threatened to "report" an NRA member as "refusing to cooperate." That kind of behavior is outrageous and unprofessional.

Whether agents act appropriately or not, concerned gun owners should remember that all constitutional protections apply. Answering questions in this type of investigation is generally an individual choice. Most importantly, there are only a few relatively rare exceptions to the general Fourth Amendment requirement that law enforcement officials need a warrant to enter a home without the residents' consent. There is nothing wrong with politely, but firmly, asserting your rights.

If BATFE contacts you and you have any question about how to respond, you may want to consult a local attorney. NRA members may also call NRA-ILA's Office of Legislative Counsel at (703) 267-1161 for further information. Whether contacting a local attorney or NRA, be sure to provide as many details as possible, including the date, time, and location, agent's name, and specific questions asked.



http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4990
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Texan said:
CattleArmy said:
It's upsetting for people to ask how many guns you own? :???:
If I'm not a criminal and have no criminal intent, it's really nobody's business, is it?

Why hide it?

If someone walked up to my door and asked how many guns were in my home and could show me they were who they said they were I'd tell them. I guess I don't understand why it's a big deal? Here to buy guns you have to register so couldn't they just find out that way?
 

Texan

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Why hide it?

If someone walked up to my door and asked how many guns were in my home and could show me they were who they said they were I'd tell them. I guess I don't understand why it's a big deal? Here to buy guns you have to register so couldn't they just find out that way?
Is there anything that you feel is not the federal government's business? If they came to your door and wanted to know about your religious practices, would you tell them? If they wanted to know about the books you read, would you tell them? How about your sexual practices? If they wanted to look around in your bedroom to check out your toys (if any), is that okay with you? Everybody has a line to draw - where is yours?
 

CattleArmy

Well-known member
Texan said:
CattleArmy said:
Why hide it?

If someone walked up to my door and asked how many guns were in my home and could show me they were who they said they were I'd tell them. I guess I don't understand why it's a big deal? Here to buy guns you have to register so couldn't they just find out that way?
Is there anything that you feel is not the federal government's business? If they came to your door and wanted to know about your religious practices, would you tell them? If they wanted to know about the books you read, would you tell them? How about your sexual practices? If they wanted to look around in your bedroom to check out your toys (if any), is that okay with you? Everybody has a line to draw - where is yours?

Religion yes
books yes
sex yes

Might be odded out if they wanted to come on in and look around though. So is that my line?
 

Texan

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Religion yes
books yes
sex yes

Might be odded out if they wanted to come on in and look around though. So is that my line?
Yep, I'd say that's your line. We have the expectation of privacy in our homes. Even without the Second Amendment issue involving the guns. I don't want the government snooping around to see how many guns I have, just like I don't want them snooping around to see how much money I have.

And I don't want them snooping around to see who/what you have sex with, either. Because the only way I can protect the rights that are important to ME, is if I'm willing to help you protect the ones that are important to YOU. :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
Texan said:
CattleArmy said:
Why hide it?

If someone walked up to my door and asked how many guns were in my home and could show me they were who they said they were I'd tell them. I guess I don't understand why it's a big deal? Here to buy guns you have to register so couldn't they just find out that way?
Is there anything that you feel is not the federal government's business? If they came to your door and wanted to know about your religious practices, would you tell them? If they wanted to know about the books you read, would you tell them? How about your sexual practices? If they wanted to look around in your bedroom to check out your toys (if any), is that okay with you? Everybody has a line to draw - where is yours?

Religion yes
books yes
sex yes

Might be odded out if they wanted to come on in and look around though. So is that my line?

Why do you not just tell us about your sex life? You got any lately? What style do you like doing it?

When was the last time you menstruated? Have you ever had sex with another woman? How about an animal? Ever fantasized about vegetables?

Does your husband satisfy you? Do you have a husband?

See the point is I have about as much right to ask them questions as the Government does.

Why does anyone working for Government have rights over you or need to know anything about you if you did nothing wrong?
 

Ben H

Well-known member
Guns are not registered, you fill out a form to purchase them. The dealer had a record of what you bought. If the gun is used in a crime and left/found, that serial number can be traced back to the place of purchase and then buyer. I/you can fill out a form and get the background check, I can then buy a few guns, none of which are in a "registry".

History has shown us that registration is a precursor to confiscation. The government has no business knowing how many guns I have. What I would be more likely to support is if they checked to verify that every household has at least one service rifle and a minimum amount of ammunition, kind of like what the Swiss are required to have.

Some states require registration to a point, I know NY requires handguns to be registered, that's one reason I moved back to Maine.
 

Mike

Well-known member
CattleArmy said:
It's upsetting for people to ask how many guns you own? :???:

Why would anyone seriously ask how many guns I own?

Does owning more than a few guns make me more culpable than someone who owns just one?

I have nothing to hide but this is an invasion of my privacy.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
CattleArmy said:
It's upsetting for people to ask how many guns you own? :???:

Why would anyone seriously ask how many guns I own?

Does owning more than a few guns make me more culpable than someone who owns just one?

I have nothing to hide but this is an invasion of my privacy.

There has been a problem with gun dealers along the border states with Mexico selling numerous guns to people that are buying a large quantity of guns and then selling to Mexican Drug Cartel and the guns are smuggled to Mexico. I see not problem with this. If you have bought a hundred assault rifles then then someone needs to know what you are doing with them if you are not a registered gun dealer.
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
hurleyjd said:
Mike said:
CattleArmy said:
It's upsetting for people to ask how many guns you own? :???:

Why would anyone seriously ask how many guns I own?

Does owning more than a few guns make me more culpable than someone who owns just one?

I have nothing to hide but this is an invasion of my privacy.

There has been a problem with gun dealers along the border states with Mexico selling numerous guns to people that are buying a large quantity of guns and then selling to Mexican Drug Cartel and the guns are smuggled to Mexico. I see not problem with this. If you have bought a hundred assault rifles then then someone needs to know what you are doing with them if you are not a registered gun dealer.

I'm sorry, where in the constitution is it written what the quantity of guns you can own is?? so If I only bought 99 would I be ok??
where is it written so I can check it out so I don't break the law??
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Lonecowboy said:
hurleyjd said:
Mike said:
Why would anyone seriously ask how many guns I own?

Does owning more than a few guns make me more culpable than someone who owns just one?

I have nothing to hide but this is an invasion of my privacy.

There has been a problem with gun dealers along the border states with Mexico selling numerous guns to people that are buying a large quantity of guns and then selling to Mexican Drug Cartel and the guns are smuggled to Mexico. I see not problem with this. If you have bought a hundred assault rifles then then someone needs to know what you are doing with them if you are not a registered gun dealer.

I'm sorry, where in the constitution is it written what the quantity of guns you can own is?? so If I only bought 99 would I be ok??
where is it written so I can check it out so I don't break the law??

Anything over a few should set off some bells and whistles at ATF- and they should be checking to see if someone is going around the dealers laws- and illegally smuggling arms to another country to aid and profiteer off drug dealers...
Thats why we have the enforcement people...
 

MsSage

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Lonecowboy said:
hurleyjd said:
There has been a problem with gun dealers along the border states with Mexico selling numerous guns to people that are buying a large quantity of guns and then selling to Mexican Drug Cartel and the guns are smuggled to Mexico. I see not problem with this. If you have bought a hundred assault rifles then then someone needs to know what you are doing with them if you are not a registered gun dealer.

I'm sorry, where in the constitution is it written what the quantity of guns you can own is?? so If I only bought 99 would I be ok??
where is it written so I can check it out so I don't break the law??

Anything over a few should set off some bells and whistles at ATF- and they should be checking to see if someone is going around the dealers laws- and illegally smuggling arms to another country to aid and profiteer off drug dealers...
Thats why we have the enforcement people...

Gawd you do buy into the lies the MSM dish out dont you????
Mexican President Felipe Calderon on Wednesday made an assertion -- cited in the past by Mexico's U.S. ambassador and even by U.S. leaders, but debunked as a myth -- that 90 percent of the weapons intercepted in Mexico come from the U.S.

hmmm enforcement yeah ok......how about the 4th amendment??????

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

OT I have to feel for the people you act as Judge for, if your understanding of the Constitution is so lacking. One has to wonder do you understand the laws the same as you do the Constitution?

CA you are willing to give up your bill of rights for the false sense of security? Then CA you deserve neither.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
MsSage said:
Oldtimer said:
Lonecowboy said:
I'm sorry, where in the constitution is it written what the quantity of guns you can own is?? so If I only bought 99 would I be ok??
where is it written so I can check it out so I don't break the law??

Anything over a few should set off some bells and whistles at ATF- and they should be checking to see if someone is going around the dealers laws- and illegally smuggling arms to another country to aid and profiteer off drug dealers...
Thats why we have the enforcement people...

Gawd you do buy into the lies the MSM dish out dont you????
Mexican President Felipe Calderon on Wednesday made an assertion -- cited in the past by Mexico's U.S. ambassador and even by U.S. leaders, but debunked as a myth -- that 90 percent of the weapons intercepted in Mexico come from the U.S.

hmmm enforcement yeah ok......how about the 4th amendment??????

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

OT I have to feel for the people you act as Judge for, if your understanding of the Constitution is so lacking. One has to wonder do you understand the laws the same as you do the Constitution?

CA you are willing to give up your bill of rights for the false sense of security? Then CA you deserve neither.

I understand the Constitution and the laws quite well-- and smuggling assault weapons to the drug cartels to profiteer off drug and blood money is a crime- and should be vigorously investigated and prosecuted....

Asking people what they did with the weapons they bought or asking them if they can see them is not against the law or unconstitutional...But sure can give you an idea of who you maybe should be looking deeper at....Most honest law abiding people would have no problem with helping to curb the violence that is being wrought by these illegal traders and the drug cartels.....

The NRA- just like HSUS on the left- thrives on fearmongering- and getting more people to send them money- so hype everything up...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
So if a person clams up and refuses to answer any question about their guns, they are a person of suspicion?

I definitely wouldn't call them a cooperative witness- and would be keeping their name on a list until further evidence cleared it....

Rightwingernut crazies are as paranoid or more than the druggers themselves- and both think everyone is out to get them...
 
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