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The Pope Must Die!

Mike

Well-known member
A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

Should the Pope have apologised for his remarks? Vote here

His remarks came during a protest outside Westminster Cathedral on a day that worldwide anger among Muslim hardliners towards Pope Benedict XVI appeared to deepen.

The pontiff yesterday apologised for causing offence during a lecture last week. Quoting a medieval emperor, his words were taken to mean that he called the prophet Mohammed "evil and inhuman".

He insisted he was "deeply sorry" but his humbling words did not go far enough to silence all his critics or quell the violence and anger he has triggered.

A nun was shot dead in Somalia by Islamic gunmen and churches came under attack in Palestine.

Choudary's appeal for the death of Pope Benedict was the second time he has been linked with apparent incitement to murder within a year.

The 39-year-old lawyer organised

demonstrations against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed in February in Denmark. Protesters carried placards declaring "Behead Those Who Insult Islam".

Yesterday he said: "The Muslims take their religion very seriously and non-Muslims must appreciate that and that must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the prophet.

"Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment."

He added: "I am here have a peaceful demonstration. But there may be people in Italy or other parts of the world who would carry that out.

"I think that warning needs to be understood by all people who want to insult Islam and want to insult the prophet of Islam."

As well as placards attacking the Pope such as "Pope go to Hell", his followers outside the country's principal Roman Catholic church also waved slogans aimed at offending the sentiments of Christians such as "Jesus is the slave of Allah".

A Scotland Yard spokesman said of his comments: "We have had no complaints about this. There were around 100 people at the demonstration. It passed off peacefully and there were no arrests."

Larger Islamic groups in Britain said they accepted the Pope's apology. Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain said: "The Vatican has moved quickly to deal with the hurt and we accept that.

"It was something that should never have happened - words of that nature were always likely to cause dismay - and we believe some of the Pope's advisers may have been at fault over his speech."

Yesterday's sermon by the Pope was the first time a pontiff has publicly said sorry.

He said he regretted Muslim reaction to his speech and stressed that the quotation did not reflect his personal opinion. Anger and violence - including attacks on seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza - have characterised one of the biggest international crises involving the Vatican in decades.

The Pope appeared determined to move quickly to try to defuse the anger but the fury of many radicals was unabated last night and there were fears for his safety.

Iraqi jihadists issued a video of a scimitar slicing a cross in two, intercut with images of Benedict and the burning Twin Towers.

The website run in the name of the Mujahedeen Army, used by extremist groups who have claimed responsibility for attacks in Iraq, was addressed to "You dog of Rome" and threatened to "shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home".

In a reference to suicide bombing, it said: "We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life."

The threat of violence against Catholics and Christians was emphasised by the murder of an Italian nun in Somalia. Sister Leonella, 66, was shot as she walked from the children's hospital where she worked to her house in Mogadishu, a city recently taken over by an Islamic government.

A Vatican spokesman said he feared her death was "the fruit of violence and irrationality arising from the current situation".

Father Frederico Lombardi said he hoped it was an isolated event. "We are worried about this wave of hatred and hope it doesn't have any grave consequences for the Church around the world," he said.

The murder suggested that extremists are determined to use the Pope's embarrassment as an excuse for violence.

In Turkey, state minister Mehmet Aydin said the Pope seemed to be saying he was sorry for the outrage but not necessarily for his remarks.

"You either have to say this, 'I'm sorry' in a proper way or not say it at all," he told reporters in Istanbul.

There were fierce denunciations of the pontiff from Iran. The English-language Tehran Times called his lecture in Bavaria last week "code words for a new crusade".

The powerful cleric Ahmad Khatami told theological students in the holy city of Qom: The "Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam."

But the Turkish government signalled it was content and that the Pope's visit to the country in November can go ahead.

In his sermon yesterday at the Papal summer residence of Castel Gandolfo outside Rome, Benedict spoke amid strengthened security.

He said: "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims.

"These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought. I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address."

No other Pope is thought to have made such an apology.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Great Falls Tribune ran a poll yesterday asking whether readers thought the Pope should withdraw his statement and apologize for it-- It was running about 80% NO......
 

katrina

Well-known member
All the pope did was call a spade a spade..... And the muslim community don't like it.. Guess the truth hurts......
 

Martin Jr.

Well-known member
I think the Emperor was right!
Here is a web site that tells much about the origin of Islam:
http://www.montfort.org.br/index.php?secao=cadernos&sabsecao=religiao&artigo=maome&lang=eng

click on Religion-Philosophy-history then find the one on origins of Islam
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If nothing else the Pope brought out the true goal of the radical Muslims --------------------------------------------------------------


CAIRO, Egypt — Al Qaeda in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran's supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff's remarks on Islam.

Protests broke out in South Asia and Indonesia, with angry Muslims saying Benedict's statement of regret a day earlier did not go far enough. In southern Iraq, demonstrators carrying black flags burned an effigy of the pope.

Islamic leaders around the world issued more condemnations of the pope's comments, but some moderates in the Middle East appeared to be trying to put a damper on the outrage, fearing it could spiral into attacks on Christians in the region.



On Sunday, Benedict said he was "deeply sorry" over any hurt caused by his comments made in a speech last week, in which he quoted a medieval text characterizing some of the Prophet Muhammad's teachings as "evil and inhuman" and calling Islam a religion spread by the sword.
.

The Vatican on Monday sought to defuse the anger, ordering papal representatives around the world to meet with leaders of Muslim countries to explain the pope's point of view and full context of his speech.

Roman Catholic leaders stepped forward to defend the pontiff. At an Italian bishops' conference, Cardinal Camillo Ruini underlined the bishops' "total closeness and solidarity to the pope" and said they deplored interpretations of the pope's comments "which attribute to the Holy Father ... errors that he has not committed and aim at attacking his person and his ministry."

Few in the Islamic world were satisfied by Benedict's statement of regret.

"The pope's words have caused a deep wound in the hearts of Muslims that won't heal for a long time, and then only after a clear apology to Muslims," Egypt's religious affairs minister, Mahmoud Hamdi Zaqzouq, wrote in a column in the government daily Al-Ahram on Monday.

An influential Egyptian cleric, Sheik Youssef al-Qaradawi, called for protests after weekly prayers on Friday, but maintained they should be peaceful.

Extremists said the pope's comments proved that the West was in a war against Islam.

Al Qaeda in Iraq and its allies issued a statement addressing the pope as "a cross-worshipper" and warning, "You and the West are doomed, as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere.

"You infidels and despots, we will continue our jihad (holy war) and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism, when God's rule is established governing all people and nations," said the statement by the Mujahedeen Shura Council, an umbrella organization of Sunni Arab extremist groups in Iraq.

Another Iraqi extremist group, Ansar al-Sunna, challenged "sleeping Muslims" to prove their manhood by doing something other than "issuing statements or holding demonstrations."

"If the stupid pig is prancing with his blasphemies in his house," the group said in a Web statement, referring to the pope, "then let him wait for the day coming soon when the armies of the religion of right knock on the walls of Rome."

In Iran, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei used the comments to call for protests against the United States. He argued that while the pope may have been deceived into making his remarks, the words give the West an "excuse for suppressing Muslims" by depicting them as terrorists.

"Those who benefit from the pope's comments and drive their own arrogant policies should be targeted with attacks and protests," he said, referring to the United States.

The anger recalled the outrage earlier this year over cartoons depicting the prophet published by a Danish paper. The caricatures, which Muslims saw as insulting Muhammad, set off large, violent protests across the Islamic world.

So far, protests over the pope's comments have been smaller. However, there has been some violence: Attackers hurled firebombs at seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the weekend, and a nun was shot to death in Somalia.

Some 200 Khamenei loyalists in the Syrian capital, Damascus, held a protest Monday at an Islamic shrine, dismissing the pope's apology. "The pope's sorrow was equivocal," read one banner.

Dozens protested outside the Vatican Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, and schools and shops in the Indian-controlled section of Kashmir shut their doors in protest.

"His comments really hurt Muslims all over the world," Umar Nawawi of the radical Islamic Defenders' Front said in Jakarta. "We should remind him not to say such things which can only fuel a holy war."

Islamic countries also asked the U.N. Human Rights Council to examine the question of religious tolerance. Malaysia's foreign minister, Syed Hamid Albar, said Benedict's apology was "inadequate to calm the anger."

In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood said the anger should not be allowed to hurt ties with the Middle East's Christian minorities. But worries among Christians in the region are high.

Guards have been posted around some churches, and the head of Egypt's Orthodox Coptic Church, Pope Shenouda III, disassociated himself from Benedict's statements.

The Dominican mission in Cairo also criticized Benedict's words, saying he chose a text for his speech that "revived the polemics of the past."

"These comments, seen by many Muslims as hurtful, risk encouraging extremists on all sides," it said in a statement, "and put in danger all the advances in dialogue made in recent decades."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214318,00.html
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Great Falls Tribune ran a poll yesterday asking whether readers thought the Pope should withdraw his statement and apologize for it-- It was running about 80% NO......
20% said yes?? Where is all the liberal outrage on this forum??? Not one of ya'll think that this is out of line for the muslims???
 

Judith

Well-known member
When exactly are we just going to nuke the whole blood country ? ( you were all thinkin it I just had the balls to say it) I'm REALLY ticked over this latest one, are the muslim lovers getting any part of this? You and I are infideles, PERIOD. Until we have been enslaved or converted we are nothing.


Hmm, this latest rant brought to you by a woman with PMS and has not had her first coffee. After the bomber killing the Canadian Soldiers handing out candy yesterday. I am ready to go over there myself and just start randomly popping people.
 

katrina

Well-known member
Whoaaaaaaa.....Judth.......Chill...... You need a session with Dr. Mike.....
Oh yeah Mike guess what I found in the bottom of my freezer???? Exspect a package from me in the near future.......
 

Steve

Well-known member
"Three Indonesian Christian militants sentenced to death for attacks on Muslims in 2000 are due to be executed"...Fabianus Tibo, Marianus Riwu and Dominggus Silva had been set to face the firing squad last month but won a reprieve after a papal appeal.

"The men were found guilty of inciting attacks during religious rioting in Central Sulawesi in 2000... "

""If there are unwanted actions, or actions tending toward anarchy, police will not hesitate to take repressive action," Central Sulawesi police chief Badroddin Haiti said.."...

"the government is under pressure from conservative Muslims to execute the men after trying to speed up the executions of three Muslim militants on death row for the 2002 Bali bombings.

Executing the Christian militants “is a kind of crude barter so that the government can been seen as being fair to both communities,” he said. “There is national politics behind this.”.."

"the men, who are uneducated farmers, were not the ringleaders and killing them would mean the state was losing valuable witnesses in later prosecutions. “I am concerned they are being made the fall guys,” he said."

interestingly no muslims were charged with inciting riots....?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Ya wonder who ' writes/.compiles' these speeches for the Pope!!! I mean, yes he was quoting a 14th century writing BUT you'd thought he could have made his point a little less 'pointy".

That being said, what is/has happened is that all the uprising amongst the Muslim world had made that statement by the Pope a self-fulling prophecy!


BUT..what is odd to me is that Muslims seem to take what the Pope says WAY more seriously than Catholics!!!!
 

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
From today's Wall Street Journal....

Benedict the Brave
The pope said things Muslims need to hear about faith and reason.
September 19, 2006


It's a familiar spectacle: furious demands for an apology, threats, riots, violence. Anything can trigger so-called Muslim fury: a novel by a British-Indian writer, newspaper cartoons in a small Nordic country or, this past week, a talk on theology by the head of the Roman Catholic Church.

In a lecture on "Faith and Reason" at the University of Regensburg in Germany, Benedict XVI cited one of the last emperors of Byzantium, Manuel II Paleologus. Stressing the 14th-century emperor's "startling brusqueness," the pope quoted him as saying: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Taken alone, these are strong words. However, the pope didn't endorse the comment that he twice emphasized was not his own. No matter. As with Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses," which millions of outraged Muslims didn't bother to read (including Ayatollah Khomeini, who put the bounty on the novelist's life), what Benedict XVI meant or even said isn't the issue. Once again, many Muslim leaders are inciting their faithful against perceived slights and trying to proscribe how free societies discuss one of the world's major religions.

Several Iraqi terrorist groups called for attacks on the Vatican. A cleric linked to Somalia's ruling Islamist movement urged Muslims to "hunt down" and kill the pope. In an apparently linked attack Sunday in Mogadishu, a nun was gunned down in a children's hospital. Pakistan's parliament unanimously adopted a resolution condemning the pontiff and demanding an apology.

Under pressure and no doubt to stop any further violence, the pope on Sunday did so. "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address . . . which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," he told pilgrims at his Castelgandolfo summer residence. The quote doesn't "in any way express my personal thought. I hope this serves to appease hearts."

It was a gracious gesture on the pope's part, especially because his original argument deserves to be heard, not least by Muslims. The offending quotation was a small part in a chain of argument that led to his main thesis about the close relationship between reason and belief.

Without the right balance between the two, the pontiff said, mankind is condemned to the "pathologies and life-threatening diseases associated with religion and reason"--in short, political and religious fanaticism.

In Christianity, God is inseparable from reason. "In the beginning was the Word," the pope quotes from the Gospel according to John. "God acts with logos. Logos means both reason and word," he explained. "The inner rapprochement between Biblical faith and Greek philosophical inquiry was an event of decisive importance not only from the standpoint of history of religions, but also from that of world history. . . . This convergence, with the subsequent addition of the Roman heritage, created Europe."

The question raised by the pope is whether this convergence has taken place in Islam as well. He quotes the Lebanese Catholic theologist Theodore Khoury, who said that "for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent, his will is not bound up with any of our categories." If this is true, can there be dialogue at all between Islam and the West? For the pope, the precondition for any meaningful interfaith discussions is a religion tempered by reason: "It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures," he concluded.

This is not an invitation to the usual feel-good interfaith round-tables. It is a request for dialogue with one condition--that everyone at the table reject the irrationality of religiously motivated violence. The pope isn't condemning Islam; he is inviting it to join rather than reject the modern world.

By their reaction to the pope's speech, some Muslim leaders showed again that Islam has a problem with modernity that is going to have to be solved by a debate within Islam. The day Muslims condemn Islamic terror with the same vehemence they condemn those who criticize Islam, an attempt at dialogue--and at improving relations between the Western and Islamic worlds--can begin.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008963
 

Martin Jr.

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
BUT..what is odd to me is that Muslims seem to take what the Pope says WAY more seriously than Catholics!!!!


For Muslims they feel a threat to their way of life, in this case their use of violence.
For Catholics, we don't feel threatened by the pope's messages, he isn't going to make any proclamations that will change the Catholic religion.
Any time the pope has made any "infallible" decisions, they were already commonly believed throughout the church.
Some Catholics, like many others, would rather hang on to our bad habits, etc. than hear what the church teaches, but that is one of the faults of humans.
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
Most US catholics I have ment aren't exactly folks who listen to the pope on a day to day basis... I mean, lots of Catholics are out there practicing birth control and doing things tat the Pope would probaby frown upon..

I wonder how the catolics of Latin America and Africa view what the Pope says in general... Really have no clue about it personally.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Judith said:
When exactly are we just going to nuke the whole blood country ? ( you were all thinkin it I just had the balls to say it) I'm REALLY ticked over this latest one, are the muslim lovers getting any part of this? You and I are infideles, PERIOD. Until we have been enslaved or converted we are nothing.


Hmm, this latest rant brought to you by a woman with PMS and has not had her first coffee. After the bomber killing the Canadian Soldiers handing out candy yesterday. I am ready to go over there myself and just start randomly popping people.
Judith your thoughts mirror mine,after the news of our soldiers deaths yesterday :mad: :cry:
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
[The pope's speech is an embarrassment.
Where do you liberals find articles slanted so against the mainstream of Americans? I am sick of people calling good evil and evil good. Criticise the one that is doing wrong. MUSLIMS! Judith, pass the ammo.
 

Steve

Well-known member
R2:
I had been thinking myself that the remarks were deliberate -- a line in the sand

while many muslims seem to think the Pope words were offensive, I find it offensive the acts of many muslims....but I find damn few of them calling for a sensible dialog......
 

Martin Jr.

Well-known member
You can find the whole speech of Pope Benedict XVI by going to:
www.vatican.va
and then click on english,: Munchen, Alotting, Resenburg,: then speeches,: 2006,: September,: scroll down to "Meeting with the representatives of Science in the Aula Magna of the University of
Regensburg" Sept. 12, 2006
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
I do think that quoting a "brash" and confrontational medieval emperor was unfortunate. Have you read the pope's entire speech RR??
If the pope is brash, so what? It's a comment, a statement. No one died, no one got hurt, etc. The muslims are killing people, blowing up buildings , burning churches. How would you feel if some muslim made a brash statement and Christians blew up mosques in this country and shot women in burkas ? You liberals (of which you of course are my favorite :wink: ) would be wetting your pants and squeeling like a pig caught under a gate! Use your head. It's not about the Popes statement.
I havn't read the entire article , nor do I need to to get this in the proper perspective.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
Red Robin said:
reader (the Second) said:
I do think that quoting a "brash" and confrontational medieval emperor was unfortunate. Have you read the pope's entire speech RR??
If the pope is brash, so what? It's a comment, a statement. No one died, no one got hurt, etc. The muslims are killing people, blowing up buildings , burning churches. How would you feel if some muslim made a brash statement and Christians blew up mosques in this country and shot women in burkas ? You liberals (of which you of course are my favorite :wink: ) would be wetting your pants and squeeling like a pig caught under a gate! Use your head. It's not about the Popes statement.
I havn't read the entire article , nor do I need to to get this in the proper perspective.

Go read the pope's entire speech. He used the word "brash" to describe the Byzantine Emperor's words that he quoted. :roll: :roll: :roll:

I was not using the word "brash" to describe the pope's speech...

You insult me and yourself with such a silly response and poor reading of my post and lack of having read or understood the pope's actual speech.
Let me rephrase that . If the emperor was brash , so what? It's words reader. No one is getting shot. My comments might very well be silly, probably are but my reasoning is dead on. How about yours?
 
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