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The right to know at what cost

Do consumers have a right to know where exactly?

  • Yes, and the beef industry should flip the bill

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, the government should flip the bill

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, if the consumers pay for it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No all they need to know is what country it originated

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Tam

Well-known member
All we hear about is how the US consumers have a right to know where their beef comes from as in Country of Origin. So I ask you if the consumer demanded to know exactly where that beef came from, as in where in the US was it born, how many of you would allow them to know?
 

Mike

Well-known member
So I ask you if the consumer demanded to know exactly where that beef came from, as in where in the US was it born, how many of you would allow them to know?

There must be a large number of people source verifying now that are allowing it because I read just recently (can't remember where) that the U.S. has more source verified cattle on the market than Canada does.
(Due to the larger number of cattle in the U.S.)


The market would sort them out if M'COOL became a reality and those that refused to allow it would be left holding the bag. My 2 cents.
 

Tommy

Well-known member
Tam...So I ask you if the consumer demanded to know exactly where that beef came from, as in where in the US was it born, how many of you would allow them to know?

I would certainly want them to know if it were my beef Tam. Are you afraid of them knowing if it is yours???
 

mrj

Well-known member
Tam, we do want valid source verification, though we realize that carries with it responsibility and probably will require stringent documentation as to EVERYTHING one does to manage their cattle.

That requirement and the time and costs of the paperwork to record the information seem daunting. I feel that the people willing to do that must be paid commensurate with our efforts.

I realize that when everyone is required to do the same thing, there may be difficulty in recovering our expenses for such records, and hopefully, there will be rewards for the changing the quality and style of our cattle keeping such records will enable us to achieve. Some producers will be enabled to fill various better paying niche markets with differing types of cattle by using the information such records provide to them. Others will stay in the 'commodity cattle' markets. And bellyache and blame others over that fact!!!!

MRJ
 

Tam

Well-known member
Tommy said:
Tam...So I ask you if the consumer demanded to know exactly where that beef came from, as in where in the US was it born, how many of you would allow them to know?

I would certainly want them to know if it were my beef Tam. Are you afraid of them knowing if it is yours???

Tommy did you forget that every animal that leaves the ranch where it was born in Canada has to be tagged so it can be traced back to that ranch if need be? Are yours tagged so the packer can find you if something is wrong with the beef you sell him?
 

Tam

Well-known member
MRJ said:
Tam, we do want valid source verification, though we realize that carries with it responsibility and probably will require stringent documentation as to EVERYTHING one does to manage their cattle.

That requirement and the time and costs of the paperwork to record the information seem daunting. I feel that the people willing to do that must be paid commensurate with our efforts.

I realize that when everyone is required to do the same thing, there may be difficulty in recovering our expenses for such records, and hopefully, there will be rewards for the changing the quality and style of our cattle keeping such records will enable us to achieve. Some producers will be enabled to fill various better paying niche markets with differing types of cattle by using the information such records provide to them. Others will stay in the 'commodity cattle' markets. And bellyache and blame others over that fact!!!!

MRJ

MRJ, We are ALL required to do it in Canada at producer expence, it's Manditory!! We are also required to brand our cattle with a CAN if we want to export them. So why shouldn't you have to, to export your cattle and beef? Do you think it is fair that Canadian producers have to do the costly time consuming record keeping for our industry and then have to compete for markets against you that use the excuse you don't want to do it as you may not be compensated for your time and effort. As far as I know both our countries have herd disease problems and that source vertification system is there or at least should be there to protect everyone involved in the indusrty including the consumers both domestic and foreign. Volunitary will not work and if you think it will look at the US brand system. Alabama doesn't require it and guess what you couldn't find the birthplace of your BSE infect cow from that state. Volunitary ID will be no different if it is not Manditory you will have producers not doing it and if you have a BSE positive in one of those producers herds you again WILL NOT FIND THE BIRTH HERD. How many more US investigations do you think can end with no results before consumers will stop eating US beef all together for fear of what will happen if they eat it?? It is time to stop sitting on the fence and get moving on a manditory ID system that the industry can work with before that day comes and the world consumers of beef swear off US beef because you can't kind where you herd health problems originate. If you need some kind of compensation think of being able to sell your beef as compensation because there may come a day that you won't if you can't ID where your problems originate.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
MRJ said:
Tam, we do want valid source verification, though we realize that carries with it responsibility and probably will require stringent documentation as to EVERYTHING one does to manage their cattle.

That requirement and the time and costs of the paperwork to record the information seem daunting. I feel that the people willing to do that must be paid commensurate with our efforts.

I realize that when everyone is required to do the same thing, there may be difficulty in recovering our expenses for such records, and hopefully, there will be rewards for the changing the quality and style of our cattle keeping such records will enable us to achieve. Some producers will be enabled to fill various better paying niche markets with differing types of cattle by using the information such records provide to them. Others will stay in the 'commodity cattle' markets. And bellyache and blame others over that fact!!!!

MRJ

MRJ, We are ALL required to do it in Canada at producer expence, it's Manditory!!

So because the Canadian socialist government stuck it to all Canadian producers, and raped them without a kiss- you want the US to be force with M-ID too...Tam what a childish argument.....

We are also required to brand our cattle with a CAN if we want to export them. So why shouldn't you have to, to export your cattle and beef?

Your the ones screaming to ship down to here, not visa versa- I see no one forcing you to ship the the States---its our rules for coming in--- if you have problems with US cattle and US beef going into Canada - put a rule into effect to fit it (since you have experience with those trade barrier rules like Anaplas/Blutongue)....

Do you think it is fair that Canadian producers have to do the costly time consuming record keeping for our industry and then have to compete for markets against you that use the excuse you don't want to do it as you may not be compensated for your time and effort.

You didn't seem to mind for 10+ years sticking the US producer with a costly and time consuming trade barrier- the Anaplas/Bluetongue rule- that now that you are kissing hinny to get the border open you are so conveniently finding is "not needed"..

As far as I know both our countries have herd disease problems and that source vertification system is there or at least should be there to protect everyone involved in the indusrty including the consumers both domestic and foreign. Volunitary will not work and if you think it will look at the US brand system.

Mandatory COOL is needed now to protect the consumer and consumer confidence because of the bimonthly new Canadian mad cow- but you are fighting that..Are you another one of those against all mandatories- sometimes- unless they fit your agenda :wink: :lol:

Alabama doesn't require it and guess what you couldn't find the birthplace of your BSE infect cow from that state. Volunitary ID will be no different if it is not Manditory you will have producers not doing it and if you have a BSE positive in one of those producers herds you again WILL NOT FIND THE BIRTH HERD. How many more US investigations do you think can end with no results before consumers will stop eating US beef all together for fear of what will happen if they eat it?? It is time to stop sitting on the fence and get moving on a manditory ID system that the industry can work with before that day comes and the world consumers of beef swear off US beef because you can't kind where you herd health problems originate. If you need some kind of compensation think of being able to sell your beef as compensation because there may come a day that you won't if you can't ID where your problems originate.

Tam- maybe if your industry leaders hadn't had the government shove the Canadian ID program down your throats - you would be getting paid premiums if you tagged and verified --Now the packers don't have to pay you anything extra- they just wait til your government mandate says you have to do it- they get what they want- you get the shaft - Did you thank your industry leaders :wink:
And now like a spoiled little kid- since you got spanked you think big brother in the US should get spanked too... :???:
: :lol:

Wheres SH when you need him :lol: WHINE WHINE WHINE
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
OT: "Mandatory COOL is needed now to protect the consumer and consumer confidence because of the bimonthly new Canadian mad cow- but you are fighting that..Are you another one of those against all mandatories- sometimes- unless they fit your agenda "

Repeated like some mind numbed robot.

"M"COOL doesn't have a damn thing to do with traceback!!!! Only traceback will protect the consumer, not some unenforceable country of origin labeling law that segregates 5% of the US beef consumption as imported beef.

You hypocrites who wanted consumers to know where their beef comes from prohibited the means to enforce "M"COOL because you didn't want to be burdened with traceback, REMEMBER?

Without traceback, "M"COOL is unenforceable. "M"COOL is unenforceable. Say it with me, "M"COOL is unenforceable.

You suddenly going to trust the packers to label beef correctly without an enforceable system? WELL, ARE YOU? If not, how do you plan to enforce it without a traceback system? NOT YOUR PROBLEM RIGHT?

KEEP REPEATING THE "M"COOL CHANT LIKE A MINDLESS ROBOT, OVER AND OVER AND OVER but you still can't change the fact that "M"COOL, as written, is unenforceable because you hypocrites were not willing to do what it took to enforce the law that you feel is so necessary. Once again, your emotions over run your common sense and now you'll blame USDA for their inability to enforce the law that you made unenforceable. Any bets on that? If I have learned anything about blamers it's that they always find someone or something to blame.

What part of the word "UNENFORCEABLE" can't you get through your concrete head OT?


~SH~
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
1.So because the Canadian socialist government stuck it to all Canadian producers, and raped them without a kiss- you want the US to be force with M-ID too...Tam what a childish argument.....

2.Your the ones screaming to ship down to here, not visa versa- I see no one forcing you to ship the the States---its our rules for coming in--- if you have problems with US cattle and US beef going into Canada - put a rule into effect to fit it (since you have experience with those trade barrier rules like Anaplas/Blutongue)....

3.You didn't seem to mind for 10+ years sticking the US producer with a costly and time consuming trade barrier- the Anaplas/Bluetongue rule- that now that you are kissing hinny to get the border open you are so conveniently finding is "not needed"..

4.Mandatory COOL is needed now to protect the consumer and consumer confidence because of the bimonthly new Canadian mad cow- but you are fighting that..Are you another one of those against all mandatories- sometimes- unless they fit your agenda :wink: :lol:

5.Tam- maybe if your industry leaders hadn't had the government shove the Canadian ID program down your throats - you would be getting paid premiums if you tagged and verified --Now the packers don't have to pay you anything extra- they just wait til your government mandate says you have to do it- they get what they want- you get the shaft - Did you thank your industry leaders :wink:
And now like a spoiled little kid- since you got spanked you think big brother in the US should get spanked too... :???:
: :lol:

[/quote]

1. Our government never stuck us with anything or did you forget that the Canadian beef industry designed and implemented our M'ID system which I personally am thankful for as we were able to find our infect cow birth herds unlike another beef industry that will remain clueless I mean nameless. :wink:

2. The US producers are the ones screaming about exporting to Japan and Korea but when they told you NO SRM's did you listen. No that is why you aren't shipping beef into those countries. What I would like to know is what are you shipping in other country namely Canada that we don't know about. Maybe Anna, and blue as we are no long allowed to ask you to test for it even though other US States can demand it of each other.

3.you have been told MANY TIMES that our industry were working for 10+ years on our government to drop those restrictions but that just doesn't fit you agenda of blame does it Oldtimer :roll:

4. Will M'COOL tell you if the animal was born in ALABAMA OR TEXAS? Will M'COOL help find the next US BSE positives birth place. Or will the next one not matter where it originated either? When will the US consumer stop and think at least Canada is finding cases and know where there BSE originates and has a half a chance of protecting us from it? Unlike the US that has NO IDEA WHERE THEIR COMES FROM because their industry doesn't want to be burden with proving to anyone where their beef really comes from as they may have to take responibility for what they produced.

5. again you still don't get it OUR GOVERNMENT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH OUR M"ID SYSTEM, IT WAS INDUSTRY DESIGNED FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE INDUSTRY. Maybe if you had some Industry leaders with a bit of foresight like we had you would have had a system IN PLACE to find your BSE positive cow birth herds instead of ending your investigations with NO DEFINITIVE ANSWERS. No wonder R-CALF wants Definitive answers from Canada as they know they will never get any from the US because of R-CALF's lack of foresight and had M'ID prohibited from your flaud M'COOL.

I have to laugh everytime I read the US is the leaders in Beef production. The US has never been the leader. In Brands, you are over 100 years behind. Sask and Alberta had a central Brand registary in 1898 which made it eazier for someone to find out the legal owner of an animal as all they have to do is call ONE office in Regina and ask. Unlike Texas that has to call every county in that state to find out. And now with the M'ID the industry implemented a system that asists the CFIA find out the owner of every animal in CANADA with one phone call, if needed, unlike the great US that they have to search far and wide and still never know for sure. Age verifying cattle you still use the tenderness test we have age verify by birth date. Our feed bans, Canada saw fit to update them as more was learned about BSE did the US NO. Testing, Canada was doing the recommended testing and unfortunally finding BSE, was the US NO not until they were caught by their own government investigators. Canada was the first country to resume trade in beef after the discovery of BSE because our trading partners including JAPAN looked at our system and felt confident that we knew what we were doing. But are they taking US Beef? Great leaders in the Beef production if you were any further behind it would be funny. But as is it is just pathetic all claims and nothing to back those claims.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam, Canada can do what Canada wants. You make your own rules. It probably isn't smart to go with such concentrated markets as there is a big movement against that model.

You have shot yourself in the foot before though, so you are likely to do it again.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam- Is your middle name Faye :???: Your post this morning crying about Americans- and what Americans need to do reminded me of Tammy Faye Bakker- running makeup and all.... :wink: :lol:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Tam, MCOOL in the U.S. is a domestic issue, not one for you to have any input on.
Will you not be labeling some imported beef by default with your faulty M'COOL labeling?
And Please Tell us, why Canadians don't have a right to speak about M'COOL but you can stick you nose into every facet of our industry Econ. :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Econ101 said:
Tam, MCOOL in the U.S. is a domestic issue, not one for you to have any input on.
Will you not be labeling some imported beef by default with your faulty M'COOL labeling?
And Please Tell us, why Canadians don't have a right to speak about M'COOL but you can stick you nose into every facet of our industry Econ. :roll:

Nobody holding a gun to your head and saying you have to ship it to the US :roll: -- Lots of other countries you could ship to if you don't like the US's rules...Thats what Canadians told us down here for 10+ years about the Anaplas/Bluetongue rule.....
 

Tam

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Tam, Canada can do what Canada wants. You make your own rules. It probably isn't smart to go with such concentrated markets as there is a big movement against that model.

You have shot yourself in the foot before though, so you are likely to do it again.

Gee are you not sticking your nose into Canadian business here Econ keep you input to YOURSELF. :roll:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam- Is your middle name Faye :???: Your post this morning crying about Americans- and what Americans need to do reminded me of Tammy Faye Bakker- running makeup and all.... :wink: :lol:

In the words of guess who "When they start attacking you personally rather than attacking the facts, you know you have them by the short hairs as its a sign of desperation. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Tam- Is your middle name Faye :???: Your post this morning crying about Americans- and what Americans need to do reminded me of Tammy Faye Bakker- running makeup and all.... :wink: :lol:

In the words of guess who "When they start attacking you personally rather than attacking the facts, you know you have them by the short hairs as its a sign of desperation. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't think thats much of a personal attack- unless the shoe fits...

But neither your comments nor Tammy Fayes garnered any sympathy from me... But I did get a good laugh.. Whole crew got a chuckle this morning moving cows when I explained the post that made me late... :lol: :lol:

You allow Canadians to ship in a few cows/beef and pretty soon some of them think they have the right to tell us how to operate our country :roll: :( :mad:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
Econ101 said:
Tam, MCOOL in the U.S. is a domestic issue, not one for you to have any input on.
Will you not be labeling some imported beef by default with your faulty M'COOL labeling?
And Please Tell us, why Canadians don't have a right to speak about M'COOL but you can stick you nose into every facet of our industry Econ. :roll:

There is not a faulty MCOOL labeling. There is no MCOOL at all.

Are you not proud of the beef you produce?

I have said on more than one occasion if Canada does indeed produce good fat cattle they will be bought in the U.S. If your product is good, why aren't you proud of it?
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Tam- Is your middle name Faye :???: Your post this morning crying about Americans- and what Americans need to do reminded me of Tammy Faye Bakker- running makeup and all.... :wink: :lol:

In the words of guess who "When they start attacking you personally rather than attacking the facts, you know you have them by the short hairs as its a sign of desperation. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't think thats much of a personal attack- unless the shoe fits...

But neither your comments nor Tammy Fayes garnered any sympathy from me... But I did get a good laugh.. Whole crew got a chuckle this morning moving cows when I explained the post that made me late... :lol: :lol:

You allow Canadians to ship in a few cows/beef and pretty soon some of them think they have the right to tell us how to operate our country :roll: :( :mad:
Personal attacks are personal attacks and if you had anything to say besides your usual drival you would bring it. Your usual anna and blue argument proves you were getting in too deep and then the Tammy Faye comment put you in over your head. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
MRJ said:
Tam, we do want valid source verification, though we realize that carries with it responsibility and probably will require stringent documentation as to EVERYTHING one does to manage their cattle.

That requirement and the time and costs of the paperwork to record the information seem daunting. I feel that the people willing to do that must be paid commensurate with our efforts.

I realize that when everyone is required to do the same thing, there may be difficulty in recovering our expenses for such records, and hopefully, there will be rewards for the changing the quality and style of our cattle keeping such records will enable us to achieve. Some producers will be enabled to fill various better paying niche markets with differing types of cattle by using the information such records provide to them. Others will stay in the 'commodity cattle' markets. And bellyache and blame others over that fact!!!!

MRJ

MRJ, We are ALL required to do it in Canada at producer expence, it's Manditory!!

So because the Canadian socialist government stuck it to all Canadian producers, and raped them without a kiss- you want the US to be force with M-ID too...Tam what a childish argument.....

We are also required to brand our cattle with a CAN if we want to export them. So why shouldn't you have to, to export your cattle and beef?

Your the ones screaming to ship down to here, not visa versa- I see no one forcing you to ship the the States---its our rules for coming in--- if you have problems with US cattle and US beef going into Canada - put a rule into effect to fit it (since you have experience with those trade barrier rules like Anaplas/Blutongue)....

Do you think it is fair that Canadian producers have to do the costly time consuming record keeping for our industry and then have to compete for markets against you that use the excuse you don't want to do it as you may not be compensated for your time and effort.

You didn't seem to mind for 10+ years sticking the US producer with a costly and time consuming trade barrier- the Anaplas/Bluetongue rule- that now that you are kissing hinny to get the border open you are so conveniently finding is "not needed"..

As far as I know both our countries have herd disease problems and that source vertification system is there or at least should be there to protect everyone involved in the indusrty including the consumers both domestic and foreign. Volunitary will not work and if you think it will look at the US brand system.

Mandatory COOL is needed now to protect the consumer and consumer confidence because of the bimonthly new Canadian mad cow- but you are fighting that..Are you another one of those against all mandatories- sometimes- unless they fit your agenda :wink: :lol:

Alabama doesn't require it and guess what you couldn't find the birthplace of your BSE infect cow from that state. Volunitary ID will be no different if it is not Manditory you will have producers not doing it and if you have a BSE positive in one of those producers herds you again WILL NOT FIND THE BIRTH HERD. How many more US investigations do you think can end with no results before consumers will stop eating US beef all together for fear of what will happen if they eat it?? It is time to stop sitting on the fence and get moving on a manditory ID system that the industry can work with before that day comes and the world consumers of beef swear off US beef because you can't kind where you herd health problems originate. If you need some kind of compensation think of being able to sell your beef as compensation because there may come a day that you won't if you can't ID where your problems originate.

Tam- maybe if your industry leaders hadn't had the government shove the Canadian ID program down your throats - you would be getting paid premiums if you tagged and verified --Now the packers don't have to pay you anything extra- they just wait til your government mandate says you have to do it- they get what they want- you get the shaft - Did you thank your industry leaders :wink:
And now like a spoiled little kid- since you got spanked you think big brother in the US should get spanked too... :???:
: :lol:

Wheres SH when you need him :lol: WHINE WHINE WHINE

I answered you right here Tammy-- and nothing you posted changes my feelings on it ...Even tho your additional whining probably made more mascara run .....
 
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