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The Winners- and the Losers

A

Anonymous

Guest
..

Winners and Losers from a Fiscal-Cliff Deal
By Sophie Quinton | National Journal – 8 hrs ago...


Middle and lower-income taxpayers are the main beneficiaries of the fiscal-cliff deal, but there are other winners—and losers—of the last-minute scramble to avert scheduled tax increases and spending cuts. The gridlock leading up to the deal dimmed the country’s already dim view of Congress. Lawmakers aren’t going to get the grand deficit-reduction bargain they had hoped for. And although an economic crisis may have been averted, the final deal sets the stage for another debt-ceiling showdown.

Winners:

‘Middle-Class’ Taxpayers. With the Bush tax cuts set to extend for individuals making less than $400,000, middle- and upper-middle class taxpayers can breathe a sigh of relief. The Alternative Minimum Tax will be permanently lifted to reflect inflation, sparing close to 30 million taxpayers from a tax increase. The tax relief isn’t total, however: The payroll tax cut won’t be extended for another year, meaning that working Americans will see their paychecks reduced in 2013. But it could have been worse.

President Obama and Vice President Biden. President Obama made the fiscal cliff negotiations all about taxes, repeating the call for tax increases on the rich and tax cuts for the middle class that helped him win reelection. Although the final deal is less than the president had hoped for, he gets to say he kept his campaign promise to protect middle-class Americans. He also gets to renew key tax cuts passed as part of his 2009 stimulus package and to extend unemployment insurance. Meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden can revel in the crucial role he played in last-minute discussions with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The wily legislator who once pledged to block President Obama at every turn has proved, once again, to be a crucial deal-maker between the White House and Congress. Initially sidelined as negotiations focused on President Obama and Speaker John Boehner, McConnell stepped forward at the last minute to help craft legislation that Republicans could support.

AARP. Seniors—and the lobbyists who represent them—won’t be feeling the pain of entitlement cuts come January, despite initial insistence from Republican lawmakers that significant cuts to Medicare or Social Security be part of a fiscal cliff deal. The battle to prevent a switch to chained CPI, a metric that would reduce the growth of Social Security payments, has been won, at least for now.

Losers:

Deficit Hawks. Going over the fiscal cliff would have significantly reduced the deficit, combining cuts to domestic and military spending with tax hikes on pretty much everyone. The last-minute deal reached by Washington negotiators lifted taxes on the wealthiest Americans and didn’t do anything to cut spending.

Speaker Boehner’s Plan B. Speaker Boehner’s attempt to rally his caucus behind an alternate cliff deal, dubbed "Plan B," failed miserably: a bad sign of the Ohio Republican’s ability to put forward an alternative that his caucus could take seriously. Boehner’s plan included too many tax increases and not enough spending cuts for Republicans to stomach—and it seemed to temporarily stall negotiations.

The U.S. Treasury. The United States hit its borrowing limit on Monday, and lawmakers failed to include raising the limit as part of the cliff deal. The Treasury Department will enact what it calls “extraordinary measures” to avoid a government default, but it can only protect the nation’s credit for so long. Stay tuned in the coming months for another Washington fight over whether, and how, to raise the debt ceiling.

The 1 Percent. Wealthy Americans who make their money from investments, rather than paychecks, were losers in the fiscal-cliff deal. In addition to higher income taxes, those who make above $400,000 will now be subject to a 20 percent tax rate on their capital gains and dividends. The fiscal cliff wasn’t all bad news for the wealthy, however: They can still bequeath up to $5 million tax-free, with any additional money taxed at 40 percent. That’s greater than the current 35 percent estate tax rate, but less than the 55 percent rate on assets over $1 million that would have gone into effect without a deal.

Holiday Cheer. From senators who had to fly back to Washington two days after Christmas to Hill staffers who canceled New Year's Eve plans in anticipation of a late night hammering out a deal, the fiscal-cliff negotiations cast a pall over the holiday season. And it wasn’t just Washington: Americans spent the holidays wringing their hands over pending tax increases.

All in all- I'm glad they got an agreement- as it may give consumers and the public a little bit of confidence that the country has a future and will not just implode because of partisan politics...

And that appears to be showing up on Wallstreet with the markets taking a big jump....
 

Mike

Well-known member
If you think that kicking the can down the road is winning, then so be it.

There must be some spending cuts at some point. This so-called "Win" spends another 4 $TRILLION$ to add to the deficit.

A 20 Trillion deficit is unsustainable by anyone's standards. Your Grandkids are crying................................................

If you think that the Dow is an actual economic indicator with all the money the Fed is pumping in to it, you are much more stupid than I thought.
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Read OT's "Winners" really close :D

The payroll tax cut won’t be extended for another year, meaning that working Americans will see their paychecks reduced in 2013. But it could have been worse.

There were no winners. They gotta quit spending money worthlessly. They gotta quit taking away the ability of the working class to prosper.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
backhoeboogie said:
Read OT's "Winners" really close :D

The payroll tax cut won’t be extended for another year, meaning that working Americans will see their paychecks reduced in 2013. But it could have been worse.

There were no winners. They gotta quit spending money worthlessly. They gotta quit taking away the ability of the working class to prosper.

Yep, which means less disposable income, meaning less consumer spending. A drag on the GDP by about 0.6%
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
In 28 seconds, Bloomberg TV's Scarlet Fu explains who really benefits from the 'deal' and Bernanke's ongoing 'wealth effect' policy. Simply put, taxes on 77% of Americans go up... and 20% benefit. "Fair-and-balanced" indeed.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-02/fair-and-balanced-and-benefitting-just-20-americans
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yep-- and when the party of NO can say yes- and work bipartisanly-- the Stock market jumps 310 points (2-3%) in a day....

But we don't want to see that become a habit-- because it might mean the economy would recover under Obama/a Dem... :roll: :(
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Yep-- and when the party of NO can say yes- and work bipartisanly-- the Stock market jumps 310 points (2-3%) in a day....

But we don't want to see that become a habit-- because it might mean the economy would recover under Obama/a Dem... :roll: :(



So the Rich liked the deal, did they?

And got richer today, because of the TOPDawgs deal.

Good for them, they probably just made up their new tax increase.

Oh, andd by the way, stocks were up before the deal was announced. Insider trading, by congressman and their "rich" buddies?


If the governmnet would stay out of the market, and deciding winners and losers, the "rich" wouldn't be so wealthy.
 

gmacbeef

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
..

Winners and Losers from a Fiscal-Cliff Deal
By Sophie Quinton | National Journal – 8 hrs ago...


Middle and lower-income taxpayers are the main beneficiaries of the fiscal-cliff deal, but there are other winners—and losers—of the last-minute scramble to avert scheduled tax increases and spending cuts. The gridlock leading up to the deal dimmed the country’s already dim view of Congress. Lawmakers aren’t going to get the grand deficit-reduction bargain they had hoped for. And although an economic crisis may have been averted, the final deal sets the stage for another debt-ceiling showdown.

Winners:

‘Middle-Class’ Taxpayers. With the Bush tax cuts set to extend for individuals making less than $400,000, middle- and upper-middle class taxpayers can breathe a sigh of relief. The Alternative Minimum Tax will be permanently lifted to reflect inflation, sparing close to 30 million taxpayers from a tax increase. The tax relief isn’t total, however: The payroll tax cut won’t be extended for another year, meaning that working Americans will see their paychecks reduced in 2013. But it could have been worse.

President Obama and Vice President Biden. President Obama made the fiscal cliff negotiations all about taxes, repeating the call for tax increases on the rich and tax cuts for the middle class that helped him win reelection. Although the final deal is less than the president had hoped for, he gets to say he kept his campaign promise to protect middle-class Americans. He also gets to renew key tax cuts passed as part of his 2009 stimulus package and to extend unemployment insurance. Meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden can revel in the crucial role he played in last-minute discussions with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The wily legislator who once pledged to block President Obama at every turn has proved, once again, to be a crucial deal-maker between the White House and Congress. Initially sidelined as negotiations focused on President Obama and Speaker John Boehner, McConnell stepped forward at the last minute to help craft legislation that Republicans could support.

AARP. Seniors—and the lobbyists who represent them—won’t be feeling the pain of entitlement cuts come January, despite initial insistence from Republican lawmakers that significant cuts to Medicare or Social Security be part of a fiscal cliff deal. The battle to prevent a switch to chained CPI, a metric that would reduce the growth of Social Security payments, has been won, at least for now.

Losers:

Deficit Hawks. Going over the fiscal cliff would have significantly reduced the deficit, combining cuts to domestic and military spending with tax hikes on pretty much everyone. The last-minute deal reached by Washington negotiators lifted taxes on the wealthiest Americans and didn’t do anything to cut spending.

Speaker Boehner’s Plan B. Speaker Boehner’s attempt to rally his caucus behind an alternate cliff deal, dubbed "Plan B," failed miserably: a bad sign of the Ohio Republican’s ability to put forward an alternative that his caucus could take seriously. Boehner’s plan included too many tax increases and not enough spending cuts for Republicans to stomach—and it seemed to temporarily stall negotiations.

The U.S. Treasury. The United States hit its borrowing limit on Monday, and lawmakers failed to include raising the limit as part of the cliff deal. The Treasury Department will enact what it calls “extraordinary measures” to avoid a government default, but it can only protect the nation’s credit for so long. Stay tuned in the coming months for another Washington fight over whether, and how, to raise the debt ceiling.

The 1 Percent. Wealthy Americans who make their money from investments, rather than paychecks, were losers in the fiscal-cliff deal. In addition to higher income taxes, those who make above $400,000 will now be subject to a 20 percent tax rate on their capital gains and dividends. The fiscal cliff wasn’t all bad news for the wealthy, however: They can still bequeath up to $5 million tax-free, with any additional money taxed at 40 percent. That’s greater than the current 35 percent estate tax rate, but less than the 55 percent rate on assets over $1 million that would have gone into effect without a deal.

Holiday Cheer. From senators who had to fly back to Washington two days after Christmas to Hill staffers who canceled New Year's Eve plans in anticipation of a late night hammering out a deal, the fiscal-cliff negotiations cast a pall over the holiday season. And it wasn’t just Washington: Americans spent the holidays wringing their hands over pending tax increases.

All in all- I'm glad they got an agreement- as it may give consumers and the public a little bit of confidence that the country has a future and will not just implode because of partisan politics...

And that appears to be showing up on Wallstreet with the markets taking a big jump....

The fact that you continue to try & pass yourself off as a "old republican " or Libertarian is LUDICROUS !! You think plunging the country even deeper in debt is a good deal ? Only a blue blood ,ignorant liberal Democrat thinks like that.
 

gmacbeef

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Yep-- and when the party of NO can say yes- and work bipartisanly-- the Stock market jumps 310 points (2-3%) in a day....

But we don't want to see that become a habit-- because it might mean the economy would recover under Obama/a Dem... :roll: :(

Please explain to us how much ,if at all, this benefits poor,lower middle, & middle class Americans ? The RICH just got richer! The stock mkt. rising a little will not make the Economy recover. :?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
gmacbeef said:
Oldtimer said:
..

Winners and Losers from a Fiscal-Cliff Deal
By Sophie Quinton | National Journal – 8 hrs ago...


Middle and lower-income taxpayers are the main beneficiaries of the fiscal-cliff deal, but there are other winners—and losers—of the last-minute scramble to avert scheduled tax increases and spending cuts. The gridlock leading up to the deal dimmed the country’s already dim view of Congress. Lawmakers aren’t going to get the grand deficit-reduction bargain they had hoped for. And although an economic crisis may have been averted, the final deal sets the stage for another debt-ceiling showdown.

Winners:

‘Middle-Class’ Taxpayers. With the Bush tax cuts set to extend for individuals making less than $400,000, middle- and upper-middle class taxpayers can breathe a sigh of relief. The Alternative Minimum Tax will be permanently lifted to reflect inflation, sparing close to 30 million taxpayers from a tax increase. The tax relief isn’t total, however: The payroll tax cut won’t be extended for another year, meaning that working Americans will see their paychecks reduced in 2013. But it could have been worse.

President Obama and Vice President Biden. President Obama made the fiscal cliff negotiations all about taxes, repeating the call for tax increases on the rich and tax cuts for the middle class that helped him win reelection. Although the final deal is less than the president had hoped for, he gets to say he kept his campaign promise to protect middle-class Americans. He also gets to renew key tax cuts passed as part of his 2009 stimulus package and to extend unemployment insurance. Meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden can revel in the crucial role he played in last-minute discussions with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The wily legislator who once pledged to block President Obama at every turn has proved, once again, to be a crucial deal-maker between the White House and Congress. Initially sidelined as negotiations focused on President Obama and Speaker John Boehner, McConnell stepped forward at the last minute to help craft legislation that Republicans could support.

AARP. Seniors—and the lobbyists who represent them—won’t be feeling the pain of entitlement cuts come January, despite initial insistence from Republican lawmakers that significant cuts to Medicare or Social Security be part of a fiscal cliff deal. The battle to prevent a switch to chained CPI, a metric that would reduce the growth of Social Security payments, has been won, at least for now.

Losers:

Deficit Hawks. Going over the fiscal cliff would have significantly reduced the deficit, combining cuts to domestic and military spending with tax hikes on pretty much everyone. The last-minute deal reached by Washington negotiators lifted taxes on the wealthiest Americans and didn’t do anything to cut spending.

Speaker Boehner’s Plan B. Speaker Boehner’s attempt to rally his caucus behind an alternate cliff deal, dubbed "Plan B," failed miserably: a bad sign of the Ohio Republican’s ability to put forward an alternative that his caucus could take seriously. Boehner’s plan included too many tax increases and not enough spending cuts for Republicans to stomach—and it seemed to temporarily stall negotiations.

The U.S. Treasury. The United States hit its borrowing limit on Monday, and lawmakers failed to include raising the limit as part of the cliff deal. The Treasury Department will enact what it calls “extraordinary measures” to avoid a government default, but it can only protect the nation’s credit for so long. Stay tuned in the coming months for another Washington fight over whether, and how, to raise the debt ceiling.

The 1 Percent. Wealthy Americans who make their money from investments, rather than paychecks, were losers in the fiscal-cliff deal. In addition to higher income taxes, those who make above $400,000 will now be subject to a 20 percent tax rate on their capital gains and dividends. The fiscal cliff wasn’t all bad news for the wealthy, however: They can still bequeath up to $5 million tax-free, with any additional money taxed at 40 percent. That’s greater than the current 35 percent estate tax rate, but less than the 55 percent rate on assets over $1 million that would have gone into effect without a deal.

Holiday Cheer. From senators who had to fly back to Washington two days after Christmas to Hill staffers who canceled New Year's Eve plans in anticipation of a late night hammering out a deal, the fiscal-cliff negotiations cast a pall over the holiday season. And it wasn’t just Washington: Americans spent the holidays wringing their hands over pending tax increases.

All in all- I'm glad they got an agreement- as it may give consumers and the public a little bit of confidence that the country has a future and will not just implode because of partisan politics...

And that appears to be showing up on Wallstreet with the markets taking a big jump....

The fact that you continue to try & pass yourself off as a "old republican " or Libertarian is LUDICROUS !! You think plunging the country even deeper in debt is a good deal ? Only a blue blood ,ignorant liberal Democrat thinks like that.

Didn't you backslap GW as he built up $5 Trillion of this debt...

I think we need some major changes- BUT while I believe we need to change the direction we are riding-- I don't believe in shooting the horse in the head too....

Like I said- unlike the current Repubs/Bush backers that have been charging everything to our kids and grandkids-- I believe we need to start paying more of the bill as we go-- which will take both cutbacks and increased income.....
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
gmacbeef said:
Oldtimer said:
All in all- I'm glad they got an agreement- as it may give consumers and the public a little bit of confidence that the country has a future and will not just implode because of partisan politics...

And that appears to be showing up on Wallstreet with the markets taking a big jump....

The fact that you continue to try & pass yourself off as a "old republican " or Libertarian is LUDICROUS !! You think plunging the country even deeper in debt is a good deal ? Only a blue blood ,ignorant liberal Democrat thinks like that.

Didn't you backslap GW as he built up $5 Trillion of this debt...

I think we need some major changes- BUT while I believe we need to change the direction we are riding-- I don't believe in shooting the horse in the head too....

Like I said- unlike the current Repubs/Bush backers that have been charging everything to our kids and grandkids-- I believe we need to start paying more of the bill as we go-- which will take both cutbacks and increased income.....



:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
gmacbeef said:
The fact that you continue to try & pass yourself off as a "old republican " or Libertarian is LUDICROUS !! You think plunging the country even deeper in debt is a good deal ? Only a blue blood ,ignorant liberal Democrat thinks like that.

Didn't you backslap GW as he built up $5 Trillion of this debt...

I think we need some major changes- BUT while I believe we need to change the direction we are riding-- I don't believe in shooting the horse in the head too....

Like I said- unlike the current Repubs/Bush backers that have been charging everything to our kids and grandkids-- I believe we need to start paying more of the bill as we go-- which will take both cutbacks and increased income.....



:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:

Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Didn't you backslap GW as he built up $5 Trillion of this debt...

I think we need some major changes- BUT while I believe we need to change the direction we are riding-- I don't believe in shooting the horse in the head too....

Like I said- unlike the current Repubs/Bush backers that have been charging everything to our kids and grandkids-- I believe we need to start paying more of the bill as we go-- which will take both cutbacks and increased income.....



:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:

Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...

But it's OK for Obama to double up on GW's spending?

Weren't you the one that just said that Wall Street made money last night?
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...

Oldtimer, it is too bad nobody nobody else besides you spoke up back then, because if even one or two more people would have, the whole fiasco could have been prevented. :roll: You must take into consideration that none of the rest of us are nearly as smart as you.

Please let this sink in......at the time the bill to bail out banks and Wall Street was passed, on October 3, 2008, both Houses of Congress were controlled by your cultist idols consisting of the Democrat Party. Yes, regretfully President Bush did sign the bill into law, but even if he hadn't have signed it, the Democrat Congress would have gotten the bill passed.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:

Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...

But it's OK for Obama to double up on GW's spending?

Weren't you the one that just said that Wall Street made money last night?

Nope-- but much of the Obama spending came about to try and get the economy back on the right track after the Bush Bust... Ain't right--but many economists say it was a necessity... Not sure if they are right- but GW's level of screw-ups put us into uncharted lands that hadn't been seen since the Hoover days....

And don't you realize that much of that Wall Street earnings is what goes back into a lot of folks retirement accounts, 401K's, investment earnings they live off from, etc...

Haven't you planned ahead Big Muddy and invested into some retirement accounts?
 

Hereford76

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Didn't you backslap GW as he built up $5 Trillion of this debt...

I think we need some major changes- BUT while I believe we need to change the direction we are riding-- I don't believe in shooting the horse in the head too....

Like I said- unlike the current Repubs/Bush backers that have been charging everything to our kids and grandkids-- I believe we need to start paying more of the bill as we go-- which will take both cutbacks and increased income.....



:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:

Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...

wow
 

TSR

Well-known member
I can still see Pres. Bush on national tv saying we must pass this bailout,while about a month earlier he was saying everything was all right, the economy was on sound footing. No doubt he was a good ol boy.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Didn't you backslap GW as he built up $5 Trillion of this debt...

I think we need some major changes- BUT while I believe we need to change the direction we are riding-- I don't believe in shooting the horse in the head too....

Like I said- unlike the current Repubs/Bush backers that have been charging everything to our kids and grandkids-- I believe we need to start paying more of the bill as we go-- which will take both cutbacks and increased income.....



:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:

Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...

Talk about breaking your arm patting yourself on the back...
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
:roll: I'm just speechless :roll:

Yep-- and that is part of the problem....You were the same when your cultist leader GW built up $5 Trillion dollars worth of unpaid for debt during his invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq-- along with a Trillion $ or so more to bail out the banks and wallstreet Fatcats....
Too bad nobody else besides me spoke up back then...

Talk about breaking your arm patting yourself on the back...

The formula that made this work was the long arm of the law and a very big back. :wink:
 

alice

Well-known member
TSR said:
I can still see Pres. Bush on national tv saying we must pass this bailout,while about a month earlier he was saying everything was all right, the economy was on sound footing. No doubt he was a good ol boy.

Yep...and he continues to revel in his good ol boy status. And he gets away with it!!!!!
 
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