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Steve said:
Taking the verse without the entire context of the chapter and the entire book is a dificult way to read the Bible....
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Maybe I'm not being clear.
Trying again. :)

No one is disagreeing about what Christ was ultimately getting at. Ie, I am the Way.

The point in contention is that He says it is "harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle." following right on the heels where he cautions about those who "trust in riches". Ie, the love of money as Soapweed just said.

But by His phrase about camels and needles, I take that to mean Christ is concerned wealthy people are more likely to lose sight of where their trust *should* be.

Afterall, He also asked the fishermen to give up their nets to follow him. Ie, they gave up their livlihoods.
 
I take that to mean Christ is concerned wealthy people are more likely to lose sight of where their trust *should* be.
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While I agree, without the rest of the chapter it would be easy to say wealth is the problem,,,,BUT,,, Jesus also rebukes the desciples who gave up every thing. saying that even that was not enough..so one with out the other would just make one go down the wrong path.....

Giving up your wealth only makes you poor. not a better Christian.....
 
The reason I bring up Interest and investing is because that is basically a way of taking money from others without doing any work. That means there is somebody working without getting paid somewhere.
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Maybe if you took a few economic classes you could understand investment risk, other economic benifits ect.

but let me propose an idea...

if I wanted to buy a ranch.....I would need cash......and lots of it.....

so I would borrow the cash....but, without interest there would be no incentive for a person to loan me the cash....so my dream to ranch would be just that a dream....

then while I am sitting there with no cash, (because you wiped out interest) and no ranch, .....the person with the cash came along saw the opertunity and bought the ranch......and hired me to work it......

now he is getting the profit to himself, and still doing no work....

and I am just the same off, if not worse as me dream is now gone,,,in turn I become disallusioned, sad and maybe even bitter.........as my dream is gone, I just get old...with nothing to show for it.....

why because the banker had no incentive to loan me the cash....but had incentive to hire me to run his newly aquired ranch.......

in your world he gets the ranch, the profit, and still does not work....

in my world, I get the ranch, pay the loan off, get the profit, then when I am old, I hire some other hired hand to run my ranch, while I ride my horses, and sip tea on the porch....watching the sunset with my grandchildren....

(now I can go back to ignoring you) .......
 
without the rest of the chapter it would be easy to say wealth is the problem

Not really, since He says the trust in wealth is the problem. Or "love of money" as soapweed had put it.
If you don't have much, it's hard to trust it...
 
If you don't have much, it's hard to trust it...
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very true....

Without the rest of the chapter it would be easy to say wealth is the problem
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Not really, since He says the trust in wealth is the problem.
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seems we have gone full circle on this.....back to the original problem...where stevC claimed that money was the problem.and offered a portion of a verse to back up his claim ......and I disagreed.....

A person can have wealth, and it does not prevent him from being a good Christian......he may be a good steward....
 
stevec said:
Steve said:
in my world, I get the ranch, pay the loan off, get the profit, then when I am old, I hire some other hired hand to run my ranch, while I ride my horses, and sip tea on the porch....watching the sunset with my grandchildren.....
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Well, I think you just answered your question about why Christ expects you to be poor and serve Him. You are content with serving yourself. It is your life plan.

Kinda like a pharoah, but on a smaller scale.
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Huh??? "watching the sunset with my grandchildren" isn't Christian enough for you? Did you somehow see this as a complete life activity list?
 
in my world, I get the ranch, pay the loan off, get the profit, then when I am old, I hire some other hired hand to run my ranch, while I ride my horses, and sip tea on the porch....watching the sunset with my grandchildren.....
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seemed better then working for some one else and dieing a lonely old bitter athiest.......
 
Steve
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_______________________________
disclaimer:this post is not meant to offend oversensitive middle aged liberal women and if it does, who cares
 
The Hired Man's Wife:
Uh Steve... You might want to remember how many ranchers are actually working for someone else.
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in the context of crushed dreams because of stupid idolistic religious plans put forth by liberal northeastern wacko,,,as portrayed in my example.....I would think that few would mis-construe the "context"......it was said towards..

If given a "opportunity" to own the operation your Husband now runs,... to most would be a dream......to have the dream crushed by a misguided religious zealot's economic plan, would that not leave a bitter taste in most? I am sure your children and even your grandchildren would like to live in a world were there is opportunity for all, not just those with money....

But that is the problem when a statement (or scripture) is take out of context.........it changes how it was said and the intent of what it said.....


and further reading for StevC
we are all given opportunity,......... to squander that is against GOD......

further reading:
St Matthew chapter 25 verse 14 - 30

"It is unfortunate that this is called the parable of the talents because we think of spiritual gifts when we hear the word "talents," but talents were just money. This is talking about money and responsibility in a general sense.,..
Talent = 6,000 days wages. About $250,000 in modern terms at minimum wage."

for I will not be "Kinda like a pharoah, but on a smaller scale.",....... I will be more like the "five talent slave",.....as my heart is not hardened agaist GOD, and I will take the blessings GOD gave me and use them to thier fullest......
lesson points.
# Both the opportunity to work and be rewarded is a testimony to the grace of God.
# There is a danger of hoarding that which God wants me to invest for eternal priorities.


all the while you are taking a verse out of context, judgeing others, and squandering the talents given to you......why?
 
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My question is this if SteveC is so annoying even though his conversation skills makes one think he is an educated man why do all of you seem to have to reply to him? However I didn't realize this was a religious forum. :?
 
stevec said:
zephyrus31 said:
Las Vegas. Kidding.

It's $$$, right?
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No, it's not money. But close.

http://www.behappyandfree.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=39
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Wow, and I thought Vegas was the psychologically (and financially) draining crackhouse...

...but SteveC, "step into the daylight of a new world order?" That's all too familiar; the dollar bill's Masonic 'tagline..' :eek: :!:
 

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