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This is both sickening and terrifying.

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Liberty Belle

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Now we have a little insight into why Obama said to not jump to conclusions about Nidal Hasan and why Congressmen were not briefed before the press leak.

This murdering Muslim Terrorist who killed and wounded the soldiers and civilians at Ft Hood, Texas was an advisor to Obama's Homeland Security team. Look on page 29 of the Homeland Security Institute link below.

I wonder how many more skeletons there are to come to of the cupboard. Who else is there in the government or its numerous advisors or Czars that will harm our country and citizens?

http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/old/PTTF_ProceedingsReport_05.19.09.pdf

Go to page number 29, scroll down toward the middle on the left column

The world needs to know who Obama really is.
 
Thinking Anew—Security Priorities for the Next Administration
PROCEEDINGS REPORT OF THE HSPI PRESIDENTIAL TRANSITION TASK FORCE April 2008-January 2009

Notice that the dates of this task force were prior to Obama becoming president...
 
Twotimer said:
Thinking Anew—Security Priorities for the Next Administration
PROCEEDINGS REPORT OF THE HSPI PRESIDENTIAL TRANSITION TASK FORCE April 2008-January 2009

Notice that the dates of this task force were prior to Obama becoming president...

Dayum! I'm glad you pointed that little discrepancy out...that would have been during the Bush administration, now wouldn't it...

Alice
 
The Homeland Security Policy Institute
Presidential Transition Task Force*

Initiated by HSPI's Steering Committee in Spring 2008, the Task Force sought to
further policy discussions of the top strategic priorities in the area of security in order to generate actionable recommendations, for the Administration taking office in January 2009, designed to effectively meet the most vexing challenges the United States faces today.

I realize some would like to blame this terrorist attack on Bush, but what is important is whether Obama took the advice of advisors and panels such as this, to further protect the country.

Was political correctness more important than National Security?

What if anything did Hasan learn at this gathering would have helped him with the terrorist act he committed? Should he have been present?
 
alice said:
Twotimer said:
Thinking Anew—Security Priorities for the Next Administration
PROCEEDINGS REPORT OF THE HSPI PRESIDENTIAL TRANSITION TASK FORCE April 2008-January 2009

Notice that the dates of this task force were prior to Obama becoming president...

Dayum! I'm glad you pointed that little discrepancy out...that would have been during the Bush administration, now wouldn't it...

Alice

Did you happen to notice this from the report?

Thinking Anew—Security Priorities for the Next Administration

The Homeland Security Policy Institute
Presidential Transition Task Force*
Initiated by HSPI's Steering Committee in Spring 2008, the Task Force sought to further policy discussions of the top strategic priorities in the area of security in order to generate actionable recommendations, for the Administration taking office in January 2009, designed to effectively meet the most vexing challenges the United States faces today.

This was NOT a government document put together by the Bush administration. It was compiled by the George Washington University Homeland Security Policy Institute specifically for "the Next Administration" - THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

I would remind you that, although Hasar should have been drummed out of the military during the Bush administration because he was an obvious nut-case, it was Obama's administration that promoted Hasar to Major and moved him to Fort Hood even though they knew of his association with, and admiration for, known Islamic terrorists and suicide bombers.

And now Obama and Holder are bringing the Muslim terrorists that caused the deaths of thousands of Americans when they brought down the World Trade Center to New York City and awarding these murderers all the rights of American citizens.

Is this the Hope and Change you voted for?
 
Gotcha. This was put together by the George Washington University. Not by either administration. Certainly not by the Obama administration because they were not yet elected and had their hands full with campaigning.

Who chose the panelists and participants? Who chose Nidal Hassan to attend? Seems to me like the answer to that would be the U.S. military under the Bush administration. Does that make the U.S. military terrorist supporters? Does it make the Bush administration terrorist supporters? Is that what you are arguing? I disagree. Someone in the military chose Hassan but that does not make them a terrorist supporter. Are you bad mouthing the military?
 
hypocritexposer said:
The Homeland Security Policy Institute
Presidential Transition Task Force*

Initiated by HSPI's Steering Committee in Spring 2008, the Task Force sought to
further policy discussions of the top strategic priorities in the area of security in order to generate actionable recommendations, for the Administration taking office in January 2009, designed to effectively meet the most vexing challenges the United States faces today.

I realize some would like to blame this terrorist attack on Bush, but what is important is whether Obama took the advice of advisors and panels such as this, to further protect the country.

Was political correctness more important than National Security?

What if anything did Hasan learn at this gathering would have helped him with the terrorist act he committed? Should he have been present?

It appears to me that what is happening here is trying to tag Obama with something absolutely heinous that he had absolutely nothing to do with...just as George Bush had nothing to do with it.

I'm not laying blame for this terrorist attack on anyone other than who committed it...and the idiots that didn't notice the red flags popping up everywhere about this radical lunatic...red flags that began popping up long before Obama took office.

Alice
 
Liberty Belle said:
alice said:
Twotimer said:
Notice that the dates of this task force were prior to Obama becoming president...

Dayum! I'm glad you pointed that little discrepancy out...that would have been during the Bush administration, now wouldn't it...

Alice

Did you happen to notice this from the report?

Thinking Anew—Security Priorities for the Next Administration

The Homeland Security Policy Institute
Presidential Transition Task Force*
Initiated by HSPI's Steering Committee in Spring 2008, the Task Force sought to further policy discussions of the top strategic priorities in the area of security in order to generate actionable recommendations, for the Administration taking office in January 2009, designed to effectively meet the most vexing challenges the United States faces today.

This was NOT a government document put together by the Bush administration. It was compiled by the George Washington University Homeland Security Policy Institute specifically for "the Next Administration" - THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

I would remind you that, although Hasar should have been drummed out of the military during the Bush administration because he was an obvious nut-case, it was Obama's administration that promoted Hasar to Major and moved him to Fort Hood even though they knew of his association with, and admiration for, known Islamic terrorists and suicide bombers.

And now Obama and Holder are bringing the Muslim terrorists that caused the deaths of thousands of Americans when they brought down the World Trade Center to New York City and awarding these murderers all the rights of American citizens.

Is this the Hope and Change you voted for?

I am becoming disillusioned each and every day with this administration...but not because I buy into the fear mongering crap that ultra right wingers and shock jock journalists try to put forth as gospel. :mad:

Alice
 
I am becoming disillusioned each and every day with this administration...but not because I buy into the fear mongering crap that ultra right wingers and shock jock journalists try to put forth as gospel

Wasn't it those same "right wingers and shock jocks", that warned about what you are becoming disillusioned with?
 
hypocritexposer said:
I am becoming disillusioned each and every day with this administration...but not because I buy into the fear mongering crap that ultra right wingers and shock jock journalists try to put forth as gospel

Wasn't it those same "right wingers and shock jocks", that warned about what you are becoming disillusioned with?

Nice try...
 
alice said:
Liberty Belle said:
alice said:
Dayum! I'm glad you pointed that little discrepancy out...that would have been during the Bush administration, now wouldn't it...

Alice

Did you happen to notice this from the report?

Thinking Anew—Security Priorities for the Next Administration

The Homeland Security Policy Institute
Presidential Transition Task Force*
Initiated by HSPI's Steering Committee in Spring 2008, the Task Force sought to further policy discussions of the top strategic priorities in the area of security in order to generate actionable recommendations, for the Administration taking office in January 2009, designed to effectively meet the most vexing challenges the United States faces today.

This was NOT a government document put together by the Bush administration. It was compiled by the George Washington University Homeland Security Policy Institute specifically for "the Next Administration" - THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

I would remind you that, although Hasar should have been drummed out of the military during the Bush administration because he was an obvious nut-case, it was Obama's administration that promoted Hasar to Major and moved him to Fort Hood even though they knew of his association with, and admiration for, known Islamic terrorists and suicide bombers.

And now Obama and Holder are bringing the Muslim terrorists that caused the deaths of thousands of Americans when they brought down the World Trade Center to New York City and awarding these murderers all the rights of American citizens.

Is this the Hope and Change you voted for?

I am becoming disillusioned each and every day with this administration...but not because I buy into the fear mongering crap that ultra right wingers and shock jock journalists try to put forth as gospel. :mad:

Alice
Would you honor us by telling us just what is making you become disillusioned with this Administration if it is not caused by what you are hearing from those you call ultra right wingers and shock jocks. As from what I see they have been trying to warn people since Obama entered the scene about what was coming. I find it hard to believe you have heard or read anything from anyone else that would cause you to become disillusioned since the MSM is in love with Obama and would never speak of anything harmful to his rep.
 
Major Hasan and Holy War
A domestic Islamic threat is real, and the FBI is unprepared to fight it.
November 22, 2009

By REUEL MARC GERECHT

For those of us who have tracked Islamic militancy in Europe, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's actions are not extraordinary. Since Muslim militants first tried to blow a French high-speed train off its rails in 1995, European intelligence and internal-security services have increasingly monitored European Muslim radicals. Whether it's anti-Muslim bigotry, the large numbers of immigrant and native-born Muslims in Europe, an appreciation of how hard it is to become European, or just an understanding of how dangerous Islamic radicalism is, most Europeans are far less circumspect and politically correct when discussing their Muslim compatriots than are Americans.

A concern for not giving offense to Muslims would never prevent the French internal-security service, the Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire (DST), which deploys a large number of Muslim officers, from aggressively trying to pre-empt terrorism. As Maj. Hasan's case shows, this is not true in the

Moreover, President Barack Obama's determined effort not to mention Islam in terrorist discussions—which means that we must not suggest that Maj. Hasan's murderous actions flowed from his faith—will weaken American counterterrorism. Worse, the president's position is an enormous wasted opportunity to advance an all-critical Muslim debate about the nature and legitimacy of jihad.

European counterterrorist officers know well that jihadists can appear, self-generated or tutored by extremist groups, inside Muslim families where parents and siblings lead peaceful lives. Security officials live in fear of the quiet believer who quickly radicalizes, or the secular down-and-out European who enthusiastically converts to a militant creed. Both cases allow little time and often few leads to neutralize a possible lethal explosion of the faith.

It shouldn't require the U.S. to have a French-style, internal-security service to neutralize the likes of Maj. Hasan. He combines all of the factors—especially his public ruminations about American villainy in the Middle East and his overriding sense of Muslim fraternity—that should have had him under surveillance by counterintelligence units. Add the outrageous fact that he was in email correspondence with Anwar al-Awlaqi, a pro-al Qaeda imam well-known to American intelligence, and it is hard not to conclude that the FBI is still incapable of counterterrorism against an Islamic target.

For the FBI, religion remains a much too sensitive subject, much more so than the threatening ideologies of yesteryear. Imagine if Maj. Hasan had been an officer during the Cold War, regularly expressing his sympathy for the Soviet Union and American criminality against the working man. Imagine him writing to a KGB front organization espousing socialist solidarity. The major would have been surrounded by counterintelligence officers.

A law-enforcement agency par excellence, the FBI reflects American legal ethics. Because the FBI is always thinking about criminal prosecutions and admissible evidence, its intelligence-collecting inevitably gets defined by its judicial procedures. Good counterintelligence curiosity—that must come into play before any crime is committed—is at odds with a G-man's raison d'être. And much more so than local police departments—which are grounded to the unpleasantness of daily life—it is highly susceptible to politically correct behavior.

Powerfully intertwined in all of this is liberal America's reluctance to discuss Islam, Islamic militancy, jihadism, or anything that might be construed as invidious to Muslims. The Obama administration obviously doesn't want to get tagged with an Islamist terrorist strike in the U.S.—the first since 9/11. The Muslim-sensitive 9/11 Commission Report, which unambiguously named the enemy as "Islamist terrorism," now seems distinctly passé.

Thoughtful men should certainly not want to see a U.S. president propel a "clash of civilizations" with devout Muslims. However, clash-avoidance shouldn't lead us into a philosophical cul-de-sac. The stakes are so enormous—jihadists would if they could let loose a weapon of mass destruction in a Western city—that we should not prevaricate out of politeness, or deceive ourselves into believing that a debate between Muslims and non-Muslims can only be counterproductive.

The great Muslim reformers of the last 200 years have all been intellectually deeply intertwined with the West. The West has stimulated every single great modern Muslim conversation. The abolition of slavery, the study of science, public schools and widespread literacy, the widely felt and growing need for constitutional and representative government—and less meritorious subjects like socialism, communism and fascism—came about because of Westernization. The Westernization, moreover, was usually driven by Muslims themselves.

This "globalization" has not always been appreciated on the Muslim side. Britain's imperialistic doggedness against the slave trade was deeply resented by Muslims who, like American Southerners, saw slavery, as sacred. Devout Muslims often go ballistic when Westerners and secular Muslims push hard for an expansion of women's rights. Militant Islam is a response to the unstoppable Westernization of Muslim society.

But unavoidably invidious dialogue is the essence of modernity—it is the lifeblood of autocratic societies that have successfully made the painful jump into a democratic era.

The brilliant Iranian revolutionary-turned dissident, Abd al-Karim Soroush, whose ideas contributed to the pro-democracy tumult we've witnessed in Iran since the June 12 election, has forcefully argued for Muslims to critique themselves unsparingly, to happily import and use the West's rational relentlessness to strengthen the faith. An elemental part of Mr. Soroush's critique is that Muslims are capable of thinking on their own. They can take the heat.

In his Cairo speech in June, Mr. Obama pledged "to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear." Muslims don't need his help protecting Islam from mean-spirited Westerners—or from Western novelists, film directors or scholars who might see something in Islamic history that devout Muslims find insulting.

But Westerners could certainly benefit from Mr. Obama underscoring something else he touched on in his Cairo speech: Muslims should stop blaming non-Muslims for their crippling problems. He could ask, as some Muslims have, why is it that Islam has produced so many jihadists? Why is it that Maj. Hasan's rampage has produced so little questioning among Muslim clerics about why a man, one in a long line of Muslim militants, so easily takes God's name to slaughter his fellow citizens?

Had Mr. Obama asked this, we might now be witnessing convulsive debate among Muslims. He missed the opportunity to start this conversation before what is clearly the first Islamist terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11. He will probably get another opportunity.


As it stands now, however, Iranian youth who once so eagerly welcomed Mr. Obama's election by shouting his name in Persian—U ba ma! ("He is with us!")—are now writing the president's likely legacy among Muslims who yearn for a better modernity. Disappointed to see how determined Mr. Obama has remained to engage the regime they despise, they now forlornly chant U ba unhast ("He is with them.").

For Muslims who are on the front lines of Islam's bloody reformation, as well as for American counterterrorist officers who must find holy warriors in our midst, Mr. Obama has come down on the wrong side of history.

Mr. Gerecht, a former Central Intelligence Agency officer, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
 
The WSJ article is a good one. Thanks for posting.

Obama as the president should not comment on an ongoing legal and military investigation in my opinion, but that does not mean that the author is not correct about the military and FBI being overly politically correct. The point about the European situation is an excellent one.

Again, this army officer was allowed to remain in the army under the Bush administration before Obama, so blaming Nidal Hassan on Obama is faulty reasoning. But Obama more than Bush ought to be outraged at the ideology that leads to Muslim's waging violent jihad.
 
A point of clarification, Hasan is a commissioned officer, as such, he is not enlisted, nor does he have an enlistment obligation. He has an active duty service obligation (ADSO) for his commissioning through ROTC and for medical school.

He did enlist in the Army right out of High school in 1988 and served for eight years. I'm not sure of the details of his enlisted service, but since he graduated from Virginia Tech in 1997, my guess is he served for four years on active duty, then was enrolled in the simultaneous membership program (SMP) where he was enlisted in the National Guard or Reserves while also enrolled in ROTC. Upon graduation from college his ROTC commissioning service obligation would have been four years if he received a scholarship and three years if he had not. After receiving his bachelors degree he enrolled in medical school at the Uniformed Services Univesity of the Health Sciences (USUHS) where he recieved his medical education tuition free in addition to receiving a lieutenants salary.

When he graduated from medical school in 2001 I understand he tried to get out of the Army after the 9/11 attacks, arguing that he had conscious objections against fighting fellow Muslims. My guess here is that he found little sympathy with this argument for the following reasons:

1. He enlisted in the Army immediately after graduating from High School in 1988 and served as an enlisted soldier during the gulf war (I can't find any information regarding whether he was deployed to the war zone or not).
2. Some time after the war he chose to enroll in ROTC to seek a commission as an officer
3. As has happened every time our volunteer force enters a war, several people suddenly become conscientious objectors just as they are being asked to actually make a sacrifice for the benefits they've receive from service
4. It is somewhat common that some people join the military to get training at the government's expense, and once they have completed it start trying to get out of the service often a claim of conscientious objector is presented in these cases
5. Hassan claimed conscientious objector status under a particular condition, that he was opposed to fighting Muslims, the Army only recognizes two forms of objection, one is an objection to participating in all wars and a lesser claim of objecting to personally taking part in killing
6. Hasan's claim of conscientious objector did not meet the first test, and since he was serving in the Medical Corps, a branch where many conscientious objectors have historically served the concerns regarding the second test had already been addressed
7. When he was commissioned, his oath included the phrase "I make this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion"

To any seasoned observer it would have looked like he was trying to get over on the Army.

Assuming that he actually petitioned for release as a conscientious objector, it is quite possible that his supervisors, especially the more recent ones, did not know that he had asked to get out of the Army, since soldiers tend to move often and most officers rotate through several jobs during each posting.


As to why they didn't put him out because of his performance, the Army tends to take the approach that even bad soldiers are redeemable, and puts a great deal of time and effort into trying to develop them personally and professionally. As a result there are policies that make it very difficult to put someone out of the service solely for poor performance, or odd behavior, even if that's what the soldier wants. Most of the time, in the long run, the soldier responds positively to the developmental efforts, but unfortunately, at times we have people in the service who would have been dismissed long ago, had they been civilians working in the private sector, that the Army just can't get rid of.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Hal Paul; 20th November 2009 at 07:43 AM (07:43).
 
something is not adding up on this guy..
Hasan joined the Army immediately after high school, and served eight years as an enlisted soldier while attending college. He graduated from Virginia Tech in 1997 with a bachelor's degree in biochemistry, and went on to medical school at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences ("USUHS").[15] After earning his medical degree (M.D.) in 2001, Hasan completed his residency in psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

According to the official, records reviewed by Hasan's superiors described nearly 20 years of military service, including nearly eight years as an enlisted soldier;

The Army has said it has no record of enlisted service for Hasan, instead noting that his military service began when he started the medical school program in 1997.


if he joined the service right out of high school, (1988) why would the military say they have no record of his enlisted service?

with a claimed "nearly twenty" years of service, this guys almost non-existent record, shows someone was amiss...

did he really serve nearly twenty years?

if so where was he stationed?

what was his enlisted job?

can you actually spend twenty years at college while in the military?

seems really odd, but what would I know?
 

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