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This is for Oldtimer

Tam

Well-known member
You talk about how much Coal Montana has. what do you think about the protest in Washington today? It's protesting the coal plant that heats the White House. The Protestors want Obama and the Dems to stop using Coal ALTOGETHER. No use of coal in the US at all. What is that going to do to Montana's economy? :?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Yep- there are leftwing whackjobs just as nutso as the right wing whackjobs....
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Tam said:
You talk about how much Coal Montana has. what do you think about the protest in Washington today? It's protesting the coal plant that heats the White House. The Protestors want Obama and the Dems to stop using Coal ALTOGETHER. No use of coal in the US at all. What is that going to do to Montana's economy? :?

Give it to Kenya as part of foreign aid pkg???????
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Yep- there are leftwing whackjobs just as nutso as the right wing whackjobs....

Be scared Oldtimer I hear there was some Hollyweird people out there in the parking lot and you know how many of them supported Obama and he will be looking to them for backing in the next election. :wink:
 

Tam

Well-known member
Got to love Mother Nature's sense of humor :lol:
Gore was at the Congress preaching global warming and there was a snow day called for that day in Washington DC due to horrible snow storm
Today there is a protest on Global warming and the use of coal and there is a snow storm that has dropped 8 inches of snow on the protesters heads. Neil Cavuto just had a split picture on his show showing trucks and loaders removing snow in one side and the protestors holding signs in the other. and asked "see the FLAKES". Like I said got to love Mother Nature. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
You will never get rid of the use of fossil fuels and if anyone thinks they can or suggests that it can be done....then they are crazy.


Can coal be used ' cleaner'....YES with a little research and thought I'm sure it can e cleaned up a lot.


The admn is not saying Out with Coal....they are saying Clean up Coal...which is what should have been happening all along.

If that happens, you'll see more coal usage.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
You will never get rid of the use of fossil fuels and if anyone thinks they can or suggests that it can be done....then they are crazy.


Can coal be used ' cleaner'....YES with a little research and thought I'm sure it can e cleaned up a lot.


The admn is not saying Out with Coal....they are saying Clean up Coal...which is what should have been happening all along.

If that happens, you'll see more coal usage.

Let's hope so. I know we have a lot of coal burning power plants in Texas. Most have scrubbers and you can hardly tell they are generating elec. I'm sure there is still some pollution but not just belching stuff into the air. Hopefully the natural gas boom will continue as well. Still worlds of it available and it burns clean.

Now..I'd like to throw out a question for my own information. Carbon etc. in the atmosphere....isn't some portion of that also constantly being returned to the earth via settlement in water as well as on land? I've heard of it raining "black" in heavily industrialized areas.
 

Mike

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
You will never get rid of the use of fossil fuels and if anyone thinks they can or suggests that it can be done....then they are crazy.


Can coal be used ' cleaner'....YES with a little research and thought I'm sure it can e cleaned up a lot.


The admn is not saying Out with Coal....they are saying Clean up Coal...which is what should have been happening all along.

If that happens, you'll see more coal usage.
"If somebody wants to build a coal power plant they can, it's just that it will bankrupt them because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted," Barack Obama said to the San Francisco Chronicle.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Can coal be used ' cleaner'....YES with a little research and thought I'm sure it can e cleaned up a lot.

"Cleaner' coal plants have been built already. the IGCC plants "scrub" the syngas of sulfur and other contaminants.

The problem is, as I understand it, it is not as easy as converting the "dirty" plants to clean. The older technology plants are not "paid" for yet, so replacing them would not be financially viable at this time. Electricity rates would soar.

Decarbonization, is estimated to add 30% to the cost of electricity.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
It's not the most accepted, but Nuclear is still the best bang (no pun intended), for your buck!

No plans are in the works, and haven't been for years.

That's what happens when you let Homer Simpson manage one! DOH!
 

Mike

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
It's not the most accepted, but Nuclear is still the best bang (no pun intended), for your buck!

No plans are in the works, and haven't been for years.

That's what happens when you let Homer Simpson manage one! DOH!

Actually I think there are about 16 or 17 applications that have been submitted for nuclear plants..............

Problem is.....Zer0 threw away the Yucca Mountain storage plans. :lol:

There's a bunch on the drawing board:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/page/nuc_reactors/reactorcom.html
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
With all the assessments etc. It would take 10 years at least to get one up and running, wouldn't it.

Storage wouldn't be an issue for years in the future! I think it takes quite a few years to "cool' the spent fuel down to an acceptable level to move anyway!
 

Tam

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
You will never get rid of the use of fossil fuels and if anyone thinks they can or suggests that it can be done....then they are crazy.


Can coal be used ' cleaner'....YES with a little research and thought I'm sure it can e cleaned up a lot.


The admn is not saying Out with Coal....they are saying Clean up Coal...which is what should have been happening all along.

If that happens, you'll see more coal usage.

Anti-coal activists turn to Washington for mass protest
THE OBSERVER , WASHINGTON
Sunday, Mar 01, 2009, Page 7
Thousands of activists were converging on Washington this weekend in the biggest-ever protest against the use of coal, which they argue is the dirtiest fossil fuel and yet provides half of the US’ electricity.

The focus of the demonstration is what might, in other circumstances, seem a quaint relic from another era: a coal plant built 99 years ago to assure Congress an independent source of power.

But the Capitol Hill Power Plant, which environmentalists say should have been retired years ago, is seen by many as a potent symbol of how powerful the coal lobby is.

“In terms of carbon emissions, this plant is small potatoes, but it really is a very iconic symbol,” said Matt Leonard of Greenpeace. “It can burn gas or oil or coal and people have fought very hard over the years to make sure it burns coal.”

That may be about to change. On Thursday, Democratic leaders in Congress called for an overhaul of the plant so it could run entirely on natural gas by the end of this year.

The order came down as more than 10,000 young people began arriving in Washington to lobby members of Congress to reduce the US’ reliance on coal.

Organizers say this could be the tipping point in the fight against coal, after years of steady activism.

Since the middle of 2006, plans for more than 83 coal plants have been halted. This week, Michigan’s governor announced a moratorium on all new coal plants and a Georgia court put a stop on a coal plan because of pollution concerns.

The campaign got an extra push late last year when Al Gore championed a drive to make Americans aware of the connection between coal burning and electricity. The latest TV ad, produced by the Oscar-winning Coen brothers, shows a salesman spraying black smog from an aerosol can to debunk the notion of clean coal.

Organizers of the Power Shift lobbying effort aim to give the campaign the final push. They say they have set up meetings with 80 Senators and 287 members of the house of representatives, Republican and Democrat, to convince them to vote for action on climate change.

Demonstrators led by NASA climate scientist, Jim Hansen and actor Darryl Hannah, will gather for a protest at the plant.

The survival of the plant mainly comes down to cash and influence: the coal industry has waged a ferocious struggle for survival.

At the front of the pack is the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity (ACCE), which spent nearly US$40 million last year on TV ads and a lobbying effort for coal.

Joe Lucas, vice-president of the ACCE, said: “America not using coal would be like Saudi Arabia not using oil.”

What is the Dems plans for coal again :?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Saturday, February 21, 2009
Cox says coal ban is illegal
AG: Decision to deny permits for new plants exceeds gov's authority.
Charlie Cain / Detroit News Lansing Bureau
LANSING -- State Attorney General Mike Cox said Friday that Gov. Jennifer Granholm exceeded her legal authority this month when she directed state regulators to deny permits for new coal-fired power plants if there were "feasible and prudent alternatives," such as wind and solar.

"Governors can sign bills into law, but they cannot write them. That is the legislature's job," Cox said in a statement. "If the governor wants to pursue changes to law, the legislature is the proper forum."

His 19-page opinion, which carries the weight of law unless overturned by the courts, was a blow to Granholm, who hopes to build a green energy industry here. Critics said the governor's directive, unveiled in her Feb. 3 State of the State address, ran counter to a bipartisan energy package that lawmakers approved and she signed in 2008.


Granholm disagreed with Cox's decision and said she would take the matter to the federal Environmental Protection Agency for clarification.

"As a former attorney general, the governor believes he has misread both state and federal law," said Liz Boyd, the governor's press secretary.

Cox's opinion was hailed by utility companies and the Michigan State Chamber of Commerce.

"Our 7,000 members employ about 1.8 million Michigan residents and everyone who lives and works in this state needs an energy policy that is consistent, clear and reasonable and we really appreciate (Cox's opinion)," said Chamber President Rich Studley.

"The governor's attempt to rewrite the energy bill after she signed it into law (last year) had created great uncertainty about the regulatory process that could have cost Michigan jobs. The opinion is important because it reaffirms that there are three branches of state government, not just one."

Consumers Energy, which hopes to open a $2 billion-plus, 800-megawatt coal-fired plant near Bay City by 2017, also was pleased.

"We hope this opinion will now clear the way for the state to issue draft permits for our clean-coal unit," said Consumers spokesman Jeff Holyfield.

In her State of the State message, the governor called for a near moratorium on new coal-fired plants, a leading source of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide. She and her aides indicated that the eight coal plants now in the pipeline would be put on hold for at least several months -- and that some likely wouldn't be built.

Granholm also ordered regulators to determine whether there was a "reasonable" need for any proposed coal-fired plant.

Cox's opinion on the legality of her directive was requested by two state representatives, including House GOP Leader Kevin Elsenheimer of Kewadin. He called it "welcome news to the thousands of Michigan workers who are looking forward to the good-paying jobs that would come from these new power plants."
 
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Anonymous

Guest
kolanuraven said:
You will never get rid of the use of fossil fuels and if anyone thinks they can or suggests that it can be done....then they are crazy.


Can coal be used ' cleaner'....YES with a little research and thought I'm sure it can e cleaned up a lot.


The admn is not saying Out with Coal....they are saying Clean up Coal...which is what should have been happening all along.

If that happens, you'll see more coal usage.

Yep- even the military recognized that-- the reason the Air Force has been working on building a new "clean" coal gasification plant to turn coal into jet fuel--which the last I knew was still planned to be built at the old Malmstrom AFB....Also the Aussies are proclaiming they will build a clean coal charring/gasification plant in SE Montana- besides the one the Canucks are building in southern Sask- that will pump the CO2 back to the Medicine Lake, Mt. area dry oil pockets....
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Encana is pumping CO2 up from Beulah ND to inject in the wells in the Midale area.

This is from a presentation by Hunter Lovins at Regina in 07.

"In Regina, we have a world leader in carbon sequestration in Malcolm Wilson of the U of R. Inject carbon dioxide underground with water to become carbon carbonate and stay there. To do it will double the cost of coal. "

Are we ready for double the cost? And that's with out the added regs of big government.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Encana is pumping CO2 up from Beulah ND to inject in the wells in the Midale area.

This is from a presentation by Hunter Lovins at Regina in 07.

"In Regina, we have a world leader in carbon sequestration in Malcolm Wilson of the U of R. Inject carbon dioxide underground with water to become carbon carbonate and stay there. To do it will double the cost of coal. "

Are we ready for double the cost? And that's with out the added regs of big government.

We were paying the Arab cartels and Bush/Cheney cartels well over double the cost not long ago- and they hold us hostage to any price, so could raise it again... I'd gladly pay more to get us off their teat ....
 
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