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This Is One Stupid Democrat!!!!!!!

Mike

Well-known member
Rep. Kucinich to U.N.: Investigate Israel for Hamas Attacks
newsmax.com ^ | December 30, 2008


Rep. Dennis Kucinich has parted ways with his Democratic colleagues and called for a United Nations investigation into what he calls Israel’s “disproportionate” attacks on Gaza.

Referring to Israel’s air assault on Hamas targets in Gaza, the Ohio legislator issued a statement saying: “All this was, and is, disproportionate, indiscriminate mass violence in violation of international law. Israel is not exempt from international law and must be held accountable.”

The perpetrators of the rocket barrages aimed at Israeli population centers should be brought to justice, said Kucinich, adding that Israel “cannot create a war against an entire people in order to attempt to bring to justice the few who are responsible.”

Hamas, which controls Gaza, resumed its rocket attacks on Israel nearly two months ago, toward the end of a recently expired truce.

More than 360 Palestinians have been killed, most of them members of Hamas security forces but at least 64 of them civilians, according to the United Nations. Rockets launched from Gaza have killed at least three Israeli civilians and a soldier.
 

don

Well-known member
israel was a mistake. probably seemed like a good strategic move by britain and the usa at the time to establish a friendly presence in the middle east. i'm sure the israelis's have been on the phone to the white house and lieberman to ask for more aid, military or otherwise.
 

don

Well-known member
sorry reader, i ain't sawed off and i definitely ain't an idiot. how does the concept of israel differ from reservations from native americans?
 

MsSage

Well-known member
don do you believe that had the US not set Israel as a nation we never would have been attacked by the terrorist? That in doing so all that did was upset the middle east and turn them against us?

I am really asking to see if anyone else thinks this way other than shoer.
I can see his point when he explains it ( better than I am doing here)
I have never given that conflict any in depth research or thought so I am asking to get others point of view.
 

don

Well-known member
mssage i believe that over time the fact that the state of israel exists where it does and the circumstances of its establishment have made its existence a contributor to instability in the middle east. the fact that the united states is a major benefactor and protector of israel in the un would make the united states very unpopular in some arab countries.
 

don

Well-known member
reader would you say that israeli politicians have, like some politicians in iran, syria and other neighbouring nations, exploited the tribalism (now developed into nationalism)? would you guess the middle east would be more stable if israel had not been established sixty or so years ago? i'm not saying dismantle israel, i'm saying let's recognize the situation for what it is and deal with it on that basis rather than having major powers pit the tribes against each other for strategic advantage. i doubt britain could have established israel without the support of the usa and i think before everyone gets all emotional it should be remembered that one reason to set up a jewish nation was because other countries (many) did not want to absorb more refugees after the war.
 

Mike

Well-known member
This is a matter of whether jihadist Muslims can live peacefully next to their neighbors.

It appears they cannot, no matter the concessions agreed to by the other side.

The Hamas group is flinging Iranian supplied missiles over the Israel border from amongst civilians they are using as human shields, then crying fowl when a few of those same civilians are injured during retaliation, and the civilians in Gaza are crying fowl for killing the government that they elected.

This just goes to show that a "Fair" war cannot be fought.

Israel is telephoning the Gaza residents to warn them of assaults? Why?

Kill them all and end the whole problem.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Thanks Reader for that explaination, the clarity demonstrates considerable understanding. THe problem with your truth is it doesn't allow some truth assasins to "BlameBush" for Ishmal.
 

andybob

Well-known member
Reader, if I recall correctly, the League of nations allowed a much larger area for a Jewish homeland, including present day Jordan, the Brits handed out perts of this homeland to the Arabs as reward for supporting the British during the war. (Pity we didn't get the same consideration!)
Don, the Islamic peoples have always been at odds with each other, if it wasn't Israel, it would be the Kurds, or the Turks that would be singled out by the Arab tribes.
 

Steve

Well-known member
don said:
sorry reader, i ain't sawed off and i definitely ain't an idiot. how does the concept of Israel differ from reservations from native Americans?

Don your right in that the Israelis have been relegated to a reservation just as the native Americans have, but as far as the rest, history must not be your strong suit..

Jews as a religion is at least 3300 years old then Moses lived and that religion started in the middle east in or near a land they now call Israel while Moses didn't cross into the promised land returning the Israeli people to their homeland, it does allow for a "they have been there awhile argument".

the Muslim religion started in the 600's or about 1900 years later... after Moses led his people back to their homeland. (Israel) the Muslim religion as reported to have been born at Mecca but didn't take hold until later in Madina, is a city in the Hejaz region of western Saudi Arabia

so as far as the religions are concerned.. the Jews were there (in Israel) first..

now if you look at the cultures Arab - Persian and the many others who shared the land.. dating back to the beginning of human history...a land they all shared, it still looks as if the Jews were relegated to a reservation if you look at the bigger picture..and take in the size of the entire middle east. and not confine your history to just the limited thinking that we some how put the Jews in the middle east in the 50's

BTW Yasser Arafat was born in Cairo, had his mother not passed away at an early age, he might never had stepped foot in Israel.
 

Steve

Well-known member
.More studies have been carried out on the genetic history of the Jews than on most ethnic groups, perhaps because there are so many Jewish doctors to take advantage of the fabled willingness of Jews to participate in research. These studies not only show that almost all Jewish populations have origins in the Middle East, but that the DNA of Jews from almost every corner of the Diaspora is more similar to that of other Jews than to any other population. When compared with non-Jewish groups, the closest match is with the Muslims of Kurdistan,

R2
There have always been Jews in "Palestine," albeit not a large number.

My point to Don was that the actions of the US at the end of WW2 was not to put the Jews in the Middle East.. and move out the Palestinians..

. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians. Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

so the argument of who belongs might have started after 48.. but records indicate many Arabs are also immigrants to the Israel.

I am not an expert but "Blaming the US" or even Briton for the Israel ~ Palestinian conflict is no more valid then blaming the Romans..

quite simply as soon as everyone stops shooting at each other there will be peace..

BTW Don who broke the last ceasefire?
 

don

Well-known member
who broke the last ceasefire? hamas started firing rockets because they said israel had not lived up to its commitments. i don't know if they did or not. the middle east is one unholy mess - and i say that advisedly. nobody's going to win and everybody's going to lose. you get religion into it and no room for compromise and the body count just keeps on going up. to argue that because the jews used to live there gives them the right to a presence for all eternity ignores so much history of events all over the world that common sense is ignored. the muslims don't want the jews there and with settlements, homesteaders and hawkish expansionist politicians on both sides this is one of the stupidest situations mankind has devised. as reader says jews have always lived there but with the establishment of israel the religious and political issues all became higher stakes struggles.
 

Steve

Well-known member
don said:
who broke the last ceasefire? hamas started firing rockets because they said israel had not lived up to its commitments. i don't know if they did or not. the middle east is one unholy mess - and i say that advisedly. nobody's going to win and everybody's going to lose. you get religion into it and no room for compromise and the body count just keeps on going up. to argue that because the jews used to live there gives them the right to a presence for all eternity ignores so much history of events all over the world that common sense is ignored. the muslims don't want the jews there and with settlements, homesteaders and hawkish expansionist politicians on both sides this is one of the stupidest situations mankind has devised. as reader says jews have always lived there but with the establishment of israel the religious and political issues all became higher stakes struggles.

Israel is less the one percent of the middle east.. a land the Jews are not just "from" or "used to live" at as you claim, but over the last at least 3300 years a land they have lived. so in effect they are like the native Americans relegated to a reservation.. the only difference is that we are not trying to force them out of existence. by firing rockets at them every day..

so Don, are you just anti semitic? or do you just really hate America? or do you just not understand "Palestine"?

Just because the Muslims hate the Jews doesn't make their existence "one of the stupidest situations mankind has devised."

by your answer it appears that the Jews should be removed from their historical homeland and sent elsewhere?

Don't you get the fact is that the Jews are from the middle east just as much as the Arabs are from the middle east?

I would think that before I blamed a nation for the "unholy mess" as you blamed America, I would at least know who started the unholy mess and who mandated the nation.. in a bleak deserted unwanted part of the world. at least then I wouldn't have looked like an Idiot insulting a nation..

and i definitely ain't an idiot.

really could have fooled me...

i doubt britain could have established israel without the support of the usa

wrong... we sat that decision out. word has it our guy sat in the courtyard and read a paper while Briton and France came to an agreement.. but either way we didn't participate in their already existing plan...

i think before everyone gets all emotional it should be remembered that one reason to set up a jewish nation was because other countries (many) did not want to absorb more refugees after the war.

not sure if you really understand it.. as your context is 60 years ago I would think that you really don't understand what your blaming US for..as the mandate started after WW1 and that was 90 years ago. after the fall of the Ottoman empire.


http://www.mideastweb.org/mandate.htm
 

Steve

Well-known member
Don this seems to be the part you and the Arab extremists seem to always forget... when they blame US for their problems.. and for always siding with Israel..

In a speech delivered on 25 March 1948, US President Truman recommended a temporary trusteeship and stated that the use of force was inconsistent with the UN Charter:

This country vigorously supported the plan for partition with economic union recommended by the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine and by the General Assembly. We have explored every possibility consistent with the basic principles of the Charter for giving effect to that solution. Unfortunately, it has become clear that the partition plan cannot be carried out at this time by peaceful means. We could not undertake to impose this solution on the people of Palestine by the use of American troops, both on Charter grounds and as a matter of national policy

hmmm,.. the fact is in 1948, well over 29 years into the mandate (that we had no part in).. we stood up for the people of Palestine..

yep it was someones" fault.. but not ours... maybe next time before you slander US you will do a little research so you don't come across looking like an Idiot..

Happy New Year..
 

don

Well-known member
steve go ahead and ignore the reality of the last forty one years. i'm not the idiot. where did israel get its nuclear capability? if not from the united states it was at least allowed to happen. do you still wonder why other middle eastern states feel they should then be able to have the same capability? why shouldn't iran have nukes if israel can have them? they're both states whose governments are very much influenced by religion - a surefire recipe for disaster. neither one should be nuclear but the genie is out of the bottle now. if not for the united states israel would no longer be there. it also makes israel much more hardline in their positions vis a vis gaza, settlements and border security. they have uncle sam as a big brother. the usa might have thought it was using the israeli's as proxies for an american presence but i think in the end you will have a tiger by the tail.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Don
where did israel get its nuclear capability?

In the fall of 1956, France agreed to provide Israel with an 18 MWt research reactor.

On 3 October 1957, France and Israel signed a revised agreement calling for France to build a 24 MWt reactor
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/


next you will be blaming US for helping the Iranians Build Nukes..

by most indications for other countries is,... because the US didn't stop them, it's our fault.

No wonder many conservative Americans favor bombing Iran before they get one.. because 42 years from now,... because we didn't stop Iran it will be "if not from the united states it was at least allowed to happen".

so Don.. are we also helping the Iranians by not bombing them into submission on the Nuke issue?

I would really enjoy showing the error to the rest of your post, but I'm going out so have a Happy New Year..
 

don

Well-known member
i think the usa would have to be complicit in the france - israel deal or they would have wanted to stop the spread of nuclear weapons as they did with other countries. i think israel will end up doing american bidding with iran unless someone in israel goes berserk. sandman you illustrate what i say about religion making it worse. is there a religion whose members haven't been told they are god's chosen people and anyone who disagrees is evil and the enemy? once religion gets organized it's just another political movement by someone to get power and influence and usually wealth. when the fight is over religion it has nothing to do with good or evil, right or wrong it's just hatred is all.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
don, "is there a religion whose members haven't been told they are god's chosen people and anyone who disagrees is evil and the enemy?"

Yes, Christianity.
 

alice

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
don, "is there a religion whose members haven't been told they are god's chosen people and anyone who disagrees is evil and the enemy?"

Yes, Christianity.

Check...and mate...:lol: Now then, Sandhusker, go back and read what you wrote...slowly...then apply it to yourself.

Alice
 
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