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Time for a little Vodka

Econ101

Well-known member
TimH said:
Econ101 said:
TimH said:
You are absolutely right Econ. In fact, I'm so poorly educated, that I believed that Wal-Mart's ability to buy wholesale goods ,in sufficient quantity that they could get a volume discount and pass the savings on to me, was a GOOD thing. I'll rush right out and pay more than double for my oil from now on.
Thanks for enlightening me, ARROGANCE 101. :)

So you can do part of the equation? This is scantron, all right or all wrong. Seperate market power and you will get the answer right. If you can not seperate out the market power, then have another go at it.

By the way, there are many times that other stores have lower prices than walmart. In our area walmart sends out their meat manager to the other stores so he can make his prices accordingly. It is kind of like being the last one to set prices and setting them just under your competitor's prices on the ones they advertise. You then can pull the rug out from under your competitor's advertising. Better yet, just tell everyone to bring in thier advertisements from other stores and say you will give them that price. That way you can get a free ride off of their advertisements.

Does this happen? All the time. Go ask the store manager at your nearest walmart. It is predatory advertising. Then we are left with advertisements of buy 2 get one instead of advertisements with price. It leaves out the price in the ad. Does Walmart honor these? NOOOOO! Does this help consumers who are sitting at home reading the paper get the benefit of knowing the price before they shop? No. It reduces the information that consumers have at their house and at their disposal. It cuts information out of the chain. You have to go to the stores and actually compare. Unfortunately, we do not buy much of our produce from walmart because when they made price the king over price/quality, we stopped buying from them.

You can pick a lot of examples out where walmart is cheaper. Sometimes they are better deals for you and sometimes they are not. The way they got those better deals is of concern to the producers of those supplies. If it comes out of their pockets instead of Walmart's margins because of market power, we are shooting our own producers in the foot.

You must realize that we are all producers of some form or another.

You must be able to seperate things out, Tim H., or do you just have a simple mind?

I have such a simple mind that I thought "seperate' was spelled "s-e-p-A-r-a-t-e". No matter. It just shows how poorly educated I are.
Perhaps you could seperate this out for me. Who has more "market power" when it comes to retailing hydraulic oil, Wal-Mart or Esso/Exxon??? :???: :???:

You were the first one to catch my spelling mistake, TimH. I was expecting MRJ to do it as she has before.

Exxon has more market power in the oil business. Their record profits prove it. Walmart has more on the retail side as a whole.

Can you "seperate" the difference between the abuse of market power between suppliers and lower costs due to efficiencies of scale? I will give you a hint--The Robinson Patman Act has done it for you. Coincidentally, that was the same place that the Appellate judges were wrong economically in the Pickett decision.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
TimH said:
Econ101 said:
So you can do part of the equation? This is scantron, all right or all wrong. Seperate market power and you will get the answer right. If you can not seperate out the market power, then have another go at it.

By the way, there are many times that other stores have lower prices than walmart. In our area walmart sends out their meat manager to the other stores so he can make his prices accordingly. It is kind of like being the last one to set prices and setting them just under your competitor's prices on the ones they advertise. You then can pull the rug out from under your competitor's advertising. Better yet, just tell everyone to bring in thier advertisements from other stores and say you will give them that price. That way you can get a free ride off of their advertisements.

Does this happen? All the time. Go ask the store manager at your nearest walmart. It is predatory advertising. Then we are left with advertisements of buy 2 get one instead of advertisements with price. It leaves out the price in the ad. Does Walmart honor these? NOOOOO! Does this help consumers who are sitting at home reading the paper get the benefit of knowing the price before they shop? No. It reduces the information that consumers have at their house and at their disposal. It cuts information out of the chain. You have to go to the stores and actually compare. Unfortunately, we do not buy much of our produce from walmart because when they made price the king over price/quality, we stopped buying from them.

You can pick a lot of examples out where walmart is cheaper. Sometimes they are better deals for you and sometimes they are not. The way they got those better deals is of concern to the producers of those supplies. If it comes out of their pockets instead of Walmart's margins because of market power, we are shooting our own producers in the foot.

You must realize that we are all producers of some form or another.

You must be able to seperate things out, Tim H., or do you just have a simple mind?

I have such a simple mind that I thought "seperate' was spelled "s-e-p-A-r-a-t-e". No matter. It just shows how poorly educated I are.
Perhaps you could seperate this out for me. Who has more "market power" when it comes to retailing hydraulic oil, Wal-Mart or Esso/Exxon??? :???: :???:

You were the first one to catch my spelling mistake, TimH. I was expecting MRJ to do it as she has before.

Exxon has more market power in the oil business. Their record profits prove it. Walmart has more on the retail side as a whole.

Can you "seperate" the difference between the abuse of market power between suppliers and lower costs due to efficiencies of scale? I will give you a hint--The Robinson Patman Act has done it for you. Coincidentally, that was the same place that the Appellate judges were wrong economically in the Pickett decision.

Who has more "market power" when it comes to retailing hydraulic oil, Wal-Mart or Esso/Exxon??? :???:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
TimH:
Who has more "market power" when it comes to retailing hydraulic oil, Wal-Mart or Esso/Exxon??? Say what?

Does it matter?

Maybe you should get one of those crazy 8 answer balls, Tim.

They both have market power and they are both earning tons of money abusing it at the expense of other companies trying to compete with them.

Is your answer for everyone to invest in these businesses? What if we are just torked off about our current government's inability to do anything but suggest that we all invest in companies that cheat the free market?
 

Beefman

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
TimH said:
Econ101 said:
Tim, competition is good as your example shows. Market power and its exertion by the middlemen (Walmart included) is not. It allows for the concentration of industries and the abuse of market power more and more.

To the poorly educated, these things are easily confused.

You are absolutely right Econ. In fact, I'm so poorly educated, that I believed that Wal-Mart's ability to buy wholesale goods ,in sufficient quantity that they could get a volume discount and pass the savings on to me, was a GOOD thing. I'll rush right out and pay more than double for my oil from now on.
Thanks for enlightening me, ARROGANCE 101. :)

So you can do part of the equation? This is scantron, all right or all wrong. Seperate market power and you will get the answer right. If you can not seperate out the market power, then have another go at it.

By the way, there are many times that other stores have lower prices than walmart. In our area walmart sends out their meat manager to the other stores so he can make his prices accordingly. It is kind of like being the last one to set prices and setting them just under your competitor's prices on the ones they advertise. You then can pull the rug out from under your competitor's advertising. Better yet, just tell everyone to bring in thier advertisements from other stores and say you will give them that price. That way you can get a free ride off of their advertisements.

Does this happen? All the time. Go ask the store manager at your nearest walmart. It is predatory advertising. Then we are left with advertisements of buy 2 get one instead of advertisements with price. It leaves out the price in the ad. Does Walmart honor these? NOOOOO! Does this help consumers who are sitting at home reading the paper get the benefit of knowing the price before they shop? No. It reduces the information that consumers have at their house and at their disposal. It cuts information out of the chain. You have to go to the stores and actually compare. Unfortunately, we do not buy much of our produce from walmart because when they made price the king over price/quality, we stopped buying from them.

You can pick a lot of examples out where walmart is cheaper. Sometimes they are better deals for you and sometimes they are not. The way they got those better deals is of concern to the producers of those supplies. If it comes out of their pockets instead of Walmart's margins because of market power, we are shooting our own producers in the foot.

You must realize that we are all producers of some form or another.

You must be able to seperate things out, Tim H., or do you just have a simple mind?

Since you seem to be wired into Walmarts meat marketing strategy, and know all the finite details on Murray mowers, I guess it should come as no surprise you'd be well informed on Walmarts advertising and promotional stragegy in your area. Better be careful......pretty soon you're going to run out of fingers, arms and legs to cross as you spin these fables.

Speaking of fables, nice post on the Nov 13, 2003 anti WAlmart article. Your article was from the Executive Intelligence Review, which is Lyndon LaRouche's publication. His rag reads just like you talk. You used this article to spring board into your latest rant. Isn't LaRouche the leftist liberal that bombed out of the demo '04 presidential primary? He was also quoted in the story you posted. Let's see.....being quoted in your own liberal rag......really gains you lots of creditability points. You're all over the place in that store. Whether its meat, mowers, hydralic oil, by golly you're right on top of it. We should be asking you about the "all foam, no beer section". You no doubt got that one down solid.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
TimH:
Who has more "market power" when it comes to retailing hydraulic oil, Wal-Mart or Esso/Exxon??? Say what?

Does it matter?

Maybe you should get one of those crazy 8 answer balls, Tim.

They both have market power and they are both earning tons of money abusing it at the expense of other companies trying to compete with them.

Is your answer for everyone to invest in these businesses? What if we are just torked off about our current government's inability to do anything but suggest that we all invest in companies that cheat the free market?

That's twice you failed to answer a simple question. I won't bother asking again.
:lol: :lol:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Beefman said:
Econ101 said:
TimH said:
You are absolutely right Econ. In fact, I'm so poorly educated, that I believed that Wal-Mart's ability to buy wholesale goods ,in sufficient quantity that they could get a volume discount and pass the savings on to me, was a GOOD thing. I'll rush right out and pay more than double for my oil from now on.
Thanks for enlightening me, ARROGANCE 101. :)

So you can do part of the equation? This is scantron, all right or all wrong. Seperate market power and you will get the answer right. If you can not seperate out the market power, then have another go at it.

By the way, there are many times that other stores have lower prices than walmart. In our area walmart sends out their meat manager to the other stores so he can make his prices accordingly. It is kind of like being the last one to set prices and setting them just under your competitor's prices on the ones they advertise. You then can pull the rug out from under your competitor's advertising. Better yet, just tell everyone to bring in thier advertisements from other stores and say you will give them that price. That way you can get a free ride off of their advertisements.

Does this happen? All the time. Go ask the store manager at your nearest walmart. It is predatory advertising. Then we are left with advertisements of buy 2 get one instead of advertisements with price. It leaves out the price in the ad. Does Walmart honor these? NOOOOO! Does this help consumers who are sitting at home reading the paper get the benefit of knowing the price before they shop? No. It reduces the information that consumers have at their house and at their disposal. It cuts information out of the chain. You have to go to the stores and actually compare. Unfortunately, we do not buy much of our produce from walmart because when they made price the king over price/quality, we stopped buying from them.

You can pick a lot of examples out where walmart is cheaper. Sometimes they are better deals for you and sometimes they are not. The way they got those better deals is of concern to the producers of those supplies. If it comes out of their pockets instead of Walmart's margins because of market power, we are shooting our own producers in the foot.

You must realize that we are all producers of some form or another.

You must be able to seperate things out, Tim H., or do you just have a simple mind?

Since you seem to be wired into Walmarts meat marketing strategy, and know all the finite details on Murray mowers, I guess it should come as no surprise you'd be well informed on Walmarts advertising and promotional stragegy in your area. Better be careful......pretty soon you're going to run out of fingers, arms and legs to cross as you spin these fables.

Speaking of fables, nice post on the Nov 13, 2003 anti WAlmart article. Your article was from the Executive Intelligence Review, which is Lyndon LaRouche's publication. His rag reads just like you talk. You used this article to spring board into your latest rant. Isn't LaRouche the leftist liberal that bombed out of the demo '04 presidential primary? He was also quoted in the story you posted. Let's see.....being quoted in your own liberal rag......really gains you lots of creditability points. You're all over the place in that store. Whether its meat, mowers, hydralic oil, by golly you're right on top of it. We should be asking you about the "all foam, no beer section". You no doubt got that one down solid.

Beefman, I have found every article I have posted on this forum on the net AFTER making my arguments of what is happening. Most of the articles (95%) I have found in the 10 minutes it takes me to write a post. The articles only put into words what I have seen independently. I didn't write the articles nor do I support everything in them. Can I help it if some of the people who broke from the normal mantra of controlled media have also been correct? If you had any points or counter points to my arguments, you would have posted them instead of going after the messenger. Your lack of counter points and rush to go after the messenger must mean you have no case. Truely when you speak of all foam and no beer you speak from experience.
 

Jason

Well-known member
conman said:
If you had any points or counter points to my arguments, you would have posted them instead of going after the messenger. Your lack of counter points and rush to go after the messenger must mean you have no case. Truely when you speak of all foam and no beer you speak from experience.

I don't care who ya are...that is funny :D
 

Beefman

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Beefman, I have found every article I have posted on this forum on the net AFTER making my arguments of what is happening. Most of the articles (95%) I have found in the 10 minutes it takes me to write a post. The articles only put into words what I have seen independently. I didn't write the articles nor do I support everything in them. Can I help it if some of the people who broke from the normal mantra of controlled media have also been correct? If you had any points or counter points to my arguments, you would have posted them instead of going after the messenger. Your lack of counter points and rush to go after the messenger must mean you have no case. Truely when you speak of all foam and no beer you speak from experience.
Let me make sure I'm following your math correctly. As you close in on your 4,000th post in the past 292 days, at 10 minutes / post you’ve spent 40,000 minutes…..or 666.66 hours (scary number, isn’t it), or given a 40 hour work week, 16.67 weeks on this forum. Prorated to a full year makes me wonder if you’re getting paid by this website to hassle the rest of us.

When you post proof sources from the likes of Howard Lyman, Jim Hightower, or Lyndon LaRouche, you can expect to get your shorts jerked down. As Tim H already said on this thread, there were no facts, so it's hard to shoot back when the bullseye is absent. You can’t even address his hydraulic oil question. Just like you couldn’t answer my question, which I asked you about twice, regarding your 5/20/06 post on Tyson “buying inferior cattle on the markets and selling them as something better than they are.”
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
A few thoughts on the oil thread.

I don't believe its completely due to WallyWorld's buying power that their oil is so cheap, at least their own brand oil anyway.

In the case of Esso/Exxon, when the oil leaves the refinery, it runs through TWO middle men - A Canadian (or US) wide distributor, then a regional distributor. Each of these middle men get a markup, and on some of the oil, its substantial. Then you have your final retail outlet who gets a markup. This distribution network is enforced, and no retail outlet is allowed outside the chain. Some regional distributors have worked around it by having their own bulk plants sell direct to customer.

With WalMart, they buy direct from the refinery. No middle men except for WalMart main office.

Check your WallyWorld oil jug as well. I wonder if it carries an API seal? I know some of the WalMart brand stuff I was looking one time at did not. On some oil, and I don't know about hydraulic oil, that API symbol costs the refinery up to $2.50/quart. But at least you know that what you're getting will satisfy the needs of whatever equipment you're putting it into. I would never run a non certified oil, just in the name of saving a few bucks.

Just a few thoughts to add to the fray. And in case anyone is wondering, this information comes from my father who is a bulk plant owner and regional rep.

Rod
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Beefman said:
Econ101 said:
Beefman, I have found every article I have posted on this forum on the net AFTER making my arguments of what is happening. Most of the articles (95%) I have found in the 10 minutes it takes me to write a post. The articles only put into words what I have seen independently. I didn't write the articles nor do I support everything in them. Can I help it if some of the people who broke from the normal mantra of controlled media have also been correct? If you had any points or counter points to my arguments, you would have posted them instead of going after the messenger. Your lack of counter points and rush to go after the messenger must mean you have no case. Truely when you speak of all foam and no beer you speak from experience.
Let me make sure I'm following your math correctly. As you close in on your 4,000th post in the past 292 days, at 10 minutes / post you’ve spent 40,000 minutes…..or 666.66 hours (scary number, isn’t it), or given a 40 hour work week, 16.67 weeks on this forum. Prorated to a full year makes me wonder if you’re getting paid by this website to hassle the rest of us.

When you post proof sources from the likes of Howard Lyman, Jim Hightower, or Lyndon LaRouche, you can expect to get your shorts jerked down. As Tim H already said on this thread, there were no facts, so it's hard to shoot back when the bullseye is absent. You can’t even address his hydraulic oil question. Just like you couldn’t answer my question, which I asked you about twice, regarding your 5/20/06 post on Tyson “buying inferior cattle on the markets and selling them as something better than they are.”

Beefman, you are the one arguing with me over Tyson's Walmart meat being sold and the meat managers (and before it became a topic of discussion on this board, the lady who answered the toll free number on the back of the package) insistence it was USDA Grade A, then USDA Choice.

If you can't figure out Tyson is buying select and selling it as choice, that is a problem in your own head, not mine. Why should I answer you on your question you asked twice? I could answer, but it would not register.

The assumptions you made about my posts are all wrong so all the math you did above is wrong (not that it would matter). Maybe you should start pondering the points I bring up instead of making up stuff on false assumptions. I will guarantee you the time I have spent on this site does not even come close to the time spent on putting out misleading propaganda on this industry by paid people.

No, I am not getting paid a dime for posting here. I doubt sandhusker is either.
 

Beefman

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Econ on 5/20/06 Tyson is “buying inferior cattle on the markets and selling them as something better than they are.”
Econ on 6/14/06 If you can't figure out Tyson is buying select and selling it as choice, that is a problem in your own head, not mine.

Give it up. You're going down in flames on this one. Notice that none of your usual running mates are lining up to support you on this?

To suggest Tyson is buying inferior (in your words, Select grading) cattle and selling them as something better is a check you can't cash. To further suggest Select grading cattle are inferior truely shows your ignorance.

Do you have any idea what percent of the producers in the country (or on this site) produce Select grading cattle?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Beefman said:
Econ101 said:
Econ on 5/20/06 Tyson is “buying inferior cattle on the markets and selling them as something better than they are.”
Econ on 6/14/06 If you can't figure out Tyson is buying select and selling it as choice, that is a problem in your own head, not mine.

Give it up. You're going down in flames on this one. Notice that none of your usual running mates are lining up to support you on this?

To suggest Tyson is buying inferior (in your words, Select grading) cattle and selling them as something better is a check you can't cash. To further suggest Select grading cattle are inferior truely shows your ignorance.

Do you have any idea what percent of the producers in the country (or on this site) produce Select grading cattle?

Beefman, I have no problem with cattle grading select. The consumer should know if the beef they are buying is select and should not be lied to about it as I was by my local walmart.

I know some cuts of meat I would not buy and use for the purpose I am buying if the beef is select. I have cooked enough BBQ to know the difference. Like I said before, some of the meat Tyson is selling should have been in the grind instead of sold in the gas modified packages. Maybe we would have imported less meat that way. Go ask Hanta Yo his experience with walmart. I am sure it is not the first nor the last.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a lot of cuts that are slect and sometimes do. Others, I would just put in hamburger.

Tyson is just trying to sell some of that meat as higher value when in fact, they are hurting beef demand. When you only shop at walmart you may have no "choice" in the matter. I do not.

I don't need a crowd to follow me when I post. People can agree or disagree and I am happy either way. It makes no difference. You sound like a person who has a confidence problem here. I do not.

By the way, you shouldn't have a flame when you BBQ unless you are at the end and want to crisp up the outside or have a seperate firebox (which I do).

Have a good weekend, Beefman, and do a little cooking on the grill.
 

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