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Today? - Tommorrow?

cutterone

Well-known member
I have to admit I am a "reader" of the posts on the site rather a poster and that I am really impressed with the knowledge of many of the members. Lots of stimulating conversations about everything from cattle to politics.
My question to all of you is - "Do you really feel you are making a good go of it or are you just treading water?"
There are days I feel like a pinball being bounced around by all the political and business matters being discussed on these threads and just dodging the next bullet!
Are we all just ignoring (but possibably complaining) the demise of the cattleman to big business, gov't policys, enviornment issues, and greed just as many other small business and just riding the boat until it sinks because we have no choice? Do you really think you will doing the same thing in 5-10 years from today or is this just a very rough wave we are riding? Or do you forsee a bright future just with a different twist?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I think it depends on what leadership we rally around. The outfit that used to "run the show" for cattlemen is taking us down some of those dangerous paths you mentioned.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
There is a "bright future" for those willing to do the work to bypass big business and give consumers what they are asking for. The main stream beef business is a mature commodity industry.
 

Bward

Well-known member
Been treading water here for 28 years :D I have given up on the "next year" theory as something is always lurking around the corner to stomp out any possible future fortune.

Yesterday I went to watch some cull cows sell and noticed that everyone else there was older than dirt. The "young" ranchers are no longer in existance or they are working another job full time to cover the cost of feeding the world.

My own sons, with a little push from me are University grads and have successful careers elsewhere.

In 5 to 10 years I beleive that whoever is left hanging on to the cows tail may be in a good spot to make a good living at raising livestock.

There I go, showing my unending optimism for a bright future. Will I ever learn? :wink:
 

cutterone

Well-known member
Well if that's true will it be the way of the"WallMart" drive everyone out until the last dog standing or will we all be replaced with foriegn ranchers providing the product, or will the econonmy just simply colapse and people going back to way it use to be with lots of small ranchers, farmers and businesses?
 

per

Well-known member
There have been tough times in the past and the one lesson gleamed from history is that those without debt and are willing to adapt will survive. The higher the debt the more unique your product must be. Having said that, debt does add to your drive!
 

katrina

Well-known member
Please don't give up hope... There's days (sometimes weeks) that I feel the very same way..... But it's the Randys, Robertmacs, bse-testers, dennys, mikes, pprms, and to many more to mention that make me proud of what I do....... The era of the cowpuncher on the range with his cows are going by the wayside.... We are now beef producers that have to be able to account for our product.... Yeah I'm the one that it took a week for it to sink in that horses are not livestock they are considered pets...... I really feel that the cattle buisness will get better and better. We just have to hang in there... We must also remember that what works for some will not work for others..... Knowing the differance between the whiners and nay-sayers to the productive and postive folks who are working for the betterment of the beef industry.
Ask yourself what do you really want out of life??? Fresh air and working on the land or would a town job be better? Are the bills all paid and do ya have a roof over your head. Is it a good life for your kids?
What guarentees are there in life?
Okay, off of my soapbox........
 

mrj

Well-known member
Obviously, there are more cattle industry pessimists posting on this site than optimists.

I remain one of the optimists, seeing a bright future for cattle production in the USA......for people willing to maintain records, produce for the consumer, add value to their cattle, and MARKET their cattle rather than shoving them into a truck and saying "we raise cattle, not beef", as they send them to the auction, not caring what happens to the guy who buys them. The USA does STILL enjoy the reputation of producing the best quality beef in the world and there are people who want and can afford to pay for that quality product.

There are also those who are natural survivors and will do whatever it takes to 'get by' operating pretty much like they always.....and/or having at least one family member with a job off the place.

Pessimists, and those who see conspiracies in every corporate and most government action, yet ask government to impost more barriers and regulations and believe they can sue goverment to implement market protectionism, and 'corporates' into GIVING them a "fair share" price for cattle.........I doubt will stay in business much longer due to being consumed by their own anger and a refusal to change with the times.

Sure there are problems to be overcome, and there will be good times for those with the foresight to turn challenges into opportunities. In some areas of the country, there are younger generations taking over, and they generally have at least some education beyond highschool, with more getting degrees, and some returning to ranches after a few years getting experience in the working world. Which isn't a bad idea, IMO.

BTW, the US export market is up, having reached about half of what it was before BSE, and is growing.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
With every industry/business, you've got challenges and opportunities. We are challenged by a regulatory agency with skewed priorities, groups claiming to represent producers that do more harm than good, Free Trade, an erosion of health and safety standards on our product..... Yet we have opportunities because our cattle are turned into beef, and beef is dang good food, developing countries will be taking more beef as their middle class grows, etc.....

I think the key is recognizing the challenges and preparing a defense ahead of time and placing ourselves in front of the opportunities. We also have to understand which marketing stragegy maximizes our opportunities and not be afraid or ashamed to stump for what we want.
 

Denny

Well-known member
katrina said:
Please don't give up hope... There's days (sometimes weeks) that I feel the very same way..... But it's the Randys, Robertmacs, bse-testers, dennys, mikes, pprms, and to many more to mention that make me proud of what I do....... The era of the cowpuncher on the range with his cows are going by the wayside.... We are now beef producers that have to be able to account for our product.... Yeah I'm the one that it took a week for it to sink in that horses are not livestock they are considered pets...... I really feel that the cattle buisness will get better and better. We just have to hang in there... We must also remember that what works for some will not work for others..... Knowing the differance between the whiners and nay-sayers to the productive and postive folks who are working for the betterment of the beef industry.
Ask yourself what do you really want out of life??? Fresh air and working on the land or would a town job be better? Are the bills all paid and do ya have a roof over your head. Is it a good life for your kids?
What guarentees are there in life?
Okay, off of my soapbox........


When the sun goes down I have a warm house,good food,great family,great friend's and I have'nt punched a timeclock in 20 years.I do what I want most day's and if I'm not in the mood to do anything I don't I just drive around talk smart and write check's.

Every generation has had hurdle's to jump as they change we adapt.Agriculture is changeing fast to me it's a very exciteing time to be involved in this great industry.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Denny said:
katrina said:
Please don't give up hope... There's days (sometimes weeks) that I feel the very same way..... But it's the Randys, Robertmacs, bse-testers, dennys, mikes, pprms, and to many more to mention that make me proud of what I do....... The era of the cowpuncher on the range with his cows are going by the wayside.... We are now beef producers that have to be able to account for our product.... Yeah I'm the one that it took a week for it to sink in that horses are not livestock they are considered pets...... I really feel that the cattle buisness will get better and better. We just have to hang in there... We must also remember that what works for some will not work for others..... Knowing the differance between the whiners and nay-sayers to the productive and postive folks who are working for the betterment of the beef industry.
Ask yourself what do you really want out of life??? Fresh air and working on the land or would a town job be better? Are the bills all paid and do ya have a roof over your head. Is it a good life for your kids?
What guarentees are there in life?
Okay, off of my soapbox........


When the sun goes down I have a warm house,good food,great family,great friend's and I have'nt punched a timeclock in 20 years.I do what I want most day's and if I'm not in the mood to do anything I don't I just drive around talk smart and write check's.

Every generation has had hurdle's to jump as they change we adapt.Agriculture is changeing fast to me it's a very exciteing time to be involved in this great industry.

I'm with you, Denny, I haven't punched a time clock since I graduated from college...exactly 30 years ago! :shock: :)
 

cutterone

Well-known member
Glad to see many of you are optimistic yet I didn't really get the answers I was looking for. Yes, we have gone through tough times many times before and I too love what I do and think we are doing a good job of producing a good product BUT- there is also reality. "Are you really making it or just hanging on one step ahead of the banker for better times?"
Seems to me that costs, regulations, imports, land developement and just overall cost of living is going to be the downfall of many no matter how much they love doing what they do and how good of a job they do. They will just be swept away when the dam breaks.
Mike C just posted a post about the high prediction costs of grain and the posibility that even more acres may be taken out of pasture and hay to be put into corn and beans which means yet another obsticle for beef production at least in the east and midwest and non feasable costs to "grain out" feedlot cattle to say nothing about hogs and poultry.
I truthfully feel that if this happens it won't matter because the total economy will fail everywhere and we won't be conducting business as we know it. Those of us that know how to survive will do so - even if means "packin iron" to drive off the city slickers!
 

mrj

Well-known member
Sandhusker, you said "I think the key is recognizing the challenges and preparing a defense ahead of time and placing ourselves in front of the opportunities. We also have to understand which marketing strategy maximizes our opportunities and not be afraid or ashamed to stump for what we want".

That far more accurately describes NCBA than R-CALF actions.

Excepting for the word "defense", because NCBA does not so much set up defense, as it does an offense to prepare for situations. It has been very widely acknowledged (excepting by the R-CALF types) that NCBA efforts kept BSE from being the total disaster here that it was in England.

NCBA focuses on finding experts in various fields to demonstrate and advise cattle producers on ways and means to meet change head on so we can manage it to our advantage.

NCBA leaders also provide us opportunities for learning and understanding the ENTIRE cattle/beef industry in order to better our position in that industry.

The NCBA Political Action branch gives us access to interact with Congressional leaders to show them our goals and needs and for us to learn their goals and limitations.

And that is only touching a few bases of what the more than 29,000 members of NCBA gain by working together in that organization you only choose to envy, when you could be with us, involved in advancing our industry.

R-CALF activities focus almost entirely on lawsuits and bullying lawmakers, with similar lack of success with each, from what we have seen to date.

mrj
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MRJ, 'Excepting for the word "defense", because NCBA does not so much set up defense, as it does an offense to prepare for situations. "

Seems to me Ben called NCBA and asked them what they were going to do about the threat of South American countries getting complete access to our markets. Their reply, “We believe in free trade”. That’s one hell of a strategy, there.

MRJ, "NCBA leaders also provide us opportunities for learning and understanding the ENTIRE cattle/beef industry in order to better our position in that industry."

Our position in the industry has been declining. We are receiving less and less of the consumer’s dollars spent on beef. Health and safety standards on OUR product have been lowered so that beef from competing countries can have access to our markets. We are losing market share in the protein business to chicken. Just how in the hell has our position in the industry been bettered the last 10 years or so?

MRJ, "The NCBA Political Action branch gives us access to interact with Congressional leaders to show them our goals and needs and for us to learn their goals and limitations."

I’ve seen some of the work by your PACs….. You would think that with all that interaction with Congress, NCBA would be able to provide accurate interpretations of how the farm bill would effect producers instead of publishing the bull that they did.

MRJ, "And that is only touching a few bases of what the more than 29,000 members of NCBA gain by working together in that organization you only choose to envy, when you could be with us, involved in advancing our industry."

While NCBA has claimed to represent US producers, we’ve lost market share to chicken and pork, we’re getting a smaller portion of each dollar spent on beef, we have fewer buyers to sell our cattle to, PSA has been gutted so that anything can happen to us as long as it is done in the sprit of “competition”, the cattle markets are as transparent as Mud Creek, false barriers have been added to our product by our own government and you brag about the industry being advanced?

MRJ, "R-CALF activities focus almost entirely on lawsuits and bullying lawmakers, with similar lack of success with each, from what we have seen to date."

R-CALF isn’t involved in lawsuits by choice, it’s by necessity. It’s called doing what it takes to protect your industry.

R-CALF was on the winning side of the COOL battle in spite of the attempts to derail it by NCBA and AMI. R-CALF has gotten meaningful changes and additions to the Farm Bill, usually over the head of NCBA. You’re not seeing the successes because they aren’t being mentioned in your NCBA newsletters.
 

lazy ace

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
mrj said:
It has been very widely acknowledged (....) that NCBA efforts kept BSE from being the total disaster here that it was in England.

You're delusional!!!!

I am not so sure about being delusional. I do recall looking on both websights (r-calf and ncba) and ncba had more information and press releases than r-calf. I also remember hearing what Herman said on his next weeks auction market report and it sounded like the same press release as ncba's. Whoever takes credit for it I personally think the American consumer is more educated about BSE than we ever were when it was in England.

I am sure my opinion will go over like a turd in a punch bowl but oh well.

have a cold one

lazy ace
 

mrj

Well-known member
No, RobertMac, I'm not delusional. Unfortunately for you, I can see through your agenda of pushing the perception that conventionally produced beef is inferior to your grass fed beef, therefore you insist that I don't know what I'm talking about.


mrj
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
lazy ace said:
RobertMac said:
mrj said:
It has been very widely acknowledged (....) that NCBA efforts kept BSE from being the total disaster here that it was in England.

You're delusional!!!!

I am not so sure about being delusional. I do recall looking on both websights (r-calf and ncba) and ncba had more information and press releases than r-calf. I also remember hearing what Herman said on his next weeks auction market report and it sounded like the same press release as ncba's. Whoever takes credit for it I personally think the American consumer is more educated about BSE than we ever were when it was in England.

I am sure my opinion will go over like a turd in a punch bowl but oh well.

have a cold one

lazy ace

Looking back-- I really believe that NCA/NCBA efforts did keep us from having the devestation that was found in the UK/Europe-- and they did that back in the 80's (89 I believe if I remember right) when BSE was first found by getting the government to block all import permits of cattle/MBM material from these areas and asking for a voluntary ban on MBM material in all cattle feed (even tho it wasn't made law until 1997) ....

While other countries kept importing-- the US refused to issue import permits from those BSE countries- which I think is the reason we have found none of the typical BSE (as found in the UK) except for the Washington cow that was of Canadian origin.....

Now if we hadn't been importing from Canada-and had had an honest open and transparent USDA Secretary instead of Ms Vennaman- we might have avoided all or most the multi Billion $ hit we took to the industry.... :( :mad:
 

mrj

Well-known member
OT, congratulations for your admission that NCBA had an effect, yet you dismiss their super educational Checkoff funded media presence AFTER 2003 which demonstrably helped maintain confidence in US beef in this country due to the protocols previously established at the behest of NCBA
Policy division and with cooperation industry wide, and from most other ag organizations. The two sides of NCBA worked effectively to save the producer from devastating harm.

mrj
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
mrj said:
OT, congratulations for your admission that NCBA had an effect, yet you dismiss their super educational Checkoff funded media presence AFTER 2003 which demonstrably helped maintain confidence in US beef in this country due to the protocols previously established at the behest of NCBA

I don't think the Bull Shiest they've spread to help the Packers get the border opened for their access to cheaper beef has been the truth-- and their putting Packer pocket books ahead of the US consumer, the US cattleman, and the US cattle herd health has hurt the demand for beef, while unduly endangering the US consumer, US cattle herd, and longterm viability of the US cattle industry...

Back in the 80's they had not sold their souls yet--Now they are just whores of the Multinational Corporate Packers--who now are not only endangering the US consumer, cattleman, and cattle industry- but raping the Canadian cattleman at the same time.......

Policy division and with cooperation industry wide, and from most other ag organizations. The two sides of NCBA worked effectively to save the producer from devastating harm.

mrj
 
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