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Too Much Partinship Not Enough Integrity

Tex

Well-known member
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-boykin/four-things-the-republica_b_161077.html

Keith Boykin

Keith Boykin is editor of The Daily Voice, a CNBC contributor and a BET political commentator.
Posted January 26, 2009 | 06:27 PM (EST)
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Four Things the Republicans Don't Want You to Know About the Economy
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Read More: 100 Days, Barack Obama, Budget, Job Creation, Jobs, Obama Inauguration, Republicanism, Republicans, Taxes, Politics News


In the past few weeks, I've heard lots of Republican talking heads make some pretty damning arguments about "liberal" Democratic economic policies and Barack Obama's "wasteful" spending plans. The arguments may sound convincing at first blush, but the Republicans aren't offering any serious alternatives. So I did some research and came up with a quick list of four things Republicans don't want you to know about the economy.

1. Tax cuts don't always work.

In 1929, Herbert Hoover cut marginal tax rates to the lowest level in modern history (24 percent) and the economy still collapsed. In 1982, Ronald Reagan slashed taxes to the lowest level in 50 years and, in return, unemployment soared to the highest level in 50 years. In 2001 and 2003, George Bush cut taxes twice and yet unemployment rose to 6 percent. And that's to say nothing of the 2.6 million jobs lost in the final year of the Bush administration.

Tax cuts are politically popular, but they are not a panacea for our nation's economic woes. Cutting corporate tax rates won't stimulate the economy or create new jobs if there's no demand for the goods and services that businesses produce. And cutting estate taxes and capital gains taxes will primarily benefit the wealthy. Despite the GOP claims to the contrary, when you give rich people money, there's no guarantee they will use it in ways that will trickle down to the masses. If we're going to cut taxes, then tax cuts should be targeted to businesses that hire new workers or invest in infrastructure, or they should go to middle-class Americans, who have been losing their jobs, their homes, their health care, and their savings in the Bush economy.

2. Higher taxes don't necessarily hurt.

Nobody likes to pay taxes, but don't believe the hype that tax increases on the wealthy will hurt the economy or kill jobs. In 1944, Franklin Roosevelt raised marginal tax rates to an astoundingly high 94 percent and yet we still had almost full employment (1.2 percent unemployment), thanks to the war. Taxes fell after the war, but in 1951, Harry Truman raised taxes again (from 84 to 91 percent) and yet unemployment dropped by 50 percent. In fact, from 1947 to 1973, median family income rose 2.7 percent a year, even while the top marginal tax rate was never lower than 70 percent, twice the current rate.

Perhaps the best example of the utility of tax increases comes from recent history. In 1993, Bill Clinton defied every single Republican in the House of Representatives and raised marginal tax rates to almost 40 percent. Despite GOP predictions that businesses would go bankrupt and workers would be laid off, the U.S. enjoyed the longest peacetime economic expansion in history.

That doesn't mean we need to raise taxes right now in the midst of the recession, but it does mean we shouldn't be afraid of higher marginal tax rates or of allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010. Republicans often complain that higher taxes will kill the economy, but there's not much evidence to support those fears.

3. Democrats are better at balancing the budget.

Republicans love to talk about balancing the federal budget...when somebody else is in charge of it. But during eight years of the Bush administration, we hardly heard a whimper from Republicans about balanced budgets, even as Democrats complained about the huge cost of fighting two wars and cutting taxes.

The truth is that no Republican president in my lifetime has ever balanced the budget. But the Democrats have balanced the budget five times during the same time span. Clinton did it four times and Lyndon Johnson did it once. The last Republican president to balance the budget was Eisenhower.

Yes we do need to balance the budget eventually, but this is not the right time. To do so would mean cutting government programs that serve those most at-risk in society and it would slow down the chance of recovery as the lack of government spending would contract the economy. But still, if you really want to balance the budget, the Democrats, historically speaking, are far more likely to do it.

4. Democrats create more jobs.

Republicans love to crow about the Reagan economy, but it pales in comparison to Bill Clinton's record. The U.S. economy created 21 million new jobs in the Clinton administration. That's more than the last three Republican presidents, including Ronald Reagan, combined. And despite the GOP argument that the Republican Congress deserves credit for the Clinton economy, the truth is that seven million of those jobs were created in the first two years when Democrats, in control of both houses of Congress and the White House, raised taxes with virtually no Republican support.

But it's not just Clinton. Despite the well known economic woes the country faced under Jimmy Carter, the U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from 1977 to 1980. That's more new jobs under 4 years of Carter than under 12 years of both Bush presidents combined. And for all the right-wing complaints about the failures of LBJ's "Great Society," they fail to mention that the economy created 10 million new jobs during Johnson's tenure, with a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress, while fighting the Vietnam War and authorizing a massive expansion of the welfare state to include Medicare and Medicaid.

The truth is that nobody has all the answers to our current economic problems. But to believe Republicans lately requires us to forget the successful history of Democratic presidents and to ignore the failure of the most recent Republican president. It was George W. Bush, after all, who squandered the Clinton surpluses, ran up the biggest deficits in history and doubled the national debt.

While we embrace President Obama's spirit of bipartisanship and unity, Democrats should not forget their history and must not let the GOP browbeat them into silence and submission.


Personally I am tired of seeing politicians hide behind what they and their party have allowed to happen. If you go for the party thing then you end up picking one group over another like you support them. Sometimes the choice between A and B is no choice at all especially when A and B both contain some rotten apples that need to be tossed.

For the last 8 years all I have seen from Republicans is talk about their policy platform while they and the regulators they oversee sell out the public interest. Sure they started a couple of wars they couldn't manage and sure they kept the flag waving. Those kind of things don't motivate me. The republican party needs to change. Until they get rid of some of those bad apples (dems have a lot too), I will not follow a party that has been so incompetent at governing.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tex said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-boykin/four-things-the-republica_b_161077.html

Keith Boykin

Keith Boykin is editor of The Daily Voice, a CNBC contributor and a BET political commentator.
Posted January 26, 2009 | 06:27 PM (EST)
BIO Become a Fan
Get Email Alerts Bloggers' Index
Four Things the Republicans Don't Want You to Know About the Economy
RSS stumble digg reddit del.ico.us mixx.com Share this on Facebook ShareThis
Read More: 100 Days, Barack Obama, Budget, Job Creation, Jobs, Obama Inauguration, Republicanism, Republicans, Taxes, Politics News


In the past few weeks, I've heard lots of Republican talking heads make some pretty damning arguments about "liberal" Democratic economic policies and Barack Obama's "wasteful" spending plans. The arguments may sound convincing at first blush, but the Republicans aren't offering any serious alternatives. So I did some research and came up with a quick list of four things Republicans don't want you to know about the economy.

1. Tax cuts don't always work.

In 1929, Herbert Hoover cut marginal tax rates to the lowest level in modern history (24 percent) and the economy still collapsed. In 1982, Ronald Reagan slashed taxes to the lowest level in 50 years and, in return, unemployment soared to the highest level in 50 years. In 2001 and 2003, George Bush cut taxes twice and yet unemployment rose to 6 percent. And that's to say nothing of the 2.6 million jobs lost in the final year of the Bush administration.

Tax cuts are politically popular, but they are not a panacea for our nation's economic woes. Cutting corporate tax rates won't stimulate the economy or create new jobs if there's no demand for the goods and services that businesses produce. And cutting estate taxes and capital gains taxes will primarily benefit the wealthy. Despite the GOP claims to the contrary, when you give rich people money, there's no guarantee they will use it in ways that will trickle down to the masses. If we're going to cut taxes, then tax cuts should be targeted to businesses that hire new workers or invest in infrastructure, or they should go to middle-class Americans, who have been losing their jobs, their homes, their health care, and their savings in the Bush economy.

2. Higher taxes don't necessarily hurt.

Nobody likes to pay taxes, but don't believe the hype that tax increases on the wealthy will hurt the economy or kill jobs. In 1944, Franklin Roosevelt raised marginal tax rates to an astoundingly high 94 percent and yet we still had almost full employment (1.2 percent unemployment), thanks to the war. Taxes fell after the war, but in 1951, Harry Truman raised taxes again (from 84 to 91 percent) and yet unemployment dropped by 50 percent. In fact, from 1947 to 1973, median family income rose 2.7 percent a year, even while the top marginal tax rate was never lower than 70 percent, twice the current rate.

Perhaps the best example of the utility of tax increases comes from recent history. In 1993, Bill Clinton defied every single Republican in the House of Representatives and raised marginal tax rates to almost 40 percent. Despite GOP predictions that businesses would go bankrupt and workers would be laid off, the U.S. enjoyed the longest peacetime economic expansion in history.

That doesn't mean we need to raise taxes right now in the midst of the recession, but it does mean we shouldn't be afraid of higher marginal tax rates or of allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010. Republicans often complain that higher taxes will kill the economy, but there's not much evidence to support those fears.

3. Democrats are better at balancing the budget.

Republicans love to talk about balancing the federal budget...when somebody else is in charge of it. But during eight years of the Bush administration, we hardly heard a whimper from Republicans about balanced budgets, even as Democrats complained about the huge cost of fighting two wars and cutting taxes.

The truth is that no Republican president in my lifetime has ever balanced the budget. But the Democrats have balanced the budget five times during the same time span. Clinton did it four times and Lyndon Johnson did it once. The last Republican president to balance the budget was Eisenhower.

Yes we do need to balance the budget eventually, but this is not the right time. To do so would mean cutting government programs that serve those most at-risk in society and it would slow down the chance of recovery as the lack of government spending would contract the economy. But still, if you really want to balance the budget, the Democrats, historically speaking, are far more likely to do it.

4. Democrats create more jobs.

Republicans love to crow about the Reagan economy, but it pales in comparison to Bill Clinton's record. The U.S. economy created 21 million new jobs in the Clinton administration. That's more than the last three Republican presidents, including Ronald Reagan, combined. And despite the GOP argument that the Republican Congress deserves credit for the Clinton economy, the truth is that seven million of those jobs were created in the first two years when Democrats, in control of both houses of Congress and the White House, raised taxes with virtually no Republican support.

But it's not just Clinton. Despite the well known economic woes the country faced under Jimmy Carter, the U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from 1977 to 1980. That's more new jobs under 4 years of Carter than under 12 years of both Bush presidents combined. And for all the right-wing complaints about the failures of LBJ's "Great Society," they fail to mention that the economy created 10 million new jobs during Johnson's tenure, with a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress, while fighting the Vietnam War and authorizing a massive expansion of the welfare state to include Medicare and Medicaid.

The truth is that nobody has all the answers to our current economic problems. But to believe Republicans lately requires us to forget the successful history of Democratic presidents and to ignore the failure of the most recent Republican president. It was George W. Bush, after all, who squandered the Clinton surpluses, ran up the biggest deficits in history and doubled the national debt.

While we embrace President Obama's spirit of bipartisanship and unity, Democrats should not forget their history and must not let the GOP browbeat them into silence and submission.


Personally I am tired of seeing politicians hide behind what they and their party have allowed to happen. If you go for the party thing then you end up picking one group over another like you support them. Sometimes the choice between A and B is no choice at all especially when A and B both contain some rotten apples that need to be tossed.

For the last 8 years all I have seen from Republicans is talk about their policy platform while they and the regulators they oversee sell out the public interest. Sure they started a couple of wars they couldn't manage and sure they kept the flag waving. Those kind of things don't motivate me. The republican party needs to change. Until they get rid of some of those bad apples (dems have a lot too), I will not follow a party that has been so incompetent at governing.

AMEN-- but Tex- you're not supposed to bring the past fiasco of an Administration up on this site- they don't want to accept it- talk about it- or even admit it to themselves... :wink:
 

Steve

Well-known member
if it isn't about partisan politics why are you two not slamming the Obama administration for hiring a tax cheat and getting ready for the biggest deficit in history? or do you lack of integrity as well..


:roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
if it isn't about partisan politics why are you two not slamming the Obama administration for hiring a tax cheat and getting ready for the biggest deficit in history? or do you lack of integrity as well..


:roll:

I think I've explained the tax issue numerous times-- overlooking/making a mistake in an overly complex tax law is not the same as what Foreclosure Phils foreign Bank did in helping the wealthy hide their money in foreign accounts :( ...I'd preferred he had no problems- but just like most of the Senate believed- he may be one of the only conservative competent Treasury Secretary's Obama would pick- that can handle the job ahead..

As far as the deficit-- you kind of sound like Rep Boehner- and as the folks in the coffee shop said when he was screaming about deficit spending on TV the other day- why didn't he say something 5 years ago when GW was in the middle of his drunken sailor record deficit spending that helped get us in the position we're in :???:

I truly believe that between GW's incompetence and mishandling/refusal of regulation or law enforcement over the Corporates- the country is in such bad economic shape that unless we make a major spending effort- geared toward those suffering the worst- the middle and lower incomes- the whole country will end up in chaos and implosion...

I don't believe in the trickle down theory....As we've seen it all trickled into some Fatcats pockets in multimillion dollar salaries and even larger golden parachutes after they run their company/stockholders into ruin...

Remember I gave GW the benefit of the doubt for the first 4 years of his reign- even tho he deviated greatly from his campaign promises and the direction I thought he'd take the country...And then after I began openly questioning and criticizing his direction/policy- I've been right on almost all the predictions of what he would do to the economy, US international standing, neutering of the Repub Party, and what the election results would be if he didn't change direction...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I don't believe in the trickle down theory....As we've seen it all trickled into some Fatcats pockets in multimillion dollar salaries and even larger golden parachutes after they run their company/stockholders into ruin...

Which means you don't believe in Capitalism, you believe in Socialism!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
I don't believe in the trickle down theory....As we've seen it all trickled into some Fatcats pockets in multimillion dollar salaries and even larger golden parachutes after they run their company/stockholders into ruin...

Which means you don't believe in Capitalism, you believe in Socialism!

True Capitalism and the Free Market System hasn't existed in the US since 1789-- when the US had a war deficit bill to repay- and Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton proposed a tax on Whiskey and the carriage makers- Congress passed it- and George Washington ( who didn't like it, but made a deal to sign it if the National Capitol was moved from NYC to his native Virginia) signed it....

From then on- all business- all trade have been influenced by government involvement.....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I just find it funny that you preach "Capitalism" when it comes to you as a rancher, and then are against it, when it comes to other businesses!

the stimulus that you are preaching, is nothing more than a "welfare" program on steroids!
 

Steve

Well-known member
OT
I don't believe in the trickle down theory....As we've seen it all trickled into some Fatcats pockets in multimillion dollar salaries and even larger golden parachutes after they run their company/stockholders into ruin...

yet you seem to be supporting "direct payment" to the fat cats...by supporting the new bailout package..

I didn't like the first bail out..as it was a direct payment to inept corporation "fat cats"

and I think doing more is dangerous to give then the second helping, considering the results of the first course of the Democratic/Bush package...

I can easily say Bush, McCain the entire democratic leadership and Obama were dead wrong in giving the bail out then.. and I can say this one is a mistake as well...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
I just find it funny that you preach "Capitalism" when it comes to you as a rancher, and then are against it, when it comes to other businesses!

the stimulus that you are preaching, is nothing more than a "welfare" program on steroids!

Instead do you and Sandhusker want to go out and man the Breadlines for the over million people that have now lost their jobs- and what is predicted could easily be double digit unemployment...
Maybe you'll move a couple families into your house so they don't freeze next winter :???: Or won't mind paying more for their health care when their insurance runs out :???:

As far as the cattle industry- it is one of the best examples of what has nearly become "corporate fascism"-a cartel- that for the last 15 years with a revolving door between the corporate management and the USDA- with all laws being made to favor the corporate world...

Hopefully some of that is about to end...The Business World got what they wanted- free run with little rules or regulation- and they failed miserably...That is also shown with the Packers/USDA and the Packers self policing for quality/health control-- which has resulted in illness's, deaths, and recall after recall...

They're no different than a bunch of little kids- their GREED over INTEGRITY decisions mean that they will have to have a babysitter....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Cut taxes and businesses will stay, grow, and employ more people. Give businesses a reason to hire somebody. The people that make jobs don't want to hear about "spreading the wealth" and they don't like paying nearly 40% in taxes. In short, get rid of the damn liberals.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
OT
I don't believe in the trickle down theory....As we've seen it all trickled into some Fatcats pockets in multimillion dollar salaries and even larger golden parachutes after they run their company/stockholders into ruin...

yet you seem to be supporting "direct payment" to the fat cats...by supporting the new bailout package..

I didn't like the first bail out..as it was a direct payment to inept corporation "fat cats"

and I think doing more is dangerous to give then the second helping, considering the results of the first course of the Democratic/Bush package...

I can easily say Bush, McCain the entire democratic leadership and Obama were dead wrong in giving the bail out then.. and I can say this one is a mistake as well...

I agree with not liking the way the bailout was handled....Paulson/Bush promised transparency and regulation on how it would be handled- but have given none...

I heard on TV today that Obama has authorized some more of the remaining money to be divvied out-- but that it all went to small banks (I think $100 Million) was the largest awards-- and with the restriction it has to be used to make small business loans...
That is where the money needs to go- and with the type restrictions it needs-- not just handing it out to any old Wall Street Buddy with a handout because he's a few Billion $ short on getting his golden parachute- or needs another million or two to remodel his office :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Cut taxes and businesses will stay, grow, and employ more people. Give businesses a reason to hire somebody. The people that make jobs don't want to hear about "spreading the wealth" and they don't like paying nearly 40% in taxes. In short, get rid of the damn liberals.

They tried that for the last 8 years- didn't work...The Fatcats turned the faucet closed on the trickle down- and stuck it all in their pockets and ran with it.....

Now- we as taxpayers and they as business both have to pay the consequences for their GREED.....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Exactly Sandhusker. If you want to drive alternative energy, let's say wind turbines, you don't pay workers to dig holes, with tax dollars, you give the ones with the incentive to build the turbines a reason to co-ordinate the construction etc. Give them so many millions for so many turbines. They will see the payoff in the years to come with being paid for the electricity generated.

So they will spend the money to create jobs! And not have to purchase it from other countries like OT is preaching!

Oh by the way OT, if you build the turbines, you will need new power lines. But like Obama, he's going to build the transmission lines first and hope someone builds the electricity source to travel them.

Kind of like your Montana mass transit, in a lesser populated state.
 

Tex

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
I don't believe in the trickle down theory....As we've seen it all trickled into some Fatcats pockets in multimillion dollar salaries and even larger golden parachutes after they run their company/stockholders into ruin...

Which means you don't believe in Capitalism, you believe in Socialism!

hypo, what are you saying here? Do you have to support a system that gives undue money to people running companies into the ground to be a capitalist?

Do you not think that this whole bailout mess initiated by the Bush administration is socialist---and from the leader of the republican party?

You do not have to believe in trickle down to be a capitalist. You just have to believe in trickle through. Some people have fooled you into believing that trickle down is the answer and not trickle through. Trickle down means it has to come from above and trickle through means it has to trickle through everyone's pocket, not just a select group from above.

We can go through what is happening with excess govt. spending right and why some think it is the answer to the economic crisis when looking at it from a historical sense. You might want to familiarize yourself with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money . We might be too far away from fundamentals for that to be effective but only time will tell.
 
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