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Top 10 Reasons Against Mandatory Animal ID

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ocm

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Top 10 Reasons Against Mandatory Animal ID

10. Liability Problem. With traceback in place meat packing companies with an array of corporate lawyers could easily argue for a misplaced liability back along the line to the producer.

9. No Clear Congressional Directive. Currently all animal i.d. efforts are moving forward under directives of the USDA. No specific Congressional action has been taken that has been subjected to public debate on the issue of animal i.d.

8. Information Not Passed to the Consumer. In contrast to country of origin labeling legislation, animal i.d. information will stop at the meatpacker. It will not be used to inform the consumer where their meat came from.

7. No Economic Benefit with Mandatory ID. Basic economics tells us that if all cattle are tagged and tracked then there will be no premium for source verified cattle.

6. No Government Sanctioned Monopoly Wanted. One proposal for a national animal i.d. database is for a privately operated consortium to run the database. That consortium would be a monopoly sanctioned by the government.

5. Freedom of Association. If a single private consortium controls a national animal i.d. database, then those who choose not to associate with the consortium would be disenfranchised. They would not be free to disassociate with the consortium if they wanted to have a say in its operation.

4. No Cost/Benefit Analysis. Too many questions remain unanswered as to actual costs and real benefits.

3. States’ Rights. Tracking animal movements is a state job. We don’t need any more federal government intrusion in our industry than is necessary.

2. It’s Not Necessary. The USDA has failed to prove that existing state programs can never adequately serve the herd health and disease tracking goals that are proper for the U.S. cattle industry.

1. It Doesn’t Work. The USDA has not proven that a mandatory animal i.d. program will provide the results the agency says it will. Field tests have proven the many shortcomings of proposed systems.
 

Karl

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Now, if there is a mandatory Animal I.D. system will that means that the government wants to know when, where and who moved my cows, or is that an extreme thought if they are going to track animal movements. Just probing everyones mind.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Reasons or excuses?

Seems to me that I read that Japan is doing quite nicely with it.

Sounds more to me like somebody is afraid that it might work just all too well.
 
A

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Maple Leaf Angus said:
Reasons or excuses?

Seems to me that I read that Japan is doing quite nicely with it.

Sounds more to me like somebody is afraid that it might work just all too well.

I doubt if Japan is even close to here in comparison in how they run and market cattle....
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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and the biggest reason........


"we dont wanna be like the Canadians and beable to track cattle with ease"
 

ocm

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Manitoba_Rancher said:
and the biggest reason........


"we dont wanna be like the Canadians and beable to track cattle with ease"

We already track cattle on the state level.

The State of Washington (state vets office) knew before Ann Veneman stepped to the podium on Dec 23, 2003 that the cow in question was from Canada. It took our USDA several days to figure it out.

How could it be an improvement to turn ID over to the Feds?
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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OCM-

The only damn reason they knew the cow was from Canada was because she had a Canadian tag. You may be able to blow your smoke up some peoples butts on here but not mine. :mad:
 

cowsense

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OCM- You can drag your heels, B#tch and sound off with all kinds of rhetoric, but you are setting your producers up for a major wreck. There's an easy choice; set up a producer appointed;producer run agency that producers can live with or have a GOVERNMENT program enforced on you in the event of a major disease outbreak! Believe me it can happen (witness Britain and it's expensive cattle passport system).
Our industry was very proactive in setting up the CCIA (Can. Cattle Identification Agency) a nonprofit company set up by industry and run by a board that includes all parts of the industry and regulated by government. Sure there was lots of opposition and there were mistakes made but the process works. The database is set up to maintain client confidentiality and allows an almost immediate access for federal vets to determine the home herd of an infected animal. Compare that to tracking brand and sale manifests trying to guess if you even have the proper animal or herd of origin. Sure there's an added cost to the producer but many feel after BSE that it is a responsibility and is part of a good stewardship program!
As for an economic benefit there is a premium being paid already for cattle carrying breed specific tags and some packers are offering a significant premium for age verified cattle. This is just touching the tip of what can be accomplished through the use of ID tags. New generation tags will simplify brand inspection at all stages, help eliminate ownership mixups and if desired can be used to track carcass information as well as almost anything that industry should decide is of value!
 

ocm

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cowsense said:
OCM- You can drag your heels, B#tch and sound off with all kinds of rhetoric, but you are setting your producers up for a major wreck. There's an easy choice; set up a producer appointed;producer run agency that producers can live with or have a GOVERNMENT program enforced on you in the event of a major disease outbreak! Believe me it can happen (witness Britain and it's expensive cattle passport system).
Our industry was very proactive in setting up the CCIA (Can. Cattle Identification Agency) a nonprofit company set up by industry and run by a board that includes all parts of the industry and regulated by government. Sure there was lots of opposition and there were mistakes made but the process works. The database is set up to maintain client confidentiality and allows an almost immediate access for federal vets to determine the home herd of an infected animal. Compare that to tracking brand and sale manifests trying to guess if you even have the proper animal or herd of origin. Sure there's an added cost to the producer but many feel after BSE that it is a responsibility and is part of a good stewardship program!
As for an economic benefit there is a premium being paid already for cattle carrying breed specific tags and some packers are offering a significant premium for age verified cattle. This is just touching the tip of what can be accomplished through the use of ID tags. New generation tags will simplify brand inspection at all stages, help eliminate ownership mixups and if desired can be used to track carcass information as well as almost anything that industry should decide is of value!

Run your own country any way you want. Ours is a representative republic. Our states have tracking programs. Granted they can be improved some. Tags get lost, misread, etc. Reread point 1. above. Why pay for something that doesn't work. Are you telling me that Canada's ID program is 100% effective in tracking animals? Are you telling me it doesn't slow down commerce at all?

NOBODY has DEMONSTRATED what the results are that we need in an ID program. They have just decreed that we need it. I'm still waiting for a cost/benefit analysis. Any RATIONAL business would do one before undertaking such any activity. All the "benefits" of ID only argue why it should be voluntary.

PS Is there something in NAFTA that would give Canada (or Canadians) a right to say how we do our ID programs?
 

Big Muddy rancher

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ocm said:
cowsense said:
OCM- You can drag your heels, B#tch and sound off with all kinds of rhetoric, but you are setting your producers up for a major wreck. There's an easy choice; set up a producer appointed;producer run agency that producers can live with or have a GOVERNMENT program enforced on you in the event of a major disease outbreak! Believe me it can happen (witness Britain and it's expensive cattle passport system).
Our industry was very proactive in setting up the CCIA (Can. Cattle Identification Agency) a nonprofit company set up by industry and run by a board that includes all parts of the industry and regulated by government. Sure there was lots of opposition and there were mistakes made but the process works. The database is set up to maintain client confidentiality and allows an almost immediate access for federal vets to determine the home herd of an infected animal. Compare that to tracking brand and sale manifests trying to guess if you even have the proper animal or herd of origin. Sure there's an added cost to the producer but many feel after BSE that it is a responsibility and is part of a good stewardship program!
As for an economic benefit there is a premium being paid already for cattle carrying breed specific tags and some packers are offering a significant premium for age verified cattle. This is just touching the tip of what can be accomplished through the use of ID tags. New generation tags will simplify brand inspection at all stages, help eliminate ownership mixups and if desired can be used to track carcass information as well as almost anything that industry should decide is of value!

Run your own country any way you want. Ours is a representative republic. Our states have tracking programs. Granted they can be improved some. Tags get lost, misread, etc. Reread point 1. above. Why pay for something that doesn't work. Are you telling me that Canada's ID program is 100% effective in tracking animals? Are you telling me it doesn't slow down commerce at all?

NOBODY has DEMONSTRATED what the results are that we need in an ID program. They have just decreed that we need it. I'm still waiting for a cost/benefit analysis. Any RATIONAL business would do one before undertaking such any activity. All the "benefits" of ID only argue why it should be voluntary.

PS Is there something in NAFTA that would give Canada (or Canadians) a right to say how we do our ID programs?


You sound like Archie Shaver.
 

cowsense

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OCM- who do you represent in your republic? Salebarns or producers :???: We had producers up here with attitudes like yours......many of them have gone broke or quit because they couldn't understand the new business realities!
 

Karl

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To what extreme then will we go to source and age verify these cattle then. To the point we loose all control or what? You cant track every step the animal takes. A little tracking is fine with me but its the extremes that scare me.
 

cowsense

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Karl: I definitely share your concern and that is why IT is so important that actual cattle producers design and control the program. That is the only way you can maintain an affordable program that addresses the basics of traceback technology and other options your industry mandate feels it needs!
 

ocm

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cowsense said:
OCM- who do you represent in your republic? Salebarns or producers :???: We had producers up here with attitudes like yours......many of them have gone broke or quit because they couldn't understand the new business realities!


What is good for me as an individual producer to do is not necessarily something that should be imposed by the federal government.

I am far more cutting edge than you might imagine.

What you don't understand is the reality of the US Constitution.

Congress has not voted on ID. Should the USDA just dictate it? Oh, guess what, national ID for people is next. Then they can track our movements for national security purposes.

Meanwhile we create a national database repository that terrorists ( like a Congressional aide PETA member) can break in to and figure out from cattle movements just exactly the best way to do the most damage.

Now what is this NATIONAL ID supposed to accomplish???
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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OCM,


You keep rambling on and on, I m beginning to think you dont know what the heck your talking about... :roll:
 

ocm

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Manitoba_Rancher said:
OCM,


You keep rambling on and on, I m beginning to think you dont know what the heck your talking about... :roll:

Columbo
 

Tam

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ocm said:
cowsense said:
OCM- who do you represent in your republic? Salebarns or producers :???: We had producers up here with attitudes like yours......many of them have gone broke or quit because they couldn't understand the new business realities!


What is good for me as an individual producer to do is not necessarily something that should be imposed by the federal government.

I am far more cutting edge than you might imagine.

What you don't understand is the reality of the US Constitution.

Congress has not voted on ID. Should the USDA just dictate it? Oh, guess what, national ID for people is next. Then they can track our movements for national security purposes.

Meanwhile we create a national database repository that terrorists ( like a Congressional aide PETA member) can break in to and figure out from cattle movements just exactly the best way to do the most damage.

Now what is this NATIONAL ID supposed to accomplish???

:roll: :roll: ocm do you see black things flying around your air space. :wink:
 

ocm

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Tam said:
ocm said:
cowsense said:
OCM- who do you represent in your republic? Salebarns or producers :???: We had producers up here with attitudes like yours......many of them have gone broke or quit because they couldn't understand the new business realities!


What is good for me as an individual producer to do is not necessarily something that should be imposed by the federal government.

I am far more cutting edge than you might imagine.

What you don't understand is the reality of the US Constitution.

Congress has not voted on ID. Should the USDA just dictate it? Oh, guess what, national ID for people is next. Then they can track our movements for national security purposes.

Meanwhile we create a national database repository that terrorists ( like a Congressional aide PETA member) can break in to and figure out from cattle movements just exactly the best way to do the most damage.

Now what is this NATIONAL ID supposed to accomplish???

:roll: :roll: ocm do you see black things flying around your air space. :wink:

Only when I don't eat right.
 
A

Anonymous

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Top 10 Reasons Against Mandatory Animal ID

10. Liability Problem. With traceback in place meat packing companies with an array of corporate lawyers could easily argue for a misplaced liability back along the line to the producer.

They could do the same thing now within the many source verified branded beef programs. This dog won't hunt.


9. No Clear Congressional Directive. Currently all animal i.d. efforts are moving forward under directives of the USDA. No specific Congressional action has been taken that has been subjected to public debate on the issue of animal i.d.

Kind of a moot point if you oppose Mandatory ID?


8. Information Not Passed to the Consumer. In contrast to country of origin labeling legislation, animal i.d. information will stop at the meatpacker. It will not be used to inform the consumer where their meat came from.

I guess you should have thought about that when you banned "M"ID from "M"COOL.


7. No Economic Benefit with Mandatory ID. Basic economics tells us that if all cattle are tagged and tracked then there will be no premium for source verified cattle.

Now there's some real brilliance. If source verification did not have value to the consumer that was passed on to the producer, how can you explain the fact that some grids are offering premiums for source verification? Why would that value disappear if all cattle were source verified? Either source verification has value for all cattle or it has value for no cattle. The fact that grid premiums are allowed for source verified cattle proves it has value to the consumer. This dog wont hunt.


6. No Government Sanctioned Monopoly Wanted. One proposal for a national animal i.d. database is for a privately operated consortium to run the database. That consortium would be a monopoly sanctioned by the government.

Consortium monopoly? Is that like collective singles? LOL!

All that would be required is certain methods of ID and the database could be run through the FSA offices or NRCS.


5. Freedom of Association. If a single private consortium controls a national animal i.d. database, then those who choose not to associate with the consortium would be disenfranchised. They would not be free to disassociate with the consortium if they wanted to have a say in its operation.

I agree. Those who choose not to associate with the consortium should be able to sell their cattle as "non source verified" beef and reap the benefits of their independence.


4. No Cost/Benefit Analysis. Too many questions remain unanswered as to actual costs and real benefits.

Where was this cost/benefit concern with your flawed "M"COOL law? What a bunch of hypocrites!


3. States’ Rights. Tracking animal movements is a state job. We don’t need any more federal government intrusion in our industry than is necessary.

HAHAHAHA! Listen to that! This coming from those who support "M"COOL, "M"PRICE REPORTING, and the captive supply reform act to allow the government to pick and choose who can and who cannot own cattle and how those cattle will be marketed?

Who do you think your kidding you government mandate loving hypocrites.


2. It’s Not Necessary. The USDA has failed to prove that existing state programs can never adequately serve the herd health and disease tracking goals that are proper for the U.S. cattle industry.

Tell that to Canada. Existing state programs? What existing state programs exist in non brand inspection areas? What about brand duplications when cattle cross state lines? This must be coming from those who have never seen the world beyond their own brand inspection areas.


1. It Doesn’t Work. The USDA has not proven that a mandatory animal i.d. program will provide the results the agency says it will. Field tests have proven the many shortcomings of proposed systems.

That's absolutely untrue. Canada proved it worked. Source verified branded beef programs are making it work.

How ironic that those who INSISTED that consumers have the right to know where their beef comes from have 10 reasons not to support "M"ID.

Talk is so cheap!


I oppose Mandatory ID because Voluntary ID is a better option. Let those who are unwilling to ID their cattle suffer the consequences in the marketing options that will be available for their cattle. Nobody should be forced to meet consumer demands against their will. Unlike the beef checkoff, at least here the blamers who choose to opt out would not be hurting those who want to move this industry forward. Their cattle could be priced according to their non source verified value to the consumer. Long live the free enterprise system.



~SH~
 

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