I've listened to a lot of economic bull on this session, so here comes so more.. I think that the fact that President Clinton broke with tradition and criticized Pres. Bush for running up mushrooming deficits was the most telling economic factor to hit the news lately. He made it perfectly clear to the nation that the only thing keeping our govt. afloat is the fact that all the nations that we have a huge trade deficit with invest their money back into our govt securitys. So we really don't own our govt. anymore. This has a lot of ramifications. First of all it causes the dollar to loose value. It also means we have no clout at the bargining table. So why should Japan take our beef? What can't threaten with trade retaliation because they could cash in their treasury bills and poof we'd have no govt. Same goes for China and Korea. So they essentially have an ax over our head and can keep trading to their advantage. I've heard a lot of complaints about Canadian beef disrupting our markets on this website. But if we are not able to stop the twin deficits from mushrooming I wonder if they will want to sell us beef for worthless dollars. I think the thing all you so called economists are overlooking is the value of the dollar. What good does it do to try and make more money if it keeps getting more worthless? I think this is the issue that will effect us and our children for a long time and I see no way out of the dilema. Our trading partners are too smart to let us start to balance trade and they have the clout. So what next?
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Trade Nightmare
- Thread starter cedardell
- Start date
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Sandhusker
Well-known member
You raise some very good points, Cedardell. I'd like to add all this one-way trade that is going to China and what China is/can do to us with all the cash we are filling their pockets with.
katrina
Well-known member
I hate to rain on you guys parade, but Clinton is full of bull****. There is no proof of his accusations. He has an agenda, so don't believe much of what you see on the tv. :wink:
adventureman
Active member
No Katrina, I totally agree with cedardell. I heard an economist from a Canadian commodity brokerage speak at the Sask Cattle Feeders convention last spring. He made the exact same argument as cedardell just summarized. It just isn't Clinton and the Democrats who have realized what is going on. This isn't a conspiracy theory or the the rantings of someone with a hidden agenda, it is what is really happening in the real world.
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Mike
Well-known member
If Clinton's analysis is correct.........................why was he so instrumental in acquiring MFN status for China?
Red China in California
The Encroachment of COSCO
by David Blalock
By now it should be no surprise that the Clinton administration and Red China have similar interests, enhanced by the Chinese monies donated to Clinton and Gore for the last election campaign. It still amazes that very little actually appears in the American press about this ongoing issue, but that is another story.
In 1998, under the recommendations of Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) and Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-California), special legislation was passed to prevent the China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO), a front for the Red Chinese government's espionage machine overseas, from taking over the abandoned Long Beach Naval Station in southern California. This takeover of American soil by a Chinese intelligence front was sanctioned and encouraged by the Clinton administration. COSCO, foiled with that attempt, has now set its sights on gaining a "private berth" in the Port of Long Beach itself. This will protect the company from public scrutiny and, in effect, isolate it from U.S. authority. COSCO already uses Pier J at the Port of Long Beach.
COSCO is also established in the Panama Canal Zone, having gained a significant foothold on the North American continent without resistance. The Panamanian government, starved for money and unable to depend on U.S. support even after the ouster of Manuel Noriega, turned to the nearest source of funds, Red China, to rebuild its infrastructure after Operation Just Cause. The Clinton Administration, by ignoring Panama's needs, insured the installation of a hostile government's intelligence agency in Central America.
In the years we call "after the Cold War" there is a colder war ongoing, a war of the subliminal. COSCO has been connected to the supply of AK-47s to Los Angeles street gangs. The Clinton administration views China not only as a political supporter, but as a customer for political and economic favor. Meanwhile, the last bastion of democratic interest in the Chinese theater, Taiwan, is left out to dry.
It's time the American people stopped taking it for granted that the American media is giving them the full picture, especially concerning global political manuevering. China is a real threat to Europe and the Americas. This is obvious from their recent saber-rattling at Taiwan and their aggressive moves to establish themselves physical presences on the North and South American continents. Get informed. Wake up.
For further reading:
On the proliferation of Red Chinese influence in America and overseas (The Cox Report) (http://www.house.gov/coxreport)
Canadian Senate Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs (VANCOUVER, Thursday, February 6, 1997) (http://www.parl.gc.ca/english/senate/com-e/fore-e/20eva-e.htm)
Visit COSCO's Home Page to see the extent of their influence in Asia and overseas (http://www.cosco.com.hk)
SPECIAL REPORT of the SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE UNITED STATES SENATE, JANUARY 4, 1995 TO OCTOBER 3, 1996 (http://www.emergency.com/int03.htm#VIII)
Red China in California
The Encroachment of COSCO
by David Blalock
By now it should be no surprise that the Clinton administration and Red China have similar interests, enhanced by the Chinese monies donated to Clinton and Gore for the last election campaign. It still amazes that very little actually appears in the American press about this ongoing issue, but that is another story.
In 1998, under the recommendations of Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) and Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-California), special legislation was passed to prevent the China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO), a front for the Red Chinese government's espionage machine overseas, from taking over the abandoned Long Beach Naval Station in southern California. This takeover of American soil by a Chinese intelligence front was sanctioned and encouraged by the Clinton administration. COSCO, foiled with that attempt, has now set its sights on gaining a "private berth" in the Port of Long Beach itself. This will protect the company from public scrutiny and, in effect, isolate it from U.S. authority. COSCO already uses Pier J at the Port of Long Beach.
COSCO is also established in the Panama Canal Zone, having gained a significant foothold on the North American continent without resistance. The Panamanian government, starved for money and unable to depend on U.S. support even after the ouster of Manuel Noriega, turned to the nearest source of funds, Red China, to rebuild its infrastructure after Operation Just Cause. The Clinton Administration, by ignoring Panama's needs, insured the installation of a hostile government's intelligence agency in Central America.
In the years we call "after the Cold War" there is a colder war ongoing, a war of the subliminal. COSCO has been connected to the supply of AK-47s to Los Angeles street gangs. The Clinton administration views China not only as a political supporter, but as a customer for political and economic favor. Meanwhile, the last bastion of democratic interest in the Chinese theater, Taiwan, is left out to dry.
It's time the American people stopped taking it for granted that the American media is giving them the full picture, especially concerning global political manuevering. China is a real threat to Europe and the Americas. This is obvious from their recent saber-rattling at Taiwan and their aggressive moves to establish themselves physical presences on the North and South American continents. Get informed. Wake up.
For further reading:
On the proliferation of Red Chinese influence in America and overseas (The Cox Report) (http://www.house.gov/coxreport)
Canadian Senate Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs (VANCOUVER, Thursday, February 6, 1997) (http://www.parl.gc.ca/english/senate/com-e/fore-e/20eva-e.htm)
Visit COSCO's Home Page to see the extent of their influence in Asia and overseas (http://www.cosco.com.hk)
SPECIAL REPORT of the SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE UNITED STATES SENATE, JANUARY 4, 1995 TO OCTOBER 3, 1996 (http://www.emergency.com/int03.htm#VIII)
katrina
Well-known member
A commodity brokerage speaker.... Give me a break!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock:
adventureman
Active member
Well, if the guy is supposedly just some lowly analyst for a brokerage firm with an a worthless education in economics, how did he figure it out then? What are you're credentials Katrina? Right now I can easily see who would be most likely labeled an accurate source when it comes to the factors that influence global economies and trade.
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katrina
Well-known member
The facts:
Black homeownership is up 2 percent under President Bush.
Poverty spending is significantly higher under Bush than it was under Clinton.
Educational spending for poor school districts is higher under Bush. And the poverty rate stood at 13.7 percent halfway through Clinton's tenure.
It is 12.7 percent halfway through Bush's two terms.
This "tax cuts for the rich" business is also blatantly dishonest. It's a ruse for the secular left to institute their income redistribution scheme. Under President Clinton, the tax rate climbed higher than at any time in history except in World War II. President Bush then came in and cut taxes for everyone. Federal tax revenues will be more this year than at any time during the Clinton administration!Business is booming.
That's why. Capitalism is working. And the more money corporations and workers make, the more taxes roll in, even at the reduced rate.
Black homeownership is up 2 percent under President Bush.
Poverty spending is significantly higher under Bush than it was under Clinton.
Educational spending for poor school districts is higher under Bush. And the poverty rate stood at 13.7 percent halfway through Clinton's tenure.
It is 12.7 percent halfway through Bush's two terms.
This "tax cuts for the rich" business is also blatantly dishonest. It's a ruse for the secular left to institute their income redistribution scheme. Under President Clinton, the tax rate climbed higher than at any time in history except in World War II. President Bush then came in and cut taxes for everyone. Federal tax revenues will be more this year than at any time during the Clinton administration!Business is booming.
That's why. Capitalism is working. And the more money corporations and workers make, the more taxes roll in, even at the reduced rate.
adventureman
Active member
Katrina that is all great. But the point is that
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. Forgein governments are financing your country.nations that we have a huge trade deficit with invest their money back into our govt securitys
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katrina
Well-known member
And??????????
katrina
Well-known member
How about Ted Kennedy strait across??? Oh heck ya twisted my arm........
I'll evan through in John Kerry...
I'll evan through in John Kerry...
katrina said:How about Ted Kennedy strait across??? Oh heck ya twisted my arm........
I'll evan through in John Kerry...
The truth is, Katrina, that the U.S. is spending more money than it is taking in and some of the third world (China in particular) is financing our deficit spending. It is kind of like a credit card. As long as we can finance the outstanding balance everything seems to be okay. Too many people overextend themselves and are not able to pay back even the min. balance.
We have the real potential of an economic disaster here. The people who overextend themselves often have their house forclosed on them or are in bankruptcy court before they know what has happened. We should not wait that long. My kid's name is on that credit card the president is using as the people who have to pay it back and I want the overspending to stop.
Right now the deflationary pressures that China gives in cheaper manufactored goods is coming to an end. Cheap energy coming to an end will hasten this. Get ready to pay a lot higher interest and a less vigorous economy because of deficit spending.
Kato
Well-known member
We've bin there dun that and got the T-shirt.
This is how most of the world functions. It's just lately that your country has begun to experience the reality most of we smaller economies have lived with for years.
Your currency is the standard by which the rest are measured, so you have been somewhat insulated from the reality of the ups and downs of the international money markets. In your country the dollar is the dollar. You are not always thinking of it in terms of how it exchanges with any other currency. In our country, the value of the Canadian dollar is a national obsession. Ask any Canadian farmer what our dollar is worth today, and he'll be able to tell you. It's on the news three times a day.
Does anyone here know how many yen the U.S. dollar is valued at? We can tell you that your dollar has dropped in value, due to the fact that ours has gone up accordingly. Our dollar is not worth any more due to anything we have done, just due to the comparison with yours. BTW, we don't want a high Canadian dollar any more than you want a low American one. We've been surviving on the currency exchange for years now, and it's one of the major factors in whether we make money or not. Our prices are set in your country, but how they translate into Canadian money is out of our hands. Exchange rates can make us or break us.
We have also been through the deficit spending sprees of past governments. We're living with the hangover of it now. We've also found that part of that hangover involves a reduction of spending on agriculture. Maybe not now, but someday it will happen. You can bet the farm on it.
I don't see the gloom and doom scenario of the U.S. debt being called though. Your economy is so intertwined with pretty much every other one that to do so would bring about a total global collapse. Surely there are enough sane people on this planet to see that such a thing doesn't happen. :?
This is how most of the world functions. It's just lately that your country has begun to experience the reality most of we smaller economies have lived with for years.
Your currency is the standard by which the rest are measured, so you have been somewhat insulated from the reality of the ups and downs of the international money markets. In your country the dollar is the dollar. You are not always thinking of it in terms of how it exchanges with any other currency. In our country, the value of the Canadian dollar is a national obsession. Ask any Canadian farmer what our dollar is worth today, and he'll be able to tell you. It's on the news three times a day.
Does anyone here know how many yen the U.S. dollar is valued at? We can tell you that your dollar has dropped in value, due to the fact that ours has gone up accordingly. Our dollar is not worth any more due to anything we have done, just due to the comparison with yours. BTW, we don't want a high Canadian dollar any more than you want a low American one. We've been surviving on the currency exchange for years now, and it's one of the major factors in whether we make money or not. Our prices are set in your country, but how they translate into Canadian money is out of our hands. Exchange rates can make us or break us.
We have also been through the deficit spending sprees of past governments. We're living with the hangover of it now. We've also found that part of that hangover involves a reduction of spending on agriculture. Maybe not now, but someday it will happen. You can bet the farm on it.
I don't see the gloom and doom scenario of the U.S. debt being called though. Your economy is so intertwined with pretty much every other one that to do so would bring about a total global collapse. Surely there are enough sane people on this planet to see that such a thing doesn't happen. :?
Kato said:We've bin there dun that and got the T-shirt.
This is how most of the world functions. It's just lately that your country has begun to experience the reality most of we smaller economies have lived with for years.
Your currency is the standard by which the rest are measured, so you have been somewhat insulated from the reality of the ups and downs of the international money markets. In your country the dollar is the dollar. You are not always thinking of it in terms of how it exchanges with any other currency. In our country, the value of the Canadian dollar is a national obsession. Ask any Canadian farmer what our dollar is worth today, and he'll be able to tell you. It's on the news three times a day.
Does anyone here know how many yen the U.S. dollar is valued at? We can tell you that your dollar has dropped in value, due to the fact that ours has gone up accordingly. Our dollar is not worth any more due to anything we have done, just due to the comparison with yours. BTW, we don't want a high Canadian dollar any more than you want a low American one. We've been surviving on the currency exchange for years now, and it's one of the major factors in whether we make money or not. Our prices are set in your country, but how they translate into Canadian money is out of our hands. Exchange rates can make us or break us.
We have also been through the deficit spending sprees of past governments. We're living with the hangover of it now. We've also found that part of that hangover involves a reduction of spending on agriculture. Maybe not now, but someday it will happen. You can bet the farm on it.
I don't see the gloom and doom scenario of the U.S. debt being called though. Your economy is so intertwined with pretty much every other one that to do so would bring about a total global collapse. Surely there are enough sane people on this planet to see that such a thing doesn't happen. :?
Kato, well said.
I think my concern is with some of our current R. leadership on the hill saying "So what, we will just nationalize the debt."
In other words, spend, spend, spend, and when we have to pay back we will just say "forget it." This is the mentality of the elected officials we currently have. Why not? Everytime they get caught (on either side) they make it into a left or right argument and leave the truth behind. This is no good way to run a government that is supposed to be the leader of the free world.
From a Candian perspective, it is always the Democrats ( previous government) who make it into a political movement.
Do you think the financial trend/objective of today was started 8 or less years ago, or b4 that? It's always a problem of the present government dealing with choices that were made in the last "reign" of political power.
We are still dealing with financial/political choices made from decades ago, to blame it on the current or subsequent political party is "ignorant". How long does it take, and how much $$$, to correct the mistakes of the previous administration.
Don't forget, Governments are short sighted, they look at the next four years and what may get them elected again. (if we don't get it done this term, well there is always the next one, let's buy votes) That's where the problem lies. (it's more the competition that creates the problem than the ideology)
Wouldn't it be better to have major parties come together and construct a long term plan for financial growth, social well-being etc. A plan that wouldn't be opposed by either, cause it was developed by both.
Do you think the financial trend/objective of today was started 8 or less years ago, or b4 that? It's always a problem of the present government dealing with choices that were made in the last "reign" of political power.
We are still dealing with financial/political choices made from decades ago, to blame it on the current or subsequent political party is "ignorant". How long does it take, and how much $$$, to correct the mistakes of the previous administration.
Don't forget, Governments are short sighted, they look at the next four years and what may get them elected again. (if we don't get it done this term, well there is always the next one, let's buy votes) That's where the problem lies. (it's more the competition that creates the problem than the ideology)
Wouldn't it be better to have major parties come together and construct a long term plan for financial growth, social well-being etc. A plan that wouldn't be opposed by either, cause it was developed by both.
katrina
Well-known member
Okay, so why are China and Japan and all the other counties buying into the U.S. treasuries??? Could it be that it is the best deal around??? Why not invest at home?? There is a reason.... 8) Isn't the deficit down??? Would the war have an afffect on the deficit??? And oil consumption and hurricanes???? Oh me Oh my...... The sky is falling!!!!!!!!!! Okay I'll throw in Hillary with Ted and John.......
Murgen said:From a Candian perspective, it is always the Democrats ( previous government) who make it into a political movement.
Do you think the financial trend/objective of today was started 8 or less years ago, or b4 that? It's always a problem of the present government dealing with choices that were made in the last "reign" of political power.
We are still dealing with financial/political choices made from decades ago, to blame it on the current or subsequent political party is "ignorant". How long does it take, and how much $$$, to correct the mistakes of the previous administration.
Don't forget, Governments are short sighted, they look at the next four years and what may get them elected again. (if we don't get it done this term, well there is always the next one, let's buy votes) That's where the problem lies. (it's more the competition that creates the problem than the ideology)
Wouldn't it be better to have major parties come together and construct a long term plan for financial growth, social well-being etc. A plan that wouldn't be opposed by either, cause it was developed by both.
That seems to be what is happening in the U.S. with Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton (Hillary). Same old story. They all need to get to real work instead of riding off of the backs of the people.
Our Social Security surplus has been raided over the years by Congress and Bush wants to privatize it to keep it away from Congress's greedy hands. The only problem with that reasoning is that it was the president's hand who signed off on all that spending. Anyway, Brittain already went down that road and we know what happened.
I really think we need the president's and congress's pay and retirement benefits to be linked to their fiscal lack of responsibility. After term income from lobbying should be looked at closely too, as many of them are pulling the strings that affect the public like the change in the PSA I mentioned before.
Thank you for the comments. Sometimes it helps to get a consortium of opinions. Thanks Mike for reminding us about the nature of China. I will never forgive Clinton for giving Wang security clearance to take our launch pad technology to China all for a campaign contribution. That has to be the most successful piece of espionage ever carried out in the history of earth. According to the Pentagon that upgraded China's nuclear capability by more than 25 yrs. overnight. Then thanks to China for giving that technology to all their allies, like Noth Korea, Pakistan, and India. Now every country on earth can target us with pinpoint accuracy.
katrina said:The facts:
Black homeownership is up 2 percent under President Bush.
Poverty spending is significantly higher under Bush than it was under Clinton.
Educational spending for poor school districts is higher under Bush. And the poverty rate stood at 13.7 percent halfway through Clinton's tenure.
It is 12.7 percent halfway through Bush's two terms.
This "tax cuts for the rich" business is also blatantly dishonest. It's a ruse for the secular left to institute their income redistribution scheme. Under President Clinton, the tax rate climbed higher than at any time in history except in World War II. President Bush then came in and cut taxes for everyone. Federal tax revenues will be more this year than at any time during the Clinton administration!Business is booming.
That's why. Capitalism is working. And the more money corporations and workers make, the more taxes roll in, even at the reduced rate.
So, is that a DIRECT quotefrom Rush or did you summarize it? :roll: :roll:
