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Trade War With Canada Begins

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
MG, if there were two gas stations across the street from each other, both asking the same price for the gas, but one offering a 20% cash-back discount; which one would you fill up at?
By not answering this question I "hope' I'm annoying the heck outta ya :p Keep asking though :nod: :lol2:

By not answering the question, you're showing that you know an honest answer will reveal something about you that you don't want revealed. You're afraid to answer it honestly.

Maybe Burnt is man enough?
Do you drink heavily? Cause yikes your like an annoying old drunk that won't go away. Greg would kick my butt if I bought gas at a gas station,then he'd know I was too wussy to stand out in the freezin cold fillin up at our farm tank,that we have delivered to us by the only fuel place within 40 miles of us........shheeeshhhhh :p :wink: That answer was easy


But I'm sure burnt would answer your question for you :wink:


Oh and Sandy....DON"T ever kid yourself into thinking I'm afraid of anything you write that assumption would be gravely wrong!!!
 

burnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Oh I realize where the Bush/Clinton/Bush policies have taken us- and its sad we sold out so much of not only our sovereignty but our independence... I also now believe we need to take some major steps at ending much of this foreign dependence- especially our foreign dependence on energy sources...

Blaming your dependence on foreign energy on past administrations kinda erodes your "image" as a Libertarian, there ot. :drink: :drink: :oops: because it makes it appear that you cannot choose to act independently of the mainstream government or populace.

The only thing you can blame it on is the fact that it was easier to exploit other countries natural resources than expend the effort and energy develop your own. In other words, lazy and unmotivated.

And when you started to realize that your "dependency" led to others creating wealth at your expense, you didn't much like it.

Imagine the shock that you will feel when you wake up and realize that passing protectionist laws is not the remedy for the aforementioned root causes of your economic woes.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
Mrs.Greg said:
By not answering this question I "hope' I'm annoying the heck outta ya :p Keep asking though :nod: :lol2:

By not answering the question, you're showing that you know an honest answer will reveal something about you that you don't want revealed. You're afraid to answer it honestly.

Maybe Burnt is man enough?
Do you drink heavily? Cause yikes your like an annoying old drunk that won't go away. Greg would kick my butt if I bought gas at a gas station,then he'd know I was too wussy to stand out in the freezin cold fillin up at our farm tank,that we have delivered to us by the only fuel place within 40 miles of us........shheeeshhhhh :p :wink: That answer was easy


But I'm sure burnt would answer your question for you :wink:


Oh and Sandy....DON"T ever kid yourself into thinking I'm afraid of anything you write that assumption would be gravely wrong!!!

If you weren't afraid, why the silly diversion?

The truth is that you would gas up where you got the cash back. You would do the same for groceries, clothing, anything, because it would make sense to do that. I'm simply pointing out that a government (this applies to yours, too) that buys from the people that pay taxes to it is, in effect, getting a cash-back discount. You and burnt refuse to bring anything to challenge that (because you can't), yet you ridicule me.

Strange behavior for adults to engage in.....
 

burnt

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
The truth is that you would gas up where you got the cash back. You would do the same for groceries, clothing, anything, because it would make sense to do that. I'm simply pointing out that a government (this applies to yours, too) that buys from the people that pay taxes to it is, in effect, getting a cash-back discount. You and burnt refuse to bring anything to challenge that (because you can't), yet you ridicule me.

Strange behavior for adults to engage in.....

Oh, I am sooo sorry for acting so inappropriately. My behavior has clearly been out of line.

Judging by your block-headed contributions, I thought this was the kindergarten room so I responded accordingly.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
By not answering the question, you're showing that you know an honest answer will reveal something about you that you don't want revealed. You're afraid to answer it honestly.

Maybe Burnt is man enough?
Do you drink heavily? Cause yikes your like an annoying old drunk that won't go away. Greg would kick my butt if I bought gas at a gas station,then he'd know I was too wussy to stand out in the freezin cold fillin up at our farm tank,that we have delivered to us by the only fuel place within 40 miles of us........shheeeshhhhh :p :wink: That answer was easy


But I'm sure burnt would answer your question for you :wink:


Oh and Sandy....DON"T ever kid yourself into thinking I'm afraid of anything you write that assumption would be gravely wrong!!!

If you weren't afraid, why the silly diversion?

The truth is that you would gas up where you got the cash back. You would do the same for groceries, clothing, anything, because it would make sense to do that. I'm simply pointing out that a government (this applies to yours, too) that buys from the people that pay taxes to it is, in effect, getting a cash-back discount. You and burnt refuse to bring anything to challenge that (because you can't), yet you ridicule me.

Strange behavior for adults to engage in.....[/quot


The Buy American policy was for anyone getting bail out money. Not just government departments. Should a company close down because they can't be competitive anymore because domestic widgets are unavailable?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
burnt said:
Oldtimer said:
Oh I realize where the Bush/Clinton/Bush policies have taken us- and its sad we sold out so much of not only our sovereignty but our independence... I also now believe we need to take some major steps at ending much of this foreign dependence- especially our foreign dependence on energy sources...

Blaming your dependence on foreign energy on past administrations kinda erodes your "image" as a Libertarian, there ot. :drink: :drink: :oops: because it makes it appear that you cannot choose to act independently of the mainstream government or populace.

The only thing you can blame it on is the fact that it was easier to exploit other countries natural resources than expend the effort and energy develop your own. In other words, lazy and unmotivated.

And when you started to realize that your "dependency" led to others creating wealth at your expense, you didn't much like it.

Imagine the shock that you will feel when you wake up and realize that passing protectionist laws is not the remedy for the aforementioned root causes of your economic woes.

One person- or even one group of people are not going to solve the US energy dependence-- its going to take a commitment by all of the country and a longterm 20-30-50 year plan/policy...

Old Jimmy Carter- who I thought was an idiot when he was President- looked like a pretty intelligent man the other day when he stood in front of the Congressional hearings and all but said "I told you so"...
But like he said- every time anyone took 1 step forward- a new administration would come in and take us back 2...And now its to the point we need a major comprehensive program- that we probably are in a bad time period to pay for- but like he said its long gone past the point of pay me now or pay me later because not developing a longterm energy policy- and developing alternative energy- will eventually bankrupt the country if we do nothing....
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Sandhusker said:
By not answering the question, you're showing that you know an honest answer will reveal something about you that you don't want revealed. You're afraid to answer it honestly.

Maybe Burnt is man enough?
Do you drink heavily? Cause yikes your like an annoying old drunk that won't go away. Greg would kick my butt if I bought gas at a gas station,then he'd know I was too wussy to stand out in the freezin cold fillin up at our farm tank,that we have delivered to us by the only fuel place within 40 miles of us........shheeeshhhhh :p :wink: That answer was easy


But I'm sure burnt would answer your question for you :wink:


Oh and Sandy....DON"T ever kid yourself into thinking I'm afraid of anything you write that assumption would be gravely wrong!!!

If you weren't afraid, why the silly diversion?

The truth is that you would gas up where you got the cash back. You would do the same for groceries, clothing, anything, because it would make sense to do that. I'm simply pointing out that a government (this applies to yours, too) that buys from the people that pay taxes to it is, in effect, getting a cash-back discount. You and burnt refuse to bring anything to challenge that (because you can't), yet you ridicule me.

Strange behavior for adults to engage in.....
You have issues with self importance,probably from never leaving your home town,where the bank seems to run things in the US. In Canada we call it Narrsassitic behaviour,look that up when your bored.

In reality there's a ton to be said for loyalty,which maybe the station I've gone to for yrs and was treated right and will still go to,moneys not always the most important. Loyalty is what started this "discussion" and now I'm ending it tonight with it...I gotta work in the morning..


Nano,Nano...to you and Mogal
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Do you drink heavily? Cause yikes your like an annoying old drunk that won't go away. Greg would kick my butt if I bought gas at a gas station,then he'd know I was too wussy to stand out in the freezin cold fillin up at our farm tank,that we have delivered to us by the only fuel place within 40 miles of us........shheeeshhhhh :p :wink: That answer was easy


But I'm sure burnt would answer your question for you :wink:


Oh and Sandy....DON"T ever kid yourself into thinking I'm afraid of anything you write that assumption would be gravely wrong!!!

If you weren't afraid, why the silly diversion?

The truth is that you would gas up where you got the cash back. You would do the same for groceries, clothing, anything, because it would make sense to do that. I'm simply pointing out that a government (this applies to yours, too) that buys from the people that pay taxes to it is, in effect, getting a cash-back discount. You and burnt refuse to bring anything to challenge that (because you can't), yet you ridicule me.

Strange behavior for adults to engage in.....[/quot


The Buy American policy was for anyone getting bail out money. Not just government departments. Should a company close down because they can't be competitive anymore because domestic widgets are unavailable?

If they need bailout money, I think the competitive question has already been answered.

Of course you can't buy a domestic widget if it doesn't exist.
 

burnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
One person- or even one group of people are not going to solve the US energy dependence-- its going to take a commitment by all of the country and a longterm 20-30-50 year plan/policy...

Old Jimmy Carter- . . . . . developing alternative energy- will eventually bankrupt the country if we do nothing....

Bit of a lemming, are you?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
If you weren't afraid, why the silly diversion?

The truth is that you would gas up where you got the cash back. You would do the same for groceries, clothing, anything, because it would make sense to do that. I'm simply pointing out that a government (this applies to yours, too) that buys from the people that pay taxes to it is, in effect, getting a cash-back discount. You and burnt refuse to bring anything to challenge that (because you can't), yet you ridicule me.

Strange behavior for adults to engage in.....[/quot


The Buy American policy was for anyone getting bail out money. Not just government departments. Should a company close down because they can't be competitive anymore because domestic widgets are unavailable?

If they need bailout money, I think the competitive question has already been answered.

Of course you can't buy a domestic widget if it doesn't exist.

But if preference is given to domestic widgets in government funded projects- they may again be available...

Every local government I've been involved with (city/county/school) gave a local preference in purchasing- since these were the folks paying the taxes paying for it... The US government should be doing the same with the US taxpayers dollar too...
 

burnt

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
If they need bailout money, I think the competitive question has already been answered.

Of course you can't buy a domestic widget if it doesn't exist.

There you go displaying that faulty reasoning again. You seem to presume that the reason they need bailout money is because of foreign competition. when in all likely hood they became uncompetitive because of their own excesses and inefficiencies.

You think the country should reward THEM with bailout money just because they are American?

Perhaps your would answer this question - would a bank throw free or no-interest money at an inefficient customer when his neighbour could produce the same thing for less money? And that efficient neighbour is also borrowing money from the same bank at premium interest rates?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Every state and most larger cities have programs that give away tax credits, land, infrastructure, etc.... in order to get companies to locate there because they realize the economics of a dollar being spent in their community has an effect much larger than that dollar. Most economists will tell you that dollar bounces 5 times - and every time it bounces, taxes are skimmed off in one way or another. Cities, counties, states, etc... know this and work it, but the Federal Government can't because of "trade"? This makes sense how?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Burnt, "There you go displaying that faulty reasoning again. You seem to presume that the reason they need bailout money is because of foreign competition."

The presumption is all yours. Where did I even hint that foreign competition was the problem?

You think the country should reward THEM with bailout money just because they are American?

No, I don't. I think that companies that can't compete should be allowed to fail.

Perhaps your would answer this question - would a bank throw free or no-interest money at an inefficient customer when his neighbour could produce the same thing for less money? And that efficient neighbour is also borrowing money from the same bank at premium interest rates?

That's a poor example, a bank doesn't take a cut off of a productive company like the government does. A bank takes the same amount whether you make $50 on your calves or $150.

I don't think that the government should be held hostage by the domestic suppliers as you seem to think. If the Canadian widget is 50 cents and the US one is $1.50, clearly the public's money is better spent on the Canuck version. However, you have to realize that, because of the net effect of the purchase via the collection of taxes, that $1.50 will actually be less. How much less is for a good economist to pencil out, and that will be the decider.

We had an issue much like this in our town. We had a lot that the village was going to sell. We got two bids, one was twice the amount of the other. We accepted the lower bid. The reason was that the guy that submitted the highest bid wasn't going to do anything with the land, he just didn't want the other guy to have it. It would of turned into a weed patch. The guy with the lowest bid was going to build a business on that lot. That would increase the tax assessment of the land. That business would pump revenue into the community and create wealth. If we were measuring how much money we would have in one month, the highest bid made sense. However, we looked at the bigger picture and realized that the village would make much more money over the long haul by accepting the lower bid. This is the same concept as a government buying from those that pay taxes to it. You have to look at the bigger picture and see where the money really is going to be made/saved.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Every state and most larger cities have programs that give away tax credits, land, infrastructure, etc.... in order to get companies to locate there because they realize the economics of a dollar being spent in their community has an effect much larger than that dollar. Most economists will tell you that dollar bounces 5 times - and every time it bounces, taxes are skimmed off in one way or another. Cities, counties, states, etc... know this and work it, but the Federal Government can't because of "trade"? This makes sense how?

And that folks is some common sense. Tax credits would have done more than any stimulus plan.

In Canada, we're looking at a $37 Billion deficit in 2009-2010. Over the next 5 it will increase to $85 B. Let's look at that in relation to the US. 1/10 the population, you figure it out.

And we got that socialist universal health care etc.

Taxes , in moderation, work. Big government does not.

But taxes should be kept at home! If it makes economic sense to spend it away from home, then show the proof and go for it!
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I don't think that the government should be held hostage by the domestic suppliers as you seem to think. If the Canadian widget is 50 cents and the US one is $1.50, clearly the public's money is better spent on the Canuck version. However, you have to realize that, because of the net effect of the purchase via the collection of taxes, that $1.50 will actually be less. How much less is for a good economist to pencil out, and that will be the decider.

That depends on the taxes collected, whether they be personal, and the rate of taxes.

Lots to consider and it is obvious that Obama and his economists did not consider anything, they threw a bunch of money out the door, without doing any calculations.

exchange rate, lower cost, jobs create/taxes paid, corporate taxes paid, impact on those jobs that rely on imports etc.

They factored a certain amount by State population. If you doubt that, take a look at the number of jobs they have either "saved or created" compared to the dollars spent so far.

Take a look at the "expected" job creation by State population and dollars spent.

It would take a grade 8 education to figure out what they did.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
Nano,Nano...to you and Mogal

Have a nice day Mrs Greg!!!!

Mrs Greg I make no apology for reading or watching Bible Prophecy programs. In fact, while the electric was off for about 4 days (after our lovely storm) I read, "better than Nostradamus" by Barry Smith........ quite an eye opener and explained how the Masonry fits. Also I read, "Are you ready?" by Paul McGuire. Also Grant Jeffrey and Chuck Missler are a good read/watch and they've been on GodTv quite a bit lately.

However if you'd really like some good reading, I'd suggest the book, "Know the future" I can't say that I agree with everything he says, but he could be right. This writer will be at the Bible Prophecy Conference in June in St. Louis and I hope I'm able to go.

But don't worry Mrs. Greg the ten horns (or unions if you prefer to call them) have been formed which fulfills Daniel 7:7-8 and they intend for the North American Union to be #1 up until Wormwood (possibly Planet X?) and then WWIII, then there will be total worldwide financial collapse and it takes the antichrist 7-9 months to arise. Of course, some pastors can't agree if the USA is Mystery Babylon but it sure fits her. Now some ask why would another country annihilate the USA when she's the economic engine for all other countries??? Well, after wormwood much of the country is in chaos and ruin and wouldn't be the economic engine plus WWIII breaks out.

10 SPHERES OF INFLUENCE -- NATIONAL REORGANIZATION

1. North America
2. Western Europe
3. Japan
4. Australia, South Africa, and the rest of the market-economy of the developed world.
5. Eastern Europe, including Russia
6. Latin America
7. North Africa and the Middle East
8. Tropical Africa
9. South and Southeast Asia
10. China
The first question is "Why 10 Nation specifically?" The answer lies in a knowledge of the spiritual beliefs of the Occult. They believe that man is to be spiritually "perfected" by undergoing the process of "Illumination" by achieving a long, arduous study of "Hidden Truth". Once a man is totally perfected, he is pictured as standing "upright" next to, but uncontrolled, by his world. This perfected man is thought of as the Number 1, while the world is pictured as a zero (0). Thus, the number 10 forms this picture of perfected man standing apart from his world. The number 10 is a very important symbolic number to the occultist. ("Magic Symbols", Frederick Goodman, Brian Todd Publishing House, London, 1989, p. 46-47).

-----------------------------------------------

Makes one wonder what they have planned for the date 10/10/10???? I guess we'll find out next year. We can bet it will be a historic event.

So go ahead and laugh Mrs. Greg all you'd like to, but I've said before there's spiritual warfare going on (here's the latest book I'm trying to read online and you tell me who these people worship? and no, I cannot vouch for its accuracy so you'll have to do your own research.... I do know the writer is not a christian nor do they believe in the Bible and try to disclaim it but they have researched well these 13 families and that's why I'm reading it. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/index.htm
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
I am a little reluctant to enter into this discussion. Probably because I will be taking the side of a hateful and child acting poster in it. That being Mrs. Greg. Makes it kind of hard to side with her seeing how childish and belligerent she is being.

Seems Sandhusker has a very good point to be discussed like adults. He is making some good points and really most of you Canadians are answering him with emotion instead of intellect.

Now for my views, I attended a at a Kansas University seminar once about how to get government contracts. I actually asked the question rather Kansas Government would give favoritism to Kansas bidders over those from out of state. The lecturer explained to me that if they did that, then next thing you know Missouri would do it and businesses in Kansas would be hurt. That it would start a rocky slope to mandate such things.

I believe we are to interwoven with Canada trade to be making such strong mandates. I think contracts should be looked at with a little flexibility, say the price point is close and one is local and one is from another Country then there should be some flexibility to go with the local. But to mandate that you can not buy from Canada as a point of law. Is a very dangerous slope to be tip toeing around.

With that being said, Sandhusker does make good points as well as OT! I suggest a nicer dialog on the subject, it has some good points on both side to be analyzed instead of my school is better than your school cheering!
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Seems Sandhusker has a very good point to be discussed like adults. He is making some good points and really most of you Canadians are answering him with emotion instead of intellect.

Really? :wink:

Emotion, that wouldn't happen on PB, would it?
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
..... You have to look at the bigger picture and see where the money really is going to be made/saved.[/b]

I went to your two gas stations Sandhusker.

The one offering the 20% cash-back:
- charged $1.50 to check my oil
- their quart of oil was 50 cents more than across the street
- another 50 cents to wet the window washer (25 cents more if you wanted soap)
- there was no can to throw my garbage in
- I had to feed the washroom door a dollar to open
- the coffee was a 50 cents more
- the fuel bill had a $1.50 'processing fee" added
- I don't remember the name of the American company owning it, which is strange because there isn't that many pulling domestic oil out of the ground.

All said I think I will go back to the one NOT offering the cash-back
- it was a Co-op, 100% owned by local members
- the quart of oil and coffee were each 50 cents cheaper, there was a garbage can by the pumps, no charge for the washroom and the only other cost on the bill was the chocolate bar I picked up.
- I also had a nice chat with the young lady while she fueled me up, checked my oil and washed my windows. WARNING: emotional part~ Turns out she graduates this year and has been working here, after school for three years - adding to her college fund.

AND guess who I seen in there while I wrote a cheque out? In the back was "coffee row" (honor system for coffee) It was OT. He likely recognized the vehicles of the regulars here (while getting his 'cash-back' across the street) and popped over to tell them about the latest shirt-tail riders.

So - looking at the big picture: I saved money and made the member's dividend payments larger by not patronizing the cash-back place.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
I admittedly haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but have skimmed through enough to get the jist.

As far as world trade goes, Christopher Columbus was looking for a trade route from Spain to the West Indies when he discovered America. World trade was a factor way back in 1492, continues to be a factor today, and will probably always be a factor. The price of cucumbers in Ethiopia will probably always have a cause and ripple effect all across the Globe.

That being said, I like to support local businesses wherever possible, within reason. When Peach and I were married in 1979, there was a viable grocery store in Merriman. We decided to buy all of our groceries in this little store to help keep it alive. It continued to stay in business for a few years, but with the declining local population, soon ceased to exist. Our efforts to keep it alive failed.

About the time our oldest boy was ready to start Kindergarten, we sold our south ranch and bought a ranch which adjoined my dad's ranch. Our kids attended the Cody-Kilgore school district, which had grade school in Kilgore and junior high/senior high in Cody. A grocery store was in Cody, and there had always been at least one grocery store in the town since the town had started back in 1885. Peach and I decided, once again, to buy all of our groceries at the Cody store to "keep it alive." It also failed. Now there is no grocery store closer than Valentine to the east, Gordon to the west, Martin to the north, or Hyannis to the south. Since it is 90 miles between Gordon and Valentine, and 85 miles between Martin and Hyannis, there is a lot of ranch country plumb devoid of grocery stores. I told Peach that we tried, but from now on she can buy her groceries wherever it is handiest. Shock, horror, this even includes of all places, Wal-mart, in either Chadron or Rapid City, if we happen to be in those towns.

Now Cody is in the process of getting a grant to possibly have a school-run local grocery store. I am all for it, even to the extent of pledging $500 to give to them for "start-up" costs, but I don't think we will even attempt to buy all of our groceries at this store. By the way, I hate grants, but won't get side-tracked by this subject.

Last summer, we needed a small car with better gas efficiency. We did end up buying a Ford Focus instead of a foreign car. Hope this helps in keeping USA car-manufacturing a viable entity. :roll:

I can buy green-treated white pine fence posts quite locally. I have to travel farther to buy creosote-treated yellow pine fence posts, which cost more money but last longer. Both kinds of posts are of American origin. This does become a dilema, but usually I elect to travel farther, pay more money, and get a higher-quality longer-lasting fence post.

My thoughts are to buy local if possible, but don't be afraid to give another town, another state, or another country business. It is what makes the world go around.
 

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