• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Two men

Brad S

Well-known member
The mess was a political scandal where Nixon abused his authority for political purposes or allowed those under him to abuse his authority and then he tried to cover it up instead of coming clean. I stayed in the Howard Johhnson's some years ago that was said to be where the FBI stayed when scoping out Watergate which was just across the street.


Much closer to Klinton, except Nixon's party said no, Klinton's party circled the wagons and brought on the constitutional crisis.

Nixon was exactly screwed by the Daily machine in Il in "60" but stood down for the good of the country, Gore lost every count but the good of the country be damned, he and his party wouldn't stand down in the face of honest defeat. Right there the leftist lieing scum began their assault to destabilize the Bush administration. the job Bush has accomplished is remarkable given circomstances.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Brad S said:
The mess was a political scandal where Nixon abused his authority for political purposes or allowed those under him to abuse his authority and then he tried to cover it up instead of coming clean. I stayed in the Howard Johhnson's some years ago that was said to be where the FBI stayed when scoping out Watergate which was just across the street.


Much closer to Klinton, except Nixon's party said no, Klinton's party circled the wagons and brought on the constitutional crisis.

Nixon was exactly screwed by the Daily machine in Il in "60" but stood down for the good of the country, Gore lost every count but the good of the country be damned, he and his party wouldn't stand down in the face of honest defeat. Right there the leftist lieing scum began their assault to destabilize the Bush administration. the job Bush has accomplished is remarkable given circomstances.

If that is what you want to beleive, Brad.

It seems you are one of those that is either a republican or democrat and the abuses of either don't matter if it is your guy doing the abusing.

I hold both to a higher standard, Brad. I wish you did too.
 

passin thru

Well-known member
If that is what you want to beleive, Brad.

It seems you are one of those that is either a republican or democrat and the abuses of either don't matter if it is your guy doing the abusing.

I hold both to a higher standard, Brad. I wish you did too.

It's too bad that you ignore the truth. Sprry you choose to believe only what you choose to. Yes I do expect a higher standard from both. I don't get into the game of which is worse.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
passin thru said:
If that is what you want to beleive, Brad.

It seems you are one of those that is either a republican or democrat and the abuses of either don't matter if it is your guy doing the abusing.

I hold both to a higher standard, Brad. I wish you did too.

It's too bad that you ignore the truth. Sprry you choose to believe only what you choose to. Yes I do expect a higher standard from both. I don't get into the game of which is worse.

passin, that is why I like to stick to the issues. Republican isn't synonamous with rightousness and neither is democrat. We have had a run of bad luck here lately and I just because one was bad doesn't mean the other was good. I happen to believe in the old republican party and what it stood for. From what I have seen with this one, it aint much better than the last dem. that held the office as he is self serving. I hope he changes. I haven't seen those signs yet.

To start with, I would like to see some real changes in the USDA because of the OIG report on documented fraud at the Grain Inspection Packers and Stockyards Administration. The report was very concerning and seems to be covered up by this administration. The lady who was running it left office when it came out and the administration hasn't held to account. Neither have the oversight committees who are supposed to oversee this agency. Meantime the frauds continue, are not corrected, and the packers are getting away with abuses to producers.

You might not know a lot about this subject but it has been discussed on the bull session.

Read the OIG report on GIPSA before you comment on it. You only need to read a little to tell the regulatory agency over the packers is a joke. I am sure they are trying to hide it though.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
I am proud of my Senator Dole for telling Nixon to resign for the good of the country. I am ashamed of my comgressman Glickman for not telling Klinton to do the same.

What do you do to "hold both to a higher standard?" Should I insist Senator Dole sucker punch Nixon?

I do think Nixon standing down after the voter fraud committed by the Daily machine was a mistake. I think the DOJ should still be all over the Daily machine.
 

passin thru

Well-known member
passin, that is why I like to stick to the issues. Republican isn't synonamous with rightousness and neither is democrat. We have had a run of bad luck here lately and I just because one was bad doesn't mean the other was good. I happen to believe in the old republican party and what it stood for. From what I have seen with this one, it aint much better than the last dem. that held the office as he is self serving. I hope he changes. I haven't seen those signs yet.

To start with, I would like to see some real changes in the USDA because of the OIG report on documented fraud at the Grain Inspection Packers and Stockyards Administration. The report was very concerning and seems to be covered up by this administration. The lady who was running it left office when it came out and the administration hasn't held to account. Neither have the oversight committees who are supposed to oversee this agency. Meantime the frauds continue, are not corrected, and the packers are getting away with abuses to producers.

You might not know a lot about this subject but it has been discussed on the bull session.

Read the OIG report on GIPSA before you comment on it. You only need to read a little to tell the regulatory agency over the packers is a joke. I am sure they are trying to hide it though.

Talking about changing issues.............you just did a bang up job. Second time I tried debating you and you did it both times. Oh and I do know quite a bit about YOUR subject..............the problem is we weren't on that subject. Debates can not happen when someone wants to change the subject....................sorry
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
Brad S,


The Daley Machine is under investigatioin right now... So is the Illinois governor (Who is also basically a product of Chicago machine politics).. The wagons are circling and it looks more and more like Richie Jr. is as dirty as his daddy was but it won't matter. Every day more and more dirty laundry is being aired, From hired truck to the latest patronage jobs to the minoirty contracts going to old, white male buddies/political contributors to Daley. They are working their way up the ladder after him. He will get indicted by Fitzgerald but if the trial is after the next election it won't matter. Heck, he could be on trial, run and win. The beauty if the Chicago one party system..

The Governor won't fair so well. Here is a situation where a Dem came into replace a Republican Gov that was dirtier than all get out and if anything has made the situation worse. Illinois politics are not good and most of it has to do with the Windy city area. Too many folks full of hot air llive and work in that area.


Don't forget that in 1960 it wasn't just Chicago/Illinois that was fishy... So was Texas, you know, the VP's home state that year. Of course Chicago does have the old saying of vote early, vote often so folks were just following tradition.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
passin thru said:
passin, that is why I like to stick to the issues. Republican isn't synonamous with rightousness and neither is democrat. We have had a run of bad luck here lately and I just because one was bad doesn't mean the other was good. I happen to believe in the old republican party and what it stood for. From what I have seen with this one, it aint much better than the last dem. that held the office as he is self serving. I hope he changes. I haven't seen those signs yet.

To start with, I would like to see some real changes in the USDA because of the OIG report on documented fraud at the Grain Inspection Packers and Stockyards Administration. The report was very concerning and seems to be covered up by this administration. The lady who was running it left office when it came out and the administration hasn't held to account. Neither have the oversight committees who are supposed to oversee this agency. Meantime the frauds continue, are not corrected, and the packers are getting away with abuses to producers.

You might not know a lot about this subject but it has been discussed on the bull session.

Read the OIG report on GIPSA before you comment on it. You only need to read a little to tell the regulatory agency over the packers is a joke. I am sure they are trying to hide it though.

Talking about changing issues.............you just did a bang up job. Second time I tried debating you and you did it both times. Oh and I do know quite a bit about YOUR subject..............the problem is we weren't on that subject. Debates can not happen when someone wants to change the subject....................sorry

Passin, Nixon did himself in. It lead to a democrat in the whitehouse. I believe that Ronald Reagan fixed a lot of Carter's messes although it probably came at the cost of arms for hostages.

I don't want to argue on how good a Pres. Carter was because I didn't vote for him or support him. It is someone else's arguement, not mine.

You must first find someone to disagree with you for the most part in order to have the kind of debate you want to engage in.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Brad S said:
I am proud of my Senator Dole for telling Nixon to resign for the good of the country. I am ashamed of my comgressman Glickman for not telling Klinton to do the same.

What do you do to "hold both to a higher standard?" Should I insist Senator Dole sucker punch Nixon?

I do think Nixon standing down after the voter fraud committed by the Daily machine was a mistake. I think the DOJ should still be all over the Daily machine.

Those are probably some things I could agree with, Brad.

No, I don't think any president needs to be "sucker punched". Congress must act like it is its own branch of government, though, and not a branch of the executive branch.
 

passin thru

Well-known member
You must be mistaken
Passin, Nixon did himself in. It lead to a democrat in the whitehouse. I believe that Ronald Reagan fixed a lot of Carter's messes although it probably came at the cost of arms for hostages.

I don't want to argue on how good a Pres. Carter was because I didn't vote for him or support him. It is someone else's arguement, not mine.

You must first find someone to disagree with you for the most part in order to have the kind of debate you want to engage in.

I never said anything different about Nixon doing himself in.......as for him leaving, good ridance.
Like I said, seems no one can name anything Carter did to straighten up the Nixon mess. Seems you think I am a Carter supporter..........I have no clue how you got to that conclusion.
That is what I wondered how you were wanting to engage in a disagreement...............it even seemed as you were changed the subject to come to a disagreement............sorry I do not change the subject. That is for another day and time...........and post.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
passin thru said:
You must be mistaken
Passin, Nixon did himself in. It lead to a democrat in the whitehouse. I believe that Ronald Reagan fixed a lot of Carter's messes although it probably came at the cost of arms for hostages.

I don't want to argue on how good a Pres. Carter was because I didn't vote for him or support him. It is someone else's arguement, not mine.

You must first find someone to disagree with you for the most part in order to have the kind of debate you want to engage in.

I never said anything different about Nixon doing himself in.......as for him leaving, good ridance.
Like I said, seems no one can name anything Carter did to straighten up the Nixon mess. Seems you think I am a Carter supporter..........I have no clue how you got to that conclusion.
That is what I wondered how you were wanting to engage in a disagreement...............it even seemed as you were changed the subject to come to a disagreement............sorry I do not change the subject. That is for another day and time...........and post.

No, I thought you thought I was a Pres. Carter supporter.

You can like a man for some attributes and not like him for others.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Lets see Johnson handed Nixon Nam......Nixon went to China.....

Nixon is noted for his diplomatic accomplishments in foreign policy, especially Détente with the Soviet Union and China, and ending the Vietnam War.

Relations between the Western and Eastern power blocs changed dramatically in the early 70s. In 1960, the People's Republic of China ended the alliance with its biggest ally, the Soviet Union, in the Sino-Soviet Split. As tensions between the two communist nations reached its peak in 1969 and 1970, Nixon decided to use their conflict to shift the balance of power towards the West in the Cold War. In what later would be known as the "China Card", Nixon deliberately improved relations with China in order to gain a strategic advantage over the Soviet Union, but giving Moscow a chance to improve relations so as not to be squeezed by a US-China detente

Nixon then turned to topic of nuclear peace. Fearing the possibility of a Sino-American alliance, the Soviet Union yielded to American pressure for détente. The first Strategic Arms Limitation Talks were finally concluded in May 1972 with the SALT I treaty. To win American friendship both China and the Soviet Union cut back on their support for North Vietnam.

Nixon is the only American to have been elected twice to the Vice Presidency and twice to the Presidency, and is given credit for redefining the office of Vice President, making it for the first time a high visibility platform and base for a presidential candidacy.

Nixon approved the development of the Space Shuttle program, a decision that profoundly influenced U.S. efforts to explore and develop space for several decades thereafter.

# Establishment of the Environmental Protection Agency.
# Establishment of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
# Establishment of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation.
# Establishment of the Drug Enforcement Administration.
# Establishment of the Supplemental Security Income program.
# Establishment of the Office of Minority Business Enterprise
# Post Office Department abolished as a cabinet department and reorganized as a government owned corporation, the U.S Postal Service.
# SALT I, or Strategic Arms Limitation Talks, led to the signing of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
# Space Shuttle program started.
# Endorsed an enlightened self-determination policy for Native Americans

There are presidents who could be considered both failures and great, Nixon's career was frequently dogged the public perception of it, not based on his foreign policy and domestic policy successes but stand in dramatic contradiction to the noted failure of Watergate.

so it is easy to say he passed on a mess.....when ignoreing all he did and focusing on one part of his long carreer in politics.....when in fact he did more for this country then carter ever could......
 

Steve

Well-known member
but lets look at carter.....

Gave away the Panama canal to a drug lord dictatorship.....

The Iranian hostage crisis was seen by critics as a devastating blow to national prestige; Carter struggled for 444 days to release the hostages.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan marked the end of détente,

was unable to reduce soaring interest rates and inflation rates,,The economy suffered double-digit inflation, coupled with very high interest rates, oil shortages, high unemployment, and slow economic growth. Nothing Carter did seemed to help,

or to lower unemployment

The inflation caused interest rates to rise to unprecedented levels (above 12% per year).

The prime rate hit 21.5 in December 1980, highest in history


the gas crises.....

Carter asked for the resignations of all of his Cabinet officers,...

The rapid change in rates led to disintermediation of bank deposits, which began the Savings and Loan crisis.

Carter signed legislation increasin the Social Security costs through a staggered increase in the payroll tax

He also prohibited Americans from participating in the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow,

reinstated registration for the draft for young male.

Carter started a $40 billion covert program of training Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.which led to the rise of Islamic theocracy in the region, and also created much of the current problems with Islamic fundamentalism...

On August 5, 1980, the Saudi rulers welcomed Saddam Hussein to Riyadh for his first state visit to Saudi Arabia, the first for any Iraqi president. Saudi Prince Fahd claimed that President Carter, apparently hoping to strengthen the U.S. hand in the Middle East and desperate to pressure Iran over the stalled hostage talks, gave clearance to Saddam's invasion of Iran. On September 22, 1980, Saddam Hussein invaded Iran and began a bloody trench war that lasted almost a decade and killed one million people.

n 1994, Carter went to North Korea at the behest of President Clinton.
and gace them "two light water reactors" ,..it soon became apparent that despite their promises to Carter, North Korea had no intention of stopping its nuclear weapons program. In 2005, North Korea announced that it had nuclear weapons.

but who could forget his further distruction on the home front.....


Carter terminated the Russian Wheat Deal, embargo marked the beginning of hardship for American farmers

Created the ""Misery Index"" and most of the Major problem issues of today....

so who cleaned up his mess?
 

Steve

Well-known member
the Carter administration had begun to provide non-lethal covert assistance to the Afghan and Arab rebels, also known as the mujahideen. U.S. assistance was not able to prevent the Soviet invasion six months later.

intervention six months before the invasion, why to provoke the Soviets?

On July 3, 1979, Mr. Carter signed a directive authorizing secret aid to Islamic opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan. The turmoil that followed prompted the Soviet government to send its army across the border. The American people have been led to believe that the U.S. government got involved in Afghanistan only after the Soviet Union invaded that country. That is not true. Mr. Carter’s directive came five months before the Soviet invasion. What’s more, it was intended to provoke it.

but why worry about a few Some stirred-up Moslems

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Zbigniew_Brzezinski
 

Latest posts

Top