• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Two problems, SH

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Your quote, SH, "Yes, the consumers that buy hormone free beef do so because they believe it's safer than regular beef. The science says it's not safer so there is no reason for USDA to take action against hormone free beef. It's not LESS SAFE than regular beef."

Two problems here;
1) Unless tested beef is less safe than untested, there would be no need to block it following your logic. You're defending a double standard.

2) You said, "Blatant fraud when consumers believe "BSE TESTED" means "BSE FREE". " Why isn't hormone free beef blatant fraud when consumers think "hormone free" is safer as well? You're defending another double standard.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska,

If we are going to continue this discussion on this particular topic, we are going to stick to one thread, THIS ONE.

Now that I have told you what you wanted to hear, before this goes any further, you are going to answer a question for me.

When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?



If you want to continue this discussion, we are going to level the playing field. You answer that question honestly, AS I DID YOURS, then we will continue. If not, you can pack sand!


~SH~
 

Mike

Well-known member
When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?


I would personally expect "BSE Tested" beef to be tested with a reasonable amount of due diligence.

There are many tests in use today, E-Coli, Salmonella, Listeria, etc.

Do we expect our beef to be "Free" of those diseases? Yes we do.

But we are having recalls all the time because they are not. :???:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "I admit they were going to use whatever test the Japanese wanted them to. The Japanese were the ones writing the check. Thats how things work in a true free market society. Too bad we didn't have one."

To be addressed after you answer my question.


~SH~
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Why did you come and go Sandcheska?

You want to hold me to a standard that you are unwilling to live by yourself. You hounded me and hounded me to answer your stupid question thinking it would cinch your "PERCEIVED" double standard.

I finally gave you the answer you were looking for and now you dodge my question. See what a pathetic @#%@!^* you are?


Sandcheska: "Just why in the world do people buy hormone free?"

SH (in response): "Yes, the consumers that buy hormone free beef do so because they believe it's safer than regular beef. The science says it's not safer so there is no reason for USDA to take action against hormone free beef. It's not LESS SAFE than regular beef.

There is no fraud because nobody is saying that "hormone free" is safer than regular beef.

In contrast, "BSE TESTED" beef implies "BSE FREE". Why can't you be honest about that??? Why can't you be honest about the fact that consumers wouldn't buy bse tested beef if they didn't think it was bse free.

You want me to be totally honest with you but you can't do the same.

I don't have a problem with consumers buying bse tested beef IF THERE IS A GUARANTEE THAT THE BEEF IS BSE FREE.

Fielding admitted "BSE TESTED DOES NOT MEAN BSE FREE" therefore there is no reason to support Creekstone's BSE testing.

The two are not comparable based on a "PERCEPTION OF SAFETY".

Ignorance about growth hormones hardly justifies consumer fraud regarding bse testing cattle under 24 months of age with a test that will not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months."


ANSWER MY QUESTION SANDCHESKA!


When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?



~SH~
 

Mike

Well-known member
EU Bans US Beef w/Hormones
Reasons for the ban...

The main reason for the EU ban is a fear that the hormones are dangerous and may cause health problems to those who ingest them. The ban has, however, proved controversial because of differing opinions on whether the forbidden products are safe for human consumption and also the allowance by the EU of the hormones into other parts of the food chain. Also, a second reason for the ban, according to EU officials, is that consumers in the EU have expressed a strong preference to eat hormone free meat regardless of its safety. Finally, there is an argument for a ban on animal health/husbandry grounds (i.e. pushing animals to grow faster than they would naturally).



The arguments...

There are three central arguments in this case: 1) The uncertainty or certainty surrounding the science; 2) The legitimacy of EU public demand; 3) Whether the EU ban is discriminatory - i.e. merely an attempt to protect its own farming industry.

In the United States, the FDA has approved the use of most hormones for controlled use. According to the USA, the EU has also conducted a comprehensive study which shows that there is no risk attached to hormone treated animals. There does, however, seem to be a certain amount of doubt concerning both the effects on cattle of the hormones and the possible link to human breast and colon cancer. The EU has therefore been arguing that it should be allowed to invoke the Precautionary Principle in this case, meaning it could take action in the face of scientific uncertainty. The USA has been arguing that no such scientific uncertainty exists so the EU ban is illegal.

Also important is whether, regardless of the science, the EU should be allowed to implement a ban based on the will of its people. As one author puts it,

“...surely, if European consumers and governments are opposed to hormone-treated food and want to promote more organic methods of raising cattle, they should have the absolute right to do so”.1

However, in terms of the WTA, this is the most cut and dried issue as banning a product purely on the basis of public demand is prohibited no matter how strong the public opinion.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Mike said:
When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?


I would personally expect "BSE Tested" beef to be tested with a reasonable amount of due diligence.

There are many tests in use today, E-Coli, Salmonella, Listeria, etc.

Do we expect our beef to be "Free" of those diseases? Yes we do.

But we are having recalls all the time because they are not. :???:

Mike, the way the FSIS inspector explained testing to me is that only the sample that is tested can be claimed 'free'...but that sample never enters the food chain. Testing is to monitor and hopefully prevent problems from getting to the consumer. And, probably most importantly, it gives the consumer confidence that the industry is at least trying to do something to protect them. When consumers see the industry failing to address their concerns, they buy something else.
 

Mike

Well-known member
RobertMac said:
Mike said:
When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?


I would personally expect "BSE Tested" beef to be tested with a reasonable amount of due diligence.

There are many tests in use today, E-Coli, Salmonella, Listeria, etc.

Do we expect our beef to be "Free" of those diseases? Yes we do.

But we are having recalls all the time because they are not. :???:

Mike, the way the FSIS inspector explained testing to me is that only the sample that is tested can be claimed 'free'...but that sample never enters the food chain. Testing is to monitor and hopefully prevent problems from getting to the consumer. And, probably most importantly, it gives the consumer confidence that the industry is at least trying to do something to protect them. When consumers see the industry failing to address their concerns, they buy something else.

Thanks Robertmac. I understand tests are used for "surveillance" purposes, but we still reasonably "Expect" our food to be "Free" of all contamination.

Just using Scott's word "Expect" and what our "Expectations" are.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mike said:
When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?


I would personally expect "BSE Tested" beef to be tested with a reasonable amount of due diligence.

There are many tests in use today, E-Coli, Salmonella, Listeria, etc.

Do we expect our beef to be "Free" of those diseases? Yes we do.

But we are having recalls all the time because they are not. :???:

I think that puts it very well, Mike. Our friend seems to want to consider a consumer's expectations on one product, but he won't apply the same to the other. I know I'll never get him to admit to it, but I do enjoy watching him dance around that like a circus poodle!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska,

When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?



~SH~
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska,

Are you going to pretend that you don't know why customers buy bse tested beef? Do you realize that it costs more than regular? Do you really think you're enhancing your credibilty by playing stupid? Take a guess, Sandcheska, why do people buy bse tested beef?

Why not take a shot at the question, Sandcheska. Just why in the world do people buy bse tested beef? Why do they even pay a premium for it? Haven't you told us the price is the driving factor in purchases? If so, why are they going counter to that? Why, Sandcheska?

Now that you've had a good night's sleep, do you think you can answer why people buy bse tested beef?

Even though Sandcheska claims to embrace lies and deception, he dodges it by somehow not understanding why consumers buy bse tested beef. He plays dumb. Well, maybe if he truly has no idea why somebody would buy bse tested beef, he might actually be as stupid as he lets on. He won't admit the obvious because that would put him in USDA's camp opposite R-CULT, and he would rather be boiled in oil than the do that, no matter how truthful it may be.

Why do they want bse tested beef, Fred Astaire? What a flippin idiot! You're so far up a tree it's rediculous. Talk about dodging a simple question!

We both know that if you answered honestly, your position goes "poof". The question now is why do you hold the same opinion when you know the facts don't support it? What kind of idiot chooses to be wrong?

Do you think they are buying it because they think it is safer?

You just can't admit the obvious, can you?

And you accuse others of dancing?

Why do you choose to be so think-head and unyeilding even in the face of the truth? You can't figure out that you're outing yourself? You simply will not admit that people buy bse tested beef because they think it is safer, can you? This could go on for months and you won't do it? Doesn't that tell you something about your position?

You are a fool. And you're a fool by choice which makes you a mega-fool!


WHY DO PEOPLE BUY BSE TESTED BEEF SANDCHESKA?????


In your face you weasel!

If this thread accomplished anything, it revealed how you hold others to a higher standard than yourself. I intentionally danced around your question to introduce you to yourself. I had every intention of answering it but I knew you wouldn't do the same with my question because that's the double standard hypocritical world you R-CULTers live in.


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
ocm said:
~SH~ said:
Sandcheska,

When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?



~SH~

Have you gone into mindreading now?

He must be able to read everybody else's mind except his! He has a hard time remembering his own statement. How many times has he claimed that the cost of testing will be passed to the producer? How many times has he claimed the Japanese would not pay for it? Then he makes the comment, "Are you going to pretend that you don't know why customers buy bse tested beef? Do you realize that it costs more than regular?

Maybe he can explain why it would cost more than regular when producers were paying for it?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "He must be able to read everybody else's mind except his!"

Listen to the damn hypocrite, YOU WHO CLAIMS TO KNOW WHY CONSUMERS BUY, AS YOU CALL IT (Robert Mac disclaimer), "HORMONE FREE" BEEF?

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds does it?


Sandcheska: "He has a hard time remembering his own statement. How many times has he claimed that the cost of testing will be passed to the producer? How many times has he claimed the Japanese would not pay for it? Then he makes the comment, "Are you going to pretend that you don't know why customers buy bse tested beef? Do you realize that it costs more than regular?"

That was your statement back at you you idiot!

The costs of bse testing, ACCORDING TO CREEKSTONE, would be absorbed by the Japanese consumer. AGAIN, THAT IS ACCORDING TO CREEKSTONE! You claimed that the Japanese government was willing to pay for the costs of testing. Why don't you take your argument up with Creekstone themselves you hypocrite?


Sandcheska,

When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?


Why do you hypocritically demand an answer to your question but dance around mine? Never mind, I'll tell you why. Because you are a weasel that holds others to a standard you cannot live by yourself.


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Act like a man, you'll get treated like one. You're either addressing a Slavic individual or your homosexual lover. I'm neither one so I don't feel inclined to answer.

SH, "The costs of bse testing, ACCORDING TO CREEKSTONE, would be absorbed by the Japanese consumer. AGAIN, THAT IS ACCORDING TO CREEKSTONE"

That makes sense. Why did you say the costs would fall to the producers? Do you remember making this statement; ""To pay the costs of testing, they would only lower the prices paid for cattle" You've either got a poor memory or you're flip flopping.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandcheska: "Act like a man, you'll get treated like one."

What the hell would you know about acting like a man???

You demand answers to questions and dance aroud questions you don't want to answer like a circus chicken. True to your hypocritical ways.


When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?


Dance, dance, dance!


Sandcheska: "Why did you say the costs would fall to the producers? Do you remember making this statement; ""To pay the costs of testing, they would only lower the prices paid for cattle" You've either got a poor memory or you're flip flopping."


You were the one who said the Japanese government agreed to pay for the costs of testing. Creekstone said consumers would pay for it.

You were wrong again, AS ALWAYS!


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, "You were the one who said the Japanese government agreed to pay for the costs of testing."

If I was an out of control fool like you, I would call you a liar. Instead, I'll show a bit of class and just tell you that you're mistaken.

So which way is it? Who pays for the testing? I guess it depends on what arguement you're trying to make?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
When a consumer buys "BSE TESTED" beef, do they expect that beef to be "BSE FREE"?

Yes or no?



~SH~
 
Top