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Two questions, Randy and Rod.

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Rod, How do you know WSGA supports BIG C?

I didn't say that. I said the WSGA supports at least some of BIG-C's platform. To clarify: I don't know if the WSGA supports BIG-C or not, but they espouse some of the same ideas.

WSGA's website is horrible, so when things settle down around here, I'll be calling to get a first hand account of their platform.

Rod
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Rod, How do you know WSGA supports BIG C?

I didn't say that. I said the WSGA supports at least some of BIG-C's platform. To clarify: I don't know if the WSGA supports BIG-C or not, but they espouse some of the same ideas.

WSGA's website is horrible, so when things settle down around here, I'll be calling to get a first hand account of their platform.

Rod



I see. Rod with what the web site shows they are doing many of the same things as the SSGA but the one difference is we are representing Saskatchewan producers. I bet they don't have a local chapter in Nipawan.



Randy My question would be better worded if I asked when is BIG C's AGM?
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
I see. Rod with what the web site shows they are doing many of the same things as the SSGA but the one difference is we are representing Saskatchewan producers. I bet they don't have a local chapter in Nipawan.

Certainly they are doing some of the same things as the SSGA. I never said the SSGA was all bad, nor all their decisions in error. However it is my understanding that the WSGA supports allowing BSE testing and are against further packer concentration within Canada. I know the SSGA is against BSE testing, and I haven't gotten an answer about fighting further packing plant consolidations.

Rod
 

Tam

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I see. Rod with what the web site shows they are doing many of the same things as the SSGA but the one difference is we are representing Saskatchewan producers. I bet they don't have a local chapter in Nipawan.

Certainly they are doing some of the same things as the SSGA. I never said the SSGA was all bad, nor all their decisions in error. However it is my understanding that the WSGA supports allowing BSE testing and are against further packer concentration within Canada. I know the SSGA is against BSE testing, and I haven't gotten an answer about fighting further packing plant consolidations.

Rod

Just what do you mean by the SSGA is against BSE testing?

A resolution passed on May 31 2005. By the SSGA

Be it resolved that SSGA ask CBEF to trial test export markets with OTM BSE tested products and the be done as soon as possible and that SSGA, CBEF and CCA expedite this market trial.

Looks to me as if the SSGA is open to testing OTM for market access ROD. This resolution was passed at the same meeting that they passed the resolution about importation of own used generic drugs, pesticides and herdicidies. You know Rod IVOMEC that you also said they had not take a favorable stance on.

And as far as fighting packer concentration just how do you think the SSGA should do that Rod? From what I see they are giving the producers the information needed to decide for themselves if they want to invest their money in a plant on the viability of the plants proposed BUSINESS PLAN and are lobbying the government to provide tax breaks for those that do decide to invest. If that is doing nothing then WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THAT IS ANY BETTER?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tam said:
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
I see. Rod with what the web site shows they are doing many of the same things as the SSGA but the one difference is we are representing Saskatchewan producers. I bet they don't have a local chapter in Nipawan.

Certainly they are doing some of the same things as the SSGA. I never said the SSGA was all bad, nor all their decisions in error. However it is my understanding that the WSGA supports allowing BSE testing and are against further packer concentration within Canada. I know the SSGA is against BSE testing, and I haven't gotten an answer about fighting further packing plant consolidations.

Rod

Just what do you mean by the SSGA is against BSE testing?

A resolution passed on May 31 2005. By the SSGA

Be it resolved that SSGA ask CBEF to trial test export markets with OTM BSE tested products and the be done as soon as possible and that SSGA, CBEF and CCA expedite this market trial.

Looks to me as if the SSGA is open to testing OTM for market access ROD. This resolution was passed at the same meeting that they passed the resolution about importation of own used generic drugs, pesticides and herdicidies. You know Rod IVOMEC that you also said they had not take a favorable stance on.

And as far as fighting packer concentration just how do you think the SSGA should do that Rod? From what I see they are giving the producers the information needed to decide for themselves if they want to invest their money in a plant on the viability of the plants proposed BUSINESS PLAN and are lobbying the government to provide tax breaks for those that do decide to invest. If that is doing nothing then WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THAT IS ANY BETTER?

Well Tam-- As a self acclaimed industry leader your comments on here could easily have led Rod to believe that you and your group (SSGA) are anti-everything and anything.....

That is definitely the impression you have left with me about the SSGA...
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Tam said:
A resolution passed on May 31 2005. By the SSGA

Be it resolved that SSGA ask CBEF to trial test export markets with OTM BSE tested products and the be done as soon as possible and that SSGA, CBEF and CCA expedite this market trial.

Looks to me as if the SSGA is open to testing OTM for market access ROD.

My apologies to the SSGA. It appears as though the CCA rep I spoke to this spring misspoke when he said that the ABP and the SSGA were against BSE testing. Were there any further resolutions passed against BSE testing after the one you quoted to me?

Again though, it would certainly be nice to have better organization to the SSGA's website so this kind of thing wouldn't force me through line after line of resolutions. I'm not the least bit interested in stewardship stuff.

So tell me, has the SSGA contacted anyone in government, or sought an audience with government to let their views known? Or did it only make it to the resolution phase?

Tam said:
And as far as fighting packer concentration just how do you think the SSGA should do that Rod?

To be blunt, I want to see the SSGA put pressure on government to PREVENT further consolidations. Supporting producer owned packing plants is a great idea of course, but I want to see an organization rabidly pursuing government to prevent the destruction of an industry.

Just out of curiosity, after the resolutions are passed, how are they acted on?

Rod
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Certainly they are doing some of the same things as the SSGA. I never said the SSGA was all bad, nor all their decisions in error. However it is my understanding that the WSGA supports allowing BSE testing and are against further packer concentration within Canada. I know the SSGA is against BSE testing, and I haven't gotten an answer about fighting further packing plant consolidations.

Rod

Just what do you mean by the SSGA is against BSE testing?

A resolution passed on May 31 2005. By the SSGA

Be it resolved that SSGA ask CBEF to trial test export markets with OTM BSE tested products and the be done as soon as possible and that SSGA, CBEF and CCA expedite this market trial.

Looks to me as if the SSGA is open to testing OTM for market access ROD. This resolution was passed at the same meeting that they passed the resolution about importation of own used generic drugs, pesticides and herdicidies. You know Rod IVOMEC that you also said they had not take a favorable stance on.

And as far as fighting packer concentration just how do you think the SSGA should do that Rod? From what I see they are giving the producers the information needed to decide for themselves if they want to invest their money in a plant on the viability of the plants proposed BUSINESS PLAN and are lobbying the government to provide tax breaks for those that do decide to invest. If that is doing nothing then WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THAT IS ANY BETTER?

Well Tam-- As a self acclaimed industry leader your comments on here could easily have led Rod to believe that you and your group (SSGA) are anti-everything and anything.....

That is definitely the impression you have left with me about the SSGA...
I have never proclaimed I was anything but a member just like anyone else that pays a membership OLDTIMER. Just because I happen to go to meetings and VOTE doesn't give me anymore say than Rod would have IF he paid for a membership and came to meeting, got informed and voted.

SAY Oldtimer do R-CALF's individual members have a right to have an opinion or once you pay your membership do you lose your ability to have an individual thought. :wink: By the way I voted for the resolution as at the time R-CALF was theatening us with closing our export market to the US so if it had taken testing to get our beef moving to other countries then so be it. I still think if we were to do it we could be putting ourselves at risk of any country that wants to demand something unjust would expect us to do as they ask. When would the demands stop and what could those demand cost an industry that is struggleing to stay competitive???? :shock:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Tam, "I still think if we were to do it we could be putting ourselves at risk of any country that wants to demand something unjust would expect us to do as they ask. When would the demands stop and what could those demand cost an industry that is struggleing to stay competitive???? "

No business can operate being afraid of what the customer might ask. You've got to realize the customer is always going to want something. Only a fool would say "no" if they can meet the request. In the case of BSE tested beef, the answer is "Sure we can take care of you. You realize we're trying to run as lean as we can and testing will cost us, so we'll need XX extra for the tested product. How much do you want and when do you want it?" Now what is the problem there?

Compare that to, "No, we're not going to do that. If we do, Lord only knows what you'll ask for next".
 

rkaiser

Well-known member
Big Muddy asks -
Randy when does the membership of BIG C vote for their officers?

BIG C is not a structured organization. It is simply a group of ranchers who were not sucked in to the BSEconomics of BSE. There has never been a vote for anything but direction - just like the votes that we took when we took our show on the road in front of close to 8000 other discontented ranchers. These folks gave us direction Big Muddy.

Don't worry BMR, BIG C never intended to become anything more than a reminder to those who think they are the voice of the rancher, that they actually are not. We asked for the 100 bucks from supporters so that we could carry their message to government and so called industry leadership and we did, and continue to do that. We also told these folks that if we ever threw in the towel we would donate the left over cash to 4H. Not much cash left now BMR, and we don't plan to ask for any more. We are looking for a home and the Western Stock Growers seem to be the place for us to go. They were vocal and visible at meetings we also attended, and do support BSE testing with more then a resolution. You and Tam will likely throw some more dough questions my way to try to discredit BIG C.

I'd like to ask one before you get started. Did the SSGA take a plane ride (with Tam taggin along behind on her broom) to the office of the federal ag minister to follow up on their resolution calling for BSE testing? That's what we told those that donated we would do and we did it. It cost them their money but we opened that door, and continue to open doors with only our own money and time.

Unfortunately - our commucapitalist government is only as truly democratic as your own personal perception - just as you feel BIG C is illegitimate because we did not vote for Cam as the president.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well Tam -- You have led me to believe that Big Muddy was the Grand Poobah of SSGA and you were the affiliate advisor to the Grand Poobah :wink: -- And your negativity toward everything possibly gave be a false impression to what they actually believe in and are doing....

I know that position on testing is much more in line with the Saskatchewan ranchers I have talked with- much more than the one you professed on this website.....Altho those ranchers also echoed the fact that they think not enough is being done.....
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Ok Tam, I'm lost. I hunted the SSGA's website looking for that resolution you quoted, as well as what action was taken, and can't find a thing on it. My wife does accuse me of being blind like bat though, so can you post the link to the resolution and the action that was taken?

And can you explain this one to me, please?

"Whereas; the Canadian beef cattle industry is highly dependant upon export sales; Be it resolved, that SSGA lobby both the provincial and federal governments to empower Canada’s WTO negotiators with a mandate to achieve substantial improvements in global market access for Canadian beef exports."

I thought our WTO negotiators were already empowered to seek improvements in market access for all Canadian industry? Indeed, I thought that was their job, or at least a substantial portion of their job?

Rod
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
rkaiser said:
Big Muddy asks -
Randy when does the membership of BIG C vote for their officers?

BIG C is not a structured organization. It is simply a group of ranchers who were not sucked in to the BSEconomics of BSE. There has never been a vote for anything but direction - just like the votes that we took when we took our show on the road in front of close to 8000 other discontented ranchers. These folks gave us direction Big Muddy.

Don't worry BMR, BIG C never intended to become anything more than a reminder to those who think they are the voice of the rancher, that they actually are not. We asked for the 100 bucks from supporters so that we could carry their message to government and so called industry leadership and we did, and continue to do that. We also told these folks that if we ever threw in the towel we would donate the left over cash to 4H. Not much cash left now BMR, and we don't plan to ask for any more. We are looking for a home and the Western Stock Growers seem to be the place for us to go. They were vocal and visible at meetings we also attended, and do support BSE testing with more then a resolution. You and Tam will likely throw some more dough questions my way to try to discredit BIG C.

I'd like to ask one before you get started. Did the SSGA take a plane ride (with Tam taggin along behind on her broom) to the office of the federal ag minister to follow up on their resolution calling for BSE testing? That's what we told those that donated we would do and we did it. It cost them their money but we opened that door, and continue to open doors with only our own money and time.

Unfortunately - our commucapitalist government is only as truly democratic as your own personal perception - just as you feel BIG C is illegitimate because we did not vote for Cam as the president.


Randy when I saw Cam sign his letter as president I thought you must have a AGM and elections. My Mistake.
The SSGA had two delegations in Ottawa this year. No I wasn't there and niether was Tam.We also meet with our Sask. Ag minister quite often on issuses concerning the Sask. industry.
As far a WSGA it's hard to tell what they feel about BSE by their web site, I don't think I even saw a mention of it. By the first statement it doesn't even look like they would support Mandatory Age Verification.
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Well Tam -- You have led me to believe that Big Muddy was the Grand Poobah of SSGA and you were the affiliate advisor to the Grand Poobah :wink: -- And your negativity toward everything possibly gave be a false impression to what they actually believe in and are doing....

I know that position on testing is much more in line with the Saskatchewan ranchers I have talked with- much more than the one you professed on this website.....Altho those ranchers also echoed the fact that they think not enough is being done.....


Oldtimer since you know my name and have acess to a computer and the SSGA web site you really failed to use the investigative skill you honed as a sheriff.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Well Tam -- You have led me to believe that Big Muddy was the Grand Poobah of SSGA and you were the affiliate advisor to the Grand Poobah :wink: -- And your negativity toward everything possibly gave be a false impression to what they actually believe in and are doing....

I know that position on testing is much more in line with the Saskatchewan ranchers I have talked with- much more than the one you professed on this website.....Altho those ranchers also echoed the fact that they think not enough is being done.....


Oldtimer since you know my name and have acess to a computer and the SSGA web site you really failed to use the investigative skill you honed as a sheriff.

I Didn't even know they had a website- I just thought Tam was their web spokesperson....... :wink: :lol:

Really didn't matter to me- but the Canucks on Agri-ville are sure burning at the stake the ABP/CCA and Canadian cattlemans organizations for lack of action in a current thread...It was stirred up enough I didn't even have to stir :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Well Tam -- You have led me to believe that Big Muddy was the Grand Poobah of SSGA and you were the affiliate advisor to the Grand Poobah :wink: -- And your negativity toward everything possibly gave be a false impression to what they actually believe in and are doing....

I know that position on testing is much more in line with the Saskatchewan ranchers I have talked with- much more than the one you professed on this website.....Altho those ranchers also echoed the fact that they think not enough is being done.....


Oldtimer since you know my name and have acess to a computer and the SSGA web site you really failed to use the investigative skill you honed as a sheriff.

I Didn't even know they had a website- I just thought Tam was their web spokesperson....... :wink: :lol:

Really didn't matter to me- but the Canucks on Agri-ville are sure burning at the stake the ABP/CCA and Canadian cattlemans organizations for lack of action in a current thread...It was stirred up enough I didn't even have to stir :wink: :lol: :lol:



You should have asked Haymaker. He knew they had a web site cause he sent a drunken E-MAIL to them .He made about as much sense as he usually does.
 

Tam

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Ok Tam, I'm lost. I hunted the SSGA's website looking for that resolution you quoted, as well as what action was taken, and can't find a thing on it. My wife does accuse me of being blind like bat though, so can you post the link to the resolution and the action that was taken?

And can you explain this one to me, please?

"Whereas; the Canadian beef cattle industry is highly dependant upon export sales; Be it resolved, that SSGA lobby both the provincial and federal governments to empower Canada’s WTO negotiators with a mandate to achieve substantial improvements in global market access for Canadian beef exports."

I thought our WTO negotiators were already empowered to seek improvements in market access for all Canadian industry? Indeed, I thought that was their job, or at least a substantial portion of their job?

Rod

Like I told you before if you had looked at past resolutions, those passed prior to 2006 , which were posted on the website but updated to the most recent resolution meaning, those passed in 2006 general meetings, you would have seen the resolutions. You seem to have found the new resolutions, so you should have the answer to you question about any resolution AGAINST testing. But if you missed it NO there has been no other resolutions against testing.

I will pass your concerns on to the office about the website. But in the mean time could I suggest something to you Rod. Since your information sources about what the SSGA does for producers has left you with egg on your face several times, maybe it is time to get a new information source :? I suggest the SSGA magazine. :wink: If you were a member you would get it as part of your membership but since you don't want the right to have a say in the policies of the SSGA with a voting membership. You can still keep yourself up on things by buying a subscription to the magazine for $23.32 for 6 issues. If that is to steep for you, I will remind you again all you have to do to recieve the Super Issue that goes out to any and all SASK producers in Sept. is call the SSGA office and ask to have your name and address put on the mailing list. As that is the only way the office can assure you will recieve your issue due to Canada's privacy act. In the Super Issue all resolutions that were passed in the previous year are printed for all producers members and non members to read. It also has information on what the different committees have been up to over the course of the year.
And about the resolution about the WTO negotiators, I believe it was the feelings of the SSGA membership that when the WTO negotiators were making deals with other countries either for exporting any Canadian products or access of their products to Canada that our government give them the mandate to use that opportunity to negotiate access for Canadian beef to those same markets.

Think about the Magazine :wink:
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Tam said:
But in the mean time could I suggest something to you Rod. Since your information sources about what the SSGA does for producers has left you with egg on your face several times, maybe it is time to get a new information source :?

Ummmm, twice is several times? But obviously the Saskatchewan CCA rep doesn't have it all on the ball. By the same token, if the SSGA's website held resolutions for more than 1 year, a person could verify things. When I was told about the SSGA's opposition to BSE testing, I did indeed look for verification on their website and found nothing.

So tell me, what steps were taken AFTER the resolution was passed? Were there any results? Who was spoke to and when? Does the SSGA intend to press the issue.

Tam said:
And about the resolution about the WTO negotiators, I believe it was the feelings of the SSGA membership that when the WTO negotiators were making deals with other countries either for exporting any Canadian products or access of their products to Canada that our government give them the mandate to use that opportunity to negotiate access for Canadian beef to those same markets.

I'm assuming this means that the SSGA and their membership felt our WTO negotiators were already not doing that?

Rod
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Tam said:
I still think if we were to do it we could be putting ourselves at risk of any country that wants to demand something unjust would expect us to do as they ask. When would the demands stop and what could those demand cost an industry that is struggleing to stay competitive????

Tell me how you force the consumer to buy your product?????
 

Tam

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Tam said:
But in the mean time could I suggest something to you Rod. Since your information sources about what the SSGA does for producers has left you with egg on your face several times, maybe it is time to get a new information source :?

Ummmm, twice is several times? But obviously the Saskatchewan CCA rep doesn't have it all on the ball. By the same token, if the SSGA's website held resolutions for more than 1 year, a person could verify things. When I was told about the SSGA's opposition to BSE testing, I did indeed look for verification on their website and found nothing.

So tell me, what steps were taken AFTER the resolution was passed? Were there any results? Who was spoke to and when? Does the SSGA intend to press the issue.

Tam said:
And about the resolution about the WTO negotiators, I believe it was the feelings of the SSGA membership that when the WTO negotiators were making deals with other countries either for exporting any Canadian products or access of their products to Canada that our government give them the mandate to use that opportunity to negotiate access for Canadian beef to those same markets.

I'm assuming this means that the SSGA and their membership felt our WTO negotiators were already not doing that?



Rod

Rod when a resolution is passed at SSGA meetings dealing with CBEF and CCA it would then be taken by our representatives to those meeting and voted on again by the representatives from other Associations that also have a vote in what CBEF and the CCA do. If enough other voter feel the same way as the SSGA does then the resolution will pass and be acted on if not it is defeated. Majority vote wins in most of Canada. Your statement made it sound as if the SSGA did nothing which is not true, we pass resolutions, how hard they are debated and what the opposition has against them I can only guess as I don't go to the CBEF and CCA meetings when those votes are taken. But I do know that the own use drug resolution caused hard feelings within the CCA as I was in a room when the topic was brought up and guys were standing face to face using tones that were upsetting to everyone there.


Rob do you believe that our government negotiators are using every opportunity possible to sell Canadian beef? When they are negotiating a deal with the US for our oil, power, and lumber do you think Beef is part of it? Do you think that when they negotiate cars and computers with Japan that beef is part of those deals? Do you think Beef is a part of any and all deals when negotiating with CHINA or the many other countries that have access to our markets? By questioning this resolution you must think that we sell Canadian beef to each and every country that want access to our markets and natural resources. If not then why shouldn't we ask our government to mandate that beef be a part of those negotiations. We need to gain access to other countries markets and by passing this resolution the SSGA members were asking OUR GOVERNMENT to mandate their negotiator to tie beef to some if not all of those deals.
 
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