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Tyson Brings Immigrants to Canada

Mike

Well-known member
Tyson looks abroad to fill Canada Vacancies

All Financial Times News Tyson Foods, the world's largest meat processor by sales, is recruiting workers from China and the Philippines in an effort to solve a labour shortage at its Canadian operation.

The US group is also targeting the Ukraine and El Salvador to fill gaps in its plants in the province of Alberta, where the boom in oil-sands exploration has driven economic growth to 6.6 per cent – twice the national average – and cut unemployment to 3.7 per cent.
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That's one way to get around paying average wages. :roll:

Good luck in Canada! If Tyson is successful, you'll be as crowded as Montreal! Don't think they won't be the only ones doing it. 8)
 

Jason

Well-known member
They aren't cutting wages to get new workers.

Wages in all sectors are climbing, fast food places in Lethbridge were offering $9 an hour, they are now offering $11 because $9 didn't get them anyone.

Tyson/Lakeside might be forced to raise wages as well, they do provide a good starting point for those who need work. They will carry workers for food and living accomodations until they get their paycheques. Rooms are like $10 a night and food $5 a meal. Not the ritz, but better than a cardboard box.

A friend of mine wanted to quit long haul trucking and I got him a job delivering fuel. He gets $19 an hour plus overtime. His first week he put in 52 hours in 6 days. He also gets fuel at cost plus 2 cents a litre.

Lots of jobs in Alberta. Some say we are 100,000 workers short.
 

TimH

Well-known member
My 17 year old just graduated in June. He is rough-necking on the oil rigs.
$23.50/hour to start plus $125.00/day living allowance.
Hmmmm....... if Tyson had to pay $20.00/hour for plant workers, would they raise the price of their beef or would they pay less for cattle???? If they raised beef prices would consumers pay it, or would they eat less beef and switch to chicken,pork or fish????
Hmmmmm????? :D
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
TimH said:
Hmmmm....... if Tyson had to pay $20.00/hour for plant workers, would they raise the price of their beef or would they pay less for cattle???? If they raised beef prices would consumers pay it, or would they eat less beef and switch to chicken,pork or fish????

If Tyson had to raise wages, that would also raise the cost of their pork and chicken. If they raised their wages above industry standard, eventually other companies would have to follow suit, and the prices of all proteins would rise. Importing cheap labor into Canada is a rediculous way to solve a labor shortage, when we have a large labor force currently collecting welfare. I'm not sure if anyone in Canada realizes this or not, but when unemployment figures are released, they don't include welfare recipients.

Rod
 

Mike

Well-known member
Guys, guys, guys. :???: In any local "Boomtown" people naturally migrate to that area and compete for the jobs just as businesses compete for the employees.

But when you have ones who circumvent the natural flow of people to an area..........you might not get the ones you want.

Be careful what you wish for. We've been through the "Immigrant" scam that Tyson got caught up in a few years back. Ask anyone in Gainesville Georgia if they think it was good for their economy.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
TimH said:
My 17 year old just graduated in June. He is rough-necking on the oil rigs.
$23.50/hour to start plus $125.00/day living allowance.
Hmmmm....... if Tyson had to pay $20.00/hour for plant workers, would they raise the price of their beef or would they pay less for cattle???? If they raised beef prices would consumers pay it, or would they eat less beef and switch to chicken,pork or fish????
Hmmmmm????? :D

IF there was competition for fats, how could Tyson pay less for cattle? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???
 

Jason

Well-known member
You guys forget so soon.

Tyson had to do what in the States because they are losing money?

That's right slow down their plants. The same could happen here if margins were to slide.

If all packers face the same hike in costs, what is going to happen? The extra money could come from consumers paying more, or packers paying less.

Packers have no way to force consumers to pay more.

Guess the first move would be to lower bids on fats.

And Rod welefare recips don't want to work, or can't work...not much help in a labor pool.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Jason said:
You guys forget so soon.

Tyson had to do what in the States because they are losing money?

That's right slow down their plants. The same could happen here if margins were to slide.

If all packers face the same hike in costs, what is going to happen? The extra money could come from consumers paying more, or packers paying less.

Packers have no way to force consumers to pay more.

Guess the first move would be to lower bids on fats.

And Rod welefare recips don't want to work, or can't work...not much help in a labor pool.

"If all packers face the same hike in costs" isn't the deal here, so why argue the point? You're just confusing the issue.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Jason said:
If all packers face the same hike in costs, what is going to happen? The extra money could come from consumers paying more, or packers paying less.

Packers have no way to force consumers to pay more.

Guess the first move would be to lower bids on fats.

And Rod welefare recips don't want to work, or can't work...not much help in a labor pool.

You miss my point Jason. If all packers faced the same increase in costs, then ALL protein costs would go up, forcing the consumer to handle the burden. Consumers cannot simply quit eating all meats.

As for the welfare pool, again you miss my point. I've had the (mis)fortune of building a system to administer Social Assistance, and what the program has turned into turns my stomach. Originally, SA was intended as an income replacement or supplement for disabled people or single parents. Its now become a haven for lazy people.

So now, what Tyson is asking our government to do is allow hundreds or thousands of immigrants into our country when we already have tens of thousands of able bodied people who need to be forced back to work. And yes, I say forced. Current projections place 20% of Canadian citizens on social assistance by 2012.

I hope and pray that Tyson gets a PFO, but I doubt it'll happen.

Rod
 

Jason

Well-known member
All packers are facing labor shortages right now. They can't force consumers to pay more.

Consumers will only pay more if they can't get something that fits their needs cheaper.

Why do you suppose cull cows are selling higher? Hint people have switched back to hamburger because it is cheaper than steak. There are always less expensive alternatives.

I agree there are lazy people out there but they can't be forced to work. You can try to starve them if the public has the desire to stay that course, food banks etc. don't just serve the welfare cases.

Packers can't bring in immigrants without the proper papers and controls in place. I would rather immigrants come with a job in hand than get here and figure out they can live off welfare.

I'd rather have a hard working immigrant cutting beef than a welfare junkie that could care less.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Jason, "Packers can't bring in immigrants without the proper papers and controls in place"

They sure can down here in the US. What does Canada do that is different?
 

Aaron

Well-known member
Interesting little bit from the news today. Turns out that Alberta has one of the lowest payout to welfare in the country. $5005 a year for a single person. Compared to over $8000 in Newfoundland.

This automatically made me think about this thread. Albertans, get your capitalist boots on, and lobby your government to go after these welfare cheats, and tell them to either get working for someone, or get the heck out. Don't send them to Ontario...give em a pack of mary-jane and send 'em to BC! I think the rates should be raised for people with disabilities (currently $7,851 a year in Alberta), and maybe a few exceptional cases.....but one of the groups the media labelled as needing assistance was drug addicts????!!!! I flipped over when I heard that. :shock: :???:

If the people are able to work, and don't want to...ship em off. If they want to work and can't get things organized (like a single mom with 2 kids = $800 a month in AB), then I can't understand why (in AB of all places) programs aren't put in place to deal with each person, one by one, and get them established well enough to get a decent living residence and in a good working position.

Maybe re-structure the welfare program in AB, where the government gives a sizable loan, (say $3000), for a person to use to get set-up and working. Wages would be split 50/50 (1/2 going to the worker and the other 1/2 going to pay down the intial government money). Once the loan is paid off, then the worker gets the other 50%. Maybe give a larger loan ($5000) to someone who is getting more educational training.

With everyone now flooding to Alberta, I would think that serious social discussion would start being implemented to keep your province from becoming another %$#-hole Ontario. :shock: :mad:
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Jason said:
1) Why do you suppose cull cows are selling higher? Hint people have switched back to hamburger because it is cheaper than steak. There are always less expensive alternatives.

2) I agree there are lazy people out there but they can't be forced to work. You can try to starve them if the public has the desire to stay that course, food banks etc. don't just serve the welfare cases.

1) Increase wages across the board in proteins, and even hamburger must go up. Hell, we don't even have to increase wages. Pay minimum wage. Its what the immigrants would be making. Another interesting stat for you: a large majority of immigrants who land in Canada end up on Social Assistance at one time or another. So when the oil boom goes bust, or Tyson closes plants, all we end up with is a pack of immigrant SA recipients.

2) They can. The original welfare act, which BTW, has never been amended, calls for an immediate cutoff of social assistance should the recipient not prove they are seeking work. Its just no longer enforced, and it should be.

Aaron, as far as your ideas go, there are actually things called Work Opportunity Projects. And employer agrees to pay a worker $X/hr, almost always above mimimum wage, and SA tops off the payout to equal what an SA recipient would normally receive. Unfortunately, the qualification requirements of companies is rediculous, AND the only people who are allowed WOP are First Nations peoples living on reserve. If the government would open WOP up to all peoples, it would help get some people off welfare. The bums would still try to be bums, but thats where you make them starve.

The best thing that could happen is to force the bums back to work. Relocate them, assign them jobs that no-one currently has, such as picking garbage in the ditches or shovelling snow off of walks. Then they'd be doggoned happy to work in a slaughter plant.

Also, watch the dollars they speak of on the news. Those figures you were reading are only the dollars directly paid to the recipient. They don't include rent, power, heating, water or septic. When everything balances out, most recipients in most provinces are about equal.

Rod
 

Aaron

Well-known member
Rod, the $800 a month figure for a single mom with 2 kids in AB was the quote made by an SA worker in Edmonton. She specifically said that was per month, and had to cover everything from rent to food. Although, if hard pressed, the mother could apply for up to an additional $200 a month for neccessities.

Your comment about the WOP program is taken, but not nearly what I was suggesting. Actually, the way you describe the program, it seems pretty worthless. The guy on welfare doesn't receive anything extra from SA to move forward, with or without a job....but only with a job. My ideas are centered around giving the SA person extra cash to prepare him to be able to respectably present himself to an employer. Showing up in dirty, holey jeans and a sleeveless shirt with no fixed address doesn't make for the most admirable qualities in a future employee.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Aaron said:
1) Rod, the $800 a month figure for a single mom with 2 kids in AB was the quote made by an SA worker in Edmonton. She specifically said that was per month, and had to cover everything from rent to food. Although, if hard pressed, the mother could apply for up to an additional $200 a month for neccessities.

2) Your comment about the WOP program is taken, but not nearly what I was suggesting. Actually, the way you describe the program, it seems pretty worthless. The guy on welfare doesn't receive anything extra from SA to move forward, with or without a job....but only with a job. My ideas are centered around giving the SA person extra cash to prepare him to be able to respectably present himself to an employer. Showing up in dirty, holey jeans and a sleeveless shirt with no fixed address doesn't make for the most admirable qualities in a future employee.

1) I'm not sure what that SA worker was talking about then, because I just went through the SA tables a couple months ago for Alberta. $800 is more than the basic allowance, but it definitely doesn't cover rent and utilities. Perhaps she was only speaking of the federal portion (or perhaps the provincial portion) of the SA, since the province must also kick in a share? Or perhaps the province heavily subsidizes the rental of homes to these recipients, but doesn't include that in the SA money? When I think about, the latter is most likely the answer, since when Saskatchewan reports SA expenditures they don't include CMHC subsidized low income homes.

2) I know very few SA recipients who don't have decent clothes or a fixed address. Single people on SA have the worst go of it, since they are not allowed rental but rather a low room and board rate. Your idea would definitely have some merit in that case. There is however a one-time work clothing allowance paid to recipients who do find a job.

But lets look at a family of 4 on SA in Saskatchewan, since its the province I'm intimately familiar with. They get their rent and all utilities but telephone and cable taken care of, and they get a basic needs allowance of $550/mo. This basic needs amount is supplemented by family allowance of almost $600/mo. Plus Stephen Harper's new $100/kid/mo. Thats $1350/mo for food, clothing and gasoline. The man (or woman, whoever decides to work), can certainly afford decent clothes on that kind of money. If one of those parents is able bodied, and the other is able enough to look after the kids, then one should be made to work. As a taxpayer, I grow weary of subsidizing welfare recipients whose soul purpose in life is to breed more welfare recipients.

As far as the WOP program being worthless, I disagree. One of the problems with welfare is the recipients becoming dependent on the welfare and losing their desire to work (or in the case of some, not ever gaining the desire to work). WOP is in place so that these recipients can recieve on-job training and become productive members of society, not a drain. Its not intended as a way to improve one's lot in life monetarily, but rather to teach these people that working and contributing is a valuable way to spend their lives. It also provides those workers with valuable job experience, references and a way to finally improve their lot in life ON THEIR OWN. And it provides employers with workers that they may not have had access to before. Its win/win and the government simply has to have the balls to enforce the acts on the books.

Rod
 

TSR

Well-known member
Jason said:
All packers are facing labor shortages right now. They can't force consumers to pay more.

Consumers will only pay more if they can't get something that fits their needs cheaper.

Why do you suppose cull cows are selling higher? Hint people have switched back to hamburger because it is cheaper than steak. There are always less expensive alternatives.

I agree there are lazy people out there but they can't be forced to work. You can try to starve them if the public has the desire to stay that course, food banks etc. don't just serve the welfare cases.

Packers can't bring in immigrants without the proper papers and controls in place. I would rather immigrants come with a job in hand than get here and figure out they can live off welfare.

I'd rather have a hard working immigrant cutting beef than a welfare junkie that could care less.

Trouble is Jason, given time, those immigrants will learn to work the welfare system also.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Trouble is Jason, given time, those immigrants will learn to work the welfare system also.

How true!

The first generation are usually hard working people trying to make a better life for themselves, but after that it's all downhill.

When one finds out his neighbor is getting ride, it's human nature to start filling out applications. :lol:
 

Jason

Well-known member
Only immigrants will abuse the welfare system?

People with a work ethic will work even if they might qualify for gov't assistance.

In Alberta minimum wage is $7 an hour.

You can barely find a job at minimum wage, most start at $9.

8 hours at $7 is $56 a day. Average 22 working days a month, gross $1252 a month.

Welfare for Alberta is $1000 a month. Child tax benefits are received tax free working or not, Alberta also pays an extra tax benefit for working families and they pay for antibiotics and glasses and basic dental for low income working families.

The benefits for workers are better than for welfare recips, plus they make more money. Immigrants don't move halfway around the world to live below what they would make as a basic laborer. Most are looking for a chance to make a better life. Their kids wind up educated and running businesses in the communities they settle in. A handful might go bad, but local kids go bad all the time.
 
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