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U.S. Health Care Waste Larger Than Pentagon Budget

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
It's much like food. It's so expensive, yet half of it is wasted, in the US.

September 7, 2012
U.S. Health Care Waste Larger Than Pentagon Budget

It’s not exactly earth-shaking news that there’s a lot of waste in the U.S. health care system, but this item we came across still managed to stagger us: A report by the Institute of Medicine estimates that as much as $750 billion is wasted in the U.S. health care system each year. Three quarters of a trillion dollars. Every year. As the Wall Street Journal notes, that’s bigger than the Pentagon budget, amounting to roughly 5 percent of GDP.

The report offers a familiar laundry list of problems. Unnecessary services are the leading driver of waste, but administrative expenses and inefficient care are not far behind. The report has several suggestions:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/09/07/u-s-health-care-waste-larger-than-pentagon-budget/
 

Mike

Well-known member
I've always thought that they are going about the Health Care Costs the wrong way.

The problem is not health insurance, it's the price of the actual care that is out of control.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
I've always thought that they are going about the Health Care Costs the wrong way.

The problem is not health insurance, it's the price of the actual care that is out of control.

And that is part of the Catch 22---one of the reasons the health care costs rise is to cover the care of all those that have no insurance and never pay their bills... So you and I that have insurance and pay our bills do at an increased rate- which then increases the price of our insurance....
 

Lonecowboy

Well-known member
actualy the rates paid by medicaid/care as so low that they are less than the cost of the procedure so the rest of us are then charged more to subsidize this. once again govt. is the problem NOT the answer.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
I've always thought that they are going about the Health Care Costs the wrong way.

The problem is not health insurance, it's the price of the actual care that is out of control.

And that is part of the Catch 22---one of the reasons the health care costs rise is to cover the care of all those that have no insurance and never pay their bills... So you and I that have insurance and pay our bills do at an increased rate- which then increases the price of our insurance....


What % of those that don't have insurance, don't pay for the services they receive?

What $ amount is represented by those unpaid bills?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
I've always thought that they are going about the Health Care Costs the wrong way.

The problem is not health insurance, it's the price of the actual care that is out of control.

And that is part of the Catch 22---one of the reasons the health care costs rise is to cover the care of all those that have no insurance and never pay their bills... So you and I that have insurance and pay our bills do at an increased rate- which then increases the price of our insurance....


What % of those that don't have insurance, don't pay for the services they receive?

What $ amount is represented by those unpaid bills?


I don't know amounts or % --but if you look at the number of bills the hospitals/clinics turn over to the collection agencies- which in turn try to go thru the courts to collect- it has jumped 200 fold in the last 10 years....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
And that is part of the Catch 22---one of the reasons the health care costs rise is to cover the care of all those that have no insurance and never pay their bills... So you and I that have insurance and pay our bills do at an increased rate- which then increases the price of our insurance....


What % of those that don't have insurance, don't pay for the services they receive?

What $ amount is represented by those unpaid bills?


I don't know amounts or % --but if you look at the number of bills the hospitals/clinics turn over to the collection agencies- which in turn try to go thru the courts to collect- it has jumped 200 fold in the last 10 years....


So what $ amount does that represent and how does it raise your insurance costs?

It's not the insurance companies that pay for those unpaid bills. The hospitals may lose $, but not the insurance companies. If it was, it would be the insurance companies going to court and not the hospitals.


Now, I guess you could say that the hospitals overcharge the insurance companies, to pay for their "bad debts". So if they are...are the hospitals really losing out on "bad debts"?

Edited to add:

Would the amount of hospital bills that go uncollected, be greater than or less than the costs associated with obamacare?
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Anybody who thinks hospitals are losing money is mentally challenged. Rape and pillage is EXACTLY what hospital billing procedures are.

Saying that hospitals overcharge for their services is being kind. Plenty of doctors follow suit as well.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Unnecessary services are the leading driver of waste

Translation Docters are providing UNNESSCESSARY services IE doing more than needed expensive testing on patients so they are not sued by someone looking to use the Legal system to strike it rich and never have to work again AND THEIR LAWYER.

When you have small hospitals stopping providing certain services as the MALPRACTICE insurance premiums are more than they can afford you know you have a problem. And the Problem is all the lawyers in Washington DC refusing to include TORT REFORM in any Healthcare overhaul. Gee they would not want to limit their abilities to sue a docter if they are sent packing back to their old career for not doing their elected job. :mad:

I feel so strong about Tort reform being part of the answer to the US problem, I even told the Lawyer I was speaking to the other day and He agreed with me and says Montana is looking into reforms to their legal system.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
The Institute’s report took 18 months to assemble. They identified six areas of concern: unneeded services ($210 billion yearly), inefficiency in health care delivery ($130 billion), excessive administration ($190 billion), inflated prices ($105 billion), failure to prevent escalation of illness ($55 billion) and fraud ($75 billion). Accounting for overlap, they decided on a ballpark figure of $750 billion wasted every year.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
What % of those that don't have insurance, don't pay for the services they receive?

What $ amount is represented by those unpaid bills?


I don't know amounts or % --but if you look at the number of bills the hospitals/clinics turn over to the collection agencies- which in turn try to go thru the courts to collect- it has jumped 200 fold in the last 10 years....


So what $ amount does that represent and how does it raise your insurance costs?

It's not the insurance companies that pay for those unpaid bills. The hospitals may lose $, but not the insurance companies. If it was, it would be the insurance companies going to court and not the hospitals.

The hospitals are not going to lose too much- so they raise the cost on every bit of treatment and every product they furnish to those that do pay the bills -individuals and insurance- which in turn the insurance companies raise their rates...
Why do you think an aspirin in the hospital costs $25...

Why an aspirin taken in a hospital can cost upwards of $25

August 30, 2012 | Mike Alkire
Many patients take their first look at a hospital bill, only to go into sticker shock. A single aspirin for $25? Newborn diapers for $100? Why is it that products we purchase for pennies at the local drug store end up costing so much more in the hospital?

The culprit behind these high costs is our reimbursement structure.

Public programs do not fully pay for the cost of care. The latest figures estimate that hospitals lose $35 billion a year on Medicare, Medicaid and other forms of government reimbursement. For specific procedures, the picture can be even bleaker.

Take note, because this money isn’t lost – you pay the difference. Unable to absorb these losses, the bill gets passed to commercial insurers and employers that purchase health plans for their employees. Hence the itemized charges of $25 for an aspirin or $100 for diapers that are paid by insurers today, and by you and me tomorrow in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. And it’s only going to get worse as our population ages and more of us call Medicare our insurance provider.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
I don't know amounts or % --but if you look at the number of bills the hospitals/clinics turn over to the collection agencies- which in turn try to go thru the courts to collect- it has jumped 200 fold in the last 10 years....


So what $ amount does that represent and how does it raise your insurance costs?

It's not the insurance companies that pay for those unpaid bills. The hospitals may lose $, but not the insurance companies. If it was, it would be the insurance companies going to court and not the hospitals.

The hospitals are not going to lose too much- so they raise the cost on every bit of treatment and every product they furnish to those that do pay the bills -individuals and insurance- which in turn the insurance companies raise their rates...
Why do you think an aspirin in the hospital costs $25...

Why an aspirin taken in a hospital can cost upwards of $25

August 30, 2012 | Mike Alkire
Many patients take their first look at a hospital bill, only to go into sticker shock. A single aspirin for $25? Newborn diapers for $100? Why is it that products we purchase for pennies at the local drug store end up costing so much more in the hospital?

The culprit behind these high costs is our reimbursement structure.

Public programs do not fully pay for the cost of care. The latest figures estimate that hospitals lose $35 billion a year on Medicare, Medicaid and other forms of government reimbursement. For specific procedures, the picture can be even bleaker.

Take note, because this money isn’t lost – you pay the difference. Unable to absorb these losses, the bill gets passed to commercial insurers and employers that purchase health plans for their employees. Hence the itemized charges of $25 for an aspirin or $100 for diapers that are paid by insurers today, and by you and me tomorrow in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. And it’s only going to get worse as our population ages and more of us call Medicare our insurance provider.


So you are now saying it isn't due to people not paying their bills?
 

cutterone

Well-known member
I can think of several reasons why health care is so expensive.
Number 1 on the list is government intervention - ie forcing Drs and health facilities to absorb the costs for providing care to illegal immigrants and either taking the loss or pushing on to Medicare.
Fraud
Bloated administrating salaries and costs.
Over use of health coverage by individuals for every day minor health issues. Cadilac health plans for union workers wanting every issue covered with low copays.
Crap like government forcing payment to prisoners for Viagra, etc.
Refusing to help the health industry with high malpractice insurance costs.
Refusing to allow borderless insurance purchase.
Catering to the pharma companies
And even just plain greed on the part of hospitals, insurance companies, and doctors.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
So what $ amount does that represent and how does it raise your insurance costs?

It's not the insurance companies that pay for those unpaid bills. The hospitals may lose $, but not the insurance companies. If it was, it would be the insurance companies going to court and not the hospitals.

The hospitals are not going to lose too much- so they raise the cost on every bit of treatment and every product they furnish to those that do pay the bills -individuals and insurance- which in turn the insurance companies raise their rates...
Why do you think an aspirin in the hospital costs $25...

Why an aspirin taken in a hospital can cost upwards of $25

August 30, 2012 | Mike Alkire
Many patients take their first look at a hospital bill, only to go into sticker shock. A single aspirin for $25? Newborn diapers for $100? Why is it that products we purchase for pennies at the local drug store end up costing so much more in the hospital?

The culprit behind these high costs is our reimbursement structure.

Public programs do not fully pay for the cost of care. The latest figures estimate that hospitals lose $35 billion a year on Medicare, Medicaid and other forms of government reimbursement. For specific procedures, the picture can be even bleaker.

Take note, because this money isn’t lost – you pay the difference. Unable to absorb these losses, the bill gets passed to commercial insurers and employers that purchase health plans for their employees. Hence the itemized charges of $25 for an aspirin or $100 for diapers that are paid by insurers today, and by you and me tomorrow in the form of higher premiums and co-pays. And it’s only going to get worse as our population ages and more of us call Medicare our insurance provider.


So you are now saying it isn't due to people not paying their bills?

Its both- lower rates paid for medicare/medicaid patients and patients walking out on bills...Plus probably many of the reasons expressed by cutterone...

But I've seen people with no insurance get in a major accident or have a chronic disease needing extensive care and run up bills of hundreds of thousands of dollars- and walk out on the bills with the chance of ever getting them to pay about nil..
 

Mike

Well-known member
But I've seen people with no insurance get in a major accident or have a chronic disease needing extensive care and run up bills of hundreds of thousands of dollars- and walk out on the bills with the chance of ever getting them to pay about nil..

Those unpaid bills you have "seen" only amount to about 1-3% of all the "Customer Billed" hospital invoice totals.

Not-for-profit hospitals (which most are) need about 3% of their total billings to go towards charity to keep their tax exempt status.

The medical business ain't hurting. Doctor's profits and medical staff pay is at an all time high.

I had a minor outpatient surgery awhile back and my insurance was billed over $60,000.00 for a 30 minute procedure. That same surgery would have cost less than $5,000.00 in any number of Pacific Rim countries and I would have stayed in a 5 star hotel.

Like I said before. It's not the insurance companies, or the non-payers driving up medical costs. It's the astronomical amount of money hospitals & doctors charge for them. Gov't Regulation plays a big part in that.

The study says $750 BILLION is wasted in health costs each year. The $49 BILLION in unpaid bills is a drop in the bucket weighed against the total billed each year................................................
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Mike said:
omical amount of money hospitals & doctors charge for them. Gov't Regulation plays a big part in that.

The study says $750 BILLION is wasted in health costs each year. The $49 BILLION in unpaid bills is a drop in the bucket weighed against the total billed each year................................................


Mike, where did you get the $49 B figure?

I don't think it even comes close to that.
 

Mike

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Mike said:
omical amount of money hospitals & doctors charge for them. Gov't Regulation plays a big part in that.

The study says $750 BILLION is wasted in health costs each year. The $49 BILLION in unpaid bills is a drop in the bucket weighed against the total billed each year................................................


Mike, where did you get the $49 B figure?

I don't think it even comes close to that.

I read several figures/guesses that varied wildly. I sorta used a high average so as not to be misconstrued. You're correct. The true figure is probably lower but I don't want to throw wild numbers out there like some. :wink:

Plus, I have a sister-in-law who is a controller in a large area hospital. She claims they love those unpaid "write-offs" in order to raise prices.

The American Hospital Assoc. (AHA) won't divulge profits or average profits but in all likelyhood average hospital profits are very high. Also, most states limit the number of hospitals in any area. :???:

That $750 Billion in waste is an interesting figure though. That equals the amount that it costs all hospitals/medical facilities to operate. Which means that for every dollar in spending, they waste a dollar.

ObamaCare is a scam. An evil scam to keep medical costs up and the money flowing.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Its both- lower rates paid for medicare/medicaid patients and patients walking out on bills...Plus probably many of the reasons expressed by cutterone...

But I've seen people with no insurance get in a major accident or have a chronic disease needing extensive care and run up bills of hundreds of thousands of dollars- and walk out on the bills with the chance of ever getting them to pay about nil..

So explain to us what Obama's $714 Billion cuts to Medicare/Medicaid re-embrusements is going to do?


If the cuts are allowed to take effect will that not make the Hospitals jack up prices on those paying even more?

When you jack up the prices on those actually paying isn't there a big risk that the number of those walking out on their responsibility of paying is going to go up?

And if the cost are jacked up will that not force Insurance Premiums to rise to cover the cost?

If Health insurance gets even more expensive how many MORE WILL CHANCE GOING WITHOUT INSURANCE?

Please Defend the Medicare cuts that we all know are in Obamacare since you think it was, as Joe Biden said, a Big F'in deal that it passed. :roll:
 
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