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unions and wallmart

nonothing

Well-known member
We all know we must come to grips with, and stand up to, and aim to thwart, derail and defeat this Wal-Mart juggernaut. It is grinding our communities down into miserable poverty, material and cultural poverty. We know it will take union power to pull Wal-Mart's tracks out from under it. Within this, I believe that our struggle for access to health care for all -- everybody in, nobody out -- can and should be a critical component. This NYT article shows something of the potential to press our cause.

Crowning the article was a worth-a-thousand-words photo box: a young woman worker with a toddler-sized child under each arm, Wal-Mart parking lot and store sprawling out behind her. Caption: "Samantha Caizza, with children Izabella McLane, left, and Ilizah McLane, said that when Wal-Mart hired her at its Chehalis, Wash., store, it told her to contact the state for health coverage for her children." We learn in the article that Ms. Caizza was fired for "union activities."

We understand why Samantha might get involved with "union activities" while working at Wal-Mart. From reading the article we admire her courage and hope she's found a better job. I have a suggestion. Imagine if we could link organizing efforts with a practical political campaign for health care reform -- then we might give Samantha a very real way to continue her union activity after departing Wal-Mart. This might also provide a larger practical way to reach out to the entire service sector, which increasingly faces the same health care meltdown. Most of all this kind effort might provide the real nourishment necessary to revive unionism back into its proper self: as a social movement for human dignity.

When we consider that health insurance in America is employer-based, to raise the demand that access to health care be the same for all, regardless of employer or even whether employed, is to invoke working class independence. How many friends and relatives, how many of us, have chosen to stay in our present job because of its health benefits? As John Funicello put it to me recently, can you imagine the human creativity that would be unleashed if people knew their health care did not depend upon their employment, if they could seek a job they really want to work?

The acute crisis in American health care means that this is not pie-in-the-sky talk. Based upon this article, consider the stage that is being set for such an effort -- it is the Wal-Mart executive who says, "You can't solve it for the 1.2 million associates if you can't solve it for the country." We can respond, hey listen up Wal-Mart!, we have practical plan to do just that: a single payer system which would cover all necessary medical care and all prescription drugs for everyone, reduce costs, improve quality, guarantee access, offer unlimited choice of provider and expand patient and physician autonomy. We know of no other proposal which can come close to doing any of these things, let alone all of them.

Wal-Mart claims (in this article) to have spent in 2003 "about $1.3 billion of its $256 billion in revenue last year on employee health care to insure about 537,000 people." That is one-half of one percent of revenue and $2,421 per worker. Big deal! Consider that General Motors covered 1.2 million workers in 2002 at cost of $4.5 billion or two and half percent of revenue ($178 billion) and $3750 per worker. The Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt called GM "a social insurance system that sells cars to finance itself." Where will we turn to defend the benefits of GM workers, practically and immediately? Health care is a social responsibility.

Wal-Mart has been shifting the cost of its health care onto the government. Now that the Reagan Revolution has trickled down to the county level, a keen awareness of the social responsibility and the social cost to provide health care has dawned upon our local officials. Witness the recent op-ed piece on the cost of Medicaid and Albany County taxes. Earlier this year we saw the refusal of the Albany County Legislature to take a grant form Wal-Mart to subsidize vaccinations, calling upon the company to offer health insurance to its workers instead. We have openings to take our campaign to the local, state and federal government as well. (But first just one more tax cut for the rich -- Hillary and Chuck voted yes last week!)

One of the founders of Physicians for a National Health Program, David Himmelstein, recently pointed out in an interview that a labor party was the precondition for national health insurance in every country that has it (... all of the other industrial nations). While such an organization may be the precondition for universal health care -- the struggle for a real labor party also requires demands like this one. The struggle for universal health care in America now emerges not only as a practical demand, not only as a principled one -- it is much more: a demand which will can strengthen the position of all workers in their individual as well as their collective struggles against their bosses. I believe the empowerment offered by universal health care could help derail the Wal-Mart juggernaut, which feeds upon our economic and social desperation as it leads the "race to the bottom."

To those who say that because unions have better benefits to offer, benefits which remain a key inducement to join them, it is therefore 'not yet' time to advocate for universal health care, I would propose:

1. Let us take health benefits off the bargaining table. Get back to fighting for better wages and working conditions. Lets make union life a better life, overall. 2. Workers will be more likely to join a movement that demands justice for all -- and shows how to fight for it, practically. 3. If all necessary medical care were provided by a single payer system then there would be nothing to prevent unions from offering social insurance to workers, like maternity and paternity leave, tuition benefits, child-care, and so on, in addition to those elective medical and dental treatments not covered by the national plan.

We should look upon this fight with confidence and creativity. Without this struggle, health care in America will only get worse. Yet I have an inkling that when we stand up to the health care monopolies, with the temerity to suggest that profiteering from human illness represents a crime against humanity, we will be on our way to breaking one of the chains that holds us down.
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
After all, look what unions and employee paid health care have done for General Motors and Ford.

Who says an employer is responsible for the health insurance of their employees?

P. S. I pay for me employees health insurance.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I firmly believe the health-care coverage problem will largely take care of itself if the costs of providing that coverage are addressed. The problem is that health costs are too dang high, no matter who is paying for them. One of the biggest costs that could be trimmed is the cost of mal-practice insurance.

We all have to subsidize our doctor's huge malpractice insurance bills. Their premiums are sky high because of this letigous happy society we live in. We need legislation to put guidelines and limits on medical lawsuits and attorney's cuts of the funds. This was tried in Congress but failed, largely due to the efforts of the same folks who are trying to install a national system.

Another problem as I see it is the cost of drugs. The drug companies claim they need to charge what they do primarily to recoup R & D costs. Yet, their single largest expense is advertising. Here they are advertising for a product that you can't go out and buy. :shock: That defies common sense. Guess who pays for that advertising? We all do.
 

Cal

Well-known member
We all know we must come to grips with, and stand up to, and aim to thwart, derail and defeat this Wal-Mart juggernaut. It is grinding our communities down into miserable poverty, material and cultural poverty. We know it will take union power to pull Wal-Mart's tracks out from under it. Within this, I believe that our struggle for access to health care for all -- everybody in, nobody out -- can and should be a critical component. This NYT article shows something of the potential to press our cause.

All hot air from a victim mentality. Unions are a dying breed, thankfully, they've already damaged enough industries. The only thing that will nudge Wal-Mart out is when somebody comes up with a better and more efficient distribution system and business model. Ever notice all the businesses that seem to crop up around Wal-Mart's? Ever know of anyone who was actually forced to work at Wal-Mart? One thing that is real plentiful in the US is help wanted signs.
 

CattleRMe

Well-known member
Maybe we need a universal health care plan like our friendly neighbors to the north Canada? If companies don't want to provide health insurance or pay employees so they can afford it then what is the answer? My understanding is Canadians pay a tax for it off of payroll. I'm for it something needs to be done to our current health care system and insurance.

A family of four easily pays 450 dollars a month. An older couple can pay 700 easily a month. Who can really afford it?? Yet who can afford to be without it when something happens?
 

BBJ

Well-known member
The last thing we need is a government run health care system! I cannot believe anyone would support that. :shock: Look at welfare, :eek: Yeah that turned out to be a real winner, huh? If Wal-Mart, Exxon or Cowpuncher decides not to pay for employees health insurance then that is their RIGHT. If you are fed up because your employer doesn't provide it, then quit. After enough good workers quit for that reason then maybe the employers will rethink it, but to suggest the govt. should make them or run the system is BAD NEWS. :cry:

My employer doesn't provide me with insurance but he tries to compensate with pay. I buy my own insurance, where as others in the company use that money for weekend fun. It's their choice to spend that money in a manner they see fit and the same goes for me. I know this whole mess is deeper than this because when the ones that don't have money to pay the bills when they get sick it affects the ones that do, but to go at it thinking someone else should tell them, me or anyone else how to spend their money is absurd.

Thats my $0.02 worth and it was probably overpriced too. :wink:
 

Steve

Well-known member
Maybe we need a universal health care plan like our friendly neighbors to the north Canada?

England has socialized medicine....you wait for care, you wait for surgery, the only thing that gets done is suffering.....

My mother in law waited seven years for a heart by pass,,,,,,and finaly had it done, in Philadelphia.....

she waited for a cat scan, never got one, she waited for chemo, treatment for pancreatic cancer, never got it.....she died a horrific painful death......

had she lived in this country she would have recieved the bypass that weekend,,,,,,a cat scan within a week,,,and chemo to live a full retirement....

instead she waited for her turn, to be treated.....she recieved the ok for the cat scan that would have caught the cancer, two years after she died.....
 

jigs

Well-known member
problem is that we all DESERVE a free ride, we are ENTITLED to big wages, and benefits. the companies OWE us a life of luxury.

at least the unions brainwash the employees to believe that.

why can't a man just work for what he is worth? when my cousins and I talk money, and I tell them what I live on in a year, they are flabbergasted.....they think I am a poor foolish man. but they go to an office everyday, and I do what I do....

keep your money and full benefit package, I will be poor and live like I want, plus, my doctor will bill me and wait till harvest to be paid !! stick that up your HMO
 

nonothing

Well-known member
sonds like most of you folks want to pay for your medicare..thats fine...I just thought if i ran a company keeping my work force healthy,happy and a share in the wealth is a good idea...treating people well is not bad bussiness......Rather than always focusing on the ten percent who take advantage of situations,why not , look at the 90 percent in which the situations does help....I am not saying there are not people taking advantage of the situations...but people take more then they eat at most buffet tables across this land,,should buffetts style of serving be abolished? Or could people understand that again most do finish what they take,and those that dont,get magnified to the tenth degree.
 

nonothing

Well-known member
to all those who think the wallmarts are a good thing for their country.I challenge you all to read the book "Nickled and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich.......Maybe you will understand more........or go to



http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/
 

Steve

Well-known member
an interesting thing is we live in a free country. we can if we choose work for walmart, shop at walmart,


or not.....if walmart treated employees so bad most would quit...

if we feel that walmart is a bad store, then don't shop there.....but most choose to just whine about how big they are, how well run they are, and how they don't have health insurance.....or do they ?..
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better coverage then my wife had at Union controlled Shop Rite......

if poor wages, dismal oportunities and lack of health care are a concern then "better" oneself.....

find a career in need of help.....find a training program, sacrifice, and step up......
 

BBJ

Well-known member
nonothing said:
to all those who think the wallmarts are a good thing for their country.I challenge you all to read the book "Nickled and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich.......Maybe you will understand more........or go to



http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/


I'm assuming you don't EVER shop at walmart right?


I personally hate walmart. Not because of their size or because they dont provide health insurance for their employees but because........................







When the wife and I go, there is always tons of people there. To be such a horrible place, the parking lot is always full and I don't ever see a shortage of workers when I'm there.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
I don't worship @ WalMart's door but here in the rural South they are pretty handy and one stop shopping is better than wasting gas running all over the county from this store to that for one thing or another.

We have 2 SUPER WalMarts within a 40 mile radius now and more Mom & Pop stores than ever.....so they have not 'damaged' our local economy one bit.
 

BBJ

Well-known member
nonothing said:
read the book then come tell me again your same thoughts ........if ya dare

Truthfully I don't have the time nor the desire to read a book directed at the evil empire of walmart. How bout you hit the high points of it for us? What have you read that was so terrible?
 

CattleRMe

Well-known member
BBJ said:
nonothing said:
read the book then come tell me again your same thoughts ........if ya dare

Truthfully I don't have the time nor the desire to read a book directed at the evil empire of walmart. How bout you hit the high points of it for us? What have you read that was so terrible?

No time to read cause you are all booked up at ranchers. :wink:
 

BBJ

Well-known member
CattleRMe said:
BBJ said:
nonothing said:
read the book then come tell me again your same thoughts ........if ya dare

Truthfully I don't have the time nor the desire to read a book directed at the evil empire of walmart. How bout you hit the high points of it for us? What have you read that was so terrible?

No time to read cause you are all booked up at ranchers. :wink:

Don't avoid it, tell us of the great injustices :p the evil walmart imposes on the world.

Maybe you think President Bush should have taken out Walmart or maybe Macon? :shock:
 

CattleRMe

Well-known member
BBJ said:
CattleRMe said:
BBJ said:
Truthfully I don't have the time nor the desire to read a book directed at the evil empire of walmart. How bout you hit the high points of it for us? What have you read that was so terrible?

No time to read cause you are all booked up at ranchers. :wink:

Don't avoid it, tell us of the great injustices :p the evil walmart imposes on the world.

Maybe you think President Bush should have taken out Walmart or maybe Macon? :shock:

I haven't read it but I'm thinking of taking the dare to. I shop at Walmart I like the convience of one stop shopping and also here there isn't a lot of choice.

As far as Macon no I think this is a great site and ran well. I just questioned one item and I think when we are involved in something usually questions arrive. I can disagree with someone and not want harm to be caused to them or even harbor bad feelings.
 
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