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Jason

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Who eats all the burger the US processes?

The top 25% of incomes in the US is $57,343 and up.

The bottom 50% is $29,019 and lower.

Who thinks it would be wise to promote a policy that would price grind higher than the bottom 50% of wage earners can afford?
 

Econ101

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Jason said:
Who eats all the burger the US processes?

The top 25% of incomes in the US is $57,343 and up.

The bottom 50% is $29,019 and lower.

Who thinks it would be wise to promote a policy that would price grind higher than the bottom 50% of wage earners can afford?

Who is doing that, Jason? Hamburgers right now are a deal. Go to Wendy's and get a cheeseburger for a dollar. Why are you saying anyone is pricing hamburger out of bottom 50% reach? I would much rather see the bottom half make more than the 29k so they could treat their families to a steak. You want them to barely make it at a packing plant.
 

mrj

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It would have been interesting had that story carried the information on cost of living in the states for which they quoted the incomes.

Also, if they had included the fact that the cost of food in the USA is about 9% of income. The facts on number of homes with one or more TV's and other luxuries is interesting on the rare occasions it is mentioned.

Econ, maybe some businesses could pay more to their workers, but then they will also raise prices for their products, won't they?

Some complain the minimum wage is too low. They ignore the fact is it intended as a beginning wage for people learning to work, and that many of them do not even really earn what they are paid at the beginning of their employment. Sadly, some never do!

I do know that raising the minimum wage also prices some jobs out of the market......and leaves small business owners unable to hire needed workers and still make a profit and keep their doors open.

Isn't the answer better education, young people making better choices in life, working and earning and saving before starting families, etc.?

BTW, seeing some anti-smoking programs discussed on TV today makes me wonder why no one shows young people how to figure out what cigarettes would cost them over one, ten, or 25 years and discuss what they could buy or do with that money that would be more fun than smoking. Then maybe bring in some of the associated health costs, and show them how they can do so much better financially by not smoking. Has anyone seen this done any place?

MRJ
 

Sandhusker

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MRJ, "BTW, seeing some anti-smoking programs discussed on TV today makes me wonder why no one shows young people how to figure out what cigarettes would cost them over one, ten, or 25 years and discuss what they could buy or do with that money that would be more fun than smoking. Then maybe bring in some of the associated health costs, and show them how they can do so much better financially by not smoking. Has anyone seen this done any place?"

I agree with you 100% on this one, MRJ. Talk about a pi$$ away of money, long term health, and image.... and for what in return?

Ever notice how such a large proportion of smokers are in the lower income groups? Maybe we would be doing them a favor by raising the price of food up so that they can't affort smokes? :wink:
 

Econ101

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MRJ said:
It would have been interesting had that story carried the information on cost of living in the states for which they quoted the incomes.

Also, if they had included the fact that the cost of food in the USA is about 9% of income. The facts on number of homes with one or more TV's and other luxuries is interesting on the rare occasions it is mentioned.

Econ, maybe some businesses could pay more to their workers, but then they will also raise prices for their products, won't they?

Some complain the minimum wage is too low. They ignore the fact is it intended as a beginning wage for people learning to work, and that many of them do not even really earn what they are paid at the beginning of their employment. Sadly, some never do!

I do know that raising the minimum wage also prices some jobs out of the market......and leaves small business owners unable to hire needed workers and still make a profit and keep their doors open.

Isn't the answer better education, young people making better choices in life, working and earning and saving before starting families, etc.?

BTW, seeing some anti-smoking programs discussed on TV today makes me wonder why no one shows young people how to figure out what cigarettes would cost them over one, ten, or 25 years and discuss what they could buy or do with that money that would be more fun than smoking. Then maybe bring in some of the associated health costs, and show them how they can do so much better financially by not smoking. Has anyone seen this done any place?

MRJ

MRJ, I totally agree with you on the ciggs. My dad smokes and I wish he didn't. He stops sometimes but not enough. My Dad's aunt died of emphasima smoking a cigg and on the oxygen machine. Not a good sight. It is too bad too many poor people smoke to handle stress or to socialize. It is funny how so much of the tobacco money went into state coffers instead of the agreed upon anti-smoking campaigns.

MRJ, Tyson has tried to be the low cost and highest margin poultry producer and packing operator but off of the backs of their employed. Why do you think they have so many labor problems. When they speed the lines up, they do not increase the wages, but they do increase the work load. In our area they had to bring in a lot of foreign workers to put up with this kind of management.

As far as having to increase prices because of higher wages, yes sometimes they have to increase the price of goods, sometimes not. It is pretty bad that someone that treats employees decent has to compete with someone who does not. Food in the U.S. is cheap. I would rather see people make decent wages at whatever job it is they do as long as they work hard and earn it.

Someone has to work on those packing plant kind of jobs. I sure wouldn't do it for what they pay---unless I really had to. Those people working at those jobs should be respected for what they do. To me it is lot harder working at a factory type job where you do the same old thing over and over than the brainy kind of jobs that require higher education. I still respect the people who do them. I am just not willing to cheat them in some way or another.
 

cowzilla

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Funny how we treat the people who handle our food like crap and pay them a @##@%&^ wage but expect them to produce a good quality product :roll: And we trust them to do so :!:
 

Jason

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We have previously posted Canadian slaughter house employee wages and asked our American friends to post the wages from there but no one has.

Without knowing what they get paid how can anyone say they don't get enough?

Interestingly the wage number was ag workers exempted.

The article was talking about all US taxpayers, not just packer employees.

The actual money they deserve is a seperate discussion. The point is it is a fact that half of Americans live on $29,019 or less. How would making ground beef more expensive help the beef industry?

That is what people that want no imports, that want to grind round and/or chucks are asking for. How would it help the American producer to lose 50% of their domestic customers?
 
A

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Montana falls under the less than $29,000 average with an average of $27,000-- I know some of the non-industry, all agriculture counties are closer to and less than the 20K mark.........The average wage in food services is under $11,000......

But Montanans want to know where their food (beef) comes from- shown by the support behind last years passing of a State M-COOL law....
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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Oldtimer said:
Montana falls under the less than $29,000 average with an average of $27,000-- I know some of the non-industry, all agriculture counties are closer to and less than the 20K mark.........The average wage in food services is under $11,000......

But Montanans want to know where their food (beef) comes from- shown by the support behind last years passing of a State M-COOL law....


OT,

I would bet that if there was a choice between a roast that looked the very same and one was from the US and the other( from NZ) was $1.00 per LB cheaper the low income earner would buy the cheaper. Consumers are that way. They go for the best buy.
 

Sandhusker

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You know, Jason, I play cribbage with my dad a lot. Oftentimes, he will tear up his own hand so as not to throw anything that might work in my crib. I laugh at him. I say, "Dad, what you're doing is hurting yourself against the chance that I MIGHT hurt you. You're guaranteed to get hurt, because you're the one doing it. Where is the win?"

It seems to me your arguement is following the same lines, Jason. You think producers should take it in the shorts and let packers replace what we sell with imports because burger MIGHT get to pricey for some folks, they'll buy chicken, and we'll take it in the shorts. We're guaranteed to take it in the shorts. Where is the win?

I'm not real concerned that burger will get too expensive. Like Agman pointed out, you can get a fully prepared hamburger at fast food joints for $1 - that's less than a bottle of pop in most places.
 
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Manitoba_Rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Montana falls under the less than $29,000 average with an average of $27,000-- I know some of the non-industry, all agriculture counties are closer to and less than the 20K mark.........The average wage in food services is under $11,000......

But Montanans want to know where their food (beef) comes from- shown by the support behind last years passing of a State M-COOL law....


OT,

I would bet that if there was a choice between a roast that looked the very same and one was from the US and the other( from NZ) was $1.00 per LB cheaper the low income earner would buy the cheaper. Consumers are that way. They go for the best buy.

But most also know what has kept their states economy as alive as it is thru the loss of their timber and oil industry to the cheap Canadian imports- and it darn sure hasn't been what the southbound bullhaulers and Trans-X trucks are hauling.....And they have shown their willingness to support that industry..

I just saw a statewide news article last week where the state figures show that last year was a record Ag income year- even with low wheat prices, mainly made up with high cattle prices which was partially associated with the closed Canadian border.....
 

Jason

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Sandhusker said:
You know, Jason, I play cribbage with my dad a lot. Oftentimes, he will tear up his own hand so as not to throw anything that might work in my crib. I laugh at him. I say, "Dad, what you're doing is hurting yourself against the chance that I MIGHT hurt you. You're guaranteed to get hurt, because you're the one doing it. Where is the win?"

It seems to me your arguement is following the same lines, Jason. You think producers should take it in the shorts and let packers replace what we sell with imports because burger MIGHT get to pricey for some folks, they'll buy chicken, and we'll take it in the shorts. We're guaranteed to take it in the shorts. Where is the win?

I'm not real concerned that burger will get too expensive. Like Agman pointed out, you can get a fully prepared hamburger at fast food joints for $1 - that's less than a bottle of pop in most places.

How are you taking it in the shorts now? The imports are there and you have record prices. Everytime you add value to a carcass it helps the producer.

I am not saying just sit back and do nothing however. Add more value to the carcass by breeding better genetics, use better management like no needles in the rump, promote beef every chance you get. Challenge the false statements about beef being too fat, challenge the statements about fat being totally evil. Facts like 30% of our daily calories should come from fat is news to a lot of people, sadly ranchers included.

If more people choose beef it creates more demand which is good for all sectors.
 

Econ101

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How are you taking it in the shorts now? The imports are there and you have record prices. Everytime you add value to a carcass it helps the producer.
That is the grasshopper argument. I tend to be an ant.
 

mrj

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Econ101 said:
MRJ said:
It would have been interesting had that story carried the information on cost of living in the states for which they quoted the incomes.

Also, if they had included the fact that the cost of food in the USA is about 9% of income. The facts on number of homes with one or more TV's and other luxuries is interesting on the rare occasions it is mentioned.

Econ, maybe some businesses could pay more to their workers, but then they will also raise prices for their products, won't they?

Some complain the minimum wage is too low. They ignore the fact is it intended as a beginning wage for people learning to work, and that many of them do not even really earn what they are paid at the beginning of their employment. Sadly, some never do!

I do know that raising the minimum wage also prices some jobs out of the market......and leaves small business owners unable to hire needed workers and still make a profit and keep their doors open.

Isn't the answer better education, young people making better choices in life, working and earning and saving before starting families, etc.?

BTW, seeing some anti-smoking programs discussed on TV today makes me wonder why no one shows young people how to figure out what cigarettes would cost them over one, ten, or 25 years and discuss what they could buy or do with that money that would be more fun than smoking. Then maybe bring in some of the associated health costs, and show them how they can do so much better financially by not smoking. Has anyone seen this done any place?

MRJ

MRJ, I totally agree with you on the ciggs. My dad smokes and I wish he didn't. He stops sometimes but not enough. My Dad's aunt died of emphasima smoking a cigg and on the oxygen machine. Not a good sight. It is too bad too many poor people smoke to handle stress or to socialize. It is funny how so much of the tobacco money went into state coffers instead of the agreed upon anti-smoking campaigns.

MRJ, Tyson has tried to be the low cost and highest margin poultry producer and packing operator but off of the backs of their employed. Why do you think they have so many labor problems. When they speed the lines up, they do not increase the wages, but they do increase the work load. In our area they had to bring in a lot of foreign workers to put up with this kind of management.

As far as having to increase prices because of higher wages, yes sometimes they have to increase the price of goods, sometimes not. It is pretty bad that someone that treats employees decent has to compete with someone who does not. Food in the U.S. is cheap. I would rather see people make decent wages at whatever job it is they do as long as they work hard and earn it.

Someone has to work on those packing plant kind of jobs. I sure wouldn't do it for what they pay---unless I really had to. Those people working at those jobs should be respected for what they do. To me it is lot harder working at a factory type job where you do the same old thing over and over than the brainy kind of jobs that require higher education. I still respect the people who do them. I am just not willing to cheat them in some way or another.

Econ, I need to be shown some proof that Tyson et. al. are the guilty parties in not raising wages. How do you know there isn't an element of Union organizers at work promoting the labor problems? Where would they get the money to increase the laborers wages? I really don't want them to cut the prices they pay for cattle, and where else are they going to get the money from? And what happens when such industries try to mechanize more......more complaints of "worker abuse" seems the usual.

Re. packing plant wages, I do know that some years ago young men from ranches went to work in some of those plants because the beginning wages were far higher than anything else a guy just out of highschool could get. Don't know what they are currently. But do know that management can't just set the wages at what laborers want without having it come from somewhere. Isn't it probable that in most factory type jobs, those who excell, come to work sober, work hard, maybe attend classes to improve themselves....will rise above the bottom of the wage scale? Who says the workers are not respected for what they do, but doesn't respect have to be earned by appropriate behaviors?

MRJ
 

frenchie

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Oldtimer said:
But most also know what has kept their states economy as alive as it is thru the loss of their timber and oil industry to the cheap Canadian imports-

So you want higher fuel prices Dick?...Was not too long ago you were complaining about the price of fuel.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Sandhusker said:
You know, Jason, I play cribbage with my dad a lot. Oftentimes, he will tear up his own hand so as not to throw anything that might work in my crib. I laugh at him. I say, "Dad, what you're doing is hurting yourself against the chance that I MIGHT hurt you. You're guaranteed to get hurt, because you're the one doing it. Where is the win?"

Well, well, well, Sandhusker. It sounds like your dad has the typical r-calf mentality. Surely he must be a member of your fine organization. A little bit of paranoia in the genes, perhaps?
 

Econ101

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MRJ said:
Econ101 said:
MRJ said:
It would have been interesting had that story carried the information on cost of living in the states for which they quoted the incomes.

Also, if they had included the fact that the cost of food in the USA is about 9% of income. The facts on number of homes with one or more TV's and other luxuries is interesting on the rare occasions it is mentioned.

Econ, maybe some businesses could pay more to their workers, but then they will also raise prices for their products, won't they?

Some complain the minimum wage is too low. They ignore the fact is it intended as a beginning wage for people learning to work, and that many of them do not even really earn what they are paid at the beginning of their employment. Sadly, some never do!

I do know that raising the minimum wage also prices some jobs out of the market......and leaves small business owners unable to hire needed workers and still make a profit and keep their doors open.

Isn't the answer better education, young people making better choices in life, working and earning and saving before starting families, etc.?

BTW, seeing some anti-smoking programs discussed on TV today makes me wonder why no one shows young people how to figure out what cigarettes would cost them over one, ten, or 25 years and discuss what they could buy or do with that money that would be more fun than smoking. Then maybe bring in some of the associated health costs, and show them how they can do so much better financially by not smoking. Has anyone seen this done any place?

MRJ

MRJ, I totally agree with you on the ciggs. My dad smokes and I wish he didn't. He stops sometimes but not enough. My Dad's aunt died of emphasima smoking a cigg and on the oxygen machine. Not a good sight. It is too bad too many poor people smoke to handle stress or to socialize. It is funny how so much of the tobacco money went into state coffers instead of the agreed upon anti-smoking campaigns.

MRJ, Tyson has tried to be the low cost and highest margin poultry producer and packing operator but off of the backs of their employed. Why do you think they have so many labor problems. When they speed the lines up, they do not increase the wages, but they do increase the work load. In our area they had to bring in a lot of foreign workers to put up with this kind of management.

As far as having to increase prices because of higher wages, yes sometimes they have to increase the price of goods, sometimes not. It is pretty bad that someone that treats employees decent has to compete with someone who does not. Food in the U.S. is cheap. I would rather see people make decent wages at whatever job it is they do as long as they work hard and earn it.

Someone has to work on those packing plant kind of jobs. I sure wouldn't do it for what they pay---unless I really had to. Those people working at those jobs should be respected for what they do. To me it is lot harder working at a factory type job where you do the same old thing over and over than the brainy kind of jobs that require higher education. I still respect the people who do them. I am just not willing to cheat them in some way or another.

Econ, I need to be shown some proof that Tyson et. al. are the guilty parties in not raising wages. How do you know there isn't an element of Union organizers at work promoting the labor problems? Where would they get the money to increase the laborers wages? I really don't want them to cut the prices they pay for cattle, and where else are they going to get the money from? And what happens when such industries try to mechanize more......more complaints of "worker abuse" seems the usual.

Re. packing plant wages, I do know that some years ago young men from ranches went to work in some of those plants because the beginning wages were far higher than anything else a guy just out of highschool could get. Don't know what they are currently. But do know that management can't just set the wages at what laborers want without having it come from somewhere. Isn't it probable that in most factory type jobs, those who excell, come to work sober, work hard, maybe attend classes to improve themselves....will rise above the bottom of the wage scale? Who says the workers are not respected for what they do, but doesn't respect have to be earned by appropriate behaviors?

MRJ

MRJ, There will never be enough proof for you presented to change your mind on anything.

Don't worry, Tyson did not cut the price paid for cattle in Canada due to labor costs.

Tyson has coyoted in workers from Mexico to get some of their labor in the U.S. I don't know why SH didn't get those coyotes, must have been too far south for his area. I would venture to guess it is the same way in Canada but I do not know. I would fire drunk workers too, if I were a company paying the bill. I don't think that is what the labor issue is about.
 

Sandhusker

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Maple Leaf Angus said:
Sandhusker said:
You know, Jason, I play cribbage with my dad a lot. Oftentimes, he will tear up his own hand so as not to throw anything that might work in my crib. I laugh at him. I say, "Dad, what you're doing is hurting yourself against the chance that I MIGHT hurt you. You're guaranteed to get hurt, because you're the one doing it. Where is the win?"

Well, well, well, Sandhusker. It sounds like your dad has the typical r-calf mentality. Surely he must be a member of your fine organization. A little bit of paranoia in the genes, perhaps?

My post had what to do with R-CALF? It appears you have attended the SH School of Debate!
 

Sandhusker

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Jason, " Everytime you add value to a carcass it helps the producer. "

It helps the packer everytime. They don't always share in the bounty. I repeat again that packers will pay the least amount for cattle as they can. Canadian producers, of all people, should realize this - you just went thru a hosing royale from the packers. Were you compensated for your value or did the packers play low ball?
 

Econ101

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Jason:"The imports are there and you have record prices. Everytime you add value to a carcass it helps the producer. "

The argument for the increased price spread between retail and producer level has always been value added by processors. You can not claim that when you add value to a carcass it helps the producer unless part of it is passed down to the producers. There has been no proof of that happening.
 

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