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USDA _ $11 Million to Improve Animals

PureCountry

Well-known member
Has anyone actually read this crock of spit? The idea behind the money, is to help Universities and Colleges with research into animal genomics in order to improve the health, safety and nutrition of food products. WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO FRIGGIN WAKE UP AND CLUE IN TO THE FACT THAT NUTRITION COMES FROM HEALTHY SOILS???!!!!!!!??????? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENETICS!!!!! :mad: :mad: This is so back-asswards it makes as much sense as an elevator in an outhouse.
 

WyomingRancher

Well-known member
PureCountry said:
Has anyone actually read this crock of spit? The idea behind the money, is to help Universities and Colleges with research into animal genomics in order to improve the health, safety and nutrition of food products. WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO FRIGGIN WAKE UP AND CLUE IN TO THE FACT THAT NUTRITION COMES FROM HEALTHY SOILS???!!!!!!!??????? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENETICS!!!!! :mad: :mad: This is so back-asswards it makes as much sense as an elevator in an outhouse.

:???: Keep going, I want to hear what you have to say...
 

per

Well-known member
PureCountry said:
Has anyone actually read this crock of spit? The idea behind the money, is to help Universities and Colleges with research into animal genomics in order to improve the health, safety and nutrition of food products. WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO FRIGGIN WAKE UP AND CLUE IN TO THE FACT THAT NUTRITION COMES FROM HEALTHY SOILS???!!!!!!!??????? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GENETICS!!!!! :mad: :mad: This is so back-asswards it makes as much sense as an elevator in an outhouse.

There is a condo style 2 story outhouse behind the hotel at Heritage Park in Calgary that could us an elevator. :wink:
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
I'm sure if you asked the right branch of the Alberta Gov't, you could get a grant to install that elevator if you said it was all in the name of nutrient management research. :lol:

Okay WYO, I've cooled down for a bit now, got the kidlets all into bed, and got my hot water and honey. I'll expand on my previous rant.

In my opinion, if any government really cares about the future of their nation, they will focus on the health of their citizens. If we start with that, we must ask, where does human health start? It all starts with nutrition, which starts in the soil. How many of you Americans have heard of inner city schools in your larger centers where they removed all junk food and vending machines, and filled the cafeterias with fruit, veggies, REAL fruit juices, milk, water, and staple foods? In any of the cases I've read about, kids with ADD or ADHD had vastly improved behavioural patterns, and the majority were able to stop their use of drugs like Ridlin. Cases of violence and drug use decreased, and teachers commented that the overall mood of the schools greatly improved. In agriculture, we would call that a test plot, or field trial, and I'm pretty sure we'd call it a success.

In the research of Dr. Weston A. Price (www.westonaprice.org) who was a dentist in the 20's and 30's, he found that tribes, villages and clans that were isolated from urban centers by way of topography, status or what-have-you, had no cases of TB, cancers, or heart disease, and all of the citizens had wide pallates with large, strong healthy teeth. They had no dental plans or even dentists. What they had was absolutely ZERO exposure to processed foods, such as white flour or refined white sugar. What they also had was a nutrient dense diet of foods that came solely from the land they lived on and loved. It came from rich, fertile soils high in organic matter and most of the 90+ elements found in nature.

That's right, I said it, 90+ elements found in properly functioning soils. You may be able to grow a crop with just 3 of them - NPK - but you're depleting your soils more and more every year.

Anyway, I'm sure you get my point. Anyone who thinks they can grow a healthy food product - BEEF INCLUDED - without paying attention to what's going on in their soils, cannot confidently speak of their product - BEEF INCLUDED - as being healthy. If we focus on production, we lose. If we focus on soil health, we win every time. And profit will follow with it.

Just my 2000 bits worth. :wink:
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
Bit #2001:

Just wanted to add that raw, unpasteurized milk was a common denominator in Price's findings around the world also. A key point to remember though, it was milk from grass raised animals(goats, cows, yaks, horses) that were eating the grass from the fertile pastures. People trying to sell raw milk without knowing what's going on in their soils are playing Russian Roulette in my opinion. Your soils could be full of pathogens of various degrees of danger, and if the cow's system isn't getting all the nutrients it needs from the soil, she, and her milk could be very susceptible to disease or harmful bacteria.

So for all the times you hear people rambling about raw foods, whole foods, organic foods, blah, blah, blah............including me at times, we have to remember that it all goes back to the soil. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, package it, label it, market it; if it ain't from healthy soils, how could it be full of nutrients?
 

WyomingRancher

Well-known member
That's interesting PureCountry. I especially relate to the mood/behavior and diet comment. I'm sensitive to gluten, and if I eat wheat, watch out! Not only do I get digestive problems, I become extremely irritable, and can't cope with a thing... ADD/ADHD???

I never believed this hooey until I learned about my food allergy, and started eating better foods. I've never been big on eating processed foods before, but now I really focus on shopping the edges of the grocery stores. Can't believe the crap we eat :? .
 

RSL

Well-known member
PC - I believe in what you say, and coming from AB I think it is actually healthy soil, air and water. I really thought over your post last night and while i agree wholeheartedly with your position, I don't think the genome project is bad.
Let me explain. First, soil air and water are sorely neglected and definitely not "in vogue" as far as attracting research/educational funding (until we run out of water - then look out). And we usually look for simple technological fixes for things that run much deeper.
I don't think there is anything wrong with working to understand the genome though. It may provide insight into things like GF's 23 year old cow, or how animals interact with the environment around them, or who knows... The research is not wrong in itself.
Genomics is very much the golden child right now, possibly with good reason and possibly without. It's not wrong to research it.
I do think we are wrong to ignore or discount the very things that you are concerned about - soil, air and water.
There is some great work done on diabetes among native populations as well (disease is rampant there) where changing back to a traditional diet eliminated the problem (no insulin), as well as several other key examples. I probably subscribe to the Buddist theory that everything is intricately connected and anything we do may have vast implications on the surrounding world.
 

per

Well-known member
RSL all research can be good for sure. I can find plenty of research to dispute your assertion that Alberta has clean air though. Much of the work that Cheryl Waldner from the U of S has done points to deteriorating air quality here. The Western Beef Productivity Study measured air quality while following several thousand cattle around in a two year period. It was a real eye opener.

Our soils here are also depleted. Not like in a high rainfall area and we have lots of potential. There is the information and availability of materials to feed the biology and the chemistry to come up with healthy plant. Most of what we need is education and motivation to apply the physics.
 

Blkbuckaroo

Well-known member
Without ranting myself,i'll just say i appreciate what you guys have to say about soil health,certainly starts there,and taking sugar out of kids diets is a no brainer.The amount of research money spent on some of these studies can be little bewildering,as we've seen in the past.Thanks for your insight.
 

RSL

Well-known member
per said:
RSL all research can be good for sure. I can find plenty of research to dispute your assertion that Alberta has clean air though. Much of the work that Cheryl Waldner from the U of S has done points to deteriorating air quality here. The Western Beef Productivity Study measured air quality while following several thousand cattle around in a two year period. It was a real eye opener.

Our soils here are also depleted. Not like in a high rainfall area and we have lots of potential. There is the information and availability of materials to feed the biology and the chemistry to come up with healthy plant. Most of what we need is education and motivation to apply the physics.

WWHHOOAA!!! I did not think that I asserted we have clean air, water or otherwise. PC and I both live in one of the most disrespected watersheds in all of AB, I have serious concerns about air in AB, and I know we don't have a good understanding, let along a respect for the soil or land at the higher reaches (and often the lower reaches) of power. Take a look at the coal bed methane around Drumheller and see what it did to their groundwater, or travel up to Fort Mac, or visit the oil upgraders along Hwy 16, etc.

That said there are some pretty good groups out there with interest and concern (worldwide).
 

per

Well-known member
RSL said:
per said:
RSL all research can be good for sure. I can find plenty of research to dispute your assertion that Alberta has clean air though. Much of the work that Cheryl Waldner from the U of S has done points to deteriorating air quality here. The Western Beef Productivity Study measured air quality while following several thousand cattle around in a two year period. It was a real eye opener.

Our soils here are also depleted. Not like in a high rainfall area and we have lots of potential. There is the information and availability of materials to feed the biology and the chemistry to come up with healthy plant. Most of what we need is education and motivation to apply the physics.

WWHHOOAA!!! I did not think that I asserted we have clean air, water or otherwise. PC and I both live in one of the most disrespected watersheds in all of AB, I have serious concerns about air in AB, and I know we don't have a good understanding, let along a respect for the soil or land at the higher reaches (and often the lower reaches) of power. Take a look at the coal bed methane around Drumheller and see what it did to their groundwater, or travel up to Fort Mac, or visit the oil upgraders along Hwy 16, etc.

That said there are some pretty good groups out there with interest and concern (worldwide).

Sorry, didn't mean to get your hackles up. We are most likely on the same page here. Just trying to further the discussion. I am acutely aware of the places you have mentioned.
 

RSL

Well-known member
Sorry for the aggressive response :D. I just get touchy as I think AB has it's head pretty far lodged in pursuit of non renewables. I think ranching/farming is actually one of the very few renewable wealth generating activities in the world. Think of all the people we employ downstream.

If people are interested in soil health this is a pretty interesting group.
www.soilfoodweb.com
 

per

Well-known member
RSL said:
Sorry for the aggressive response :D. I just get touchy as I think AB has it's head pretty far lodged in pursuit of non renewables. I think ranching/farming is actually one of the very few renewable wealth generating activities in the world. Think of all the people we employ downstream.

If people are interested in soil health this is a pretty interesting group.
www.soilfoodweb.com

There is a soil food web lab about 40 minutes from here. They do all my water soluble biology tests. A group of us are cooperating with them to do field studies for our area. We all do much of our own lab work on the tailgate in the field.
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
I won't name names, but I had an interesting chat with a gentleman from Alberta Ag last week concerning the Soil Foodweb folks in Vulcan. He said that their "theories don't stand up to science." I retorted, "BUt balancing the soil IS SCIENCE." To which he quickly replied, "No it isn't."

We had a rather invigorating discussion from that point on, and although I won't share all the details, I will say that we ended up agreeing to disagree. He basically called the work of Dr. Albrecht and Dr. Carey Reams unproven theoretical science with "no credibility."

Now per, does that get your hackles up?

That's always going to happen though, where you have resistance to some theories and/or facts. The best way to handle it is push forward with your own tests and trials, as you're doing Per. How else do you really know if it will work on your farm under your conditions?
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
The problem I see all the time in Alberta is that Government can only trust "sound science" if it comes from the mouths of scientists on the payroll of corporate agriculture. A similar situation occurs when I discuss animal health issues/ vaccination programs with my vet (or should I say former vet) - the only scientific knowledge they will pass onto you is the stuff they have been told by the vaccine salesman from Merial etc. This is not true science - it is junk science sold by the pimps of corporate agriculture. :mad:
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
The pimps of corporate agriculture.....well said GF. I can see your red hair all fluffed up and hackles raised from here. :lol:

There's an NFU open house presentation on their Livestock Industry report tonight in Castor. We were hoping to make it and see some friends while we're there, but the way this snow is falling, we may not go. I just got back from brand inspecting some cattle to the west of us, and they already have 8-10", we've got 4-6". It's a welcome sight from a moisture perspective.
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
That's strange PC , the snow seems to be west of the #2 today. We have had none at all but as there is still about 16 inches on the level here we have enough to be going on with.
 

burnt

Well-known member
Whoa - you all sound like a bunch of disillusioned farmers/ranchers ag. guys!! :D :D

And I just so happen to agree with your thoughts on soil health.

About 10 or 12 years ago, I was sitting at a soil fertility meeting of about 12 farmers from our neighbourhood. The supper and drinks were sponsored by - you guessed it - the area fertilizer & crop inputs supplier. The speaker was from a soil test lab and was holding forth on the benefits (higher yields) of applying high rates of phosphorus even in soils that had high P test results.

I asked him why the plant can't utilize the P that is in the soil. He replied that many of our fields have siol that is "just too tight to get it out".

I then asked him if we shouldn't be looking at improving soil condition and tilth then, rather than dumping more phosphorus onto soils that already test high.

He ignored my question and blindly plowed straight ahead trying to sell more fertilizer for the guy who put on the supper meeting.

It was right at that point in time that I underwent a huge change in my outlook about how and why we do what we do in farming. That was my last meeting with the "big boys" and I have never regretted it.

It seems that the whole mainstream of agriculture is driven by commercial interests and maximum production rather than sustainability and profit.
 

per

Well-known member
PC, I'm a contrarian on most mainstream things. The neighbors go out of their way to check what goofy thing is happening here. When it goes bust they corner me and let me know but when it has repeatedly worked to their credit many want to know more. Last year we grew the best crop in the history of this farm. There were 3 different regimes, feed the biology, feed the chemistry and old school NPK. In the field that we did the Chemistry it inadvertently was spit in two by 3 weeks of rain so we missed the last foilier spray. The brix on the straw was high enough that the cows finished the two pass before starting on the single. That field on a whole was the highest yield this farm ever had. #2 yielding field was the biology fed one and still a good crop, but 15 bus less was the mainstream crop. My next door neighbor asked me for the formula of the concoction I used (his words) so he could try it this year.

I don't worry about what Alberta Ag has to say. I am going to do what works for me. The local fert dealer is a friend and we discuss this subject often. He looks at it as an opportunity and keeps asking what he can bring in to help. The guys at Vulcan deserve credit for thinking out of the box and working for a better system.
 
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