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Venezuelan Carora cow photos

Whitewing

Well-known member
These guys are obviously milk producers.....and by Venezuelan standards, pretty prolific ones at that. The breed was developed here back in the 30's by crossing Braunvieh with criollo cattle.

I plan to buy a young Carora bull which I'll cross with some of my Charolais/Criollo F1's.

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hypocritexposer

Well-known member
WW. These cows look like they mightt produce, but when breeding them into your herd, don't forget about udders. The 2 that you have pictured have lost a lot of suspensory ligament.

The floor of their udders look to be a little too close to their their hocks for my liking. (sometimes a BS trait)

But maybe it was just the 2 cows, you chose to take piocs of.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
WW. These cows look like they mightt produce, but when breeding them into your herd, don't forget about udders. The 2 that you have pictured have lost a lot of suspensory ligament.

The floor of their udders look to be a little too close to their their hocks for my liking. (sometimes a BS trait)

But maybe it was just the 2 cows, you chose to take piocs of.

You're right Hypo, it was just the 2 cows I photographed though there were others with similar huge low hanging udders.

Based on what the owner told me, most of these are well-aged milk cows being milked twice a day. And she commented to me that some of them had their udders a bit lower than she wanted as well.

Having said all that, the histories on their milk production were impressive.

I'm not interested in producing milk cattle, but as I mentioned in the original post I am interested improving the genes in the overall herd I manage. A small amount of milk/cheese production down here can be enough to cover all labor expensives at the ranch and my guys seem to enjoy the work.

Anyway, I was considering crossing my Charolais/criollos with a Senepol bull, and still might, but I do believe I'm going to try one of her Carora bulls as well.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
RSL said:
kind of cool. Some dairy type has jammed up a lot of cowherds.

RSL, I'm interested to understand better your comment about dairy types "jamming up cowherds".

As I said, I'm not interested in producing milk per se, but wouldn't mind seeing something of an overall increase in milk production as long as it doesn't come at the expense of my beef production. Don't know if that's possible, but that's where posters here can help me out.

The Carora breed has a long history here, a successful one, so I'm thinking that at least I won't be introducing any genes that are going to take me in the wrong direction as it relates to survivablility under my conditions.
 

the_jersey_lilly_2000

Well-known member
We have a few braunveih in our herd. They do have big bags right at first....but once the calf starts suckin they go down conciderably and then look great thru out the whole time they are nursin that calf. Then when the calves are weaned/sold....their bags go almost totally away. They always raise a sturdy calf too.
 

RSL

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
RSL said:
kind of cool. Some dairy type has jammed up a lot of cowherds.

RSL, I'm interested to understand better your comment about dairy types "jamming up cowherds".

As I said, I'm not interested in producing milk per se, but wouldn't mind seeing something of an overall increase in milk production as long as it doesn't come at the expense of my beef production. Don't know if that's possible, but that's where posters here can help me out.

The Carora breed has a long history here, a successful one, so I'm thinking that at least I won't be introducing any genes that are going to take me in the wrong direction as it relates to survivablility under my conditions.
I know quite a few cowherds that have added things like 1/8 Jersey, or a touch of Guernsey or other dairy breeds. The calves from these females, grow like gangbusters (have added jam) due to the milking power of the cows and the hybrid vigour. Smaller dairy breeds seem to work best up here as it controls the size of the cow and they are still adaptable to being a beef cow.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Ah, okay, now I understand RSL. Your comment was positive re adding genes for better milk production. I had taken it to mean that a net negative effect on meat production overcame any gain re the extra milk production.

Obviously for me, any increase in growth rates of my young steers will be a big plus as I can market them more quickly.

Thanks again for the input.
 

VLS_GUY

Well-known member
Whitewing,

I would seriously consider using breeds that will give adequate milk, udder improvement with out dramatically increasing your nutritional requirements. The last point can not be over stressed. Many of your pictures show pastures that during the dry season that could not support a heavy milking cow. Before increasing milk production make sure you have the grass or feed to support her and her calf. If a beef animal is what is desired I would look at using the Normande breed since it has been used as a peasants cow all around South America. Another couple of breeds worth considering are the Tarentaise (tough, good bags, heat resistance) or the Simbrah ( milk with more beef).
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
VLS_GUY said:
Whitewing,

I would seriously consider using breeds that will give adequate milk, udder improvement with out dramatically increasing your nutritional requirements. The last point can not be over stressed. Many of your pictures show pastures that during the dry season that could not support a heavy milking cow. Before increasing milk production make sure you have the grass or feed to support her and her calf. If a beef animal is what is desired I would look at using the Normande breed since it has been used as a peasants cow all around South America. Another couple of breeds worth considering are the Tarentaise (tough, good bags, heat resistance) or the Simbrah ( milk with more beef).

Thanks VLS_GUY. Good points all and I'll research the breeds you've mentioned.

What I'm doing to date with my breeding program is crossing my Charolais herd bull with criollo cows. I'm also crossing my pure Charolais heifers with a Brahman bull. The F1's of both those crossing programs will be crossed again with a Carora bull. I hope to see better milk production from the addition of the Carora genes but don't think I'll see so much influence that my nutritional needs will change significantly.

And to be fair to my ranch, many of the pics you've seen of my place were taken during two years of severe drought. The "summer" of 2010 was the worst that my neighbor had seen in his 30 years of ranching.

Fortunately, conditions have improved dramatically this year and I'm hoping we'll get back into a normal rainfall cycle. I've now got 5 significant ponds all filled to capacity, over 2 kilometers of 4" irrigation line installed, and a line installed from a small creek to my largest pond which will allow me to move water to my ponds as I need it. While I realize that irrigated pasture is not the same as pasture receiving heavy rainfall, I'll still be able to produce pasture year-round. I was severely limited by lack of pond water from mid 2009 until July of 2010. Never again. :wink:

I'm also now baling and storing hay to help me through the dry season this year. Again, not an ideal situation for cows producing milk though I still consider my herd to be meat producers.

Thanks for the input.
 

Liveoak

Well-known member
I don't know, WW. The Blue Bell Creamery might have an interest in them. Have you considered adding a little more Brahman influence into the herd?
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Liveoak said:
I don't know, WW. The Blue Bell Creamery might have an interest in them. Have you considered adding a little more Brahman influence into the herd?

Indeed I have. A number of my Charolais novillas (heifers) have been bred to a young Brahman bull of mine. I'm anxious to see the results. Lots of folks in Brazil and elsewhere seem pleased with that cross.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Liveoak said:
If you could pull off a Charbray, you might have something there!! Sounds like a worthwhile venture!

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That's an impressive looking animal, to be sure. Like I said, I'm anxious to see the results and will see the first evidence come April of next year.
 

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