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Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in Hi

aplusmnt

Well-known member
nonothing said:
aplusmnt said:
nonothing said:
Why Do you people fight against this so much...

Rivers are polluted,Emissions from cars to industrial stacks are not good to breath in,the ozone layer has been diminished and I could go on for hours about how polluted the earth is now...So I wonder why so many fight Global warming.How about you call it "global pig sty" well you accept that? ..What does it hurt to have people work to clean up this place we call earth? So what if its done because some folks believe in the Climate being affected...No one can be certain why the earth lives out its life the way it does,so why not at least help it stay healthy,no matter what your reason for doing so?......I do not understand why so many here care if it affects the weather or not..pollution kill regardless of the weather........

I just don't see the sky falling as you do! I look out side now and see a beautiful blue sky. I have been to most all states in the U.S. and all I remember on my drives is a beautiful America. The only filth and dirt I have seen has been in some specific ares in a few Cities such as NYC, St Louis, KC and in Mexico.

99.9999% of the time the sky is blue the birds are singing and the air is clean. The sky is not falling there is plenty of fresh air and clean America, just get out of the slums and you will find it.

There is nothing wrong with cleaning up the planet, I strongly support that crying Indian from the past. He started a strong voluntary program that got people aware of pollution and littering. But this Carbon Credit crap and doomsday attitude if the Government does not step in is for idiots!


Aplus drinking water world wide is become undrinkable...Its has gone so far as that in some places they are drinking used water thats been retreated......I could care less about what you call the problem,I am just interested in fixing or at least correcting it....there are garbage dumps all over America....there are rivers you cannot drink out of..fish are non exsistent in some polluted coastal waters...San fran has a spill in its Bay as i type this post....The sky may be blue but i know for sure I get sunburned quicker today then i did 15 years ago......Now I have no idea why but maybe just maybe the ozone layer has been made weaker....either way one must clean up a little....

I am all for a cleaner planet. I have no problems with cleaning up our water ways. I have no problem with strict littering laws. I think we should keep the planet clean. But polluting rivers, lakes and Oceans and global warming are a long way from each other.

There is a big difference in not wanting someone to dump toxic waste into our drinking system and claiming the world is going to come to and end if we do not start riding bikes to work.

Clean water and and a litter free world are admirable and what all people should strive to do. But Global warming is a scare tactic to exploit fear, money and power.

As for sunburning much easier now, when a person gets older they are more susceptible to the sun. I am fair skinned as are my kids. My kids do not burn anymore now than I did at their ages.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Cowpuncher said:
Gasoline and diesel prices are impacted by myriads of factors. For example, different crude oils have different makeup of gasoline and diesel.
(Some years ago, Chevron started to burn crude oil from its Rangely Field directly into diesel engines. It was exceptionally good oil.)

It is not cheap to get sulfur out of oil or gas. Chevron and Amoco (rest their soul) built plants in Wyoming costing over $600 million each to remove sulfur from gas produced from the Overthrust belt.

All refineries cannot use every crude oil. It would be stupid to build a refinery for light crude if only Venezualan crude or Saudi Heavy is available for refining.

Also making the gasoline/diesel question more complex is that diesel and heating oil are almost identical. A cold winter or threat of a cold winter will cause both heating oil and diesel to sell for more. Basically, oil companies are businesses - they try to sell their product to maximize profit. Surely, you don't sell your calves cheap to keep meat prices down in the supermarket.

Also, for the most part, there is no precise way of determining process cost in refineries where a plant produces both gasoils (diesel) and gasolines.

I am not going to go into a whole lot of detail, but I spent 27 years in the oil business - all the way from exploration to production to refining to marketing and pipeline. If you think the refining business is good, tell us why no one has built a new refinery in the Unites State for over 30 years.

A whole lot of our gasoline and diesel are now produced overseas as a result of our refinery situation and the price on these products is basically the world market price - probably Rotterdam based.

A lot of that is in the report cited, Cowpuncher.

Do you mean those Rothschilds are STILL in control of our prices?

They run in a select circle along with the rest.
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Tex said:
The difference can be explained away by not enough competition in the market place and concentration in the industry.

Tex, Thanks for the explanation. My views on it are likely skewed from having talked to many in the industry and listening to all the problems they are having producing fuel that meets the new standards.

But, if those with expertise and experience cannot produce it, a maw and paw start up operation cannot compete either.

Rules and regulations, strong arm labor, and politics are what seem to be pushing industry outside of this country now. It is a bad cycle.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could take crude, refine it, sell it for profit at reduced cost? That would be a win/win situation for consumers and producers.
 

Tex

Well-known member
I would say trade policy is what is helping run jobs out of this country.

During the fiercely competitive period mentioned above, consolidation in the industry occurred. After sufficient consolidation comes market power. That allows players to increase profits---they don't have anyone (competition) to stop them. If they have erected sufficient barriers to entry, they will continue to make those excess profits.

With vertical integration, that is the oil companies basically owning the oil and the processing and the delivery, the profits can be allocated to whichever division they want-- they are in the same company. It is hard to tell where the profits are earned.

My question starting all this was, why is diesel so much higher than gas?

One of the things about the new sulfur levels (which I have shown really can't count for the whole increase), is that companies have a time to comply. This allows different levels of sulfur diesel to go out on the market over time. One of the games being played by the oil companies is that they say the costs of mixing, and storing, and delivering are higher with the different amounts of sulfur allowed and that is why they charge more. The upper limit of those charges, however, (this has been an argument between the DOE and the EPA) is what it actually costs to get the lowest level of sulfur diesel. Obviously that amount has been exceeded.

If confronted by talking points and you do a little research, find out that they are false, you must look into who made up the talking points, for what reason and then assess credibility (or lack thereof). If you just wait for another talking point to come up to justify the same conclusion and then hand your hat on it, you will continually be played out.

Faster horses, this isn't about you. You didn't make up the talking point, you just repeated it. Sometimes you have to talk about the talking point to see a different view--something I am always willing to do in order to change my opinion or assess some one else's credibility.

In this case, I still want to know why that little---wait a second---a lot of jingle is being taken out of my pocket. In this case it isn't the higher cost of producing diesel.
 

don

Well-known member
pretty much sums it up. in canada our fuel prices aren't much higher than when oil was $65. our dollar has strengthened which has buffered the $90 oil but the fact that gas prices have been stable can't completely be explained by the dollar so i have to conclude they are charging what the market will bear. this is fine but spare us expecting to believe that fuel price will track oil prices. they'll get us for as much as they can. a lot of the talking points whether it's oil, packers or banks or anybody else are just static.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Why are diesel fuel prices higher than gasoline prices?

Until several years ago, the average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than the average price of gasoline. In some winters when the demand for distillate heating oil was high, the price of diesel fuel rose above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the U.S., putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the U.S., the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

I did not realize that there was a 6 cents higher tax per gallon on Diesel, I wonder how the government rationalizes that?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Why are diesel fuel prices higher than gasoline prices?

Until several years ago, the average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than the average price of gasoline. In some winters when the demand for distillate heating oil was high, the price of diesel fuel rose above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the U.S., putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the U.S., the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

I did not realize that there was a 6 cents higher tax per gallon on Diesel, I wonder how the government rationalizes that?



Do you just realize what a FOOLISH thing you just stated??????

You must be having an ' off' day today.

They do it because they can!
 

Tex

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Why are diesel fuel prices higher than gasoline prices?

Until several years ago, the average price of diesel fuel was usually lower than the average price of gasoline. In some winters when the demand for distillate heating oil was high, the price of diesel fuel rose above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons. Worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils has been increasing steadily, with strong demand in China, Europe, and the U.S., putting more pressure on the tight global refining capacity. In the U.S., the transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel has affected diesel fuel production and distribution costs. Also, the Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents higher per gallon (24.4 cents per gallon) than the tax on gasoline

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

I did not realize that there was a 6 cents higher tax per gallon on Diesel, I wonder how the government rationalizes that?

Aplus, all of those factors don't matter unless they changed from before 2004 and were the change wasn't also a factor for gas.

The diesel fuel production is less that 4.5 cents more with 7ppm diesel, which includes profit, and the distributing can't be over the 4.5 cents if that is what it takes to convert everything to low sulfur. The mixing, and other transition costs are just a gimmick because you don't need mixing tanks, other pumps, etc. You could just produce the low sulfur on everything and not have to mix anything. The 4.5 cents is a cap.

I think you are back to talking points that can be proven not to be anything but excuses.

The real reason is industry consolidation (all the little refiners going out) and not enough competition for refiners.

It is the cost of industry concentration.

Most industry concentration comes when profits are low and everything is very competitive. The little guys get run out of the business and the big guys buy the competition, or parts they want, and then rule the roost.

Are you saying that the 6 cent tax was instituted after 2004, and if so, can you cite the source?

So far this season, we haven't had the cold snaps to make the momentary demand spikes the other part of the article refers to, which are a normal part of any year's prices.

Again, what has changed other than concentration in the industry and higher refinery profits?
 

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