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What do we do about this?

A

Anonymous

Guest
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
don said:
x: I get tired of hearing liberal assholes like you running them down.

rotflmao. yeah i'm real liberal.

This new neo conservative thinking that the corporate world can do no wrong-

I think you got this twisted around. Conservatives can look at the good and bad in things. Liberals believe that all the corporate world can do is wrong.

A conservative would realize that there is bad corporations. And then also realize that a strong aggressive corporation is good for the economy, have you ever known a Big Corporation that has no employees? People get jobs because corporations stimulate the economy and create a place for them to work.

Plus if you added up the charity that is given from big corporations and the elite that own and run them. The good they do with their money far out ways any good middle to lower income people ever accomplish. \

Liberals just can not handle the fact that some people work hard dedicate their lives to building a business. They want the money redistributed amongst the lazy and unmotivated.

Even the bible says you do not work you do not eat!

Looks like Mr. Lesar can probably eat pretty well :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
This new neo conservative thinking that the corporate world can do no wrong-

I think you got this twisted around. Conservatives can look at the good and bad in things. Liberals believe that all the corporate world can do is wrong.

A conservative would realize that there is bad corporations. And then also realize that a strong aggressive corporation is good for the economy, have you ever known a Big Corporation that has no employees? People get jobs because corporations stimulate the economy and create a place for them to work.

Plus if you added up the charity that is given from big corporations and the elite that own and run them. The good they do with their money far out ways any good middle to lower income people ever accomplish. \

Liberals just can not handle the fact that some people work hard dedicate their lives to building a business. They want the money redistributed amongst the lazy and unmotivated.

Even the bible says you do not work you do not eat!

Looks like Mr. Lesar can probably eat pretty well :wink:

And he probably deserves every bite! Thank God he started a company that would later employee so many people around the world, so they to can eat.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
I think you got this twisted around. Conservatives can look at the good and bad in things. Liberals believe that all the corporate world can do is wrong.

A conservative would realize that there is bad corporations. And then also realize that a strong aggressive corporation is good for the economy, have you ever known a Big Corporation that has no employees? People get jobs because corporations stimulate the economy and create a place for them to work.

Plus if you added up the charity that is given from big corporations and the elite that own and run them. The good they do with their money far out ways any good middle to lower income people ever accomplish. \

Liberals just can not handle the fact that some people work hard dedicate their lives to building a business. They want the money redistributed amongst the lazy and unmotivated.

Even the bible says you do not work you do not eat!

Looks like Mr. Lesar can probably eat pretty well :wink:

And he probably deserves every bite! Thank God he started a company that would later employee so many people around the world, so they to can eat.

Well I'll bet that janitor that cleans the executive washroom will tell you his sh*t smells the same as everyone elses...

I can't believe all these neocon wealth worshippers....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
Looks like Mr. Lesar can probably eat pretty well :wink:

And he probably deserves every bite! Thank God he started a company that would later employee so many people around the world, so they to can eat.

Well I'll bet that janitor that cleans the executive washroom will tell you his sh*t smells the same as everyone elses...

I can't believe all these neocon wealth worshippers....

I doubt it Shrimp and Caviar crap smells different than Bologna :wink:

You did not direct an answer to my Thanking God he started that business that employs so many people around the world. I even believe they are pretty well paid employees compared to other companies.

Are you not thankful for such guys that through their vision and hard work help to employee so many people????
 

Econ101

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
And he probably deserves every bite! Thank God he started a company that would later employee so many people around the world, so they to can eat.

Well I'll bet that janitor that cleans the executive washroom will tell you his sh*t smells the same as everyone elses...

I can't believe all these neocon wealth worshippers....

I doubt it Shrimp and Caviar crap smells different than Bologna :wink:

You did not direct an answer to my Thanking God he started that business that employs so many people around the world. I even believe they are pretty well paid employees compared to other companies.

Are you not thankful for such guys that through their vision and hard work help to employee so many people????

Aplus, you either have a job as a janitor or you have too much time on your hands going around and smelling your own and rich people's poop.

Since you are so into quoting the Bible, what does it say about the rich man?

I think OT pegged you right, you wealth worshipping neocon. (sorry if you are offended)
 

Econ101

Well-known member
I looked it up for you:

Judaism

The Babylonian Talmud applies the aphorism to unthinkable thoughts. To explain that dreams reveal the thoughts of a man's heart, the product of reason rather than the absence of it, the rabbis say:

They do not show a man a palm tree of gold, nor an elephant going through the eye of a needle. 1

A Midrash on the Song of Songs uses the phrase to speak of God's willingness and ability beyond comparison, to accomplish the salvation of a sinner:

The Holy One said, open for me a door as big as a needle's eye and I will open for you a door through which may enter tents and [camels?]2

[edit] Christianity

"The eye of a needle" is part of a phrase attributed to Jesus by the synoptic gospels:

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24.

The parallel versions appear in Matthew 19:23-24, Mark 10:24-25 and Luke 18:24-25.

The occasion of the saying, according to the gospel writers, was after a rich young man had asked Jesus what he needed to do in order to inherit eternal life. Jesus replied that he should first, keep the commandments (he listed only the six concerning duty to men, see also Old Testament#Christian view of the Law), sell all his possessions, and give the money to the poor, and then to come, follow Jesus. Because of his great wealth, the young man was unwilling to do this. Jesus then turned to his disciples, and spoke this phrase to their astonishment, leading them to doubt that salvation was possible for anyone.

Some commentators have found it incredible to speak of a rich man's chance of being saved as being harder than threading a camel through a literal sewing implement. Consequently the phrase has inspired various interpretations.

[edit] General Interpretation

The most common Christian interpretation is that Jesus uses the physical impossibility of a camel passing through a needle (compare the similar Talmudic expression involving an elephant) to hyperbolically express the difficulty of entering heaven. A rich man would not ordinarily be able to enter the kingdom of heaven (and the disciples interpreted this to mean that no one can be saved, since wealth was considered a sign of God's favor); but God can achieve what would be impossible without his help. Jesus spoke in response to the rich man's unwillingness to give up his worldly possessions; through the grace of God, he might be able to give up his attachment to them. Christians also typically use the account of the rich young ruler, including this phrase, to teach about the deceitfulness of wealth and worldly prestige, and the duty of alms.

Some scholars have suggested that the word camel (κάμηλον) is in fact a mistranslation of the Greek original, and should instead read rope (κάμιλον). On the weight of this, some English versions read "cable" instead of "camel".3 This explanation is also based on the notion of physical impossibility: neither a camel nor a rope can pass through the eye of a needle.

[edit] Alternative Interpretation

Another common explanation of the figure, first recorded by Theophylact of Bulgaria in the eleventh century, was that Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle's Eye, that was built so low that a camel could only pass if it entered kneeling and unencumbered with baggage. The lesson would then be that an eternal inheritance awaits those who unburden themselves of sin, and in particular, the things of this world. Although there is no historical evidence that such a gate ever existed, through frequent repetition the idea has attained the status of virtual dogma in some circles.

[edit] Islam

The Quran uses this phrase to express the idea of something that is unlikely to happen:

To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin. Al-Araf (The Heights) 7:40

[edit] Footnotes

* Note 1: B.T. Berakhot 55a
* Note 2: Hebrew New Testament Studies
* Note 3: Midrash Rabbah, The Song of Songs, 5.3; cf. Pesiqta R., 15, as cited in the online essay '
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
Well I'll bet that janitor that cleans the executive washroom will tell you his sh*t smells the same as everyone elses...

I can't believe all these neocon wealth worshippers....

I doubt it Shrimp and Caviar crap smells different than Bologna :wink:

You did not direct an answer to my Thanking God he started that business that employs so many people around the world. I even believe they are pretty well paid employees compared to other companies.

Are you not thankful for such guys that through their vision and hard work help to employee so many people????

Aplus, you either have a job as a janitor or you have too much time on your hands going around and smelling your own and rich people's poop.

Since you are so into quoting the Bible, what does it say about the rich man?

I think OT pegged you right, you wealth worshipping neocon. (sorry if you are offended)

I have cleaned a many toilets, not any rich peoples that I know of though.

And you are correct there is lots of issues and biblical reference to a Rich person or a person that has a love of money or pleasures. So I guess if a rich person can not inherit Gods Kingdom and a lazy person can not either, we better hope we are somewhere in between then.

But I will ask you the same as OT are you not glad that people like Mr. Lesar started such successful bussinesses so thousands could be employed?

What about Bill Gates he starts out basically by himself with little budget and now he employs thousands of people. People like yourself have great paying jobs because of him.

Bill Gates and Mr Lesar will add more to the economy, peoples income and helping to keep the wheels turning in our society than a Thousand econ101's ever will. But to you they do not pay their fair! :roll:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Aplus, I have always paid my share. I worked and put myself through college (no help from parents) paid for all my own vehicles, owned several successful business and even employed a few people. I have never cheated in those businesses to fulfill my self interest---maybe that is why they were successful.

I have never been on the government payroll except maybe when in college working part time on a research project for professors.

You make a lot of assumptions, Aplus, I just wish you would have a higher batting average on their truthfulness.

I don't know Mr. Lesar or how he operates his businesses. I do know that because he has money he has opportunities not afforded to the average joe.

As far as Bill Gates, the question is a good one. It is true he has done a lot for the computing industry---but he has also charged a pretty penny for it and engaged in some anticompetitive actions to maintain and keep his dominance. In the computing business, the dominance has allowed operating systems to be more uniform and thus create more efficiencies in the industry. I don't think Bill Gates has gotten away with all of the anti trust activities he has engaged in and he has had lawsuits in Europe to that effect.

I have hated the way some of the programs were unstable and after paying good money for them, having to scrap them for the next system that promised more and often did not deliver. With no real recourse, you just had to buy the next upgrade to get the functionality required. That process has made Bill Gates super rich and has made me and millions like me more poor. Again, we had little protections that were economically viable.

I am appreciative of how he has decided you can have enough money for a lifetime and try to do things in the world that the world has failed to do.

I often wonder if the tradeoff was worth it. It just might be.

We'll see.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
a-plus-- I don't know if anyone is worth that much...If people truly were paid on the the importance of the job- then the leader of the strongest country in the world should be the highest paid person in the country- wouldn't you think...

What I do know is that the gap between the top and administrative wages compared to the ditch digger and toilet scrubber wage has been growing at alarmingly high rates....This has been creating a faster growing elite and a faster growing just above poverty class with an ever shrinking middle class...Allowing a huge gap between the haves and have nots has been the downfall of several empires in the past.....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
a-plus-- I don't know if anyone is worth that much...If people truly were paid on the the importance of the job- then the leader of the strongest country in the world should be the highest paid person in the country- wouldn't you think...

What I do know is that the gap between the top and administrative wages compared to the ditch digger and toilet scrubber wage has been growing at alarmingly high rates....This has been creating a faster growing elite and a faster growing just above poverty class with an ever shrinking middle class...Allowing a huge gap between the haves and have nots has been the downfall of several empires in the past.....

You look at it from the wrong perspective of what a person is worth. Sure you could say someone like Lesar or Bill Gates are not worth that much money for the actual physical work the do on a day to day basis. Sure they sit around in office 10 hours a day telling people what to do, hey I would do that for a lot less money.

But if you look at it from the stand point of what they accomplish for society at large, the jobs they create or the stimulation of the economy who really can say how much they are worth. Look at like this how bad would the economy be hit if both those business folded tomorrow. How many thousands of people would loose their jobs? How man millions or billions of revenue would be lost. How many kids would have a terrible Christmas if tomorrow all the parents got the pink slip.

Maybe someone with such big contribution to the work force and economy would be deserving of as much as the business could afford to pay them. Entrepreneurs should never have a cap on their earning potential, it would stifle creativity and risk that in the end would hurt middle class more than the elite rich person.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I wonder when "enough is enough? Ted Turner says the $2 Billion he has is not enough for him to retire on :roll:
 

Texan

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
As someone who works for a big business (mid sized really but big to y'all), I think you're focusing on the wrong points here.

Being entrepreneurial is good. Building something of value to the country, employees, and customers is good.

Lobbying the Congress is allowed today and businesses who don't do it put themselves at a serious disadvantage if the other businesses in their market are doing so.

What should be up for debate is the rules and regulations of our country and the extent to which they allow monopolies, usury, or practices that are bad for the country and its citizens.

Examples are the undue influence of big business on legislation, the ability of the pharmaceuticals to market their drugs (spending tens of millions of dollars on ads and free giveaways to doctors), unfair competition because of "influence" (worse in other countries by the way). I'm sure Econ and others can come up with a long list.

Business is not bad and also we should not look to business to regulate how it competes or goes to market. Businesses and directors answer to stockholders There should be laws and regulations to ensure that businesses don't cross the line and become bad citizens with a deleterious effect on the country.

As far as things like providing tax breaks to businesses to attract them -- whether that's good or bad depends upon the economics. If they end up providing jobs and tax revenue that boosts an area then the local politicians chose well. If they make out like bandits without contributing to make up for their tax breaks then the local politicians did poorly. I'll contrast Maryland and Virginia. The latter attracted the high tech industry and has flourished. The former did not and has not.

Being a government employee, working indirectly for the government, or even receiving subsidy from the government for some temporary period of time are not BAD things. We pay taxes so that the government makes life better for us citizens and I can attest that life in the U.S. in most ways is better than in any other country I have visited. And it is very much because of our form of government and our laws and how we encourage entrepreneurialism and fair competition.
Pretty good post for a woman. :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I wonder when "enough is enough? Ted Turner says the $2 Billion he has is not enough for him to retire on :roll:

2 billion is not that much if you want to take over the U.N. and depopulate the world :lol:

Who knows what the property taxes on the couple million acres he owns cost a year plus insurance. Might need a few billion just to keep your head above water.
 

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