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What do you think?

Nicky

Well-known member
We raise most of our own bulls via AI. Do you guys think that is a good or bad thing? What I'm wondering about is, do you actually get enough 'new' blood when the cow is from your herd? The reason we raise our own bulls is mainly that when we buy bulls it takes a couple years for them to adjust and end up looking as good as our own bulls.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Your on the right track-new blood isn't necessary better blood. You do enough A'I'ing to keep things current. At least a home raised bull comes from a cow that you know works in your management enviroment. Some very successful outfits don't use many outside bulls.
 

Liveoak

Well-known member
Nicky said:
We raise most of our own bulls via AI. Do you guys think that is a good or bad thing? What I'm wondering about is, do you actually get enough 'new' blood when the cow is from your herd? The reason we raise our own bulls is mainly that when we buy bulls it takes a couple years for them to adjust and end up looking as good as our own bulls.

It seems to me that the answer depends on your own expectations and goals. With AI you get a choice of genetics but your having to raise the bull from birth up through the time he can work. Does waiting place you in any kind of bind? Lost productivity? If not, then I would go with it! What baffles me is why can't a bull be purchased that already looks good and is ready to work? Is it due to lack of availablity in your area or the budget maybe? What are the cost of raising one from scratch (by AI or buying one from outside that needs work) versus buy one that is ready to go and needs no conditioning?

If I were in the bull selling business and of a specific breed, I would opt for the AI method but keep a good eye out for others I could purchase that have good potential.
 

cowsense

Well-known member
Nicky; We've used the same program as you for years; we use AI for out cross bloodlines & to bring in desired traits........however looking back the most progress made was with sons of an AI bull out of our best cow families. We have used up to four natural sons out of one cow and at one point had the majority of our young cattle showing that cow at least once and usually more often in their pedigree.
Breeding for soundness, fertility & good production traits is much easier when you know the multi-generation production records of the cow family under your own environmental conditions.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Hoping to do the same thing ourselves. If you have an "ideal cow" that fits your management style, range and climate conditions, ect. what would be wrong with breeding more cattle with those same traits?
 

Nicky

Well-known member
That's pretty much why we've been doing it.

Liveoak, its more the condition of the bull that set them back...too fat...hard to find ones ready to go to work...and the way we raise them it doesn't cost that much:)
 

Justin

Well-known member
Nicky said:
That's pretty much why we've been doing it.

Liveoak, its more the condition of the bull that set them back...too fat...hard to find ones ready to go to work...and the way we raise them it doesn't cost that much:)

its funny....i would say that most feel the same way, yet you go and watch alot of these sales and the fatter and prettier they are the more money they bring :?
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
That's the paradox-if your gonna buy a children of the corn bull the ones that aren't the fattest are even more sorry-they can't stay fat on too much feed-have a liver like dean martoin's.
 

Justin

Well-known member
roger dodger said:
Yup nobody wants a fat bred heifer or a fat bull but what brings the most money.

thats the other thing that bugs me..everybody wants big heifers, but nobody wants big cows :? :???:
(sorry, getting of the topic at hand a bit)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Northern Rancher said:
Your on the right track-new blood isn't necessary better blood. You do enough A'I'ing to keep things current. At least a home raised bull comes from a cow that you know works in your management enviroment. Some very successful outfits don't use many outside bulls.

AMEN-- and it always raises a question in my mind when some of these top seedstock folks- don't use any of their home raised bulls- or cows...Always makes me wonder why they had to go out looking for something better (which seems to have came about with the last 20-30 years of having to produce "bigger, better, fasters).....

I've said it before- and still believe the best bulls ever raised will never see their pictures in the Angus Journal- or some semen pimps catalog- and that there are some hidden "diamonds in the rough" being raised by some of the smaller/more unknown breeders...And especially in "range raised" cattle- that aren't being judged by the numbers that come from pouring unlimited feed to the mommas and creep feeding the calves from 2 months old....
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
They don't bring any money from me lol. I get so pissed off when guys wreck bulls with grain and use the excuse-EVERYBODY Does It. Do what you know is right and you'll get rewarded. Purebred breeders trading fat pigs amongst themselves is about as far from the real cattle business as it gets.
 

PureCountry

Well-known member
We've found the same thing here Nicky. We've built a nice herd of Galloways that work well in our environment, and do as good as our commercial cows. In doing so, we've found time and time again that the bulls we raise work better here than the ones we buy. It's plain common sense though when you think about it - we run our cows rough, they work hard. I have only found 2 outfits in Alberta that run them as we do, and their genetics have worked for us fairly well. They do however come from a vastly different area - black #1 or #2 soils compared to our Battle River Blowsand.

We're keeping our eyes open for Galloway breeders who do things similar to us, and if their genetics appeal to us we may give them a try. Thus far, of all the bulls we've bought in over the last 6 years, only 1 - YES 1 - grain-fed bull has held up, and he is our main herdsire on our website - Navigator. He is the exception, and an exceptional individual. I believe he'll still be breeding here when he's 10 or older.

That's my two-bits worth. Raise your own. I don't see the need for outside genetics either, but then again, I linebreed my cows. :wink:
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
Nicky said:
We raise most of our own bulls via AI. Do you guys think that is a good or bad thing? What I'm wondering about is, do you actually get enough 'new' blood when the cow is from your herd? The reason we raise our own bulls is mainly that when we buy bulls it takes a couple years for them to adjust and end up looking as good as our own bulls.

Nicky, from my perspective it depends what value you put on "new blood" from a breeding viewpoint and from a marketing perspective. Is the new blood better, worse or is it just different?
I think raising your own bulls via AI is better than buying in bulls but I think breeding bulls using the herd sires already in your herd would be better still. Like PureCountry I believe in linebreeding but even if you don't go to that extent your herd is likely to be more consistent and better adapted to your place if you use no outside blood.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
We have bought bulls for years from a great bull breeder in Beaver, Utah. They raise them on grass and hay with zero creep or grain. They are plenty fleshy but without all the FAT of other outfits. A neighbor bought two bulls there last year and paid $3000 a piece. He then bought some more for $1600 to $2000 at a different sale. Fat as seals thanks to a bull test. This past fall the Yardley bulls looked just as good as when he turned them out. The "test" bulls are still ganted up. Wonder which bulls bred more cows? Guess where my neighbor will be buying bulls this spring. Me too!
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
Interesting comments here.

Aaron posted a very young and pretty decent forage raised home grown bull on CT and got raked for having a starving animal.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62087&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

So despite the talk of wanting an animal that can do it all with no tender loving care - the fats will always get the nod from the bidder.

Just the way it is.

BC
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Broke Cowboy said:
Interesting comments here.

Aaron posted a very young and pretty decent forage raised home grown bull on CT and got raked for having a starving animal.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62087&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

So despite the talk of wanting an animal that can do it all with no tender loving care - the fats will always get the nod from the bidder.

Just the way it is.

BC

The condition of the bull is fine, but the lack of pigment and the 110 pound birthweight would bother me. I would sooner use a bull of a continental breed with a 110 birthweight than I would one from a British breed. There would be less potential for calving difficulties. From another aspect, any heifer calf out of a large birthweight continental bull I would consider a terminal cross and sell as a feeder. A heifer from a British bull could likely end up as a replacement, and the the 110 pound birthweight would be bred right back into the herd where it could, and would, come back to haunt you.

My main bull source raises Angus cattle in the same ranch country under the same conditions that our own are raised. The bull calves are mostly April born. They are turned with our cows the 20th of May, when they are just 13 months old, weighing about a thousand pounds. They get right out and go to work, and gain weight while they are doing it.
 
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